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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Nov 29 2013 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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This year has just not been "smooth". We either feel rushed, scattered, too many subjects in a day, too much of this, not enough of this . . . . I could just go on.
Overall our school year is going well. We are liking everything we are using, I'm organized, and I like our schedule. Yet our days are not smooth. I'm really struggling to put into words how I feel. So, below is my list of stuff that is going through my mind today as I'm pondering this issue. 
At times I feel like the old saying "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off". Honestly, I struggle with staying on task and then I start to rush to hurry up and get done otherwise I will not finish and move onto something else. I catch myself rushing the boys in their school work because I'm thinking about the next thing on the list. The weird thing is that I'm normally well organized and keep list so this behavior has no reason. 
Working with my oldest to be more independent needs some work.
I think I struggle with deciding what the boys can do alone and what needs to be done with me.
I feel like the boys educational needs are not being meet. It is a constant struggle for me not to feel like they would be getting a better education at the public school . . . . I certainly don't think they would get better socialization so this is why I continue on this homeschool journey.
I have some things I want to work on more and add some new things into our school day come January and I don't know how to go about it since our days seem full already. I don't think they are full but they aren't smooth so they just feel full.
Overall our life is easy, little stress, and we are NOT over schedule. So why do my days feel all wrong? 
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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SallyT
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| Posted: Nov 29 2013 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
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Some (possibly) clarifying questions:
*When you say you worry that educational needs aren't being met, what does that mean? I mean, not the worry part -- I know all about that! But in what ways, specifically, does it seem to you that educational needs aren't being met?
*What does your day-to-day schedule look like right now?
*What things do you feel tempted to rush through? What things are you anxious to hurry up and get to?
*What might help you to feel okay with slowing down in a particular subject, so that you aren't rushing?
*What do you want to add in for the second semester, and how do you foresee its helping you to meet your objectives with the boys?
*What are those objectives?
Just spinning some questions off the top of my head to try to get some conversation started -- they're the kind of questions I tend to ask myself when things feel out of kilter.
Also, I just saw this on the Brave Writer blog today -- maybe it's germaine here?
Sally
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Nov 30 2013 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
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Here is the schedule we were using up until now. We have a different schedule for Advent that will be shorten a little to leave afternoon for crafts and other personal interest. I would go back to this schedule in January if it worked.
9am-start school-morning basket: do three of the following-read aloud, geography, poetry memorization, character readings
9:45-math hour-I tend to work 30 minutes with each boy and they do Life of Fred and Times Attack while waiting on me if they don't have a worksheet they can do alone. This is rushed and it's tough working with both boys. I can sometimes spend almost the whole time with my oldest.
10:45-Language Arts hour+-spelling and grammar with me and they work alone on literature, copywork, writing. This time is very rushed and we usually don't get it all done. We don't do all those subjects every day either. We are really lacking time for writing. I want them doing writing every day and there isn't time.
12-1: lunch break
1 pm: history or science
2 pm: religion and/or Latin-right now we are not doing any Latin and I want to add this in. I'm usually ready to be done at this time and therefore it is a struggle to get everything done that I want.
I know I need to work harder at getting through until 3. I think a big problem is that I work constantly with one or both the whole school time. I struggle with staying focused. And I don't like going back and forth with them. Perhaps working with one in the morning and the other in the afternoon and doing together stuff first thing would help?
My goal is to spend more time on writing with both boys come January. I want us back at doing Latin in February/March (this is a budget issue and I need to buy something). I have another post about our Latin struggles and it just comes down to spending more time on it. I was also teaching Winston Grammar to both together and this will no longer work as we have finally hit a spot where my youngest needs to spend more time on a lesson than the oldest. I will have to find time to teach this separate come January too.
My brain isn't fully functioning today, so I'll respond more later.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Nov 30 2013 at 7:53pm | IP Logged
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Wow! I spent some time searching old threads and found lots of inspiration.
Weekly Meetings provided lots of help.
How do you know enough is enough? was helpful too.
This one was what I read first that sent me to the above post.
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Cassie
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Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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SallyT
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| Posted: Dec 02 2013 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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Some random thoughts -- and please take them for what they're worth, just as thoughts rather than advice!
*What about scheduling by child instead of by subject?
What I mean is, rather than grouping them for subjects (even if they're doing them independently), just give each child a list, in order, of what *he* is supposed to do daily. You can calibrate it so that one child is doing reading-intensive work (history, literature, etc), while the other is doing table work -- this way you're free to help the table-work child while the other one is occupied on his own. I find that this really helps me to move more peacefully through our school day. It also means that I'm not constantly trying to hurry one child up because the other one is finished with whatever activity, or ply a faster child with busy work to occupy him while the other one is catching up.
My own two youngest ones, who are the ones I work with directly on a daily basis, don't even always get up at the same time, so that I have one early bird who gets her work done before ten a.m., and another who tends to roll out a little later and work with me between ten and lunchtime. Then we do basket at lunch. My early riser also works much faster, so I've had to schedule to avoid the maddening situation of having to waaaaaiiiiiiitttttt for her brooooooootttttthhhhhhherrrrrr to fiiiiiiiiiniiiiiiiiissssssshhhhhh wrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiitttttttiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg. I have to admit, we're pretty loose, and our schedule "floats" a lot -- by this time they both know the drill (i.e., if it's Tuesday, they know what the Tuesday books are, plus math, copywork, and German), and it kind of doesn't matter what time of day we get started. Times change, but the routine doesn't. Still, it really helps that they're not tied to each other, and can just get on with work at their individual paces. It sounds less smooth than it is, I promise!
*Simplify before you add anything new.
For instance, if you want to do Latin, consider cutting some of your Language Arts work, notably spelling and grammar. Copywork, which you're doing, *will* take care of both of those areas, and then that's one less thing you have to teach. You just give them their copywork and fold laundry while they do it. Latin too *will* teach grammar (and a good bit of spelling, since so much of our language comes from Latin roots). I know you have and like Winston, but if your 9-year-old is stuck, I'd just drop it with him and let your older one continue at his own pace. Again, though, if push came to shove, and you only had so much time, I wouldn't hesitate to boot the formal grammar in favor of other things. (and I say this having done a formal-grammar year with my two last year and seen NO evidence of actual learning as a result . . . we do state-mandated yearly testing, and after a year of formal grammar, did we know where the comma was supposed to go in the sample sentence on the test? No, we did not have the first clue . . . Copywork and dictation, on the other hand, are making a noticeable difference in their writing, at any rate).
In our own schedule, we do four days of copywork, M-F, then on Friday we do studied dictation but no other writing. That's our spelling and grammar quiz. I do not assign any other writing. They do frequently write on their own (I encourage emailing with a select set of friends and family, for example), but I do not make independent writing a part of our formal school day, at least not until middle school. Even then, I don't think I'd stress about making a 7th grader write daily in an assigned, formal way. My 10th grader turns in a handful of informal written narrations weekly, with periodic formal composition assignments, if that puts things in perspective at all. I definitely don't see writing from him daily.
We do do Life of Fred together right now, but then my two are only a year apart, and they are in very much the same place in math. Typically right now we're doing it as part of our basket, usually at lunch, though sometimes we start the day with it. I find it's really effective to get to math early, while people are fresh, but that doesn't always happen at our house.
How we do Fred varies -- as the books have gotten harder, I will often read a chapter one day, then do the "Your Turn to Play" the next. We also have some test-prep workbooks, one for each child's actual grade level, and I will assign maybe three problems from random pages as "warmup" for math. So a given child might do one long multiplication, one long division, and one number-sequence or other kind of question independently (and I use that term loosely!) during his/her own tablework time daily. I am subscribing to the "one problem done well" mentality here . . . :) Then we do Fred together.
They do each have independent religion reading, modeled more or less on MA for Level 2, but I also do a saint reading or catechism as part of our basket time (either in the morning or at lunch -- as I say, it tends to float!).
Encouraging children to work independently takes some effort and training, I find, and some take to it more readily than others. It has really helped me this year to make up a grid-type schedule (though I've tweaked it a good bit since August!) and to *give each child a copy of that schedule,* so that I've communicated to them that it's *their* schedule, not mine.
Right now each one has it as a .pdf on his/her Kindle, and over time I have trained them to *look* at what they're supposed to be doing each day, rather than asking me what's next. It's a very simple schedule, basically just our reading mapped out over the week, and mostly all they have to do is read the next chapter in whatever book it is. We do German using the Duolingo program (free, and they have a Kindle app, so we are rejoicing!), so even that is self-paced. I do still have to nudge, and I frequently have to stand over my 11-year-old to remind him to come back from Neptune and put his pencil to the paper, but even that is . . . getting better . . . gradually . . . I make a point of giving myself something to do while they're working, either light housework or some writing, so that I'm working alongside them, but not managing what they do, except to chat with them about it as they finish and, when needed, to check it over.
Whoa, look, it's 10:30! This is a flexible day, for sure -- we didn't get in from our Thanksgiving road trip till after midnight, so my expectations of everyone, including me, are pretty much nil today. We'll try to hit some basket reading (Beorn the Proud, one of my faves), and then I've got to think about Advent in some kind of real way . . . like finding the candles and the purple tablecloth . . .
Anyway, good luck to you in sorting out your schedule. For me it's an ongoing challenge, though I have to say that, mostly, as I've relaxed into the fall, we have found a pretty workable rhythm. Still -- that could change overnight! Can't get too complacent about it! Which is why I always enjoy discussions like this. They help me to refocus. So thank you for bringing it up.
Sally
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pumpkinmom
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Thank you Sally for talking me through this! I really think it is a change to the schedule that is needed. I also see that I need to let go of some stuff that I'm reading to the boys and let them do more on their own.
I problem that I noticed this morning that could be causing some of my stress is the amount of interruptions while I working one on one and the other is suppose to be working alone. They chit chat back and forth during this time and I can't seem to make it stop. I can't focus when I'm teaching math to one and the other is talking to both of us at the same time (while they are suppose to be reading). With our small house I would have to send one to their bedroom with the door close to stop this (they hate this, they are very social and want to be with everyone else). I need to find a solution to this problem. Perhaps I could make a little desk area in my bedroom where we can school one on one to avoid this? This would mean no cleaning the kitchen between math problems though. Maybe this would work better for all. I keep telling myself, I just have two, if a mom of 5 or 10 can pull this off I have no excuse!
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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JodieLyn
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Cassie, the problem is that you only have two. The other one will feel left out and want to engage you more plus you can tune out a crowd of voices much easier than a single voice.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Dec 02 2013 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| Cassie, the problem is that you only have two. The other one will feel left out and want to engage you more plus you can tune out a crowd of voices much easier than a single voice. |
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Cassie
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Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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SallyT
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| Posted: Dec 02 2013 at 6:25pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, I'd find some kind of "conference room" space for one-on-one time. My two-at-home tend to do that, too -- I'm dealing with the problem of interruptions from them far, far later than I remember its ever being a problem for the older two. I think you also get a kind of binary thing going on, where both kids are focused on you, and you're in the middle, being pulled back and forth. I find myself having to break up that dynamic all the time.
And I think that no matter how many kids you have, homeschooling is a challenge! There's a real temptation to think that it OUGHT to be easier, because you only have one or two or however many kids, or you're not broke today, or your house is really pretty comfortable; in whatever way, your life looks like it ought to be a piece of cake, and if it doesn't seem that way, then you must be a whiner. I know I've thought that, and thought, "Why can I not get this together? What is wrong?" But really, most of the time, nothing's wrong in any big dramatic sense. Life just is kind of fraught sometimes, no matter what.
Today after our homeschool Gym and Swim class at the Y, two women were talking about difficulties with their kids, and this other woman turned to me and said, "Oh, look, they're complaining about TWO KIDS. Wah wah wah. Try FIVE." I was flabbergasted -- a) it was so unkind, though surely she didn't mean to be, and b) what mother of one doesn't feel stretched to the breaking point sometimes? And I wish I could have thought of some response that was both charitable and to the point, but all I could come up with was, "FIVE? I have friends with TEN. Try that on, sister. Wah wah wah." And that wouldn't have been very nice, so I didn't say it.
But yes, kid-interruptions drive me crazy. It's why I stopped grouping mine for school, even though, again, they're so close in age that that's in many ways the easiest solution. It was stressful to try to talk to them both together, and stressful to bounce back and forth between them when they were doing the same subject at the same time. This is also why I have several comfy chairs planted strategically in different rooms, so that I can banish people to them to get their work done.
I have also, rather counterintuitively, found that it helps to let my 11-year-old listen to music on his Kindle, with earbuds, while he works. Normally I don't like that dynamic of "I'm listening to music. Goodbye, world," but letting him kind of close in on himself while he does school is actually useful. He doesn't then feel that he has to be part of every half-overheard conversation I have with his sister -- because he can't hear it! Ha! I don't know how your older one would respond to that, but it might feel like a little privilege to him, and be helpful for you to have him a little bit isolated that way, if he can both listen and focus on his work. Some kids get too distracted, but both my boys seem to concentrate better with music in their ears.
Good luck with it all! I know all too well how stressful even really low-grade chaos, day after day, can be. Sounds like you're well on your way to figuring it out, though.
Sally
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Dec 02 2013 at 7:10pm | IP Logged
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Sally.. how about something like "oh I think everyone is entitled to a bad day now and again".
Because that was one of my pet peeves.. it seemed like someone with 1 or 2 kids could get away with having a bad day but if *I* was having a bad day all I'd get it "well you chose to have all those kids" 
I've learned to say enough in a positive way to seem normal and conceal enough to not sound insane
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Christine
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Thank you for sharing these links. We've been having a fairly good year. However, since I am teaching 7 children with a toddler in tow this year, I was feeling like I could not keep track of what the older children were doing despite having lesson plans for them. Yesterday, I met with my two oldest individually and it was such a blessing. This afternoon, I plan to meet with my third and fourth oldest. I spoke with my husband about yesterday's meeting and he commented, "Have you ever heard of parent-teacher conferences. Student-mom meetings make sense." I really enjoyed speaking with my oldest children about their lessons. I am so thankful to Jen for sharing her insights and to Cassie for posting the links.
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SuzanneG
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A couple quick thoughts.....and I haven't read through all the responses thoroughly so some of this may be repeat.
An hour every day for LA stuff seems like a lot....especially with you "doing" it with them....you should pretty much just be a "consultant" during LA by the age of 10. Can you describe your LA program? I'm betting you can get this down to 30 minutes a day, and most of it can be independent....let's brainstorm this!!!
Here's what it looks like in our house.........
My just-turned 10 yo (girl...so keep that in mind) does:
:: 10 minutes of Winston grammar 2 x week (with me)
:: 10 minutes of copywork 4 x week (independently)
:: 10 minutes of dictation 4 x week (on Mondays it's more like 15-20)...(Mon and Thur are with me, T,Th by self)
:: 5 minutes of talking about her previous day's written narrations (with me)
:: 5 minutes working on recitation or poetry (by self)
My 12 year old looks very similar except we spend more time on grammar, simply b/c it doesn't click with her, so more like 20 minutes 2/week.
LITERATURE: I don't count this as LA....she reads her meaty-lit in the afternoon by self....I get a 2 minute narration at some point.
WRITING: This doesn't include writing....since we are very loosey-goosey about writing and it's done more in a casual way. I'm not at all concerned about editing with my 9-10 yo....I just want her writing naturally. So, freewrites, letters, stories on her own...that kind of thing.
So, maybe if you're factoring in the WRITING process with the 12 yo....it WOULD be more.
***********MATH***************
Can you back up on math....IOW, go "down" a level so they work independently? I do this, simply b/c of time....my older three are working at a "lower level" of math simply so they can be more independent. They are capable of working 6 months - 1 year ahead of where they are at, but I would need to be helping them much more to do that, and I simply don't have the time. So,they go at a level where they can work pretty much independently, coming to me when they are struggling, not understanding the concept. OR.....when I correct their work and obviously they didn't get it.
:: Also, when dad is home, he corrects math for me. And, for my #2 dd....she corrects her own pages....but I know that takes a certain kind of kid!
***********INTERUPTIONS************
This is TOTALLY WORTH focusing on and working on. Having a "team meeting" about it and having a clear plan on how you are going to develop that virtue of patience and thinking of others while doing this.
Brainstorm what is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Brainstorm how to handle when they interupt.
Brainstorm consequences.
This is SO IMPORTANT! Do role-playing, give examples of real-life situations where they are going to have to be patient, or use judgement on when to interupt.
There is a thread somewhere here where someone said (when being interupted on the phone) "Is someone dying? bleeding? missing? Is there a gorilla on your head? Then please don't interupt!"
When I'm in the middle of something and someon is clamoring for attention, Idon't turn toward them, I put my hand up in a "stop" fashion and they know what that means. I finish my sentence or whatever we're discussing and then I talk to them. If they have walked away by that time, I call for them (when pregnant) or go see what they needed (if not prgenant).
I also keep a notebook/paper by me, so that I write down their name or whatever the subject was or question was that they were going to ask (if I knew or understood) and I try to follow up, if I get distracted or whatever. Becasue it's just so much to keep track of. When I get a few minutes I start making my way down the list.
I did this when I was working at the table with 2 or 3 at a time too, which is more like what you're doing.
You don't want them "sitting there waiting for you"....so I've tried to get my kids to think "OK, I'm totally stuck and I need help, and mom can't help right now, so let's see.....I'll put this away for now and get my copywork done, then I won't have to do it later!" And they aren't sitting there wasting time.
pumpkinmom wrote:
| With our small house I would have to send one to their bedroom with the door close to stop this (they hate this, they are very social and want to be with everyone else). I need to find a solution to this problem. |
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*********BEING ABLE TO WORK IN DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS*****
There's nothing wrong with insisting that at different times during the day there will be:
:: time where all 3 of us are together and we're quiet and focused and working
:: time where all 3 of us are together and kinda working, but having fun, talking, goofing off
:: Time where mom is working with one kid, other kid in a totally separate room
:: time where we are all in separate rooms completely focused
:: time where we are all in separate rooms relaxing
:: time where we are all hanging out together informally, doing whatever we want.
::etc.
Nothing wrong with creating these boundaries and getting them used to working in a variety of environments.
A child who HAS to be with others at ALL TIMES??? going to have problems when they are adults.
A child who HAS to be alone to get something accomplished? Also going to have problems as an adult.
We want / need them to be flexible for their future jobs, roles as husbands, dads, etc. Even though we "could" create whatever helpful environment they prefer....but is that really helpful in the long-run? It's probably totally worth it to create different times during the day when they ARE alone and not with the other.
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pumpkinmom
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Thanks Suzanne for all these thoughts.
Here is what is going on in the LA area. I do include literature and writing in this block. Typically it's the writing that doesn't get done.
Winston grammar x2 a week 10-15 minutes
dictation daily 5 minutes
AAS x3 a week (more below)15 minutes
literature x4 a week 10 minutes
writing x4 (more below) 5-30 minutes
I added in All About Spelling because my oldest just needs something else. It is really just a temporary experiment. My youngest is starting to out spell him. My youngest hangs out with us and does it too just because I don't want my oldest to think his younger brother spells better than him and doesn't need to do the lessons. I have yet to decide if we will just do dictation or keep using AAS too. It has also been a confidence builder! He *thinks* he can't spell and AAS spelling has been showing him that he already knows how to spell more than he though.
My boys won't sit and read for long periods of time, so literature is very short time for them.
Writing for now has been very Brave Writerish. Youngest is doing copywork or free writing or a writing project suggested from bravewriter. Oldest is doing copywork once in a while and a weekly written narration, and free writing. I'm wanting oldest to do IEW and we have started it, but it doesn't get done. Mostly because he can't watch more than 15 minutes of the DVD at a time and so it take forever to get done with a lesson. It's more writing than he wants to do too. My goal for January is work more on IEW. I also want to work more with my youngest on writing sentences. He just completely a story he was writing on since last spring and it showed me that he likes to write, but he can't write a sentence. I want to work on this while he is willing.
My oldest is already a year and a half behind his public school peers in math, so this is something we just have to get through. I'm thinking that since my youngest needs me less for math that I need to give him more independence in this subject. This would help!
Love your thoughts on interruptions and working in different environments!
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
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Hmmm....just saw that Sally said,
Sally wrote:
| "Schedule by child, rather than by subject". |
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Following up on this switch in case it's something you're considering
I switched to this type of "scheduling" this Fall I actually like it more than I thought I would. I did it for a few different reasons:
:: needed to be spending more time with a couple of the middle kiddos to lay the groundwork for the future (good habits, ways of doing things, getting them independent on certain things)...so I worked with them FIRST
:: an opportunity for the older two girls to work independently for certain time periods
:: give more of a framework for the toddler to be in the charge of different people so I could concentrate
:: a set time period for checking in with older kids to keep them on track, while getting them used to working on their own.
:: my energy level....it's easier to sit in one place with one child rather than going from subject to subject with the whole clan. Or moving around the table to work with each child on her particular work for THAT subject. Normally I prefer this....moving around, etc. But not in these circumstances.
:: set the stage for the next term as we adjust to another baby.....they have had 12-14 weeks of this "schedule" and the olders can function without me within this framework.
So, while it didn't sound attractive to me at first b/c a lot of our "together time" would be eliminated, the needs of the kids were changing and my needs were changing too b/c of pregnancy.
I didn't think of it how Sally worded it, but now that she says it, that's what it was...... scheduling by child instead of scheduling by subject
M-T and Th-F were the scheduling by child days. And, then WED was a "together day." So, I grouped all things we did "together" on this day with no seat work unless they wanted to catch up in the afternoon on things. We kept group read alouds in the evening before bed or audio during mealtime or when we needed a break.
I made a schedule with 30 minute increments going down the left, with everyone's name on the top. It sits on the fridge and in my notebook. At the beginning, I set my phone timer to go off every 30 minutes. It "felt" much more rigid than we were used to, but after the first month, we didn't really need the timer, and it seemed more natural for everyone.
Also, in this situation, ...they have their weekly list....the things that they have to do with me each day, I bolded. Bold things: with mom. Non-bold-things...do by self.
Physical location: I sat at the kitchen table with the child-I-was-working-with. Sometimes, there was one other child at the kitchen table with us, but not usually. I tended to discourage more than 1 other kid being there....too distracting. Sometimes there was a child 10 feet away working on the laptop. The person in charge of toddler was in other rooms. And, other workers were in close rooms or bedrroms working , but NOT at the table.
I noticed with doing things this way, that I got emotionally and intellectually TIRED after about 5 weeks....it was hard work in a different way....and I needed a break. So, we took a week off after week 6, so I could re-group. And, lots of weeks, we only did 3 days of "schedule" and 1 day of together, as opposed to 4 and 1.
I can definitely see the fruits of this after 3-4 months. Will I keep it this way forever? not sure. time will tell.
Some of this belongs on your INDEPENDENCE thread.....but, the "scheduling concept" of it belongs here.
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
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pumpkinmom wrote:
| My boys won't sit and read for long periods of time, so literature is very short time for them. |
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This is a worthy goal to work on for the next year. I'd love to brainstorm this, but I think it belongs in the independence thread.....so remind me to go there if I forget in a couple days.
But, from a scheduling aspect.....FOR NOW....you should keep factoring that into your day....but the GOAL should be for it to be eliminated in a certain amount of time. Does that give you hope??? Totally do-able especially since you mentioned that he is scoring decently in reading comp on tests.
And, same thing with the 9 year old....INVEST in this now...and in a year, it could be eliminated.
Sometimes just knowing that something is temporary,helps.
IDEAS: Instead of this being part of your "school time" could you make the LIT a fun thing to do at another part of the day? Like at night, for example?
I have noticed that if I "warn" a child that I want to read X or go through edits on a certain papaer or brainstorm XYZ before bed tonight....if I'm snuggled up in bed with a child next to me, it doesn't seem like "work" and I can rally. Whereas, if you ask me to do that at 2:00, I would just fall into a little puddle on the floor.
What sort of things are energizing to you? or FUN for you to do?
:: I like to read aloud. Totally relaxing for me.
:: I like to work on writing projects in a QUIET room with ONE CHILD in bed at night for 15 minutes or so. knowing that dad is in charge and I can lock the door.
:: I LOVE to get up earlier than everyone else with a struggling math-child, get my coffee and sit at the table and work on math FIRST THING IN THE MORNING! So, for 2 weeks, that's what we did and it was really fun. It gave us 4 hours of working on something that otherwise would've been drugdery if we did it in the afternoon or even in a loud 11:00 house. And, if you ask me.....work on writing first thing in the morning? NO WAY! Work on dictation? NO WAY! But, math with coffee sounds GREAT to me and I don't know why!
Brainstorm ways to get some extra time in where it doesn't feel like you're just plodding through.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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pumpkinmom wrote:
I added in All About Spelling because my oldest just needs something else. It is really just a temporary experiment. My youngest is starting to out spell him. |
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Hmmmm.....how does he KNOW this? I would try REALLY hard to keep them separated in this area if you think it's hindering him or discouraging him.
However, sometimes the competition can be GOOD, especially for those boys. But, that's something to look at and discern, b/c you know him best! Is it helping? or hindering? and then move forward.
My 10 and 11 yo DEF. out-spell my 12-yo. The main reason why we stopped doing dictations together about a year ago. But, she would be in tears b/c of it. Unlike a boy, perhaps. So, I choose totally different dictation passages for them (ugh...more work for me ) unless it's a history passage/speech/famous lines that we are ALL doing. But, I make sure dictations are doing quietly and NOT within the vicinity of others.
Would a teacher in a classroom be this "sensitive" about it? No way. But, then a teacher is not dealing with sibling dynamics and relationships that you want to preserve!
And, I DO, at other times, tell her to "get over it" (the younger child doing 'harder work' or whatever...just not on dictation, because it's extra sensitive for some reason.
OK....with after all that....
:: just be extra careful that with adding in AAS, he is not getting totally overloaded with Lang Arts.
It could be that his spelling is OK, just that your 9 yo is ahead. In which case, he's doing "more spelling" than nec. Everyone has to have a comfort zone about this. I actually don't care so much about the "spelling aspect" of my kids education. I do dictation b/c I think it's a worthy and noble exercise for SO MANY REASONS, only one of which is spelling. So, I'm okay with a child who isn't a good speller at the age of 10, 12 or even 17. But, I still want them to do dictation and focus and concentrate on those words and be successful at it. If they aren't successful, then I back up and give easier passages until they ARE successful.
Of course, if he thinks it's FUN and he WANTS to do it and it's building his confidence, then KEEP doing it! But, if he thinks it's fun, then he could maybe be doing it by himself????
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Suzanne in ID
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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I've been reading along with your thread, Cassie, but only now have a chance to grab my thoughts and get them up here to share. I'll apologize in advance for what will likely look like serial posting from me.
pumpkinmom wrote:
This year has just not been "smooth". We either feel rushed, scattered, too many subjects in a day, too much of this, not enough of this . . . . I could just go on.
Overall our school year is going well. We are liking everything we are using, I'm organized, and I like our schedule. Yet our days are not smooth. I'm really struggling to put into words how I feel. |
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I actually "get" what you're saying really well!! Really! My friend, it's not that you *only* have two, or *Great balls of fire - I have TWO!* -- it's the age/stage/season of your boys!! You've got a great list, and you're right, it's totally do-able with perhaps little tweaks here and there...and you're really right on the edge of discovering/uncovering this yourself...you just need to re-think how you schedule your day. It's a format/arrangement issue, not necessarily a content issue. At least, that's my initial take from reading along.
pumpkinmom wrote:
| I think I struggle with deciding what the boys can do alone and what needs to be done with me. |
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On this one, the answer is, a lot more than you might think right now. You may have to slowly build into this - it's worthwhile.
pumpkinmom wrote:
| I feel like the boys educational needs are not being meet. It is a constant struggle for me not to feel like they would be getting a better education at the public school . . . . I certainly don't think they would get better socialization so this is why I continue on this homeschool journey. |
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Ok - so this is crippling! This is the enemy whispering all those thoughts of inadequacy and incompetence. Not that you need it, but I'm giving you permission to let this go right now. You're doing great, and you are totally capable of conveying a more-than-adequate education! Let's assume that a) you and your dh have prayed about this and home education is the best decision for your family and you're content with that, and b) you're willing to do the brainstorming and work. If the answer to those questions are YES, then you are exactly the right person for this job and we get to eliminate the 'ol, "I'm shortchanging the kids education" variable right now. Ok? Great!
pumpkinmom wrote:
| I have some things I want to work on more and add some new things into our school day come January and I don't know how to go about it since our days seem full already. I don't think they are full but they aren't smooth so they just feel full. |
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This thought above tells me almost all I need to know. This is an issue of brainstorming HOW you're scheduling your day, not necessarily WHAT your scheduling. Any time we add a child, have growing children, children stepping into more academic work, or abstract work - we're going to have to shift and brainstorm again. And since families aren't static, that means, we'll always be brainstorming!! An example: I thought I had really settled into a great high school dynamic and plan...and then boom, my senior and I totally reworked how her day looked, worked, and how we outlined her plans and how they're executed. It caught me off guard a little, but it works better for her and meets her needs right now. That was really just ONE example of hundreds I've encountered over the years of thinking I might have *just* settled into a routine, and then BAM, I need to re-think/re-work it.
So, I don't know if that's encouraging or not, but I wanted it to be!! I don't think you're as far off the beaten path as you might think is what I'm trying to say!!! 
Nitty gritty ideas coming...but I don't want to be redundant and there have already been some REALLY FANTASTIC IDEAS AND BRAINSTORMING SHARED HERE!!! So, I'll read on and share ideas as they hit me....
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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I'm back again. 
My two boys are almost the exact ages of your boys so I'm finding it very easy to relate to your day and your boys.
pumpkinmom wrote:
9am-start school-morning basket: do three of the following-read aloud, geography, poetry memorization, character readings |
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How do your boys respond to this time? Do they enjoy it? Do you enjoy these read alouds?
Idea: ANY reading aloud/together time should be right here, and after this, it stops. The boys work on their own work from here.
pumpkinmom wrote:
| 9:45-math hour-I tend to work 30 minutes with each boy and they do Life of Fred and Times Attack while waiting on me if they don't have a worksheet they can do alone. This is rushed and it's tough working with both boys. I can sometimes spend almost the whole time with my oldest. |
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First, are you content with your math program(s) and approach? Content-wise, I mean? Are you content with that? If so, is there an area that one boy is really struggling with?
--> Back up and slow down
--> Split up lessons entirely.
--> Cultivate independence as much as possible here. (I know Suzanne gave some great ideas on this thread, and there's more on your independence thread.
Idea: Schedule the child that is struggling with math to work with you alone at a time when you can and he are "fresh" and brainstorm independent work for the other child at that time. Chances are, one child may need about 45 min-1 hour of work-with-you time, and another child may need 15 minutes of reading-with-you and then a little time to complete a few problems.
pumpkinmom wrote:
| 10:45-Language Arts hour+-spelling and grammar with me and they work alone on literature, copywork, writing. This time is very rushed and we usually don't get it all done. We don't do all those subjects every day either. We are really lacking time for writing. I want them doing writing every day and there isn't time. |
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An hour for lang. arts, if it isn't staggered well throughout the day, is going to be an overwhelming, even DAUNTING amount of work for boys 9 and 13.
Ideas:
Copywork should be independently done each day by both boys. Time investment: work toward this if you need to. If you have to and you need a little help/hand-holding, find some files online with copywork selections already chosen (Ambleside), or copybooks (Memoria Press has good ones).
Spelling - I would only work with the 12 yo on this, using simple dictation lessons. We can brainstorm that more if needed!! 2x/week. 15 minutes of you-child time.
Grammar - Same with spelling, only work with the 12 yo through your dictation lessons. Simple grammar thoughts pointed out as part of your existing dictation lesson. Extra time investment: none since you're already doing this with spelling.
Winston Grammar - If you want to continue Winston with your 12 yo, great! I think it works GREAT as part of that 15 min. dictation lesson, and if I'm really enjoying myself ( ), that lesson might stretch to 20 min. BUT...I wouldn't ask the 9 yo to join in. I wouldn't do WG at all with a 9 yo.
Literature - I wouldn't even call this it's own subject (and I don't until I have to "label" it that way in high school - and then it just gets a label - we still proceed with our schedule as we always have). I consider things I've scheduled for reading throughout the day in history, the arts, sciences - all our literature. This is ALL read independently and then narrated. I have been working throughout our entire first term this past year to get my 9 yo reading ALL of his books independently. This has been a transition term for him/us. It was a time investment, but it's DONE!! He's reading everything independently now, and narrating well.
Writing - Be careful asking for lots of writing from 9 and 12 yo boys. Writing works very much like reading as a skill - they get there when they get there. We don't have to push, make it overly structured, or kill their natural writer's voice in the process. For my 9 and 13 yo boys:
9 yo: I ask for daily copywork (10 min/daily), Freewrite Fridays
13 yo: Studied dictation (2x/week), written narrations (2x/week), Freewrite Fridays. {Sometimes 2 written narrations/week from my 13 yo is still a stretch. (Very different from my dd at this age, btw!)} My 13 yo and I walk ONE written narration through the editing process a term.
I hope that was clear enough to give you some ideas for language arts. None of the things I mentioned are "the right way," or the "only way," - I list it so you can see different ways this looks so you can begin to think of how you might shift your day around so more is independent and you can invest your time in needful areas.
pumpkinmom wrote:
1 pm: history or science
2 pm: religion |
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Consider all of this independent reading that you've assigned, unless you want to choose ONE BOOK that you read aloud as part of your Morning Basket time. This is a GREAT TOOL for you! Referencing your *independent work* thread --> Once you've identified those areas you'd like to begin transitioning a child to independent work, you've found where you'll invest YOUR time --> you-child-work time. So, now you've listed their independent reading on their lesson plans (history, religion (except maybe Catechism lessons that would be brief), and science) - this is their LITERATURE. They grab their reading and go!!
Scenario --
:: Mom-13 yo-work-TOGETHER-time on math lesson.
:: Instruct 9 yo to make a pile of his reading for the day - all his books. Send him to another room (nearby, but not in same room) to complete his reading. Add a post-it note to all books at beginning of term that designate --> read next 4 pages...or whatever you've chosen for that particular book. Now, they have books, and all the tools they need to READ INDEPENDENTLY and...
:: YOU have the ability to make a TIME INVESTMENT with another child. Ideally, the TIME INVESTMENT is part of transitionioning-to-independence in a particular area.
Make sense???
pumpkinmom wrote:
| and/or Latin-right now we are not doing any Latin and I want to add this in. |
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Totally do-able, but I might give myself permission to first:
:: brainstorm the schedule
:: shift HOW you and the boys are working - your scheduling
:: LIVE IT A COUPLE OF WEEKS
:: tweak again as needed
:: ...and then add in some Latin
OR....
:: do all of the above and hold off on Latin after you've identified the areas you may need to TIME INVEST in transitioning to independence. This could take a term of work. But, it's an investment!!!! And then, add in your Latin. But, it's totally do-able!!
pumpkinmom wrote:
| I struggle with staying focused. And I don't like going back and forth with them. Perhaps working with one in the morning and the other in the afternoon and doing together stuff first thing would help? |
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See? You were already beginning to see it! Work with this idea! Let it be malleable as you work with it. Let WHATEVER you end up letting your schedule look like be intuitive and do LET IT ALLOW for some down time for both YOU AND THE BOYS.
Idea - Re-work the boys' schedules and then lay them side by side on your desk/the kitchen table. Now, sit down with your computer and build a schedule for YOU based on your time-needs with the boys and however you've laid out their days. I do this for myself every term!!! Don't over-think this - I usually just list out:
Morning: 1st grader reading instruction and narrations, 4th grader's narrations & math
After Lunch: 8th grader's narrations, 8th grader writing instruct/assist, check math
Evening: 12th grader's narrations, review schedule & daily work, give input (brief - 10 min)
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When I do this I can see where I need to fit independent work for one child in order to give me time to work with another. And sometimes I have to brainstorm extra independent work -
** geography puzzles instead of geography lesson from me
** pre-selected copywork that is pull-off-shelf-and-go
etc....
-----------------------------
Off to read more...
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
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Oh good! Did you find some workable ideas there?
Jot anything down you want to brainstorm further???
Or maybe it's all just starting to factor into you being able to visualize how you might schedule your day a little differently??
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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| Posted: Dec 06 2013 at 9:39pm | IP Logged
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SallyT wrote:
| *What about scheduling by child instead of by subject? |
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Yes. This.
SallyT wrote:
| What I mean is, rather than grouping them for subjects (even if they're doing them independently), just give each child a list, in order, of what *he* is supposed to do daily. You can calibrate it so that one child is doing reading-intensive work (history, literature, etc), while the other is doing table work -- this way you're free to help the table-work child while the other one is occupied on his own. I find that this really helps me to move more peacefully through our school day. It also means that I'm not constantly trying to hurry one child up because the other one is finished with whatever activity, or ply a faster child with busy work to occupy him while the other one is catching up. |
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I'm pretty sure I was just redundant in my above posts - but since Sally and I were on the same track, I'll just choose to feel validated instead. Totally agree with her take here!!
SallyT wrote:
| Anyway, good luck to you in sorting out your schedule. For me it's an ongoing challenge, though I have to say that, mostly, as I've relaxed into the fall, we have found a pretty workable rhythm. Still -- that could change overnight! Can't get too complacent about it! Which is why I always enjoy discussions like this. They help me to refocus. |
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Exactly, Sally!! Again, I was being redundant, but hopefully, it's also encouraging, Cassie! You've really just identified a need to shift your rhythm a bit! That's all! And like, Sally and Suzanne, I love brainstorming things like this because thinking things through helps me identify ideas and patterns that work for us, too.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: Smooth Homeschooling Days
