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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Nov 28 2013 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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My oldest is two months away from 13. Independent work does not come naturally for him. I keep reducing our school work because he needs me at his side for almost all his work and we can't get it all done.
Any suggestions?
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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Erin
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Cassie
Have you tried lists so he clearly knows what is expected? Found that works well for my children.
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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pumpkinmom
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Erin,
He does have a list. It seems like any subject that he has to do alone doesn't get done well. Meaning I don't get a narration and retention is low. It's almost like he doesn't try unless I'm sitting next to him holding his hand and walking him through everything. "I would understand it better if you read it to me," is what he tells me. He scores high in reading and reading comp so this shouldn't be a problem.
I only have two children, I should have plenty of time in the day to get school done plus a little housework. Right?
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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anitamarie
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What I have done in a similar situation is make the dc do it over. We strive for excellence and doing our best. These are virtuous behaviors. If you know he can meet your standard, then make him rise to it. He will get tired of re-doing and then start giving it his best the first time out. But it takes strength on your part to do it.
You also need to make sure you've ruled out anything like ADHD, also.
Good luck.
God Bless,
Anita
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mom2mpr
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I went through the same thing with ds. I analyzed it and found it was OUR time and something we always did together so he expected me there. It was very foreign to him to work independently because it was part of our relationship.
I also, only have 2 children and I think that also might be part of it. My youngest takes a lot of my time and he needed HIS time.
I would gradually "wean" such as, " hey, you work on math for 5 minutes and I will come check it with you." And gradually increase the time. Temperament would determine whether I would discuss our goal or not.
Also, as when they were little, fill him with time with you another way, maybe even more fun  be aware these older kids take tons more time than the little ones and homeschooling seems to make it more intense, but the rewards of the efforts are huge. And being 13 you are right in working on this now-it took a long while for us to get some independence.
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Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
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SuzanneG
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Encouraging independent work is SO IMPORTANT...and totally worth a little front-loading now, so that little by little his/your day will look totally different.
The first thing to keep in mind is that we have to get out of the mindset that we are encouraging independent work FOR ourselves!  This is not about us and getting housework done, etc. This is about the CHILD becoming a self-learner and an excellent problem-solver and creative thinker so that he can have a DECENT life! Of course, one of the wonderful by-products and benefits of this is that we DO have a bit of extra time, but it's not the REASON why we should strive to help our kids do their work without us at a certain age.
********Not that you're not looking at it like this, Cassie....I'm just writing that b/c I think it's so important!********
LET's START WITH THAT LIST THAT YOU HAVE!
1. look at THE LIST. What things is he already doing by himself? Highlight them.
2. What things is he doing with you, that you THINK he SHOULD be doing by HIMSELF? Underline them.
3. What things do YOU think he should continue to do with you?
*******Start with the things he is already doing by himself*********
:: Make a mental note to really LOOK at those things over the next couple of weeks and make comments to him about his work --- mostly positive, of course. (save the suggestions for a month down the road)
:: Encourage even MORE independence with these things.
ie: LOCATION: Is he "doing" these things while at the same table as you? Then, encourage him to set up his "own space" so that he can do his already-independent-things AWAY from you.
ie: CHOICE: Is he doing copywork by self, but you choosing the passages? Encourage him to choose a passage from a given book on certain days.
*******THINGS YOU THINK HE SHOULD/COULD be doing by self*****
1. Pick 1 or 2 of these things. Preferably the easiest ones to deal with OR....maybe 1 that you think is a long-term-thing, so you can get going on it NOW! ie: you mentioned reading/literature...this would be a long-term thing, but pretty easily implemented. And, then 1 other thing.
You started the juices flowing on your copywork thread awhile ago....how is that going? Can that be one of them? Or have you worked that one out? Or maybe even thrown in the towel?
:: Brainstorm ideas for these two things....write down everything you think of, start a thread like you did with the copywork, talk to your husband, talk to your son. Ask him questions about his thought process when he's doing X. Write down everything you can think of.
:: Look at your list. Come up with a tentative plan. Give it a couple days to make adjustments.
A lot of helping a "dependent/yet capable" child become more independent involves backing up, so they CAN do it alone and in the meantime they realize how capable they really can be! But, when they are successful with the "easy", moving them right along quickly if you think they can handle it. It's more of getting into the habit of "doing by self." So, get them into the habit of it with EASY things, and they won't even notice that you've moved them 2 years along in a mere couple of months!
Dropping a couple recent threads in here....that talk about "backing up"....with Dictation and Narration/Literature.
:: Narration / Retention
:: CM Dictation Question
******THINGS HE HAS TO DO WITH YOU*********
:: Accepting this. But, always looking at ways to step away to set the stage for the future when you can transition into more independent work.
SO in your case, you mentioned in the other thread, that Math is just something you're going to do with him for now. GREAT! But, you can still set the stage:
ie: Working with my older-more-dependent-daughter on math.....we go through the lesson, go through an example, then she does 1 problem with me sitting there. After that, I turn my attention elsewhere, so she can work on the problem by herself. Under normal cirucmstances, I would actually GET UP and go tidy my desk or do something within 10 feet of her. Right now, though, I'm pregnant, so I stay sitting, but OBVIOUSLY open my planner and begin working on something else. I turn a bit away from her and do something else.
I'm there if she gets stuck, but the implication is that she should be trying to do this on her OWN! I can see when she gets distracted or starts drifting off....I say something indifferent like, "work the problem" or "back to work"....try to have the SAME phrase when distracted.
I'm there if I see she is struggling and can sit back down and say, "show me where you are stuck." I make HER explain to me what she has done so far and where she is stuck. I don't usually say, "Ok....so this is where there is an error." I try to make her explain it to me and then figure out where she is stuck.
I'm there if she is TOTALLY LOST, then we go through the lesson again and start all over or use different examples.
I come back while she is working on problems, and see if she's on the right track...if not, I mention that starting with problem 5, there is a "step you're missing" .... basically telling her it's not right and she needs to fix it. Then I "go away" again.
The idea is to give them HINTS and give them a certain amount of information and then walk away (or turn away) and give them the opportunity to TRY it themselves! I want them to get into the habit of at least TRYING IT BY THEMSELVES!
I do NOT, under any circumstances, sit for 30 minutes watching them do EVERY PROBLEM. Unless they have obvsiouly tried it by themselves, and they are totally struggling with a concept. But, even then, I am not sitting/watching....but explaining and giving examples. Once done explaining, they should try by self.
**************Other random thoughts:
:: change locations for work
:: eliminate distractions
:: make yourself less available
:: find things that they will willingly do by self and encourage time for this.
:: encourage hobbies that you don't know ANYTHING ABOUT! I love that my more-dependent-daughter knows more about playing the violin and about horses than I do. I show INTEREST, of course, but SHE's the expert on both those things and I keep reminding her of this to give her confidence and encourage independence in her more-struggling schoolwork.
:: do they order their own food in a restaurant? pay for things by self? does the 12 yo know how to make a return at a store for you? do they go up to sales people and ask where the bathroom is or do you do it? Do they have a part in organizing their activities? Do they make phone calls to other adults? Does he have a decent allowance to begin making purchasing decisions?
-------> I know....crazy questions....but really important things to encourage that independence! So don't discount all the daily, mundane things that he could be doing without you. This WILL translate into schoolwork little by little.
:: find opportunities in your household to make them THE
EXPERT. How are they with chores? Are they in charge of something TOTALLY or do they just have snippets of things to do?
ie: do they ONLY have to do the dishes? Or are they in charge of the entire kitchen clean-up? By age 12, they are totally capable of a total kitchen clean-up with your training, if they aren't doing it already. This gives them confidence to do things on their own!
ie: put him in charge of reorganizing something in your house and from now on that's his territory.
ie: we recently reorganized our storage area in the shop and my husband and kids did it all, so I'm going with that now....I will never ever again organize that or deal with it...I will put it on the "cleaning list" about 4/year for someone to rearrange, etc....so that a couple OTHER people know where things are and I do not. So, when I find Christmas CD's in February and they need to go in "that box" in the shop...I won't even know where the box is...but others will....so that means THEY have to go put it away. TOTALLY ENCOURAGES INDEPENDENCE!
OK...I think i've rambled on long enough, Cassie....you're going to be praying me into pre-term-labor pretty soon, aren't you????!!!!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Mackfam
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pumpkinmom wrote:
My oldest is two months away from 13. Independent work does not come naturally for him. I keep reducing our school work because he needs me at his side for almost all his work and we can't get it all done.
Any suggestions? |
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This is an excellent question, and you're not wrong to expect some independence from this age! Encouraging independence and building skills is super important!
I'm tagging on to the great points Suzanne already made. She's hit the biggies and I'd approach this in exactly the same way - identify what's working, find areas that can improve, brainstorm how to improve them!
I wanted to bring in one more idea to consider since it applies especially to a boy this age
Consider very critically -->
** What subjects/areas are asking him to think/reason in the abstract?
******* A season for sluggishness and slowing? ********
Not really - I mean, no one here encourages mediocrity, least of all ME!!!! But...boys DEFINITELY DO go through seasons when they need LESS - they need to back up a bit. The work at this age definitely begins to move them into more abstract thinking, which can be really overwhelming!! And this, for a boy, translates this way-->
:: Less working independently - looks for your help more
:: Not self-motivated (or even mom-motivated) in spite of all the right tools and clear expectations
:: Lacking in confidence
:: Displays competitiveness and possibly even hostility toward siblings that are NOT in this season of learning.
:: Self-destructs over challenges that seem simple to you
:: Actively avoids challenging areas on the lesson plans
:: Generally "wilty" and listless when it comes to lessons and work.
Solution--> back off, back up, slow down a bit. All of Suzanne's points are right on target for how I'd try to identify target areas and back up/off, give a little more space and instruction and then slowly roll forward again - giving him the reins again.
But I really did want that to be one of your considerations as you look toward independence for your 13 yo. It's a biggie! And sometimes, rather than pushing forward-forward, I really have to be content with backing off a bit in order to move forward again.
Have you ever seen a chinese finger puzzle? The more vigorously you try to pull your fingers out, the more stuck you are. Relaxing a bit yields movement.
Just a consideration for you to add to your list of brainstorming! Let us know if we can fine tune brainstorming for this anywhere!!!
I'm off to your smooth homeschooling days thread!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 8:25pm | IP Logged
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Suzanne, Thank you! Your ideas are awesome! I'm working on that list, location, choices, etc.
SuzanneG wrote:
You started the juices flowing on your copywork thread awhile ago....how is that going? Can that be one of them? Or have you worked that one out? Or maybe even thrown in the towel? |
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We actually have worked on this! I let the boys picked a book to read based on the Arrow issues I had on hand. I have to say that using the Arrow doesn't come naturally for me and I struggled with teaching from it. I do have ideas on what needs to be done, so we are still working on this, but we are making progress.
The math suggestion for teaching independence was very helpful! I may even make myself some note cards to guide me through math time.
SuzanneG wrote:
OK...I think i've rambled on long enough, Cassie....you're going to be praying me into pre-term-labor pretty soon, aren't you????!!!!
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I'm just glad I got this topic posted before you had the baby! You are a wealth of information. Thank you!
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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pumpkinmom
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| Posted: Dec 07 2013 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
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I've come to realize that his lack of independence is just as much my fault as his lack of wanting to be independent. It's hard to let go! I'm seeing where I need to let go now and I have the tools I need to do that.  to all!
It was said numerous times (I think by all who responded) to "back off, back up, slow down a bit", which is hard but I see why that is so important now. I mentioned that it seems that he struggles to give me narrations and has low retention when I'm having him work independently. I see an answer to that with "back off, back up, slow down a bit". I was requiring what I would if we were doing it together. No wonder! I will be working on this!
Science is one of the subject that I need him to do alone. Which he has done alone in the past, but he struggles with it. This is an area where I need to back up a bit and get him books that are below his level.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Teaching a child to work independently
