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Erin
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| Posted: Sept 15 2007 at 9:51pm | IP Logged
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I have been pondering a great deal on homeschool philosophy lately, as I shared previously I have been uninspired and unmotivated for a long time, much to my surprise I discovered I was not alone, further conversation confirmed this.
A couple of great threads that I was directed to included this one on seasonal/organic learning. Lots of food for thought.
So I stepped back and took a good hard look at maybe why our seatwork feels so 'schooly' which for me creates a feeling of 'going through the motions'. I have come to the conclusion that as much as I love much of CM philosophy the 20 minute lessons do not work for us. This jumping from topic to topic (I talk of maths and Language Arts here) is creating a sense of clock watching and disconnectedness, this is a large part of what is causing the 'lack of intimacy' that we are experiencing.
Julia S wrote:
| I too have looked over at other people's planning process and what I've noticed for those who are truly and happily engaged with hsing is they aren't doing a lot in a day. But they are doing whatever they are doing with their full attention. |
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This particular piece of wisdom had me pondering deeply, my thoughts (and a dear friend) then led me to contemplate the Waldorf approach to lessons. Instead of say doing copywork, dictation and spelling all on one day they look at their learning in blocks. So for example they may do a month of just spelling.
Now when I thought on this and the learning style of most of my children I could really see this working. I recall with my oldest at 6 how she would just focus on maths say, for three months at a time, really immersing and becoming 'intimate' with the material, I also see this behaviour with my dd5. I am comfortable with this at this age so why do I at some stage worry and change my attitude? 
I can see the sense of these blocks, I know that at times when the dc have really become excited and I can see learning happening and I've dropped the rest of the areas for the day they have 'learnt'  it is certainly more exhausting and intense but it is productive 
Last week I shared with dh where my thoughts were heading, that I was contemplating doing maths only 2 days a week and LA on the other three, however these would be time periods of an hour to an hour and a half. Maths would not only include their workbooks but literature and games. Dh was very enthusiastic and went on to share his thoughts which were very insightful  Sometimes I forget to ask for his imput and when I do I am humbled by the wisdom 
Dh talked about the seasons (sounds Waldorfish ) and how they can affect us, mmm when I thought it through my lowest period just now was in winter. He also talked about the Church's seasons (well I think I'm being hit on the head here I do get the message) we discussed my ups and downs, our periods of formal and informal learning, dh talked about the ebb and flow of life that it was all like tides coming in and out, (hey I said that sounds like the phrase Lissa uses Tidal Homeschooling or the 4 Real mums talk about seasonal/organic learning). But I bemoaned why do we have to go through the lows, I mourned my lack of enthusiasm, why, why  and then the darling man said something so insightful that I'm sure it came from the Holy Spirit, "Picture an apple tree, you are like that tree, for the blossoms to appear and bear fruit you need a season or two of frost, now is your frost time" 
This has just turned me right around, I have now embraced the 'frost season' and with this embracing I can just sense spring is here co-coincidently spring has just started here in Australia
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lapazfarm
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What a great insight, Erin! I like it!
I also think if I try to do too many things in a day we end up not enjoying any of them. So I plan for lots, but am happy if we only get to two or three a day because that means we have been enjoying them!
But as far as short lessons go, I do still try to keep my "lessons" short, then step back and let the children take over for the rest of the time. That's when the real learning happens.
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Mary G
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Erin,
Thanks for sharing and you're right - we don't always ask dh enough for advice .... give the guy a hug from your 4real friends!
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Elizabeth
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Erin wrote:
So I stepped back and took a good hard look at maybe why our seatwork feels so 'schooly' which for me creates a feeling of 'going through the motions'. I have come to the conclusion that as much as I love much of CM philosophy the 20 minute lessons do not work for us. This jumping from topic to topic (I talk of maths and Language Arts here) is creating a sense of clock watching and disconnectedness, this is a large part of what is causing the 'lack of intimacy' that we are experiencing. |
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Erin,
I have found exactly what you said above to be ture. We've settled into longer blocks, too, with the exception of things like math practice (basically, if it's a chore, we keep it short ).
Another CM thing that I'm re-thinking is the idea of narration immediately after a reading. In some cases, I think the Waldorf method of narration makes more sense. Waldorf allows time for letting the reading sink in, usually overnight. I think this is particularly important when it comes to literature. CM has an emphasis on remembering detail and facts. And I think there is a place for that. I'm inclined to allow time for germinating in the case of stories and require more precise retelling in the case of content area reading.
It feels less schooly to really allow pondering time.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Pamin OZ
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I could have written exactly what you wrote about CM, Erin and Elizabeth. And feeling less school-y is sort of a benchmark, not always achievable but if I can do it I think things work so much better.
Pam
also experiencing spring in Australia and waiting for this baby girl to be BORN...
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Erin
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| Posted: Sept 18 2007 at 5:39pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for your support everyone
Well the first two days have gone really well, the dc have still achieved the same maths workbook pages, we have played maths games and read maths books and picture books. It is a far more indepth way of learning. This is a really good fit for us
Btw Elizabeth, I have been pondering your recent post Monday Rhythms. It sounds very sensible to me to have a non-academic day when your family has had such big weekends out. I know when my dc have been out alot it is like they need to come home, wind down and play with all their toys, they have to go around touching them all, reassuring and re-orientating themselves. Sounds like your doing lots of thinking regards the rhythms of your days too
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Erin,
I'm being forced to re-think everything. Michael's leaving and my husband's increased travel schedule means the same schedule as last year just won't work this year. Unfortunately, the school year began well before I had the chance to really think it all through. So, now, I'm in the uncomfortable position of making it up as I go. Yesterday, was pure serendipity. When it works, I take notes and hope we can re-create it the next time. 
This is a great thread, Erin. Thanks for talking!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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Elizabeth wrote:
Another CM thing that I'm re-thinking is the idea of narration immediately after a reading. In some cases, I think the Waldorf method of narration makes more sense. Waldorf allows time for letting the reading sink in, usually overnight. I think this is particularly important when it comes to literature. CM has an emphasis on remembering detail and facts. And I think there is a place for that. I'm inclined to allow time for germinating in the case of stories and require more precise retelling in the case of content area reading.
It feels less schooly to really allow pondering time. |
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I must be Waldorf-y, then. Last year I gave narration one more thinking-through. I had always struggled with it, because in my childhood much of the value of reading came from quiet pondering time. Same nowadays, actually. It would have disrupted my process to have to come up with a response right away.
So, thinking through this validated my kids' reluctance to narrate, particularly with literature.
I decided to save the narrations for the more "packed" type of non-fiction prose that really needs a bit of review and consolidation in order to stick in the mind.
I like the idea of a main lesson too. One more way to simplify and integrate things and make Less count for More.
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Now see... my son prefers the shorter lessons
This morning I let him race the timer (or rather we timed how long it took him to do his work) and he did much better... but then we have the daily 'staples' and the longer 'studies' each day. The 'studies' are weekly deals.
I tried to incorporate the idea of a main lesson book in which he could write a small 'narration' too. He got distracted. I still think I am on the right track with that one though...
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Willa
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We do a bit of both.
I try to zip through the basics -- anything that's not very fun in itself, I think Elizabeth said on another thread.
But I am trying to allow more time and space and pondering time for the the other subjects, and not worry too much about "show me work". When I require production, I try to keep it easy and rewarding. Of course, sometimes they produce things on their own, and that is great. I am trying to strew more opportunities for art and expression, so that they develop some ease with the media before
Anyway, these are some slight changes in emphasis I've made this year to get past that midlife homeschool burnout So far, so good.
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WJFR wrote:
But I am trying to allow more time and space and pondering time for the the other subjects, and not worry too much about "show me work". When I require production, I try to keep it easy and rewarding. Of course, sometimes they produce things on their own, and that is great. I am trying to strew more opportunities for art and expression, so that they develop some ease with the media before
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I too have been doing the same.
I had decided on the Multa non Multum ideal... and I loved the 'main lesson book' for the 'studies' part.
I think DS is beginning to get into the swing of things... but we'll definitely do more timed stuff in future
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AnaB
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Hello!
I am unfamiliar with Waldorf methods. What is the "main lesson book"? Could someone explain this to me?
I am finding that our language arts is our hardest area right now for my boys. They are 9 years old. They hate to write. I was using something similar to PLL and that's okay. We also do copywork. Then I decided to try dictation. That was a flop!!! They hated it. Their spelling isn't very good, so this was like torture for them even though they studied the passage (taken from a book they had read the day before). It was only two lines. I wrote the two lines on the dry erase board and erased a few carefully chosen words. They then copied the passage and I dictated these words to them. I think I got that idea from Bravewriter. They hated it.
I bought Imitation in Writing Aesop thinking that maybe this would be a good way to incorporate spelling, writing, and some creativity. That was also a flop. We only did one week and they just don't "get it" as to what they are supposed to do.
Any thoughts? Maybe I should post this in the language arts area too?
I also tend to fizzle out on Thursday and Friday to the point that we barely get to anything by Friday (at least the parts of our homeschooling that depend on me).
Willa I'd love for you to describe what changes you have made that you have found are working for you.
Grace & Peace!
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For writing issues... you could try spelling on the computer (no handwriting) and leaving the handwriting as pure copywork. Boys are notoriously pencil phobic, but I got my son to love writing by letting him choose the style.
The main lesson book... well there are samples online here and here hth.
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Thanks Rachel!
What about if the boys refuse to type correctly? We have Mavis Beacon and almost finished the program when I noticed that they were typing with two fingers the whole time!
Also, I see the main lesson books, but I just don't understand what people do with them? I'm sorry I'm so clueless. All this is new to me!
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I dont think 'typing properly' is such a big issue right now. You might try the 'it's quicker' route, but sometimes it is best to pick the battles
As to the main lesson books... they are a way of narrating if you will... the child covers the page with their artwork, drawing to represent elements of the story. You'll notice that the amount of writing increases as they get older. I saw one site where a woman had her high school books up, and they were quite stunning.
I think it is like notebooking and scrapbooking in a way... the kids find a way to embellish and describe in an art form, what they have read.
All the work from a 'main lesson' is put into the book... main lessons are really what Willa and Elizabeth are talking about with the longer 'blocks' for lessons.
Quote:
| There are no text books used in the elementary grades of Waldorf schools, and even in high school their use is sparing. Instead, the teacher presents material, such as a story about Valley Forge and how bad the conditions were for George Washington's troops. The students listen and absorb what the teacher presents. The next day they will recall the previous day's presentation, each contributing to its retelling. More details might be added, and then the students would work on a composition, or dictation, or creative story to put into their Main Lesson books. The following day a beautiful picture will be drawn, or perhaps a map, illustrating the narrative. These Main Lesson books are, in effect, the textbooks used in Waldorf schools, the difference being that they are created by the teacher and students. Only the best and most beautiful work is put into Main Lesson books. This approach continues through high school, and many a Waldorf graduate has referred in college to the books he or she created in high school. |
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from the Christopherus website explains the books best. Think of it as 'drawn' narrations
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Elizabeth wrote:
Erin,
Unfortunately, the school year began well before I had the chance to really think it all through. So, now, I'm in the uncomfortable position of making it up as I go. ! |
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This is happening to me this year also. A new baby and such made for no real planning this summer. We jumped right in!
However, I'm NOT feeling comfortable with how things are going. Something is out of sync. We are off. Something needs to change.
The clock watching is really bugging me--always feeling like we need to hurry and jump to the next subject. I have four kids asking me for help at once--
"What am I suuposed to do on this page?"
"Teach ME!"
"When is it my turn?"
Meanwhile I am nursing a newborn and holding a wild (but sweet  ) 2yo. I feel very disconnected this year and VERY pulled in many directions.
I think one thing that will help, after reading several of the Waldorf threads this morning, is to STOP thinking we have to do lots of subjects in a day. The small short lesson thing doesn't seem to be working here. We switch gears too often with that approach and chaos erupts. Also, as a mother it means getting four people into four different tasks and since they're staggered timewise, it literally means helping someone every five minutes with one arm (baby in other). 
But, then, there's that nagging feeling within me that says we're behind, since last year with a very sick pregnancy we skipped so much, the year before we had a new baby and moved, the year before that I had a very sick pregnancy, the year before that I had to recover from hemorraging and a c-section with a new baby, and the year before that I had a 20 week miscarriage and then another very sick pregancy. . . Will it very just be smooth sailing?
This year I'm feeling a lot of anxiety. . .
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Willa
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WJFR wrote:
| I try to zip through the basics -- anything that's not very fun in itself, I think Elizabeth said on another thread. |
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Oops, I guess it was this thread. ....just looked back. Elizabeth said "anything that's a chore..." There are several threads going on that seem to be coming together in my mind!
Though I like the idea of having a "math day"! Spending the day immersing ourselves in manipulatives, games and living books. Math is my littlies' favorite subject right now (they are both doing Kindergarten work) -- what changes during those primary years! Maybe it's time to revisit the "fun stuff" for my 11 year old!
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Willa
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Willa
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| Posted: Sept 22 2007 at 11:10am | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
This has just turned me right around, I have now embraced the 'frost season' and with this embracing I can just sense spring is here co-coincidently spring has just started here in Australia |
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you know, it's fall here, but the same thing happened to me. When I acknowledged what was going on, in the midlife thread, and embraced it, I started finding joy in unexpected places.
Your DH's wisdom is much appreciated!
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Willa
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WJFR wrote:
When I acknowledged what was going on, in the midlife thread, and embraced it, I started finding joy in unexpected places.
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This is so true!
To say again what you said. . .when you really just accept what's on your plate as given to you by God the joy is there.
I read recently that Fulton Sheen had said that there is a big difference between Joy and Pleasure. Joy is for the mind and soul, pleasure is for the body. More on this later. I need to go to a soccer game.
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AnaB wrote:
Willa I'd love for you to describe what changes you have made that you have found are working for you.
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Sorry not to write back before, Ana. I have been thinking about your question!
I wrote about some of the things that are working for me in the thread Mary started It's all 4 Real -- I think some -- most? -- of it applies to this thread too.
My ongoing problem is slowing down the pace and so I'm looking for more slow-type things (crafts? art projects? notebooks?) to do that won't disengage or frustrate my boys.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Seasons, Ebb & Flow,CM/Waldorf, My Spring
