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Cheryl
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WJFR wrote:
Just some things I've been thinking about. I hope it doesn't sound like a rant!  |
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Willa, to me, what you wrote sounded like a good letter to the suthor of that article.
I've been thinking about how much fun I have reading and participating in the discussions on this board. Then I wonder why it is that the time I spend with the real life Catholic homeschooling Moms in the group I joined is rather dull. Is it because we don't know what topic to start a discussion about, so no one says anything? Or is it that most people are afraid to be themselves in person? I usually either 'click' with someone right away, or we struggle for awhile (sometimes always) with decent conversations. The people with which I 'click' with right away, are usually extroverts, unlike me who's an introvert that can talk a lot once get really comfortable with a person.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Cay Gibson
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The one thing I miss online are the lovely friends I have in my area hs group. I have invited them several times to join us here. They have so much wisdom and ideas to offer. But they are all so busy and don't do Internet as much as I do. Guess it's the writer in me. Don't know.
Even those who read feel uncomfortable with writing. Or, I think, they are skitish of the whole Internet "imagery". Weird that it always comes back to that.
Then there are times that the real life and the real imagery meets like it did here in my little corner of the world. And it's so awesomely NEAT! 
I love my real-life friends and am blessed with a great group of like-minded Catholic hsing mothers but there are differences in our group just as there are in many. I recently discovered that some of the more traditional Catholics in our group have officially split from the group. And, since I always try to stay in the middle of things and keep everybody happy, I don't know which way to go. 
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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alicegunther
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I do not know where to begin to say, I agree with you! So many excellent points have been made here. Taffy's point about CP is excellent.
Thank you to Martha for your generous words.
This was an interesting note:
Cay Gibson wrote:
| The one thing I miss online are the lovely friends I have in my area hs group. I have invited them several times to join us here. They have so much wisdom and ideas to offer. But they are all so busy and don't do Internet as much as I do. Guess it's the writer in me. Don't know. |
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Cay, I find this so interesting. There is a huge contingent of homeschoolers here who absolutely will not go online for anything. I've told some of my *most intimate friends* about 4Real and Cottage Blessings, but they just don't do the computer. It is such a funny thing.
Plus, it can be amusing when Mary Ellen or MacBeth shows up, and we (occasionally-we try to be sensitive) start chatting about our friends Cay and Dawn and Angie and Elizabeth and Meredith and . . . . well, ALL OF YOU, but most of the locals do not know who we are talking about!
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mother of seven!
    
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Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
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MacBeth
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alicegunther wrote:
Plus, it can be amusing when Mary Ellen or MacBeth shows up, and we (occasionally-we try to be sensitive) start chatting about our friends Cay and Dawn and Angie and Elizabeth and Meredith and . . . . well, ALL OF YOU, but most of the locals do not know who we are talking about!
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What Alice is really saying is that you are all so 4Real that we talk about you behind your backs .
Just kidding, dear friends. 
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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Erin
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MacBeth wrote:
alicegunther wrote:
Plus, it can be amusing when Mary Ellen or MacBeth shows up, and we (occasionally-we try to be sensitive) start chatting about our friends Cay and Dawn and Angie and Elizabeth and Meredith and . . . . well, ALL OF YOU, but most of the locals do not know who we are talking about!
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What Alice is really saying is that you are all so 4Real that we talk about you behind your backs .
Just kidding, dear friends. |
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Well I can totally relate to this. I have a couple of dear IRL friends -Lynn and Anna P from Oz who are on the Magnum Opus board and of course many of you here are also on that (as I was before I had to cut back on time  ) and we often talk about you all when we get together
The conversation goes like this..Phone rings, its Lynn, during the conversation she asks, "have you checked your emails today?" "No"
She responds " ..... is in labour keep her in your prayers today" Will do. or it may be prayers of another type. In fact my friend has a prayer jar and all of the requests for the MO list goes inbto the jar on their altar and one of their decades is offered up for all the intentions.
Or we talk about the great ideas and resources that are suggested here. Even my non-Catholic hs friends are now used to hearing about you and are now familiar with many of your names and I know one of them checks out this board occasionally. So how is that for international connections.
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Erin
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stefoodie
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Oh yes, they're real alright. But 4Real is the "realest" community I've ever seen.
I have my work online community, and there's a forum we're "supposed" to visit on a daily basis, but I don't go there often. Just don't have that much in common with the people there, and sometimes I'm put off by rude remarks, bad jokes, etc.
I have other blogosphere "groups" that I belong to, but belong superficially. I'm the most "me" when I'm here. Even on my blogs, to some people it may seem like I reveal too much about my family, but the truth is I reveal more here at the message boards than on any of my blogs. Of the hundreds of blogosphere "friends" that I have, I can only count three whom I can really trust with personal matters.
This is the only place I can go online where I'm not afraid of being judged or ridiculed, where none of my questions are deemed stupid, where my littlest concerns are understood, where my biggest worries and desires are shared and prayed for. I wouldn't trade the friends I've found here for 1000 unreal friends in the "real" world. This is the place I go to when I need/want to          , etc.
I see you all as my family outside of my IRL family.
So thanks and
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mom to five
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Willa
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Chari wrote:
my IRL friendship with Willa, due to the fact that Aidan was ill, of all circumstances.....we had so much in common, and still do.....our kids have even stayed in the same room at UCSF hospital (at different times)....how many time have we stayed up WAY too late chatting our imaginary conversations.  |
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Oh, Chari,
just saw this -- the thread went on past and I didn't realize I had missed reading so many posts --
All the things you say, I ditto!
My daughter, who prayed so many years for a sister and then prayed for a kindred spirit best friend, got her kindred spirit friend and some almost-sisters who she loves so much and wishes she could see more often. They have enriched her life so much. That is not imaginary at all!
Anyway, you really touched me -- sniffle -- I wish this west coast was a little more consolidated so we west coast CMers could have more IRL get-togethers .
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Leonie
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I have many real friends who are virtual friends - and my eldest son got to stay with many of them - IRL!
So, the online community is definitely real - so many families that I have never met welcomed my son Luke when he visited the US in 2004. I am hoping to do the same for children of friends come the World Youth Day in Sydney ( the offer is there, anyone!).
I have friends in email and in communities like 4 Real and IRL - and they are ALL real.
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Rachel May
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Elizabeth wrote:
| When I really think about it, I'm more ME here than I am in person sometimes.... |
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This and some other interesting points like Willa's about being a slow thinker and Alices's mention of seeing into a mother's heart through her blogs (mmmm...lovely) have spun me off into thoughts on the nature of identity, our "true" self, Heaven, and what is reality. What fun!
On topic though, I will say that--to me--it seems like cyberspace is "realest" for those who engage the most which often means taking it outside the computer. I love to tell people that Jenn "translates well to reality". I would love to find out if we all do.
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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aussieannie
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WJFR wrote:
| So I was immediately distrustful of the original article that Danielle referred to -- I think it's fine for people to express opinions but I usually dislike "exclusionary" opinions -- things that limit or constrict human choices rather than expand them. I don't mind cautionary viewpoints but I hate to see the baby tossed out with the bathwater. |
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Everyone's comments have been well said, but this one Willa is just so true!
This forum has a special quality like no other that I have visited, (in otherwords - a place to stay, to put down roots and be enriched) it is a place to visit where you always leave spiritually and emotionally blessed, it is a place to find treasures and gratefully bring into your own life.
The virtue to balance our time on the computer is the same virtue needed for everything good in our lives (food, recreation etc.) - being strong willed I can struggle with everything from time to time but the issue is with me not the things of benefit and pleasure.
God Bless, Anne
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Natalia
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Rachel May wrote:
On topic though, I will say that--to me--it seems like cyberspace is "realest" for those who engage the most which often means taking it outside the computer. I love to tell people that Jenn "translates well to reality". I would love to find out if we all do. |
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You have said what was in my mind. I have been on this board from almost the beginning and frankly I don't feel that I am known or that I know people. It is not that the forum is not real to me. It is. I pray for the people here most days. I refer to conversations here frequently but somehow I have never felt that I click with anybody.
I haven't found a way to "translate well to reality". I hear of the conversations you guys have on the phone, pm or whatever and I wonder how do they do it? how do they take the conversations here off the computer? how do they get to know each other so well?
I have the opposite problem that Willa. I feel that who I really am doesn't come out right online. Maybe it is because I don't write well or because it takes me so long to sort out my thoughts in writing that I would end up investing an inordinate amount of time at the computer.
Another observation: it seems that the people that feel closer all have blogs. Maybe not having a blog is part of why I feel out of the loop a little. The bloggers seem to have formed a community within the community. They read each other's blog and encourage, support and affirm one another in a way that probably makes 4real more real.
So for me the challenge this year is how to make 4real more real...
Natalia
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Bridget
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I don’t know. I was on the CCM list for years before I really started posting. I was so in awe of the moderators and contributors there. After a while I had reason to send private emails with a question or support to specific people. Conversations grew out of that. Now I count many of those ladies as friends but it took me a long time. I think real friendships do take some time to build.
I have made a few new friends through blogging. I think you get to know a person a little faster by reading their blog than through an email list. Here on the forums, I do make an effort to respond to those I don’t know if I have something reasonable to contribute.
Natalia, I think you are absolutely charming and you do present yourself well in writing.
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Lissa
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Natalia wrote:
Another observation: it seems that the people that feel closer all have blogs. Maybe not having a blog is part of why I feel out of the loop a little. The bloggers seem to have formed a community within the community. They read each other's blog and encourage, support and affirm one another in a way that probably makes 4real more real.
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Natalia, this is a really interesting observation. I was thinking about how I became close to the online friends I'm close to (if you can follow that sentence, LOL), and I see two strands of internet relationships at work in my life. One set are the friends I've known for some ten years now through the CCM list and other lists. That's a lot of history, a lot of stories shared and crises weathered.
And over time, I met many of my CCM friends at NACHE and other conferences, so that strengthened the bonds. Those are the friendships that spilled over from the list to emails, phone calls, and visits.
But you are right--the second strand of newer but very real friendships has been the fruit of the blogs. Perhaps it is the visual element, the wonderful photos, that helps you feel connected to a blogger very quickly: you are able to peek through a window into her home, and that does make it so REAL.
Also, I think blogs allow for a kind of personal anecdote-sharing that you can feel sort of self-conscious about on a list or forum. What I mean is, I might feel a little shy about repeatedly coming here and saying "oh guess what hilarious thing my daughter said today." But when I put that on a blog, I know the people who read it are people who CHOSE to stop by, so it doesn't feel like I'm imposing it on anyone the way it might if day after day I were posting those stories on the boards. On the board, it might feel like "Oh puh-lease, Lissa, enough already about the cute kid!"
Even though I know I wouldn't feel that way about OTHER people's stories (I will take my daily dose of Karen E's Ramona stories wherever I can find them—I'd pay money for a subscription if I had too!), I would still feel self-conscious about overdoing it here. Does that make sense? And yet it's those very stories that help us know each other more intimately, the shared jokes, the affection we begin to have for each other's children. Honestly, how many of you chuckle and think of my girls whenever you see the Pillsbury Doughboy?
So, Natalia, you've really got me thinking here! I wouldn't ever want the blogs to mar the warm fellowship we all value so much about these boards. Maybe we all need to remember to bring our funny stories here more often (there's even a thread just for that purpose--begun long ago by Alice, queen of the hilarious anecdote, of course!).
But also, I think it can just take time for these relationships to grow. I know I was posting on the CCM list for a long, long time before I was chatting with people off-list. I remember hanging sheepishly in the background for many months after inadvertently starting a firestorm with a question about discipline. LOL!
I'm glad you voiced those thoughts, Natalia--there is much to ponder here.
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Lissa
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Erin
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Natalia
I know who you are, you are known My dd still wants to call our 'next' baby Natalia, after I suggested your name. I remember English is not your first language, that you struggle with housework (whoops) and why.. that you have girls etc. See you are known we do 'reveal' ourselves through our posts.
I don't know if I would have quite the same take on blogs, in fact I rarely have a chance to get to the blogs and yet I feel as if I know you all from here quite well. I see what you are saying Lissa and don't entirely disagree but as we have posted here about blogs before we tend to focus on the postitive on the blogs. I know that if I want to 'hang it all out' I would post here before I would on my blog. Then again my blog is pretty neglected
I guess to form any relationship we have to take risks. Whether its IRL or online. I know I often wonder "how do I sound? are they just wishing I would 'shut up'. how does Aussie humour translate for those in other nations? I know I could be taken the wrong way for that alone" I will re-read things and think 'could that sound know-it-ally?' etc. But I know I have to jump in and risk.
For those of you who don;t feel that you post much and aren't as well know as say ....I won't embarass anyone I listen. Everywoman who posts has something vital to say, I get excited when I see new posts from our new members and we/I get to know them. Often someone says something that resonates and you think 'yeah' but then you think I won't post and hog I'll just shut up BUT often you appreciate what is said but don't always write that. I'll be quite now
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
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doris
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This is such an interesting thread.
I've got conflicting feelings about this. On the one hand I have gained so much from this board and from the blogging community: so many insights about home ed, CM, living the liturgical year, faith, etc. etc.. I'd never even heard of Charlotte Mason before I stumbled across the Mater Amabilis website a few months ago. This is the argument I use to my dh when he questions all the time I spend on the computer, anyway!
Buuut ... I'm also uneasy about the whole thing. For myself, there's the tendency to present on my blog a very airbrushed view of my often very un-frabjous days. There's the temptation to compare my own life and family and home education to others' -- which is *such* a trick of the devil. And it's very easy on a forum like this, which includes some titans of CM and large families, who've known each other forever, to feel like a complete outsider. I'm sure that's partly a question of time and partly geography, as well as other things.
Does this make any sense? Or have I just wandered miles away from the original question? I suppose one answer to that might be, yes, they are 4real, and like IRL communities, nothing is perfect.
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
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Lisbet
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I will sheepishly admit to lurking her for a LONG time before jumping in. I was so intimidated by the eloquence, knowledge, grace and beauty that you all had to share. And, a bit by the close knit relationships some of you have. (Which I think is GREAT!!)
I also felt a bit 'star struck', since I had read Elizabeth's book so long ago, and so many time, I felt like she was a celebrity and I was a groupie!
I'm so glad I got over it and joined in. I think the point that was made about it being difficult for moms of many littles to have a coherent conversation in person is so true. It is in my case at least. I have a few really close friends that I speak to regularly, and visit once in awhile, unfortunetly our conversations are so touch and go, we loose our train of thought easily, we are interrupted often.
Here, we all communicate almost daily, and this medium allows for well thought out, meaningful discussion.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
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Cay Gibson
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Oh, Natalia, (((HUGS)))!!!
I know who you are. My best friend's name in 5th grade was Natalie and I noticed a long time ago that yours ended with an a. I thought that was such a pretty twist to a pretty name.
I'm also glad you brought this up because it has crossed my mind but I never knew how to approach the subject.
I think you used one word in your post that should send up a red flag to all of us:
Natalia wrote:
I refer to conversations here frequently but somehow I have never felt that I click with anybody.
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We don't want this group to succumb to "clicks" (I'm thinking there is another spelling for that but I can't think of it at the moment ).
I'm at fault too of bringing personal conversations here but some of these ladies I've known since the original CCM list was not even a year old. I know some of these ladies better than I know my own cousins.
Still, I feel it's un-Christian to form "clicks" (Sp?). We want everyone to feel welcome and comfortable. These isn't a country club or a sorority.
I'm sure some members will "click" within the confines of this message board. We call them "kindred spirits", but I do think the Christian thing to do is to reach out to others we might not know as well because that's what God calls us to do. That's exactly what St. Thersea the Little Flower did and she's a worthy model to follow.
I've missed some of the replies here but someone mentioned Willa saying some are "slow thinkers" (not sure if this is the term but don't have time to investiage). I'm one of those. Get me talking and I can talk for hours but...
I'm not a big conversationalist on the telephone. I feel like I'm having to think about what to say and by then the person is wondering if I'm still there. I am also such a visual person that I cna't seem to hear much of the conversation unless I can see their face. I often feel left out when others speak about talking on the phone. I've only spoken with a handful of those ladies and they've had to call me because I'm just not one to pick up the phone and call. I'm always thinking, "Dear me, I'm sure they're busy or schooling or fixing to leave the house. I don't want to bother them or inconvenience them."
I figure they aren't to blame for not calling me because I don't call them either. Still, it makes one feel out-of-the-loop sometimes. I understand completely what you are saying.
I really have to go now. Kayleigh cooked tonight and dh is home from work. Time to eat. I do hope to revisit this converssation.
Thank you for approaching it. I always look forward to posts when I see "Natalia" as the sender.
God bless you!
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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doris
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Cay Gibson wrote:
We don't want this group to succumb to "clicks" (I'm thinking there is another spelling for that but I can't think of it at the moment ).
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Cliques! I thought about using that word but decided it would be sour grapes
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
Frabjous Days
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Cay Gibson
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Thanks, Elizabeth.
I could hear dd dishing out the spaghetti and forks clicking in the kitchen and dh walking in the door so I was typing in a rush and my mind just couldn't "click".
I hope my post didn't sound like  "sour grapes". I was voicing that I hope we avoid that here. All groups tend to form cliques and that's sad because that's one of the things we teach our dc never to do.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Bridget
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In a group this size, whether it is in the flesh or on the internet, everyone isn't going to be friends with everyone else. Everyone is friendly however. And this group is one of the best at attributing good motives before taking offense.
All of my close friendships here and elsewhere have been formed from common ground and solidified through supporting each other in trials. You can connect with a kindred spirit rather quickly, but it takes some time to call them tried and true friends.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Are online communities 4real?
