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SeaStar
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| Posted: Oct 13 2012 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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I recently received the book "A Pocketful of Pinecones" as a gift, and I was struck while reading about having children create a field guide or nature notebook. Both Anna Comstock and Charlotte Mason agreed they were valuable, but here is the difference:
"Here Miss Comstock and Miss Mason are in agreement, except that Miss Comstock thought that no child should be compelled to keep a field notebook, and Miss Mason required each student to keep a Nature Notebook in the normal course of things." p. 23
Wow- two very different attitudes. I admit I have often wondered about this. My kids spend tons of time outside in nature... so do I really need to insist they draw pictures of the lizards they love to catch? In some cases this is turning something they love into something that is a bit of a chore.
When we go to different parks and gardens, they want to run, see, smell, touch and explore... but not necessarily sit and draw.
So- not trying to stir up any controversy here, but I'm just wondering...
do you come down in the Mason camp or the Comstock camp?
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Oct 13 2012 at 6:40pm | IP Logged
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I think there are a lot of ways to "notebook" in this modern world. Photography is one of those ways; my son had to draw or photograph 10 animals for a Boy Scout merit badge, and he enjoyed taking the photos. (He sketched the enormous rat we saw - we were living in Italy at the time - because we could not get the camera out in time to take its picture!)
Another alternative might be a mini-webquest; children observe animals in the wild, then look them up online later to learn more about them.
A third option would be to use field guides instead of the internet, asking children to try to identify one of the animals they observed based on their characteristics.
You could go the same way with plants, trees, bird nests (yes, there's a field guide for them!) and more.
One of the things we've discovered over the years is that journaling (nature, reflective, observational, whatever) is typically a love-it-or-hate-it activity. We've focused on using alternatives to journaling whenever possible because my children have never enjoyed the process. They've done plenty of nature study, and we've found ways to document their observations and research, but you won't find that documentation in a nature journal.
Just my thoughts...your mileage may vary.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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JennGM
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SeaStar wrote:
I recently received the book "A Pocketful of Pinecones" as a gift, and I was struck while reading about having children create a field guide or nature notebook. Both Anna Comstock and Charlotte Mason agreed they were valuable, but here is the difference:
"Here Miss Comstock and Miss Mason are in agreement, except that Miss Comstock thought that no child should be compelled to keep a field notebook, and Miss Mason required each student to keep a Nature Notebook in the normal course of things." p. 23
Wow- two very different attitudes. I admit I have often wondered about this. My kids spend tons of time outside in nature... so do I really need to insist they draw pictures of the lizards they love to catch? In some cases this is turning something they love into something that is a bit of a chore.
When we go to different parks and gardens, they want to run, see, smell, touch and explore... but not necessarily sit and draw.
So- not trying to stir up any controversy here, but I'm just wondering...
do you come down in the Mason camp or the Comstock camp? |
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Well, I'm confused, because what I read in Comstock doesn't differ much from Mason. In fact, I think Comstock's book refers more to notebook writing than Mason does, adding extra text in every section to add questions in the notebook. Is the child FORCED to notebook with Comstock? No, but it's highly encouraged, and her book does emphasizing keeping a notebook.
Comstock: Handbook of Nature Study wrote:
THE FIELD NOTEBOOK
A field notebook may be made a joy to the pupil and a help to the teacher. Any kind of blank book will do for this, except that it should not be too large to be carried in the pocket, and it should always have the pencil attached. To make the notebook a success the following rules should be observed:
(a) The book should be considered the personal property of the child and should never be criticized by the teacher except as a matter of encouragement; for the spirit in which the notes are made is more important than the information they cover.
(b) The making of drawings to illustrate what is observed should be encouraged. A graphic drawing is far better than a long description of a natural object.
(c) The notebook should not be regarded as a part of the work in English. The spelling, language, and writing of the notes should all be exempt from criticism.
(d) As occasion offers, outlines for observing certain plants or animals may be placed in the notebook previous to the field excursion so as to give definite points for the work.
(e) No child should be compelled to have a notebook.
The field notebook is a veritable gold mine for the nature-study teacher to work. in securing voluntary and happy observations from the pupils concerning their out-of-door interests. It is a friendly gate which admits the teacher to a knowledge of what the child sees and cares for. Through it she may discover where the child's attention impinges upon the realm of nature and thus may know where to find the starting point for cultivating larger intelligence and wider interest.
I have examined many field notebooks kept by pupils in the intermediate grades and have been surprised at their plenitude of accurate observation and graphic illustration. These books ranged from blank account books furnished by the family grocer up to a quarto, the pages of which were adorned with many marginal illustrations made in passionate admiration of Thompson Seton's books and filled with carefully transcribed text that showed the direct influence of Thoreau. These books, of whatever quality, are precious beyond price to their owners. And why not? For they represent what cannot be bought or sold, personal experience in the happy world of out-of-doors. |
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Miss Mason did have the nature notebooks as integral part of her philosophy, but her language echoes Comstock as this is a personal notebook for the child. It's not to be corrected, and the child should record what fancies him.
Charlotte Mason:
Volume 1 wrote:
Calendars.--It is a capital plan for the children to keep a calendar--the first oak-leaf, the first tadpole, the first cowslip, the first catkin, the first ripe blackberries, where seen, and when. The next year they will know when and where to look out for their favourites, and will, every year, be in a condition to add new observations. Think of the zest and interest, the object, which such a practice will give to daily walks and little excursions. There is hardly a day when some friend may not be expected to hold a first 'At Home.'
Nature Diaries.--As soon as he is able to keep it himself, a nature-diary is a source of delight to a child. Every day's walk gives him something to enter: three squirrels in a larch tree, a jay flying across such a field, a caterpillar climbing up a nettle, a snail eating a cabbage leaf, a spider dropping suddenly to the ground, where he found ground ivy, how it was growing and what plants were growing with it, how bindweed or ivy manages to climb.
Innumerable matters to record occur to the intelligent child. While he is quite young (five or six), he should begin to illustrate his notes freely with brush drawings; he should have a little help at first in mixing colours, in the way of principles, not directions. He should not be told to use now this and now that, but, 'we get purple by mixing so and so,' and then he should be left to himself to get the right tint. As for drawing, instruction has no doubt its time and place; but his nature diary should be left to his own initiative. A child of six will produce a dandelion, poppy, daisy, iris, with its leaves, impelled by the desire to represent what he sees, with surprising vigour and correctness.
An exercise book with stiff covers serves for a nature diary, but care is necessary in choosing paper that answers both for writing and brush drawing. |
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Volume 3 wrote:
In Science, or rather, nature study, we attach great importance to recognition, believing that the power to recognise and name a plant or stone or constellation involves classification and includes a good deal of knowledge. To know a plant by its gesture and habitat, its time and its way of flowering and fruiting; a bird by its flight and song and its times of coming and going; to know when, year after year, you may come upon the redstart and the pied fly-catcher, means a good deal of interested observation, and of, at any rate, the material for science. The children keep a dated record of what they see in their nature note-books, which are left to their own management and are not corrected. These note-books are a source of pride and joy, and are freely illustrated by drawings (brushwork) of twig, flower, insect, etc. The knowledge necessary for these records is not given in the way of teaching. On one afternoon in the week, the children (of the Practising School) go for a 'nature walk' with their teachers. They notice for themselves, and the teacher gives a name or other information as it is asked for, and it is surprising what a range of knowledge a child of nine or ten acquires. The teachers are careful not to make these nature walks an opportunity for scientific instruction, as we wish the children's attention to be given to observation with very little direction. In this way they lay up that store of 'common information' which Huxley considered should precede science teaching; and, what is much more important, they learn to know and delight in natural objects as in the familiar faces of friends.
The nature-walk should not be made the occasion to impart a sort of Tit-Bits miscellany of scientific information. The study of science should be pursued in an ordered sequence, which is not possible or desirable in a walk. It seems to me a sine quâ non of a living education that all school children of whatever grade should have one half-day in the week, throughout the year, in the fields. There are few towns where country of some sort is not accessible, and every child should have the opportunity of watching from week to week, the procession of the seasons.
Geography, geology, the course of the sun, the behaviour of the clouds, weather signs, all that the 'open' has to offer, are made use of in these walks; but all is incidental, easy, and things are noticed as they occur. It is probable that in most neighbourhoods there are naturalists who would be willing to give their help in the 'nature walks' of a given school. |
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Volume 6 wrote:
| The nature note books which originated in the P.U.S. have recommended themselves pretty widely as travelling companions and life records wherein the 'finds' of every season, bird or flower, fungus or moss, is sketched, and described somewhat in the manner of Gilbert White. The nature note book is very catholic and finds room for the stars in their courses and for, say, the fossil anemone found on the beach at Whitby. Certainly these note books do a good deal to bring science within the range of common thought and experience; we are anxious not to make science a utilitarian subject. |
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Long-winded, I know.
Short answer, I do follow the Mason school of thought. We have a scheduled short walk once a week (I invite local homeschool group) and I schedule time to draw or paint in the journals. Our notebooks are VERY loose. My youngest right now is enjoying mixing the different colors and testing.
Why do we do this? I want to have them in the habit of observing and taking some time to sit and create. I limit the time so it's not painful.
The big difference using Mason's approach vs. Comstock is that I'm not sticking to a theme, which would be Comstock. We might have various seasonal observations, or be on a kick to look for certain items (like Lichen and moss), but I don't require to keep our notebooks along these themes. What they draw or write is what has caught their fancy.
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SeaStar
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Thanks, Jenn and Nancy, for your thoughtful replies. They gave me something to mull over this weekend 
I am seeing at my house what Nancy mentioned: keeping a nature journal seems to be a delight or a no go, with not much ground in between. I like the suggestions for alternative methods of journaling.
This statement from CM volume 1 puzzles/discourages me:
Innumerable matters to record occur to the intelligent child. While he is quite young (five or six), he should begin to illustrate his notes freely with brush drawings;
What notes is a five year old taking?  Given the choice, my 9 yo would rather draw a picture any day. Pushed he will add a few words as text. Pushed further....end of nature notebook.
I did glean a useful idea from "A Pocketful of Pinecones." The main character had her children draw on separate sheets of paper, which they then cut out and pasted in their notebooks. That might work better for my dc- who might draw their lizards spontaneously a week after playing with them.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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SeaStar
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Coming back to add that Hook, Line and Seeker by Jim Arnosky is a wonderful nature journal....
a "man journal"  . My ds is really enjoying this right now. I am hoping it will inspire him.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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Becky Parker
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I've been terribly discouraged with our lack of nature journaling this year. (Actually last year as well.) I really need to find the time to schedule the nature walks and the time for journaling, but I'm struggling with that. We are coming and going so much this year it is really creating problems. I subscribed to the emails from Handbook of Nature Study in the hopes that they would help me stay on top of this, but I'm afraid they are just reminding me that we are not getting to our nature outings/journaling like we should be.
However! I'm inspired by this thread to do a better job of it!
I am also inspired to stop being such a stickler about the kids drawing what they see. We always take the camera, I should just print the pictures and let them glue them into their journals. That might even be a motivation for them.
Wish I could see inside that book Melinda! It sounds like just the thing for my four boys that love fishing!
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SeaStar
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| Posted: Oct 18 2012 at 9:50am | IP Logged
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Becky- here are some pics from inside the book. It is a combination of text, field guides, photos and drawings. It is really well done and covers fishing, boating and observing wildlife.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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JennGM
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I had such a lovely experience yesterday. I open up our nature study time to our local homeschool group. Only a few families come, and it's not always regular attendance. Yesterday was an example of all new faces.
One young boy was NOT going to draw. He even left his materials in the car because he refused. It was so wonderful to see how being out for a little walk, observing, watching other children enjoy and gather specimens of leaves to draw, he was ready to do it at the end. He really was proud of his leaves and wanted to draw and color more.
I just have my boys draw something they have seen on this walk, and to date it. Minimal requirements. Being onslaught with electronic devices makes this such a welcome and needed activity for us.
I think I mentioned it before, but Dr. Carroll's talk on Nature Study and his further thoughts here were really helpful to me to persevere.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Becky Parker
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Thank you for the pictures Melinda that looks like just the book for a couple of my boys!
And Jennifer, I'm thinking it might help if I invite some of the other families in our group. Maytbe that will MAKE me stick to it!
Your comment about electronic devices is so true. I think we have started the bad habit of finishing school work in order to have "electronics time". That leaves little time for enjoying the great ourdoors, which used to happen just naturally around here.
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AmandaV
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SeaStar wrote:
Coming back to add that Hook, Line and Seeker by Jim Arnosky is a wonderful nature journal....
a "man journal" . My ds is really enjoying this right now. I am hoping it will inspire him. |
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This looks great, Melinda! And the used prices are great! I think when I looked the other day it was cheap from amazon too, but now they seem to not carry it new!
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Amanda
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SeaStar
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Our copy is used but in great shape. It is softcover but with a sturdy cover and really nice, glossy pages- one of those book that is nice to read and to hold.
I am becoming an even bigger Arnosky fan!
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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JennGM
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knowloveserve wrote:
| Umm, I think I meant to post that reply in the "am I just hopelessly unschooly thread.". Sorry! |
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LOL! I thought the end applied, but I was wondering!
I could move it, or do you want to quote yourself and post it in that thread, too?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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knowloveserve
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I think you can move it; thanks!
All the threads sometimes blend together in my brain... 
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JennGM
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knowloveserve wrote:
I think you can move it; thanks!
All the threads sometimes blend together in my brain... |
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I moved it to this thread.
But isn't education with a CM approach like that? It all blends together!
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MaryM
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Adding this portion of discussion from the liturgical planning thread because it fits here so well, too. Nature study/notebooks and our Faith.
JennGM wrote:
Today is the feast of St. Albert the Great, patron of scientists, students, natural sciences, medical technicians, philosophers, and theology students. .
I have a tendency to just think "He was the teacher of St. Thomas Aquinas" but he is "Great" on his own accomplishments and sanctity. I was thinking of this thread "Nature Notebooks: should they be required" when I was reading his biography this morning from The Young People's Book of Saints by Hugh Ross Williamson.
This is the saint for nature study!!!! He studied and observed in great detail all of nature, Williamson says,
Quote:
But it was not, of course, Albert's learning that made him a saint. The reason he was interested in all natural things was because he saw in them a reflection of the wisdom of God, Who had made them. He had a passion for exact truth, because he was sure that all truth, of whatever nature, must lead to God, Who is Truth; and he was always very careful to distinguish between what he had actually seen for himself and what other people had told him. ...
...And, above all, this great scientist knew that there is such a thing as 'excessive' searching after knowledge--the kind of idle curiosity that just wants to know things for the sake of knowing them, or even for pride in discovering them, and not because that knowledge leads to God Who created everything. |
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My son thinks we need to rename our Nature Study group after St. Albert. |
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Pope Benedict wrote:
In response to the ensuing moral and spiritual chaos, Pope Benedict called on all people to discover God by following three paths.
The first path involves contemplating creation. “The world is not a shapeless magma, but the more we know, the more we discover the amazing mechanisms, the more we see a pattern, we see that there is a creative intelligence,” the pontiff remarked. |
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SeaStar
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I saw that this morning, too, Mary! Now I know where to go for help when our nature studies are flagging...
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Nature notebooks: should they be required
