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kristinannie
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I have three beautiful kids. (DSalmost5, DD3 and DS9months). I had to beg DH for the third child. I just felt like I definitely hadn't completed my family. Since I knew he didn't want a third child (although he is completely in love with DS and always has been), I just assumed I couldn't have any more kids. I am starting to have those feelings again about wanting to have another child. DH's family is totally against me having any more kids. They were openly hostile when they found out I was pregnant for the third time (although they love DS). I think his mom is a little jealous since she could only have two kids due to health reasons (also the reason why she was so hostile towards me breastfeeding).
Anyway, as a practical note. How much more work is it to add a 4th child, especially when it comes to homeschooling? I have a pretty organized system in place now. I haven't started HSing yet (we are starting in July for real although we are definitely doing some HSing right now during afternoons and snow days). It seems to me that my level of chaos is maxed out and adding another baby won't really mess things up too badly (aside from the morning sickness and the first couple of months after we have the baby). Our lives really didn't change much after we had the third (other than needing a bigger house and car). I want to have the facts so I can talk about this with DH. The other day, he was holding DS9months and said, "I could totally do this again." It gave me a glimmer of hope....
BTW, what is the correlation between people with large families and those that HS? It seems like there are a lot of large families HSing. Maybe we are just the type of people who like to live outside the box a little. Or maybe we just listen when God directs us...
Sorry this was long and rambling! I appreciate any insight you can offer. 
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Bridget
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The dynamics are different in every family, but you hit on the key, listening for what God is calling you to do.
Our 4th was a breeze and our kids were 6, 4, and 2 when he was born. Similar to your age spread. Your oldest is just on the cusp of being helpful in small ways too so that might be encouraging.
Anyone here will tell you that I love large families and am a cheerleader for them, so you won't get objective advice from me. 
Be positive with your husband. Assure him that he is doing a great job as a dad and husband, that he has great children and you are loving the life you have with him. That might encourage him to being open to another child, it can't hurt your relationship either!
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Erin
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Bridget wrote:
Our 4th was a breeze and our kids were 6, 4, and 2 when he was born. Similar to your age spread. Your oldest is just on the cusp of being helpful in small ways too so that might be encouraging.
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This was my exactly my experience too. I think No. 3 stretched me so much I was just a malleable piece of elastic by No. 4  Actually I was just speaking to my No. 4 yesterday (he is now 11) about what a delightful baby he was, I remember his babyhood with such joy.
It is hard when one spouse is feeling called and the other isn't at the same place. Just pray hard and God will do the work.  Sounds like He is already. 
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Erin
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wifemommy
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Three was the biggest adjustment the following 5 have just been more love ok and even bigger vehicle, but the oldest kids get bigger and they are more help and now I am spoiled in some ways life is easier for me. As for the inlaws remember that is their problem not yours  Annie
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Kathryn
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Only you and your husband can prayerfully and realistically decide what is best for your family and home. It sounds like you can reasonably handle another child already having 3 small ones so that's a great sign! 
I'm so sad your DH's family would make things difficult and somewhat less joyful. Someone in my DH's family asked "well, is this it?" and I said "not until I get my own tv show!" We both just laughed. Well, that's prob. not going to happen as I'm certainly not a spring chicken anymore so this prob. is our last baby. Sometimes you just have to move forward in your life without letting other's regrets, opinions etc. discourage you but you can still be loving and respectful and have a sense of humor.
Good luck with the baby-making!!
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Bridget
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Kathryn wrote:
| Someone in my DH's family asked "well, is this it?" and I said "not until I get my own tv show!" |
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Good line, I like your sense of humor!
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Becky Parker
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I think it's interesting that many people find having 3 children the most difficult (including myself). I remember praying when I was pregnant with #4 that God would please help me because I didn't think I could handle a 4th child. Well, he was pretty easy and each one after has been easier and easier!
Regarding your dh's family - btdt! I just try to stay positive and not sound defensive around them. I think it's already bearing (baring?) fruit because they see what a fine young man our oldest is turning out to be.
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Becky
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Betsy
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I will be the voice of descent here. I was very worried about having my third, because most people feel that this is a very difficult adjustment. However, my third was my easiest baby/adjustment by far!
Sooooo, when I had my fourth, I was very casual about it (maybe a little cocky), thinking that three wasn't that bad so four will be find. Weeeeelllllll, number four has knocked me for a loop. It has taken me almost 2.5 years to feel like I am normal again after having him.
I believe that most families find that certain additions to their families are harder than others. While there are some general patterns as to when this happens, all families are different and the transition often depends a lot on family/temperament situations.
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mamalove
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every child after #2 has been easy.
Homeschooling them as well has been easy after the first 2.
Dont let the relatives control your family size. Im sure you will be just fine. Tell them to keep their noses in their own pudding.
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JodieLyn
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there are advantages and disadvantages to every family size, every spacing between children, every age your child will be etc etc.
I think for me more than the number of kids it was the age range. Mine are closely spaced together.. and so when we had #3 the oldest was only just 3 yrs. #4 and she was only 4.5 yrs. For some reason here everything was more dependant on the age of my second oldest. Before the "teeter-totter effect" would take place.
In other words.. my oldest would be capable of doing something without my constant attention and direction.. but until her brother was also there.. she'd have a real hard time doing it when all the rest of the kids were not. But once her brother could as well.. the two of them doing that would cause the younger kids to copy them.
So I went from working so hard to keep everyone behaving during Mass that I would be sweating by the end to all of a sudden having everyone copying the older kids and doing what they should without my "hands on attention"
And what age this idea works for will be different depending on the personalities/temperaments of the kids (and the mom!).
So imo the difficulty or ease is about way more than just the numbers. Because it's way easier to take my 9 kids to Mass now than it was when there was only 4 of them
As far as the relatives, feel sad for them that they can't be happy for others if they do something different than they chose.
But also I know a lot of people that the relatives were very against more kids at #2 and #3 and #4 but then started easing up.. maybe they figured out that their opinion was well and truly not gonna help and they might as well get used to it.. or they figured out that it wasn't such a bad thing, or they figured out that they were being left out of the loop because of their attitude. I mean.. I know I didn't want to share things with someone who'd be nasty about it.
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stellamaris
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I also had a lot of opposition from my mom. She just couldn't understand at all my choice to have a larger family, and EVERY time I talked to her, she would make a comment. This went on for years and years. I was able to overcome this with two approaches:
1. I changed my attitude. I realized that my mom just was worried about my health and happiness, and how hard it was on her to see the multiple pregnancies, surgeries (all c-sections), and hard work that were the consequences of having more children. So I tried to understand her point of view even if I did not agree with it. I accepted that it was MY decision, not hers!
2. I stopped defending myself, or even making any response at all. I would just let her talk, and then, when she appeared to be finished, I would go on with another topic of conversation. I had come to the point where I realized I could not changed her, and I certainly was not going to change my open-to-life approach, so there really was nothing to say. Finally, one day, she ended her comments with, "But I guess it's really not my decision." At which point, I replied, "No, it isn't." And that was the end of the negative comments.
I hope your relations can accept your choices, but even if they do not, it is important to realize that they are choices only YOU and YOUR DH can make. No one else's opinions matter.
As far as adding a fourth, I had the same experience as Jodie; my fourth was very close in age to the third and the pregnancy was very difficult, so she was my "hardest." So much depends on the temperament of the baby, too. If they are colicky or don't sleep well, it's going to be a lot tougher. If they nurse and sleep well, it will seem easier. If, like one of mine, you have a special needs child, it could be overwhelming.
Regardless of the situation, God will help you through it.
The decision to have more children has to rest on some other basis than whether that child will be "hard" or "easy". There is no way to know that in advance. Have you considered talking to your priest about the matter?
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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dinasiano
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Caroline,
I just want to thank you for sharing what has helped you with your mom. I have the same situation here with my mom. I will be pondering all you have written- thanks!
Dina
Mom to 6 gifts
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mamaslearning
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Betsy wrote:
Sooooo, when I had my fourth, I was very casual about it (maybe a little cocky), thinking that three wasn't that bad so four will be find. Weeeeelllllll, number four has knocked me for a loop. It has taken me almost 2.5 years to feel like I am normal again after having him.
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Yep! That was me too! I find that I'm always counting heads whenever we are out of the house - 1, 2, okay where's 3? Oh, there he is, and baby makes 4!
Having four actually was the catalyst for homeschooling. It's too expensive for private school, and the ps is not an option for us around here right now.
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Lara
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JodieLyn
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mamaslearning wrote:
I find that I'm always counting heads whenever we are out of the house - 1, 2, okay where's 3? Oh, there he is, and baby makes 4!
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yep you do start counting a lot don't you the one that was hardest for me with counting was #5 it seems like such a large number.. and I'd look around and there just didn't seem to be enough kids to be 5.. and then I'd count.. and then count again and then rememnber to count the baby in the sling.. and sure enough there was 5 of them. 
Now I count 9 and get all discombobulated when I only take some of them with me.. and then I have to count the kids that aren't there.. this one is with dad, that one's at a friend and two are with grandma and then I have one, two, three, four and baby makes five.. yep they're all accounted for
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Lisbet
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I think that accepting that it is, and will be, hard is a huge part of it. I would never kid myself with "oh this next one will be a piece of cake'. Personally, I've never had an 'easy' transition, each have had their challenges in one regard or another. But, obviously none have been challenging enough to stop us!
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Greta, 3
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kristinannie
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I want to thank all of you for your responses. I feel like I am having a crisis of faith right now. My DH really had to have his arm twisted to have the third baby. He has always been excited about it once we started trying though. He says he is definitely done, but he does make some comments that lead me to question that. I wanted to give away the old baby clothes and my maternity clothes when we moved, but he said to wait awhile. He just loves the kids when they get a little older (like DS is almost 10 months).
I got an IUD put in after my third (sorry if that is TMI). I really didn't want to do it, but I didn't want to be on the pill for 20 years either. I have never felt right about it. The other day, I thought it had fallen out and I went to the dr and it was still in there. I was really sad about it. I was so relieved that it was gone (or so I thought). I never want to do anything permanent to myself or my husband.
I know the church has relaxed its stance on birth control (to help prevent the spread of AIDS), but I feel like having this IUD inside me is standing between myself and the Catholic church. I don't know if that is a crazy thought or not. I guess I could talk to our priest about it (thanks to the PP who posted that). I don't know him very well. The priest I know really well moved to another parish about 4 hours away. Maybe I could call him.
I just feel like I am at a crossroads here. I am praying about it a lot. Hopefully God will send me an answer soon. Any prayers you could send my way would be greatly appreciated! God bless.
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Betsy
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kristinannie wrote:
I know the church has relaxed its stance on birth control (to help prevent the spread of AIDS), but I feel like having this IUD inside me is standing between myself and the Catholic church. |
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Kristin,
I am praying for you and your family right now. I wanted to quickly point out that the Catholic Church has not changed it's stance on contraception, despite the best efforts of the secular media!
This is a wonderful and readable article by Dr. Janet Smith that explains what the Pope said and how it was wrongly interpreted.
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When handcrafting my work, I always pray that it will raise your heart to all that is true, modest, just, holy, lovely and good fame!
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MaryM
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Thank you Betsy for clarifying that the Church has not changed her stance on contraception. I do think this recent quote taken out of context does cause confusion and added to misunderstanding that already existed, so Janet's response is good. There are other Catholic commentators that addressed it as well.
I really like the tracts from Catholic Answers and Catholic United for the Faith as they can present the basics of a topic or teaching in a clear and summarized way. So on the general topic of the Church and contraception I am linking Birth Control - from Catholic Answers
Kristin, you mentioned trying to see the priest - I do recommend seeking well formed guidance and direction from a priest. I will be praying for you in your struggle and discernment.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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kristinannie
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Betsy wrote:
kristinannie wrote:
I know the church has relaxed its stance on birth control (to help prevent the spread of AIDS), but I feel like having this IUD inside me is standing between myself and the Catholic church. |
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Kristin,
I am praying for you and your family right now. I wanted to quickly point out that the Catholic Church has not changed it's stance on contraception, despite the best efforts of the secular media!
This is a wonderful and readable article by Dr. Janet Smith that explains what the Pope said and how it was wrongly interpreted.
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Thanks for posting that information about the stance on birth control. I did talk to my priest about birth control when I was in premarriage counseling. I was on the pill for the first couple of years of our marriage and I was concerned about that. He told me that the Catholic church teaches that family should include children and we must not prevent having children. He also said that God doesn't want us to have children we can't take care of or love so we can limit the amount of children we want. I am starting to think that maybe this wasn't really in accordance with church teaching. I do feel like I want another child. I feel like I can love and care for another child. I honestly don't think we could handle 7 or 8 kids (plus, I am already 34). I love the Catholic faith so much, but I honestly don't agree with every single thing that the Pope says or that the vatican puts out. I do want to follow God's plan for my life though and I know that God wants me to be in accordance with the Catholic church. That is one of the main reasons that God led me to homeschool. I feel like our faith gets lost when kids only go to Sunday School for an hour a week. I want them to be immersed in the faith every day through our schooling.
I guess I should make an appointment with our priest. I have never done that before. Do I just call the parish office?
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Mackfam
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Kristinannie,
I'm so glad you trusted us enough to bring up this difficult topic. It is clear that the Holy Spirit is working and I pray you may find your answers within the beautiful deposit of faith within the Catholic Church. These are not new or unusual questions, though they may feel heavy and weighted to you right now. The good news is that the Church has answered them! Unfortunately, this issue is one that is frequently misunderstood among Catholics and even some priests are wrongly informed in these matters. We should pray mightily for our priests and for our seminarians that their formation always be rooted in proper Church teaching!
On matters of our Catholic faith, this board states the teachings and guidance of the Church as needed to clarify any faith issues.
These quotes are taken directly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Any emphasis is mine.
#2366 wrote:
| ...."it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life." |
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This is actually a quote in the Catechism taken directly from Humanae Vitae, an encyclical which beautifully and directly addresses these issues and questions you are facing.
What does the Church say about exercising responsibility concerning procreation of children?
#2368 wrote:
| For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. |
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So, if every act must remain open to life, and we are called to generosity and responsibility in parenthood, does the Catholic Church offer us direction? Yes.
#2370 wrote:
| Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or a means, to render procreation impossible, is intrinsically evil. |
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That is a lot of information to take in, kristinannie. Seeking spiritual direction from a well-formed holy priest would be invaluable for you and your husband right now. He can speak directly to your particular needs and situation in an ongoing way: through conversations, offering the Sacraments of the Church, assisting in formation of conscience in a way that an online message board cannot do.
The Church's teaching on life and contraception is unchanging. Thanks be to God that we have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Her encyclicals and instruction so that we can read and grow in understanding.
Since your original question posed requested practicals and brainstorming about managing a large family while seeking the grace to be open to life, let's continue discussing that! If you'd like to start a new topic in the Domestic Church forum about the Church's teaching on openness to life and Her stance on contraception, please do so. This is a sensitive issue - not one that can't be discussed, but it does require great sensitivity and respect when speaking of our husbands and priests.
Know that you are in my prayers.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Question for moms with large families!
