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Kathryn
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| Posted: July 06 2010 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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I think this is prob. the most appropriate place to ask this question. In thinking about the other thread in terms of educating boys in general, I'm wondering if/when further evaluation should happen for a child. I know here and in homeschooling circles, we prob. accept a wider range of "normal" as opposed to traditional schools. Where do you find your normal for your child if there seem to be learning issues? Am I only making this more evident (hence, stressful) by sticking to the workbook type stuff based on grade level?
For example, although my son could have started kindg. we had him complete a bridge class and started kindg. at age 6. However, for kindg, 1st and 2nd grades (in a private school), he struggled and remained either at or near "the bottom". This year he was technically 3rd and we did some subjects 3rd and some in 2nd. He has done ok.
He doesn't have any official diagnosis b/c everything seems somewhat borderline. We had a battery of tests done thru the public school at the end of grade 1 and we constantly heard "if he'd only pay attention....". They did recommend speech therapy (really more for language skills b/c sometimes he struggles w/ putting together thoughts and words that would be considered ordinary). However, it's as if ADD was/is the sole reason he was struggling. Again, this year in his co-op classes, soccer, boy scout camp etc., it's a constant probing of "does he have a hard time understanding directions?"; "he just can't sit still"; "he's disruptive to the others".
In homeschooling him this year, there is most certainly a possible compoment of ADD but he also seems to understand, comprehend and process things sooooooo verrrrrrrry slowwwww. Not to mention the retention factor.
So many people say kids w/ ADD are usu. pretty smart but have a hard time focusing. Well, my guy has a hard time focusing but he also seems to have a hard time really learning info, retaining it etc. Learning does not come easy for him AT ALL!
So, I guess my questions are, could it be "just ADD?" When/how do you know it's something beyond ADD, immaturity, being a boy? When do you decide more testing is warranted? I have a hard time accepting a diagnosis from someone that sees my child in a controlled environment for a max of 3 hours. Of course thru public school it's free but even if we spent hundreds, if not thousands, from an outside professional, no one knows him like me. The whole thought of that process in and of itself seems so exasperating and overwhleming to us both.
Thoughts? I'd love to hear "he'll outgrow this..." 
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Kathryn in TX
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KC in TX
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| Posted: July 06 2010 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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Sometimes, my son takes forever to process directions. Also, at times even if the person giving instructions (mainly me) thinks it's been broken down into small enough segments for him to process and then follow through on, it may not have been broken down into small enough pieces.
For instance, putting away clothes seems like an easy task to give him, but I have to be very direct and break it down into: Pick up this pile of your clothes, put the pants in the pants drawer, shirts in the shirts drawer, etc. Of course, now it's better but it was difficult for me to see that I was not breaking it down enough for him especially as he has motor planning issues. He can't figure out what his steps need to be to do a task.
Not sure how much that helped you...
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Kathryn
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| Posted: July 06 2010 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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Yes, KC, we've been told as well to only give him 2-3 step instructions at a time even from the speech evaluator. In fact, he has progressed from following 2 step directions to 3 step directions in the therapy this year. It's just so amazing that at age 2 1/2, his sister can follow multi-step directions signficantly easier than he can at age 10.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 06 2010 at 11:46pm | IP Logged
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I don't know a lot about it.. but from dealing with some children of friends and other places.. Aspergers has traits similiar to ADD but might fit what you're dealing with better.. or it might not.. just thought I'd toss that out as something you might want to look at, give you something new to check into.
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Michiel
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| Posted: July 07 2010 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
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And it might have something to do with central auditory processing disorder, something that may be affecting my son, but which we have not tackled yet.
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lovemy4
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| Posted: July 19 2010 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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Well, your son seems a lot like my son who is 7. My has been diagnosed Aspergers and bordeline ADD.
I don't think / know how the Aspergers bit fits in. But, I know with ADD learning IS more difficult because it takes the ability to focus and process the material in order.
My son is slightly above avg. intelligence but more complexed subjects like Math he is way below average. I think it's b.c. there are more complexed steps involved in Math that must be done in order... (don't have anyone official telling me this though)
HTH
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Kathryn
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| Posted: July 19 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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I have checked the Asperers and autism spectrum symptoms and honestly, none of those really fit. The main issue with his therapy have been the expressive and receptive language skills. His seem to be...not always up to his age level I guess. He says "that thing" "ummm ummm" "you know" and many times has a struggle finding the word for what most of us would consider common words. For example, the therapist asked him to name 6 animals you see at the zoo and really struggles with naming those animals and the word recall. He might say "uhh...that striped animal that looks like a uhh...horse..umm, ummm...oh yeh, a zebra!"
I guess I just wonder how much is ADD (and possibly needs to be medicated) and how much is immaturity (and doesn't need to be medicated) and how much is a processing disorder and how much is a true language delay (that might need more therapy which is hendered sometimes by his lack of attention...ADD again?). Some days are better than others so why is that? I suppose those are all magical questions none of you can even answer since I really can't.
I think I really need to add more of this language building into his curriculum this year and am leaning more away from the workbooks for many things.  
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Michiel
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| Posted: July 19 2010 at 8:36pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn,
Strange as this might sound, as I also have a son with very similar problems (he is 9 and it is really hard to talk to him, as in concretely, as you so well describe) I wonder if things will just work themselves out. If, when all is said and done, our kids can read, write, do math, and have curiosity and know how to learn, they love God and are good and happy people, maybe that's it.
This is something I'm struggling with, so I'm mostly thinking aloud here, but I wanted to throw it out there. Maybe just to wait and see??????? It's hard, I know, with such ambiguous disabilities, but I really wonder what could help? If a disability got a name would it change anything?
If you're suspecting ADHD to be a possible culprit, then if you go ahead and try the meds, and they don't work or if you don't like the person your son becomes on them, you can take him off. It takes a day or two for the meds to get out of the system, and then it's like starting from scratch. At least that would answer one question.
And believe me, if ADHD meds helped my son (which they do tremendously) without nasty side effects (which they have) then I would have him on them, just as I would have him on insulin if he were diabetic.
Just throwing things out there......
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Kathryn
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| Posted: July 19 2010 at 8:57pm | IP Logged
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Hi Michiel,
May be I'm soooo anti-meds that I don't even really WANT to try. Plus, I've also felt there's "something more". Whether it is a processing disorder or language delay or really just immaturity, I've not wanted to do the meds. Plus, I've always "felt" that with something like diabeties it's definitive...here's a blood test, here's the results so you know EXACTLY why you're given the meds. ADD seems to be such a subjective diagnosis. Some friends say he's just immature, some friends say he's just a boy and some friends say he's fine. Then of course others (like the soccer coach and homeschool co-op teacher and speech therapist and piano teacher etc.) ALL would prob. LOVE for him to be on meds to tame him! That's when I wonder. But again, it just takes him a while to realllly process the directions and thoughts and ideas coming at him in those settings so is that really worth medicating? Again, same at home...sometimes I **NEED** him to be more "with it" b/c it makes my job sooo much harder.
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Michiel
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| Posted: July 20 2010 at 8:47am | IP Logged
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Kahtryn, I hear you. We have been on the meds roller coaster, and for my son ADHD meds DO help him SO MUCH, but he can't tolerate the side effects, so we work around it. But so many aspects of his life would be so much better if he could be on them. My dh feels exactly as you do about the subjectivity, and he is looking into a program that does brain scans which will show exactly which parts of the brain are out of whack. That would pinpoint exactly where the problem is. We haven't done it, and I don't know where dh learned about it, but some creative googling might get yo somewhere.
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| Posted: July 20 2010 at 10:30am | IP Logged
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Kathryn,
I have no gems of wisdom...just lots of empathy!! I have a 12 yo ds that is just now, I feel like, able to follow directions....and even then, he has to ask, “now what did you say?”  That is so frustrating for us high energy, get things done, kind of moms!! BUT....he is worlds better than he was just a few short years ago.
Many  !!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 20 2010 at 11:07am | IP Logged
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Meds for ADD/ADHD can be tricky.. yes some will prescribe and call it good if the kids then sit still.. but there are different meds some may work better than others.. they can be used as a tool.. allowing a child (or adult) to learn coping skills and then be able to wean off and retain the skills that means they can function without the meds..
It's not a case of no drugs or zombie on drugs.
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At_His_Feet
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| Posted: July 24 2010 at 6:59am | IP Logged
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I just wrote a lovely, long reply only to have lost it when I hit post. 
So here's the short version.
I have a ds 12 who has great difficulty following even a 2 step instructions at times. I have often wondered about ADD, but with 2 ds on the autism spectrum I just don't have the energy to go down that road. I just need to pray for more patience.
I've enjoyed reading your replies as it's great to know that my son isn't the only homeschooled boy not sitting quietly reading LOTR
Tricia.
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12stars
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| Posted: Aug 13 2010 at 8:00am | IP Logged
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My dd is 10 and she has ADD along with auditory processing disorder. It would take forever to do school with her. Every year I have tried to tailor our curriculum to her needs, sometimes it feels like we just backslide a lot. This year I pray that it will be a better year for her. It has been tough for her as she says she feels 'dumb' and I often tell her that God did not make her dumb. She is the sweetest of my daughters. My other two are sweet as well, but my dd is just a selfless kind person naturally. She puts others before herself and hardly ever complains.
I feel so bad that she feels the way she does, but recently she has been choosing to learn on her own over the summer. She has picked up tidbits here and there, for some reason she likes root words LOL.
So I will expound on that this coming year. There is a joy to learning that they need to find and know that it exists.
These children are time consuming and take up a lot of our energy, whereas the our other children that are more capable of being independent can fall in wayside because one can be so needy. We also have one on the spectrum, he has a really good memory so we shall see what comes of that this school year.
To OP don't feel alone and don't give up I know it seems daunting, but you have him home now and you can really work with his needs like no one else can. I know it is hard and it can be emotionally draining. He will benefit from you and you from him.
Lots of hugs
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Karen T
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| Posted: Aug 14 2010 at 1:18pm | IP Logged
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Michiel wrote:
?
If you're suspecting ADHD to be a possible culprit, then if you go ahead and try the meds, and they don't work or if you don't like the person your son becomes on them, you can take him off. It takes a day or two for the meds to get out of the system, and then it's like starting from scratch. At least that would answer one question.
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I know I am very late in responding to this, but just saw it and I would strongly caution against "trying out" meds for ADD. Please read Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax before going this route. Public schools routinely "diagnose" ADD and send kids to the pediatrician for drugs. Most Peds aren't qualified to diagnose ADD but try the drugs "just to see" and voila, most kids DO focus better on them, even kids who had NO symptoms of ADD in the first place! But then, when you take them off, the meds have altered their brain chemistry, sometimes permanently, so they can no longer behave normally without them.
I know many kids have been helped by these drugs but I feel there are just WAY too many side effects, many of them longterm and presently unforeseen, to use them indiscriminately.
That book is not just on ADD but there is one chapter that deals heavily with the whole medication thing so you could just skim that part. Dr. Sax's other book Why Gender Mattersis also excellent.
Karen
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Kathryn
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Thanks for the continued replies and support and information. I will check out those books.
Also, I met with a lady that will be teaching at their homeschool classes this year taht's called their "inclusion specialist". I think it's her job to help those kids that may be have some difficulties in one way or another. Just from talking with her I feel sooo much relief that she could practically "read" my son from the way I described him to her. I kept going "YES! YES! YES!" She really seemed to clue in on the things that are red flags to me and already is discussing things we can do to help him. I was really considering dropping these homeschool classes for him but really didn't want to so I feel encouraged for those classes as well as our instruction at home. I still need to work on my patience level with him though.  However, I feel like after meeting with this lady and once the homeschool classes start up, there will be some avenues that will help.
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Michiel
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| Posted: Oct 04 2010 at 5:36pm | IP Logged
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Late reply, but info just in: My son scores in the 1%ile in processing speed. After looking online for help, it seems that ONE direction at a time works. Same with worksheets. One question at a time. Doing it this way, it seems to be helping.
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Michiel
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: Slow processing? ADD?
