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lapazfarm
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. If not, then please feel free to move it. My dd is 4 years old. We adopted her from the state when she was three. She comes from a background of abuse and neglect (hence the special needs designation). Overall she is a happy, sweet, intelligent child, and her transition to our home has been relatively smooth, though sometimes I suspect mild fetal alcohol effect-lack of cause and effect thinking, etc.
Anyway, the one problem I have that I cannot seem to address is that she is often just plain mean. I don't know how else to put it, really. She hits, she picks on the animals, she says mean things, she is sneaky, and she absolutely cannot get along with my 2 yo grandson. I have to keep my eye on her constantly or keep them seperated, which is difficult seeing as I keep him and his infant brother 3 days a week. I know the root of it is in her earlier abuse, but I am baffled as to how to turn her little heart. I do lots of pre-teaching, time-outs, time-ins, etc, but she continues the mean behaviors. I've read lots of parenting books, but none of them talk of turning the heart-only of managing behaviors. I want more for her than that. How does one teach kindness, compassion, caring, love...all the things that have always come naturally to my other dc?
Any advice and prayers would be appreciated.
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Theresa
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mary
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have you read anything about rad (reactive attachment disorder)? i've heard that a fair number of adopted kids suffer from this disorder because they and failed to attach to a primary caregiver within the first year of life. i know that one of the main effects is lack of empathy which would translate into 'mean child.' i would imagine if you googled up RAD, you could see if it fits and perhaps it might direct you with regard to how to handle such a child.
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Victoria in AZ
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I have a friend that has adopted three separate times. With the most recent dd, the friend was telling me how mean the child was to her slightly older siblings.
What surprised me is that my friend said one of the other adopted daughters had also been "mean" when she first arrived a few years ago. She is now a sweetheart.
Within months I watched the youngest dd change into a happier little girl, though she still has sibling issues. I don't know much, but wanted to share that it seems normal and can change.
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Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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Rachel May
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Theresa,
Thank you for starting this thread!
One of the most difficult behaviors for me is meanness because I simply don't understand it. My husband and I were having a conversation the other day about how to train away this behavior as we are both completely baffled about how to deal with it. Our kids aren't mean often, but you know how from time to time they do things for no other reason than to make another sibling unhappy? We're having more and more of that lately. I keep thinking if there were a way to train in the virtue, but I need a plan, approach, something....
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Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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Marybeth
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I wonder if jealousy is the root to this problem? I am sure she realizes the love you have for your grandchildren and can't comprehend how you can love them and her at the same time. I would recommend The Primal Wound as an excellent post adoption book. It is hard reading as a parent but hopefully will allow you to gain some insight into your child.
I recently took an attachment class on-line for our credit hours for our next adoption. They stated attachment issues can come up at any point in an adoptee life. It can be with no warning or around certain dates and/or events. The class offered signs, triggers and ways to cope as a family.
Feel free to PM me if you are interested in the class/website. It is a great resource and allows you to go at your own pace.
Are there any post adoption support groups through your agency? Our agency offers classes which help birthmothers, adoptive families, adopted children and adult adoptees on a broad range of topics.
I will certainly keep you in my prayers.
Marybeth
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lapazfarm
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I am familiar with RAD and do not feel this is the issue with dd. She is attached, has good eye contact, etc. However, with older child adoptions, there is bound to be at least some level of attachment issues, while not necessarily full-blown RAD.
I'm sure jealousy has its part to play. She is constantly trying to prove to me how much "better" she is than my grandson-VERY competitive.
We have had pretty good training in our adoption classes, etc. But again, mostly they talk about causes and ways of managing the behaviors-logical consequences, etc. I want to go beyond management and somehow instill the virtue of kindness in this child. But how do you change a heart?
Like Rachel said, I just don't get meanness. And I sure could use a plan.
And thanks for the prayers.
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Theresa
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momwise
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My ds and granddaughter are 2 years apart and I have such a problem with how they treat each other. They too are very competitive. As my ds gets older and matures, I can see him trying harder (we talk a lot about virtures and he wants to try)to get along and turn the other cheek but most of the time they have a big problem getting along and I've seen my granddaughter do some mean things when I'm not supposed to be looking. I'll be interested to see the advice you get.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Taffy
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Theresa,
My guess is that your dd is getting some kind of positive feedback out of being mean. It could be something like enjoying the looks on the animal's or person's face after she has done something mean. It could be the attention she's getting. It could be that on some level she actually enjoys the punishment that she receives for being mean. At any rate, it's something to investigate.
If she's having trouble understanding cause and effect, this may mean that you have to change the correction method that you're already using. Any correction that she receives must be immediate and appropriate. You probably already know this but thought I'd state it anyway. My oldest is PDD and we had a terrible time with him and his younger brother when he was younger. With CONSTANT vigilance and consistent responses ds finally understood. Now, they are best friends.
As for understanding the "spirit" of why one should be good, I think that reading and discussing books that exemplify the importance of being good is a good way to go. Also, making sure that lots of positive attention is given when dd is caught being nice.
If your dd does have FAE, this may be a very long road. As you know, judgement is often impaired with this disorder. This is why teaching that the rewards for being good are better than the rewards for being bad is SO important.
I also think that reading the Bible and discussing our faith is important in developing goodness in our children. I've been reading the Book of James lately and there is so much in there as to how to be a good christian. The New Testament is so full of explanations of what God wants and expects of us.
Well, that's my two cents and it's probaby worth that much too. I hope that something I wrote is helpful and, if not, I hope that the answer is presented to you soon.
Cheers,
Liz
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ALmom
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I don't really have any experience with special needs - or with the unique challenges you face - but for whatever it is worth, I can share some of what has helped in our house.
When we have had to deal with meanness in our house, it usually stems from pent up frustration and anger in the child doling out the hurt. Since I have a firey temper, I understand that the anger can well up in intensity without seeming to give warning - but it does not excuse me or the person doing the hurting from acting on the welled up anger so it doesn't change the need for consequences. However, calmness in applying consequences suited to the child and situation go a long way. It really is reassuring to the angry child as well. I will even give myself a time out if frustration starts to build (its like an early warning sign). It is almost a standard joke that mom's like time-outs for themselves. It isn't a punishment to send myself to my room - it is a means to help me cope for a few minutes with emotions.
For whatever it is worth, here is how we have handled it - I immediately attend to the hurt child - this way the hurting child is not achieving attention from bad actions (However, I do have to be careful not to jump to early conclusions if I saw nothing and one child is crying - sometimes there can be some very good actors that love to get another in trouble so if I am uncertain, then I act to correct what I saw myself, attend to any immediate necessities like seperating fighting dc or putting an immediate end to hurtful words or actions. Then, after a brief cooling off period, I allow each to speak their piece and try to act as translator between the 2 dc so that they work out their differences within my presence. Most of the time, one child interpreted an action of another dc as intentional (when it was accidental) or one dc thougt they had communicated something and didn't get their point across or someone egged someone else on to beyond the breaking point. Once both dc have worked out their differences (and I require the communication to occur in front of me until both are happy), I generally have some clue as to what was at the heart of the problem and I speak to each child privately before letting them run off to play again. I might be able to give strategies for coping - like the ability to move a game to my presence if someone is consistently ignoring requests kindly given to stop something that is annoying - ie they don't tattle but they allow it to be drawn to my attention so I can intercede before they lose their cool and deck their brother. Or realizing that they are reaching the boiling point, and allowing them to retreat to a room or private space without being hounded without relief. I may need to discuss with the "victim" the importance of not provoking to anger and ways to learn when brotherly teasing in fun has gone too far - reminding them that if both are no longer having fun then the particular activity must immediately stop (ie play wrestling or a tickling match may be fun for both for a while but if one wants to stop - then it is time to stop).
I also realize that if I lose my cool and slam a door, my dc learn to do this from me - so I have to acknowledge my own sin in this as well, and compassionately share my life long struggle with temper and some of the things to do to help. I try to confess my wrong to my dc immediately and also try to correct any unkind words immediately - even if it is an immediate statement "unkind words are not allowed in this house" and teach them to rephrase something if necessary. "You are mean" might have to be rephrased to " "I don't like you doing that. Please stop now." Sometimes we have to patiently model and correct over and over before it becomes second nature in our house. Most of the time "meanness" is unintentional because the dc is so immature that they haven't learned exactly how to express themselves in a way to be heard. We have to teach them how to communicate their likes and dislikes, frustrations and fears and needs but all in a way that respects the others in the household. Have you noticed how difficult a very young child becomes just before they learn to talk? I, imo, think this is all part of the same learning process. Ignoring the unkind actions because of empathy for whatever has gone before is really not helpful. Tempering the way we teach the communication skill considering the past would certainly be in order - don't we do that according to the individual child as well.
Sometimes, dc tease out of lack of self-confidence. It still is no excuse for teasing and I require an immediate end to it. But then I can work quietly without dc connecting the misbehavior to any changes that would seem to reward. For example, I might make mental notes and then make a point to remember in the future. Ie dc needs more regular meals, a period of quiet time, more attention from me that is positive, something at which he/she can shine, more physical contact in terms of holding, hugs, kisses, etc. I may need to make more time for private conversations.
I don't know if this helps - but it does seem to gradually make life more pleasant for everyone here.
I know as a child, my temper sometimes scared me - but I had no clue how to control it. I needed an adult to guide me in how to handle anger. I needed to be able to communicate my needs and have an adult who would really listen and help me - so that the anger didn't build up to the point of a time bomb. However, I was never helped when my explosive anger was ignored and without consequence. I became even more frightened. Neither did it help for an adult to respond in anger - but calm consequences coupled with a loving adult that would listen and guide - that gets you to the point of growth.
Janet
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Rachel May
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On Elizabeth's site she has this article about Kindness which recommends a book by Father Lovasik.
Janet, you had some good points for me. The child that I have the most trouble with in general is also the one who has the most problems with meanness. Once I sat down to think about it, I began to wonder if it's not being learned from me!  I have a slow fuse, but tend to explode, and this one child is the one who generally sends me over the edge.
Possibly if I am able to show that child more kindness, it will be learned. WE do read lots of books and saint stories with good examples and try to avoid the bad examples. I wonder though sometimes if it's getting through or if I'm planting seeds and waiting and waiting for them to grow.
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Willa
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Dear Theresa,
I just read a book by Dr Ray Guarendi and he says parents don't always have to "get" a behavior to improve it. That sounds obvious when I type it out, but I think it's something to remember. Your influence and YOUR kindness will surely affect her positively in the long run.
Even without RAD, it sounds like she has seen lots of hurtful things modelled and it might take some time to overcome it.
Aidan wasn't adopted but he spent most of his 15 months in the hospital with adults inflicting pain on him on a daily basis. Of course these were well meaning health professionals but from his crib it must have felt quite incomprehensible and pretty much like abuse. He went through a very mean stage between ages 2 and 3. He would bite and pinch HARD. No intervention seemed to work at all. He had cognitive delays which made cause and effect unclear to him, so discipline was not very effective.
It took him a long time to get past it but eventually he did. By the time his brother was born when he was 3.5 he had stopped. When he's been in the hospital he goes through a period afterwards where he does rather intense medical play. For example, he'll come up and hit our knee with a hammer or "start an IV" with some kind of stick. I've learned to watch for it! So I think what kids experience does come out in how they act, but the effect goes away over time. And he can play pretty roughly with his older siblings, but he's really kind to his younger brother.
I think perhaps you are already doing most or all of the right things and it will just take some time. In the meantime, retraining behavior could well end up retraining her heart since she is so young still.
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Willa
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lapazfarm
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Thanks, Ladies. You have given me alot to think about. Do any of you know of some age appropriate (4) story books (other than the Bible and saint stories and the Fr Lovasik book)that specifically show a character being kind? I think that might help alot, for her to have some good examples to copy (other than her older brothers and sisters). Then when she is having inappropriate behaviors I can say "Remember in that book... what did so-and-so do when she felt this way?" etc.
Hey, now I'm getting an idea...We may do a mini-unit-study on kindness for Lent! Got any suggestions?
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Theresa
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Rachel May
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I love the way you think! I started pulling out books right away.
Here are two that my 5 yo loves, and we will start reading tomorrow 
Angelina on Stage. Angelina is very loving toward her cousin Henry, becomes jealous and considers leaving him to suffer, but chooses to help him and they both end up very happy.
Another Mouse to Feed by Robert Kraus and ill by Jose Aruego and Ariane Dewey
The mouse parents feel like they have enough children (only 31) when a new mouse shows up at their door. They adopt him, but the parents get overwhelmed so the little mice all chip in to help take provide for the family and take care of the little mice while the parents recouperate. I bought this one used since it's OOP, but we just love it.
Also by Jose Aruego is A Crocodile's Tale which is sort of an Aesop type fable. Juan helps a trapped crocodile who promises him a ring but then decides to eat him. A used hat and something else encourage the crocodile to eat Juan because people are not kind. In the end a monkey saves Juan, and in the final picture you can see that Juan does repay the monkey with kindness. I found that one at a library sale.
OK, enough of me living my children's librarian fantasy, I want to see what other people suggest.
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Rachel
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momwise
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lapazfarm wrote:
| Hey, now I'm getting an idea...We may do a mini-unit-study on kindness for Lent! Got any suggestions? |
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I'm going to jump on that bandwagon too  I found a few titles at the library by keyword but haven't previewed them yet:
Andy and the Lion....this one is in FIAR, Vol. 3
In this retelling of Androcles and the Lion, Andy meets a lion on the way to school and wins his friendship for life by removing a thorn from his paw. Brothers : a Hebrew legend Hard times on adjoining farms bring about parallel acts of kindness and a celebration of "how good it is for brothers to live together in friendship."
Snow White and Rose Red A bear, befriended by two sisters during the winter, returns one day to reward them royally for their kindness.
Children of the king When the king comes to adopt some children, they are all too busy trying to impress him with their talents, except for one little girl who offers only her kind heart.
A thread of kindness : a tzedaka story When a mysterious old man gives Avraham a choice between the blessing of six years of wealth now, or six years of wealth in old age, the man takes the question to his wife. Esther, as wise as her namesake, chooses to take the wealth immediately, and begins a thread of kindness and charity, which reaches throughout their community.
Glenna's seeds Thsi sweet, whimsical picture book illustrates how one tiny, random act of kindnesss transforms an empty street into a place full of colorful flowers, thoughtful neighbors, delicious food, and happy feelings.
Good King Wenceslas / John M. NealeThis story, based on actual events that occurred in the tenth century, tells of a kind-hearted king and his page who set out to help a poor man on a cold winter’s night and experience a miracle along the way.
I plan to look up the "Kindness" chapter in Character Building by David Isaacs later today and I'll let you know what I find.
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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mumofsix
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Theresa: my fourth child was adopted from a Chinese orphanage. She was treated very kindly, but they were terribly understaffed for the number of children, so most of her first year was spent in a cot or on a potty-chair with zero stimulation.
She has had attachment issues, but they have manifested more as lying and disobedience (always sneaky, never openly defiant) than unkindness.
We have had an enormous breakthrough since she made her first Confession and first Holy Communion in September last year. In those months she has developed a conscience, something I worried she would never do: I delayed her reception of the sacraments because I thought she was just not ready. Now the undesirable behaviours have lessened dramatically, I can appeal to her conscience in a way that seemed pointless before and she is visibly making a real effort. The priest she goes to Confession to (usually every week, of her own accord entirely) is very gentle and holy and always praises her warmly for going to Confession. She loves praise, and I praise her whenever I can which is often these days, thank God.
The other things that have helped are reading the lives of the saints. She loves the Mary Fabyan Windeatt books, especially those about nun saints. (Yes I know some find them too saccharine, but I honestly don't think anything would be too saccharine for this dd  .) She often says she wants to be a nun. She knows an expemplary nun from the Community of Saint John whom we meet at Walsingham every year and who is a wonderful example to her. She is learning French so that she can speak to Sister Marie in her own language.
All this to say that though the ideas of attachment specialists may well have a lot to offer, so does our Church. I have seen such a change in my daughter since she started receiving the sacraments. So will you in due course, I am sure.
Jane.
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lapazfarm
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Jane,
Thank you for that. I really do belive that she will heal in time and that the answer has to lie within our Church and its teachings. We have done all the "therapy" we can stand and now I am seeking alternatives, which is why I posted here about this.
I knew you ladies would understand and offer suggestions quite different from those offered by the therapists! I am glad you mentioned about reception of the sacraments.We are currently preparing dd for Baptism, which I am hoping will offer a source of graces and strength for her.
And we are off to the library today to see if we can round up some of the books mentioned by Gwen and Rachel. When I told dh about the unit-study on kindness he thought it was a great idea. I will let you know what else I find.
Thanks again!
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Theresa
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momwise
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I had no luck with Character Building. It doesn't include a specific chapter for kindness. I also checked Vol 1 & 2 of FIAR and had no luck.
Sociability is the virtue that "makes good use of and discovers ways of getting together with differenct people; he manages to communicate with them through the genuine interest he shows in them ... " David Isaacs.
It is helpful to me to note that Isaacs lists this as one of the last virtues to be developed, after nearly all the rest, at about age 13. That's because a good deal of the chapter deals with relationships outside the home and family. Of course by then, kindness should be firmly established (or as is sometimes the case around here, worked on frequently ).
Theresa,
did you find any of the books?
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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lapazfarm
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I printed up your post and took it to the library. They didn't have a single one! I did manage to find a used copy of Good King Winceslas at the Friends of the Library sale. My library stinks!
But, I did a search at my library and found these titles that might work:
Wolf's Favor by Fulvo Testa
Sukey and the Mermaid by R. San Souci
The Full Belly Bowl by WA Halperin
Kermit the Hermit by Bill Peet
I Did it, I'm Sorry by Caralyn Buener
Pinduli by Janell Cannon (Author of Stellaluna)
I checked them out but have not had a chance to pre-read them yet.
I am having a little trouble thinking of activities we can do (other than reading these books) that are specific to kindness. Maybe once I read them I will get some ideas.
Any thoughts on activities?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: mean child
