| Author | |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: April 12 2006 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
My oldest (8) struggles to remember basic facts. We've been working on basic addition for 3 years now and she has finally cemented up to 5+5, some doubles... but nothing else. She reverses many letters no matter how many times I tell her which way they go or special tricks to use. Spelling tricks? Forget it. Her spelling is horrible, even short words I've spelled for her 50 times in a month. She still asks what meal we are eating ("Is this lunch or dinner?"). Can't remember her birthday. Etc, etc. I always feel like I'm doing all her thinking for her. Things my 6yo and even my 3 year old are remembering.
Fast forward to last month. We went to a developmental optometrist who said she had convergence insufficiency and exotropia (an eye that wanders outward). A year ($$$$!!) of therapy and she should be good as new. 
I know some of you have done vision therapy. Have you noticed it helping? I'd love specifics. Could vision issues have anything to do with the poor memory?
Any other ideas about the memory? I worry that she'll be 25 and still not know her birthday!  Silly, I know. If that happens, so what? 
At least as far as math goes - she *gets* the idea behind math (i.e. what it means to add, or multiply) but is stumped by the facts. We are using MUS, the first program she likes (maybe because we stepped down a level)-- should I stay at the low level until she can learn the facts or is it OK to move on to harder math and hope that the facts catch up? Like before high school? 
Sorry this is rambly - I guess any reply having to do with any of these subjects would make me happy! 
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MichelleW
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 01 2005
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 947
|
| Posted: April 12 2006 at 1:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Amy,
This sounds just like my oldest son (almost 9yo). He is exotropic and my dh affectionately calls him "swiss cheese brain" (not to his face of course ).
We have done the vision therapy thing for 4 years. I do notice an improvement, but honestly, the stuff we do at home without paying anybody has been just as useful, if not more, than the "professional" therapy.
As far as everything else, let me just say that is DOES get better as they need the information. Two years ago, we decided that we just needed to accept his lack of memory as a fact of life and help him deal with it. We gave him tools to care for himself (chore charts, a little notebook of math facts, etc.) As the information became important to him he phased out the tool and started to use his own memory. He still has problems, but I guess they don't scare me any more. I know that in the end he will be ok.
We got him prismed glasses and that helped with the reading.
Vision definitely played a roll in memory, though I don't know how much of a player it was/is. When we did visual memory games with him, it did help. His spelling is actually good though. We use Sequential Spelling and it has worked well for him. I let him move forward in Math, even if he doesn't have the facts down, because otherwise he gets bored and then forget it! If he is not interested he remembers even less and it becomes an exercise in obedience and perseverance instead of in Math...
I don't know how much any of this helps, but know that you are not alone. He and I will pray for you and yours.
Michelle
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: April 12 2006 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for the tip about Sequential Spelling, I have heard of it but never looked at it until now. They have a sample lesson on their website. I can see how that would help my dd for the short term - I bet she could spell some of the harder words by the 5th day, yet I know from experience that a month later when we would be working on "en" words instead of "in" words, for example, she would have forgotten 95% of the "in" words she learned the first week. Did you find this happening to your son?
So often my thoughts run along the lines of "why bother, it's such a waste of time!" As in "why bother to do hundreds of hours of spelling only to forget it all," "why have we been doing math every day for three years and are still doing basic addition!" etc. Whoops, sorry, I think I started whining there, lol. I guess I just wish there were some short cut or way I could know what and how to teach this one so I don't feel like all I'm doing is spinning my wheels while my other children go without my attention.
I'm going to try the sample week of Sequential Spelling though and see how it goes! 
Thanks again for your thoughts, and especially your prayers! I'll offer up my prayers and frustrations for you!
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MichelleW
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 01 2005
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 947
|
| Posted: April 12 2006 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Amy,
I was so frustrated with spelling with him, and reading, that I completely stopped trying spelling for 2 years! (not reading, we kept muddling through on that one, but he showed almost no improvement for what seemed like forever).
I bought Sequential Spelling thinking that it might work for him, but I didn't use it with him right away. I started my younger children on it first. Once they reached Explode the Code 4, I started Sequential Spelling. Several months ago he started asking to do spelling. I would not let him, because he is not to ETC 4 yet. He asked and asked. Finally he started spelling his little sister's words for her if she seemed to be taking too long. I finally gave in. It just suddenly became important to him to spell well. I have no explanation at all. I do know that part of what appealed to him were the patterns, but I don't know why he wanted to do this so badly.
I also wanted to let you know that he still does not know the days of the week. Every day he asks what day today is because he has finally associated certain things to certain days (no meat on Friday during Lent, Olivia can sleep in the boys's room Friday night, church on Sunday). Monday mornings he still asks, "What day is it? Do we go anywhere on Monday? Will tomorrow be Friday? How many more days until Friday?"
On the other hand, he is quite an engineer. He can build anything and the principles of eletricity and other sciences are so very easy for him. It was hard to discover this, because he does not communicate very well, but once we figured this out he has blown us away. In my mind he is sort of the quintessential "absentminded professor." If I were measuring his ability in spelling tests and math facts, he would fall woefully short. When I measure his abilities by his interests and accomplishments I believe he is a little genius.
He is certainly my most frustrating child in so many ways. He can be an "attention sucker" and so I have to be careful to schedule time with him and time without him. Praying with him in the morning has helped as well. I think it helps to focus him.
I have a friend who would describe her son this way as well. They had him tested for ADD and now he is on medication. She is very happy that they did this. Todd and I are not sure what to do, and this is one of those on-going debates we have regularly. We usually lean towards let's just keep watching him, but occassionally we wonder if he would be happier on medication...
Michelle
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: April 15 2006 at 12:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Amy,
We have done vision therapy with most of ours. We had alternate suppression, convergence insufficiency and focusing difficulties along with a number of other things like visual memory, visual closure, left/right awareness, etc. For one child we noticed such rapid improvement that we were stunned. She has no residual problems and the therapy we did made quite a difference in her life.
Another child, did not have the suppression detected at the beginning of therapy and thus did not get that corrected, although we worked on the other issues including visual memory. His visual memory improved but reversals, etc. are still there and he still struggles. We just found that he still suppresses - and to be honest we are exhausted with the struggles. We plan to refresh ourselves and then work very hard on the suppression this summer before there are any school demands. With his sister with severe suppression, we simply did nothing but therapy for school for the time she was in therapy. In summary, things were a bit slower with him - in therapy 3 different times. This last time they figured out that he actually suppresses but now we lost our local therapist so all therapy is on us (driving 3 hours for therapy is impossible) and our developmental optometrist is working with us. He has gained each time - but I suspect he has continued to have problems because of the suppression. If after getting suppression corrected and finishing up, if we don't have the kind of improvement we saw with our dd, I think we'll just have to accept it.
A child can have general processing problems that are not strictly visual memory, so ask your developmental optometrist and/or therapist your questions. They should be able to help you. Our therapist gave us many real life activities that were good (our dc had a lot of trouble coordinating both sides of the body and certain sports like soccer help - so does piano).
I know that our therapy was invaluable. However, at some point it becomes so very expensive for so little return - some things are easier to correct than others. Also, we have asked if gains would be permanent if we quit at the moment or took a break. A breather while doing just fun stuff at home in a sneaky way to improve skills is helpful if you don't lose any ground by doing it.
We have actually purchased red/green glasses, the Bernouli cards and focus on the Marsden Ball for ours that are not in therapy but either waiting for therapy or taking a breather (by choice or because of no therapist available). My dh also invents tons of games after talking to the developmental optometrist that works with our dc (and me as I also have the problem but kids are getting priority for therapy).
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmom
Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
| Posted: April 15 2006 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I was going to write about memory problems, but saw it here and thought I'd piggyback on this topic.
I have seen some memory problems in my 6yo. Since she is so young and only doing kindergarten work, it doesn't show up in academic areas so much as normal life. She can't remember her birthday either. We were amazed and a bit embarassed to find recently that she really can't say the entire Hail Mary alone. We say the Hail Mary daily, so I assumed she'd get it by osmosis at a very young age like my other girls did. Even after quite a few sessions of working with her to learn that prayer, she still forgets sections unless she is prompted. Reading is going very slowly for her, and it seems like she just can't turn words into sight words because of her poor memory. No matter how many times she sees simple words, it's like she's seeing them for the first time. I'm not worried about the reading progression since she's only 6, but it still seems indicative of her poor memory.
I am convinced that vision is not the problem since many of her "memory problems" have to do with oral memory, like in the Hail Mary example. Have any of you had a child with very poor memory who exhibits no signs of vision problems? Does it sometimes get better with age? Have you done anything to help a child with this difficulty?
Thanks for any ideas you may have.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
akorn
Forum Newbie
Joined: Jan 03 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: April 18 2006 at 1:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My ds(almost 9) has had memory issues as well because he has had to take medications etc... since his birth. He is often forgetting the basics and knows it.This has caused him some emotional greif. He has a sister who is only 11 months older than him and she does everything very well except piano, art, and sporting activities. Fortunately, this he does well in. We tend to focus on his positive issues and just practice his weaknesses without dwelling on them. He does reversals, can't spell or write, doesn't know any of his math facts and reads poor orally. He does read well in his head and can narrate better from reading his stories than from having to narrate after me reading to him. It can be frustrating. We actually use his sister for orally narrating some of the stories I read and then he repeats in his own words the same story after she does it, that way he hears the story twice in two different ways. I have also found that since he has turned 8 yrs. old he is capable of better memory just because of maturity. He has finally become ready to remember. I figure each child is on their own time schedule and I need to be more patient. Those facts will click and other memory skills will stick when he is ready. We just keep plugging and I no longer get frustrated.
Anna
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tracym
Forum Pro
Joined: Nov 05 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 214
|
| Posted: April 25 2006 at 9:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi. My oldest ds just turned 9. I have had concerns as well about him. He is doing a listening therapy program to help with sensory issues. We also had his eyesight checked(but not at a specialist). I just took him to a friend who helps evaluate reading and writing. He also has trouble with basic facts, spelling and other areas. I have seen some improvements lately. We have been working more slowly and I also realize that he has strenghts in other areas so that is what we are looking at. He is not on any medication and we really don't want to go that route. He does know math just not quickly. I also see my 6 yr. old dd making connections that he is just getting-which is fine but a few times he has got upset when she knew the answer for him. Anyways I don't know what the answer is but it just sounded like several of you know what I am going through also so I thought I'd post.
Tracy M.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Taffy
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 05 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1567
|
| Posted: April 25 2006 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Tracy,
I'm just curious, what listening program are you using? We've just purchased the Listening Program ourselves (ds is VERY sound sensitive). We've already done the Berard Method of AIT, Earobics (Step 1 and Step 2) and FastForWord...
What are your thoughts regarding the listening program?
__________________
Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
Susan's Soliloquy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tracym
Forum Pro
Joined: Nov 05 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 214
|
| Posted: April 26 2006 at 5:10am | IP Logged
|
|
|
We are doing a listening program called Vital Sounds. Every 2-3 weeks the occupational therapist gives us a new cd for ds to listen to. We had to buy the headphones(which he rarely uses) and we can borrow the cd's for free from the hospital. I have seen some definite improvements as far as calming effects, helps him sleep better and other areas. We started it last summer and then stopped at 12 weeks where I noticed a regression of sorts. Then I talked to the OT again who had me fill out a questionnaire. The music is supposed to be put in a certain order for each child depending on what they find. Since we started back 6 weeks ago -I have noticed changes in him again. It just seems to have an overall calmong effect that lasts and somehow helps him deal with situations differently then he used to. One thing is they are supposed to listen to the music out of order so they don't just get used t hearing the same order-that is a real struggle-not as bad as at first though. Anyways I have been pretty pleased with it and found it to be such a small investment.
Tracy M. mom to ds9, dd6, ds4, and ds1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Taffy
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 05 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1567
|
| Posted: April 26 2006 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We were going to try Vital Sounds but, as we live in a very rural area and would have to find an OT who would work privately with us (hard to do in Saskatchewan), we decided to try the Listening Program instead. It should arrive by the weekend. I'm eager to get started! I'm getting tired of ds leaving the room with his hands covering his ears 
__________________
Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
Susan's Soliloquy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: April 26 2006 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
teachingmom wrote:
I am convinced that vision is not the problem since many of her "memory problems" have to do with oral memory, like in the Hail Mary example. Have any of you had a child with very poor memory who exhibits no signs of vision problems? Does it sometimes get better with age? Have you done anything to help a child with this difficulty?
Thanks for any ideas you may have. |
|
|
I think you have two different things going on here: auditory memory and visual memory. And I think that's pretty unusual and especially challenging. We have visual memory problems with some of the children in this house. I took the "wait and see, it will improve with age" approach the first time. Now, at nearly fourteen, we're working hard to remediate. Visual memory affects reading, spelling, and even grammar. If you have good visual memory, you just instincively KNOW where to put the commas and the quotation marks. Without it, it doesn't matter how much reading you've done, it just doesn't sink in. So much that most children learn by osmosis in a rich print environment, kids with deficient visual memory miss.
My ds-7 is struggling with visual memory as well. I've never seen a child work so hard at learning to read, been so motivated, and progress so slowly. I'm going to get special tutoring. I'll never take the laid back approach I did again.
Stephen is also having trouble memorizing prayers, even everyday prayers. And I hadn't really connected the two. I think I'll do a little informal testing and I'll get back to you.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maureen
Forum Rookie
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: April 26 2006 at 8:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth wrote:
| Now, at nearly fourteen, we're working hard to remediate. Visual memory affects reading, spelling, and even grammar. If you have good visual memory, you just instincively KNOW where to put the commas and the quotation marks. Without it, it doesn't matter how much reading you've done, it just doesn't sink in. |
|
|
I have a 14 yo dd who is greatly challenged in spelling, grammar, writing and reading. (She has always been an auditory learner.) Do you have any tips in how to improve in these areas? At this point she is unable to produce even a decent paragraph. How will I get her through high school?
__________________
Maureen, mom to 8 treasures
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmom
Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
| Posted: April 26 2006 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Elizabeth wrote:
| I think you have two different things going on here: auditory memory and visual memory. And I think that's pretty unusual and especially challenging. We have visual memory problems with some of the children in this house. I took the "wait and see, it will improve with age" approach the first time. Now, at nearly fourteen, we're working hard to remediate. Visual memory affects reading, spelling, and even grammar. If you have good visual memory, you just instincively KNOW where to put the commas and the quotation marks. Without it, it doesn't matter how much reading you've done, it just doesn't sink in. So much that most children learn by osmosis in a rich print environment, kids with deficient visual memory miss. |
|
|
Interesting connection, Elizabeth. I know my 9yo has visual memory difficulties, but I also think she has above average auditory memory. She had reading delays, but has been doing fine in that area for a few years now. But the spelling and grammar difficulties continue. I hadn't connected that my 6yo might have both those difficulties and the auditory limitations. That will be a challenge.
Interestingly, I just happened into a decision regarding my 6yo's reading lessons that might be very helpful in light of what you wrote. She got around 3/4 of the way through 100 Easy Lessons, but really struggled to read the longer passages after the first half of the book. Since dropping that, she has spent her reading lesson time reading simple books to me and working on her reading at the starfall.com website.
The other day, I suddenly remembered that I had Alphaphonics and it would be the perfect thing to pull out for her at this stage. After doing the first few lessons, I am struck by how similar the Alphaphonics method of teaching reading is to the AVKO Sequential Spelling method of teaching spelling. Since I've had such success with my 9yo and the AVKO Spelling, maybe Alphaphonics, with all the repetition and incremental word-building, will be helpful to my 6yo.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: Memory problems and vision therapy
