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4 lads mom
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Your very best resources for kiddos with math learning issues....my 11 yo ds has dyslexia, and we have hit the wall. We were cruising along with Saxon 54, and hit the lessons around the 60 mile marker....and he is shutting down. The problem is retrieving stuff from his short term memory..sigh....multiplication facts are beginning to be the resident monster in the house that sends him screaming!!  I thought we were making great progress with this one thing online...”Rocket Math” but he gets so far and shuts down.
Any software that is Mac compatible that would take some of the “emotion” out of this and is fun...keeps his interest....OR any other suggestions?
We are both feeling a bit overwhelmed.
Thanks!!
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:35am | IP Logged
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I have used the "Calculadder" with pretty good success here, especially for those students who just can't remember their facts. The key is consistency...do it every day and hopefully it will get into his long-term memory. I think the writing down of the answers helps,too, as it gives another "feedback" to the brain. I have not had much success with computer-based math facts quizzes for some reason.
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Caroline
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ElizLeone
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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I don't have answers for you, as I'm in the same boat.
Rocket Math looks interesting! It seems pretty classroom-oriented. I'd be curious to hear how you use it in the home setting.
My question is with a severely dyslexic/dyscalculic child, do the math facts ever get into long-term memory? We've been drilling addition facts (not subtraction or multiplication yet) for three years with my nine-year old. He still counts them out on his fingers every time, as his memory is so poor.
I'm very eager to hear the responses you get on this question, 4 Lads Mom.
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:49pm | IP Logged
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4ladsmom, I did also want to mention that we had to abandon Saxon for our older child who had math struggles. We tried Teaching Textbooks. This program was a little more straightforward than Saxon and less engineering oriented. It also has questions out of the SAT tests to help prepare students for that test. It really helped my daughter make progress in math.
Elizabeth, I don't specifically know about LD children, but I do know that for my non-LD learners there was quite a range of ages when they moved from "concrete" to "abstract" math conceptulization. "Concrete" learners need to physically count objects or have a visual representation which shows the physical objects (like, a picture of 5 birds on a branch with 3 more flying in to illustrate 5+3=8). Once a student moves into the "abstract" level, they can understand 3+5=8 written without any pictures or objects.
My special needs son (they can't really tell me anything about his learning needs!) is 8 almost 9 and is still in the concrete stage. He is learning his addition facts, but it's a slow go. We keep going back to counting of objects. We use two egg cartons cut down so each has ten spaces to visualize the problems. This helps him see, for example, that 7 + 8 can be thought of as 7+3+5=15 (we physically move three objects from one carton to another to "add up" to ten so he can see this). I'm noticing that he has the easier facts down now and seems to be moving on to "abstract" thinking with them, so I'm hopeful. I don't know if this apparent delay is related to his condition or not. One of my older dd's was still needing "concrete" visualizations for new concepts when she was in high school! My 7 yr-old ds, however, passed through the "concrete" stage before we began math instruction with him, I think! He has no trouble with abstract concepts.
So I think it is like reading....the age at which the ability to do certain math tasks "kicks in" varies widely from one child to another.
I do wonder if children with memory impairments should just go right to using calculators? We don't use them here until late high school, but I'm thinking if my son can't memorize the facts, I'll use a calculator with him in a year or two, as long as he understands the idea behind the operations (which he does). This would enable us to move on to higher math without being held back by memory issues. Right now, we're still slogging it out with the Calculadders, work sheets, flash cards, and manipulatives.
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Caroline
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ElizLeone
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I LOVE the egg carton idea, Caroline! I'm going to steal that! Thank you!!
I've wondered the same thing about the calculator.
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Anneof 5
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Only have a minute here but if you are considering it to be dyscalulia, they are way ahead of us in the UK on research and methods for dealing with it. Here is one site I found with a program, and I know there are more. Not sure how the money translates, etc. I have not had personal experience with it but some of it looks good. I have a 10yo ds who has major struggles with math (adhd, visual processing issues, possible FASD and those kids can have major problems with math).
http://dynamomaths.co.uk/
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melanie
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I don't have any great materials suggestions except to say that we have had the same issues, hitting walls in math, and mine eventually seems to move past it, often suddenly. All last year math was a struggle and nothing but frustration. At the beginning of this year he seemed to have forgotten what little he did know! But now he is actually making some progress, yay! I don't know why! 
To save him frustration, you might make shorter versions of those facts sheets , maybe just a few a day...
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Michiel
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I'll run up and get the title and author later (promise) but I got a book full of hundreds of math games to play with egg cartons, craft sticks, dice, cards, etc. Each game is different and each you can tailor for add, subtract, multiply, etc.....on to fractions and decimals, and critical thinking. Both my boys, one a math whiz, and the other still struggling with 2+3 LOVE IT. That is what they look forward to each day, which game mom will pull out of her hat. It really makes number drilling fun. I'll post later tonight with a link.
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Michiel
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
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As promised:
Mega Fun Math Games
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Michiel
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Michiel
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 6:19pm | IP Logged
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Drat. I'm rotten at links. I'll try again.
Mega-Fun Math Games
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Michiel
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Michiel
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 6:20pm | IP Logged
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The second time, I got it right. Ignore prior post. ;)
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4 lads mom
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| Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 7:53am | IP Logged
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Thanks,everyone......I think we need to ditch Saxon. The reason I used it was....it was here already....he was eager to use something that was “grade appropriate” after spending a long time not working at “grade appropriate” levels....and he really took off with it. BUT....the minute there is higher level “abstract” thinking, like what was so perfectly described by Caroline....he shuts down. This makes so much sense when I back out of my emotional state at the moment....and look at what is really going on. Gosh, it is hard when I am the perfect “schooly” kid.....I relished school, loved all of those tidy worksheets and got great grades....NOW....how much did I really learn??? Yeah.
This little guy, with his dyslexia and ADD has really stretched me, I am a better person because of his challenges....he is so creative and funny, my challenge is to find ways to help him learn that also works with my limited time to plan, with all of the medical challenges as well....such a tightrope!
Thanks so much for your input, I am checking out Math Games....pronto....and trying to breath deeply
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Angel
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You might also check out Making Math Meaningful, which we had to use (along with some Montessori) to get my dd over a hump with Saxon 5/4. If your ds has a hard time making the leap from concrete to abstract, he may just need more time to work with the concrete. That's how my dd is. Everything has to be hands on at first, and for a fairly long time, but eventually... she gets it. It took us a year and lots of creativity to get multiplying 2 digits by 2 digits (and I'm not sure we're entirely there yet either) and even the simplest sort of longer division was a nightmare.
The one problem I had with Making Math Meaningful was that the explanations for how to do bigger multiplication and division problems were so different than the usual rote-Saxon-type explanation -- which was how I learned -- that it took *me* a while to understand it. But upon reflection, doing math this way -- understanding the concrete before leaping to the abstract -- means that my dd actually understands what she's doing and why, whereas I have always just been following directions with no idea of why the directions worked.
Anyway, it might be worth looking at. 
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4 lads mom
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Thanks, Angela! I will look into it!
Also, I did some digging on “living math”, there was a thread a long time ago about using living books for math....I think we might back off the hard stuff for a while and let him relax and read some good books....and do some games.....I think this fits him better for right now. I couldn’t find the thread, but I did find this site that looks really good.....sort of like Charlotte Mason meets math with lots of resources...
Living Math
I’m going to be looking at this site quite a bit, I’ll let you know what becomes of it.....
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
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4ladsmom, I wrote a post yesterday (but I guess I forgot to actually post it  ) about Teaching Textbooks, which we used here with one child who had difficulty with math. We used the Algebra I, II, and Geometry books. They are much less engineering oriented than Saxon, and less intensive, but they cover the basics. They are set up for self-instruction. I liked that the author uses real SAT problems in the upper levels to prepare the students for the SAT. My daughter had a much better math experience with these books. I would caution, however, that I don't think they are a good choice for anyone who will go into a math-oriented field later on.
The series begins in 5th grade.
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Caroline
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Topic: Okay, throw it at me....
