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mom3aut1not
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We got our little guy's annual speech and language testing results back. He made a great deal of progress in most areas -- huge gains in some areas. We are very happy overall. Please thank God with us.
I do have some particular concerns. He made little if any improvement in a couple of areas, one of which is necessary for narrating. If he is read a simple, short (and I mean short and simple) paragraph without any pictures, he cannot answer even a simple question -- as in he didn't get a single answer correct and really couldn't answer at all. This is actually pretty congruent with my experience with him as well. However, this has a major impact on the sort of materials I can use with him.
This particular result made me ponder his curriculum. I am seriously considering next year's curriculum. I can't use books like Story of the World or Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans or even American History for Young Catholics 1. I also can't do WWE level 2 next year -- level 1 is very challenging for him, and I am pretty sure he won't be ready for level 2 by July. In fact, I am thinking about stopping the WWE1 narrations sometime soon; the language in the readings is too hard for him much of the time. I have also modified WWE's narration greatly. (I read a sentence and then ask him about it. It's quite hard for him.)
I am also seriously considering the idea of getting rid of my Living My Religion series. I love it and I saved it after using it with his sisters, but I can't see it working for him. Instead, I am thinking about making interactive notebooks (if I am creative enough) on specific areas as well as using Catholic Mosaic until he can at least read fluently. I am looking for materials I can use with him that fit his needs; this will be an ongoing project.
I am having to do some heavy thinking on what to do next year. Areas of special concern are social studies (should we do world history again or work on the fifty states or both?) and composition (seriously considering doing some version of the Classical Writing Primer).
Well, it's easy to see he wouldn't do well in school......
In Christ,
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Deborah
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Paula in MN
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I like the interactive notebook idea. You stated that he needs to see pictures in order to retain the information. Can you find pictures or make your own to go along with the history readings you already have? Or have him illustrate what he hears as you are reading to him?
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 Paula
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Taffy
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My son has been struggling with this problem for YEARS and it has seriously affected his education. Sadly, it has taken ma a LONG time to figure out how to overcome this but I think we finally have! Have you looked into Lindamood Bell's resources? Mary Ellen once suggested using the Visualizing and Verbalizing program. I looked into it and it was very promising but, unfortunately, too advanced for my son. But, there is now a primer to this program, Talkies, that is really helping us make some progress. I don't use it exactly as written but have combined it with LB's other language programs and he is finally making some real progress on this front and I can see us being able to use non-picture books by next year.
My son also had serious issues with listening as his hearing is over-sensitive. His increased speed with writing and typing is helping a lot too now as he's able to show that he has greater comprehension than I once thought. He works better with reading and writing versus oral narrating. I don't know if this is a factor for your son but thought I'd mention it in case it is.
Hope this helps some. I'll be watching this thread for other ideas too.
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mom3aut1not
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Paula,
Well, I might be able to use supplemental pictures to a text, but the picture to text has to be fairly high for him. It's worth pondering, tho'.
I have him illustrate some things, but I don't know that illustrating as I speak to him would help.
Thanks for the thoughts!
In Christ,
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Deborah
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mom3aut1not
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Taffy,
I have looked at the Lindamood Bell materials a bit. Maybe I should look again.
I do foresee him doing better with reading and writing than speaking. Now to get him to that point!
Yes, my son is sound-sensitive. Fortunately, his sensory issues are less than his youngest (and grown) sister. Very, very fortunately.
In Christ,
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Deborah
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Willa
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Deborah,
I know much less than you about this but how is his attention span for listening to the history? If he is listening in some way maybe the language patterns are soaking in even if he can't pick out and restate points.
I think I would go for continued exposure in the beautiful language but then repeat the key points I wanted him to remember, in order to build on that. There is even the traditional teaching device of memorization and recitation -- if you had a few sentences that you really wanted him to remember.
My high school history teacher taught note-taking by example. As he talked, he would write down what he wanted us to write down, on the board. It taught me a lot; it seems you could do something like that -- even read a passage through more than once, say what the key points are, have him write them down (if he writes that fluently) and then have a short review every day, etc. Then gradually "fade the prompts" over time. ,,, expect him to come up with more of his own choices of key sentences.
Some people do previews of narrations -- they go over the main ideas and names beforehand. If his auditory skills are weak maybe you could have flashcards or visuals for key ideas. You could ask him to hold up the flashcard when you come to the part about the character or event -- say, George Washington, etc. Here is where I don't know enough about autism or your boy's level to know if that would be too simplistic, or too distracting. I know that Aidan needs a lot of concrete things in order to get a handle on anything conceptual.
I don't know if I'm answering what you're asking!
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Willa
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Taffy
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I don't know if this helps, but I just remembered that I actually blogged about this. If you'd like to read what I've learned and how I am tackling this problem with my son, you can read about it here and here.
I've been trying your suggestions, Willa, but they haven't helped much. Mostly, in our case, I think it's because the problem is largely due to LB's inability to articulate his thoughts with words very well. Also, I ran into a lot of "glazed eyes" when the language was too far over his head. But ,there were also many times where my son surprised me by showing that he'd been understanding the stories. He'd re-enact some of them with his toys, for instance. But it wasn't very consistent.
Tammy Glaser has some good ideas on doing this on her blog as well. Although, I don't think I could handle all the charts very well. 
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rose gardens
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mom3aut1not wrote:
| ... the language in the readings is too hard for him much of the time. ...I am looking for materials I can use with him that fit his needs; this will be an ongoing project.... |
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Taffy already recommended the Lindamood-Bell Visualizing & Verbalizing program that came to my mind. They have other special education material that you may want to check out too.
I recently discovered their materials from Gander Publishing. Amoung other materials, I bought the "Vanilla Vocabulary" first level k-3. This thick book helps children understand basic words, providing a brief definition, then four examples of the word in descriptive sentences, (one that can be more easily pictured in the mind) and lastly lines for the student to write a sentance of his own using the word. (I just ask him to say a sentance, not even write it.)
Vanilla V. has many basic words that I expected my 8 yo to know--but he didn't!  We're still working through the A's. He confused the article "a" with several words that begin with that sound. For instance, my son misunderstood the preposition "across" as the article and noun "a cross." You might want to check further to discover if your son is confused about some basic words. Mine was. The Lindamood-Bell Seeing Stars workbooks also go through vocabulary of the most common, simple words--words that can also confuse some children.
I'm not going through the entire V&V or Seeing Stars program at this point, but I did buy some of their other supplemental materials. I picked up an "Imagine That" book. It's from a series with very short sentenances and short stories to develop the ability to make mental pictures out of what's read to improve comprehension. I don't know if your little guy's ready for something like that yet, but it might be worth checking out.
I am considering the book "See Time Fly" (also sold by Gander Publishing) for our next year's history. I'm uncertain about using a secular history book, but I might try it. I also have old curriculum that I used with older children and hoped to use again. Sigh. I didn't sign up to teach special ed when I started homeschooling....
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Willa
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Taffy wrote:
| I've been trying your suggestions, Willa, but they haven't helped much. Mostly, in our case, I think it's because the problem is largely due to LB's inability to articulate his thoughts with words very well. |
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I am not there with Aidan yet -- we are still working on reading. But reading what you said made me wonder if something like a simple form of IEW would work. Taking a few "key" sentences from a reading -- trying to rewrite the sentences by choosing synonyms or rephrasing sentence structure. Or perhaps for younger children, trying to "retell" rather than rewrite.
This would let the child experiment with definitions of words, and revising sentence structure, without the burden of having to improvise from the head all at once -- a fairly complex skill, when you think about it, when it doesn't come "naturally".
Again, Aidan is not there yet cognitively. But I've noticed that working with fairly concrete, small steps helps him (for instance, we do a lot of rhyming games and alliteration games to increase auditory awareness -- that kind of thing).
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Willa
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mom3aut1not
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Willa,
It's not so much a matter of his attention span. He just has trouble following even a short paragraph with simple language if there is no visual assistance. (In both science and history I use picture books, hands on materials, and dvds.) He is actually starting to "get" American history. So I don't think it is so much the content as the medium.
I don't think I can prepare him for a narration either, at least not for WWE. Using pictures is a good idea for other materials.
Let me put it this way. Testing on directions/concepts put him at about age level. (This used visuals.) Testing on answering questions on material read to him using familiar situations, simple language, short paragraphs, and no visuals put him at less than a 4 yo level. (That's the lowest a child could score on this. He got not a single answer correct.)
What I can do is ask questions after reading one sentence. After doing this, and with some prompting, he can retell a bit more. Unfortunately, WWE 1 selections have some selections that would not be difficult for NT children but that are quite challenging for my little guy. And WWE 2 is so far above him it's not funny. He cannot read or write fluently as well. He copies well and is progressing in spelling and reading.
So, aside from therapeutic materials (I'd like to talk to his regular SLP, but she is currently on her honeymoon), I figure I need to stay at about the first grade level in terms of language skills. I am happy to have found Kingfisher Young Knowledge books; they are a little harder than the books we have used in the past but have some real content as well as beautiful photographs. So..... I am still wondering what to do with history next year. Should we do world history units again with slightly more challenging yet visually appealing materials? Will Classical Writing Primer altered to fit his needs be a good match?
I wish I knew.
And I really wish I could read some of the more challenging picture books or chapter books that my older kids loved. God willing, someday I will.
Have I mentioned how much I love Catholic Mosaic?
In Christ,
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Deborah
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mom3aut1not
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rose gardens,
I'll check out Gander Publishing, but I think I'll hold off buying anything until I talk to my son's (currently honeymooning) SLP. I did see that I could buy Lindamood Bell materials on Amazon.
Thanks for the recommendations!
In Christ,
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Deborah
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KC in TX
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This is my son. We have struggled and continue to struggle with this. He can't create a picture in his mind as he's reading or listening to a story. So, he cannot follow the story. He hears and picks up on sentences here and there but usually they are not significant to the story. I do have to Lindamood Bell stuff but not the vocabulary stuff. He does have some processing difficulties so maybe his problems lie in that area.
I'm sorry I don't have any advice, Deborah. Just sympathy.
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Taffy
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Willa wrote:
Taffy wrote:
| I've been trying your suggestions, Willa, but they haven't helped much. Mostly, in our case, I think it's because the problem is largely due to LB's inability to articulate his thoughts with words very well. |
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I am not there with Aidan yet -- we are still working on reading. But reading what you said made me wonder if something like a simple form of IEW would work. Taking a few "key" sentences from a reading -- trying to rewrite the sentences by choosing synonyms or rephrasing sentence structure. Or perhaps for younger children, trying to "retell" rather than rewrite.
This would let the child experiment with definitions of words, and revising sentence structure, without the burden of having to improvise from the head all at once -- a fairly complex skill, when you think about it, when it doesn't come "naturally".
Again, Aidan is not there yet cognitively. But I've noticed that working with fairly concrete, small steps helps him (for instance, we do a lot of rhyming games and alliteration games to increase auditory awareness -- that kind of thing). |
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These are some good ideas Willa, I'll have to try them. It would be interesting to see how it works with my son. He often surprises me, often with how much he knows but, sadly, I'm often surprised with how little he knows too.
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nightgalaxy
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I know this is an old old thread, but I am wondering how your kids with reading comprehension issues have done in the last few years and what materials you have found helpful. I am in this place with my teen son with autism who excels in visual rule based subjects (math, grammar, spelling, even handwriting) but struggles with reading comprehension and oral and written expression (literature, social studies and to a certain degree science are affected and several grade levels below the more visual concrete subjects).
Thank you for any input.
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mom3aut1not
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nightgalaxy,
Sorry I haven't responded. It's been a crazy year. (My autie just joined the Order of the Arrow....)
My older ASD kids (now grown) who originally had tremendous issues with reading and reading comprehension -- we just kept at reading aloud and later silently, and they got better. I do believe that my reading to them aloud every night also helped. (It also helped that they found something that motivated them to read.) My youngest autie, however, is a different matter. 9th grade was the first grade where they could even test him for reading comprehension, and the result was .4 percentile. So what am I doing now? I am reading to him (even if he doesn't get it all), having him read aloud from a book and having him read The Picture Bible silently. I think he has improved somewhat, but given his processing issues, he may always have trouble.
I have also realized that it is not so much materials I need as topics to be covered for a high school student with significant challenges. Right now we are doing The Picture Bible (comic book format), a book on Angels, and books from Catholic Mosaic on occasion.
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nightgalaxy
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Deborah,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, the read alouds, and the pictorals, for sure are necessary. We just need to keep plugging at it.
I am trying Mindplay Virtual Reading coach to see if these areas can still be remediated.
http://mindplay.com/
I am also looking at the materials on www.strugglingreaders.com specifically Core Reading.
I find some of the programs on Mobymax www.mobymax.com, especialy the Science are visual enough to be effective with my son.
How are you deciding on the content to cover with your high schooler?
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mom3aut1not
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nightgalaxy,
I was thinking over my response and thought I'd say a little more. In reading comprehension, there are a few distinctly different things to consider.
1) In order to have good general reading comprehension, you need to have a wide array of background knowledge. A poor reader with good background knowledge of the material in a passage will get more from a passage than a good reader without the relevant background knowledge. This has been one of my guiding principles in my son's education. This is one of the reasons I work on introducing a chid, disabled or not, to various areas of science and to things like world history.
2) You also need to have automaticity of reading skills. Until a child can read fluently without a lot of thinking about it, reading comprehension will be lacking -- a person only has so much working memory. If it is all taken up with the mechanics of reading (phonics rules and what not), there won't be much left over to think about content.
3) If a child has processing issues, reading will be affected. It is possible for a child to have better processing of the written word than of the spoken word, as well. My son's processing are said to be severe -- and they are.
Each area need a different approach. My son is still working on fluency as well as having significant processing issues. He is making progress which is all I can ask for.
Also, according to one of my older ASD kids, L-Glutamine can help with processing issues. (We're trying this out.) Magnesium taurate has helped more than one of my kids with anxiety issues. Just fyi....
As for my son's curriculum -- for 10th grade (more or less)
Religion --The Picture Bible; Saint & Angels, Crosses & Crowns; books on a variety of topics (right now on angels); and Catholic Mosaic. I have to think about what topics to cover later on.
L Arts -- All About Spelling level 6, daily reading by him and to him (currently a Magic Treehouse book by him and Miracles on Maple Hill to him), Practicing Standard Usage, All About Homophones, 100% Grammar*, 101 Language Activities*, and daily poems
Math -- RightStart Math Geometry, Math Mammoth 6 and 7, simple algebra materials
SLT -- a wide variety of materials with the greatest focus on social skills, pragmatic skills, and auditory processing.
History -- we are continuing with world history with The Middle Ages, (book 3 in a series design for students with relatively poor reading skills) A Child's History of the World, History portfolio, and a wide array of stuff I've picked up over the last 25 years or so
Science --I am trying out a new series of workbooks that are Hi-Lo (high interest, low reading) meant for middle schoolers. This is a departure for me as I rarely use workbooks.Bill Nye Science Guy dvds and The Happy Scientist website are two more resources we have found to be helpful.
Latin -- we are using Latina Christiana ! and will probably quit after the current lesson (We'll have a half-credit then.)
Life Skills -- I have a variety of goals for him along with some special education materials. I expect to take a couple of years on this.
*special education material
I also use anything relevant from his work in Boy Scouts. 
For PE, he is involved in an adaptive recreation program in our county. It's awesome.
It sounds as though your son is higher-functioning than mine, but if you want to know any more about a specific item or approach, let me know.
In Christ,
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Deborah
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nightgalaxy
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Deborah,
Thank you all this information. Very helpful. I need to look up some of the curricula you mentioned. My son has very splintered academic skills, but comprehension of narratives is the most difficult. Also oral comprehension. He does better with written and nonfiction materials.
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CrunchyMom
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That is fascinating about the L-Glutamine helping with processing issues. We have had success using a combination of 5-HTP, magnesium, and GABA to treat anxiety. But I had not considered that amino acids might help those with processing problems. My 9 year old has vision tracking issues as well as processing problems. He is not autistic, and his comprehension is good from audio books and read alouds, but still, it might be worth talking to our pediatric chiropractor.
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mom3aut1not
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nightgalaxy,
If you want to know about the science materials or the things I am using for Life Skills specifically, let me know.
In Christ,
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Deborah
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: Testing and Curriculum
