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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 10 2008 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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clearly identified anywhere. Now, I'm not saying that I care about labeling my child or whatever, but in a nutshell, if I knew for sure that there was something interfering with his ability to learn, I would be able to be gentler with myself and confident that accomodations were reasonable. Does this make any sense?
Where we stand right now - we seem to be dealing with some failure of 2 sides of the brain to coordinate. So there are weird things like if he is asked to push the grocery buggy, he will try to do it with just one hand. When he does spelling, however, he has the pencil in one hand and the red pencil in the other. He is 14 and just won't seem to write - not in cursive at all by choice though he does know how. He writes but only a few sentences - and when he does even these it takes a long time, it is totally void of punctuation and yet he knows how to do this and will edit his papers over and over to get it right. In history, he reads and reads. It took him less than 2 days to read Qua Vadis (and this was something he thought fun to read along with just about everything else in my home). He repeats a lot of what he reads in history orally - just don't ask him to write out answers to questions or his retention level will go down to close to zero. Science is terrible because I don't know how else to teach Physical science except with a textbook. This is not working with him - but my dd struggled with it initially and finally things clicked after being made to answer questions for a while. Now, she is definitely different and her favorite thing to do is write papers, so writing a sentence wasn't a torture for her and it didn't take her all day to write a 5 sentence paragraph.
We have had child tested by a couple of neurodevelopmentalists and they definitely found deficiencies, but they aren't really in the mainstream and some of them we certainly didn't trust enough to go beyond testing. Mainstream services or testing - about all we have available to us anywhere within 3 hours is the vision (which we have already corrected and which finally helped him read at 9/10) and Shriners who will test for dyslexia and dysgraphia. The testing is free, but then other than knowing this is what we are dealing with, there is nothing to support us within any kind of reason.
I keep fluctuating between thinking we are doing a fabulous job and the reason it is hard to peg the difficulties is because we're so good at meeting his needs AND there is nothing wrong except that we haven't consistently just required xyz or we did a lousy job getting the foundations, etc. I am exhausted and in tears almost daily now.
I am just so tired of vision therapy, writing 8s, and all the other stuff we've tried to help integrate. This child wants to be a pilot and works so hard that I have to tell him to stop (he will slave away well past 8PM if I don't insist on breaks, etc.) If we cannot help him integrate both sides together and help him get science - then it seems to me that his goals are unrealistic. But then how do you guide them to discover something else. I don't want to create low expectations or lack of confidence.
I'm just so confused and aching for him right now. At the moment my dh has told me to do the science test orally to see if he can do orally what he cannot do in writing. I know my dh thinks he already really knows a lot of this material because my son was discussing it with him earlier in the week at dinner. Somehow when he took the test, everything got all mixed up. It is discouraging to him and he is beginning to hate science - primarily because of the tests.
I am totally open to ideas on how to do science a different way - but it has to take into account that I don't know science.
I guess this is a plea for = gee I'm not sure what.
Prayers at least and ideas on how to grapple with undiagnosed things when you just don't know if there is a real problem or not. It is hard because there are some just slightly odd things and in conversation he sounds quite brilliant. I know we don't do lots of textbooky and I'm not saying this is the way I want to teach primarily but sometimes you need a workbook here or there when you have a large number requiring your time. But this child just cannot seem to do anything in writing so how do I give credit when he enters high school? Do I just spend an extra year in 8th?
We (my dh and I) have been praying and spending all weekend trying to come up with good schedules/rotations that are reasonable. We need a little fun and relaxation back in - but this one child is so stressed.
We have a schedule of sorts. It is honestly still overwhelming to me so I know we will be tweaking. I was hoping folks had some ideas here.
Sorry this is disjointed and I need to get off and let one of the dc do their school on the computer.
Janet
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Anneof 5
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| Posted: Nov 10 2008 at 5:43pm | IP Logged
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{{{Janet}}} I too am struggling with some of my own. I know how you feel! I also know that a lot of people feel strongly that we should not label our children. But I have come to believe that if we do not really know what is going on with these kids that we can spend a lot of time foundering around and not getting where we want to be (not to say you are floundering, just probably me, you sound like a very hard working homeschooling mom). And the endless researching for answers had me everywhere except where I need to be...with my kids. I had to "know" and chose to have two of mine tested by a neuropsych at a university in my area. We are choosing not to share the diagnosis with others (extended family, etc.) at this time but hope to use the information for ourselves to help our kids. That is our advantage as homeschoolers so the "label" is for our eyes only for now unless we choose to share it. It is a relief to have some answers, to know if my suspicions are correct and what I can do to improve my teaching/mothering for them. I am not saying we are going to follow all of the recommendations we received from the testers, but some of the information is very helpful as far as how much to push them, etc. We are not out of the woods by any means, daily life is still hard and I can relate to the crying, etc. But it sure helps to know what the main issues are, what therapies can make a difference and where to spend our money.I wish I could offer suggestions for science for your son.
It does help to have a diagnosis and I know you said there really isn't anyplace near you, but I would encourage you to look into it if you can, just for some peace of mind. I do know there were people where we went for testing who had to travel and be there two days for testing so that isn't unusual.It was a one time thing.
My best to you and prayers!
Anne
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KC in TX
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| Posted: Nov 10 2008 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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Here's a question: Did he crawl? Kids who did not crawl sometimes have issues with crossing the midline. It's hard to coordinate their right and left sides of the body.
It also sounds like an occupational therapist will be able to help you. Usually a doctor can give a referral for an OT eval.
As for the label, here are my thoughts. I think having an official diagnosis will help tremendously in various places. I know that once my son was diagnosed with autism a lot of things just clicked into place. It makes it easier (not necessarily easy) to deal with and work with him. Also, having the official paperwork will help him if he decides he wants to go to college. Without the diagnosis, he would not have the services or allowances available to a special needs child.
I'll pray for you as I can feel your pain.
__________________
KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
Mama to LB ('98)
Michaela ('01)
Emma ('03)
Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
The Cabbage Patch
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mom3aut1not
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| Posted: Nov 10 2008 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
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Janet,
I have no help to offer about the midline issue, but have you considered using TOPS for science? It's mostly hands on and not expensive.
In Christ,
Deborah
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 11 2008 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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Thanks guys. You are encouraging. Ok, we have a lead to a good occupational therapist. I need to wait until this other mom gets back in town to get the name and number and how they got in. I'm trying to remember how this child crawled - it was slightly odd. We are certain there are crossing the midline issues. That is one of the tests the vision therapist does and we didn't have binocularity. He also generally only uses one hand or the other at a time, holds himself perfectly still when with strangers and some other things that lead me to think sensory integration may be another factor. We definitely had vision problems but this is the only child who just seemed to stagnate at one point. The vision therapy got him to read but it hasn't eliminated things like spelling science without the e - but he knows how to spell it at least some of the time. He plays computer games by getting one of his brothers to fire when he says so and handles the joy flying himself. He does it all himself now because there is a joystick with the firing button on the stick - ie you can do everything with one hand. The only time I've ever seen him use 2 hands together as a first choice and still it is more sequential - one hand then the other, is with spelling. He holds the pencil in one hand and the red pencil in the other, writes the word and marks it without having to change pencils.
Anyways, you should see what this kid reads and remembers. It is everything in my house and much of it quite deep. He can identify every single German WWII aircraft from silhouette. He talks about history, remembers it years later. I know he can read, comprehend and remember. I just realized that the areas that give us fits are science, grammar and writing. Math he does really well but never shows his work and always bombs placement tests so there may be some retention/retrieval problems here - but he can retain and retrieve some information consistently. Grammar is the most obvious problem area along with writing and organizing thoughts. We thought we found a program that worked with Winston grammar. It was great last year and we were so excited that he even got to distinguishing adverbial and adjectival phrases. This year he is back to confusing verbs, prepositions. It is discouraging to us both.
I wish we had the specialists here to test our child. If I knew of someone who had given anyone some good information, I'd be there in a heartbeat. At this point we've spent more than I should ever say between vision therapy and trying to get answers so we have to make sure when we finally go and pay for something, it is actually what will give us an answer. As far as I know the only person testing for learning difficulties anywhere in a 3 hour radius is a neurologist who cannot tell you anything if the brain scans don't turn up brain damage which evidently usually doesn't happen unless the brain damage is recent (and the only advice he gives is to homeschool). This is considerably better than the other option who hates homeschoolers, treats homeschooling kids poorly and still doesn't come up with answers. I'm not sure what she is - but I know it is connected with social workers. Then you have the neurodevelopmentalists that fly in from Coloroda somewhere once every 3 months to do evaluations. They haven't given me a lot of confidence in terms of qualifications, and communications between the college student who observes and the more experienced person who later puts together a program that they send you on-line is less than optimal. I know a lot of their recommendations make sense - but some are downright dangerous and I really am not confident enough that they know what they are doing to plunk down $400 every 3 months for over a year and do things that come with huge warnings about adequate supervision and permanent damage. So what kind of person do you look for to diagnose. I've heard neurophsychologists, pediatric something or others and neurodevelopmentalists. I have a nephew that is clearly LD (there are obvious signs along with sever learning delays and so far no one here has given his mom any information about what the trouble is or how to help him). I'm willing to ask our vision therapist for recommendations in that state if I know what I'm looking for. So what is the difference between all the different people who test for learning disabilities?
I'm beginning to think that his right and left side of the brain don't communicate well. If stuff is stored where history type stuff is stored, he must be able to refind it. If it is stored elsewhere, he seems to be unable to retrieve it consistently. I know we've had things like he will not wear any socks with seams so sensory integration is at least a factor - whether a major or minor one I don't know. He certainly has outgrown the earlier extremes that were common when he was 2 (he does accept tags now, doesn't hyperventilate when we have to get new shoes).
I'd love to do tops science and I bet my 11 yo would run with it. My 14 yo doesn't like doing any experiments, hated manipulatives, .... The one thing he consistently does well is read. I think the Prentice Hall Physical Science just gets lost in the detail and fails to give a good overview at the start. Does anyone know a good overall set of books on different science topics that gives a good overview. Reading level is no problem - technical science vocabulary may be unknown but this child reads everything and reads well and comprehends so it isn't a reading problem. It may be more of a science background problem or a sequencing problem or not having a big picture first. It would be nice if the book connects scientific theory to real life in an engaging way. I'm off to investigate whether TOPs will fit the bill. In the meantime my dh found a great set of cards on the periodic table that have a picture of the element on one side with the symbol - info and name of the element on the back. We hope this will help us hobble through until we know what we're doing. We've been trying to find answers for this child since he was 7. I'm really tired now and he just broke down in tears over a paper he tried to write. Poor guy, he had 5 paragraphs that really didn't say anything. My dh is trying to help him. But now I've gotta go to dinner. Thanks for keeping the ideas coming.
Janet
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Karnak
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| Posted: Nov 17 2008 at 4:28pm | IP Logged
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I think the idea that he may have coordination issues that can be helped by exercises such as an OT can suggest is a good one
Here in Australia, the founder of Toddler Kindy Gymbaro claimed a lot of kids had learning problems because they did not know where they were in space and had learn to walk before using crawling as the initial step. The Gymbaro exercises seemed to help a lot of kids to improve.
My son has autism and OT exercises have helped him. You may be able to get such a program of exercises vi a website or Amazon may have a useful book on it
Karnak
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denise3578
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| Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 7:08am | IP Logged
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I have several things to suggest that are working well for us. Please excuse me for not posting them as links, I don't know how, and my kids are sleeping so I can't ask them.
I highly recommend this book "Your Right Brained Child in a Left Brained World" RB kids process info differently and if you tap into this - it's amazing what they can do. They think and remember in pictures - not words. That may be why your son can remember the planes in sillouette. When you teach them, there are techniques for turning word-intensive subjects (like grammar) into pictures - or even simple diagramms. This has worked well with my daughter.
With spelling, we are now writing the words in color - a different color per syllable. After looking at them while looking up to the right - I hold the card up, my kids get a picture of the word imprinted in their memory. They can recall the word in its entirety and spell it forwards and backwards. And I'm talking about big words here. He talks about how this visual memory is a plus if it's tapped into. And he also gives you "permission" to use their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses. So we do the math orally - My son can do quite a bit of computation in his head - but he gets his numbers backwards, or misaligns his columns on paper.
Another great resource has been dianecraft.org. She is also of this mindset and has very specific ideas about how do go about the different subject areas, and has interesting info about nutritional deficiencies that seem to be common among Right Brained kid- like essential fatty acids, and "good bacteria" in their guts. Very interesting stuff.
I hope this helps, we are just finally starting to understand these 2 or our 5. I suspect my littlest one will also benefit from these strategies when the time comes. We also go to OT (3 of them) and get help there too.
Denise
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ALmom
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| Posted: Dec 15 2008 at 10:57am | IP Logged
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Just an update and a thanks to all. We did get in to the OT and the news was very encouraging. We have also been doing some stuff with Dianne Craft.
Anyways, I was impressed, very much so, with the OT we saw and the interaction with our son. She invited us in and has just the attitude I like. We are hopeful that we will have resolved our difficulties in 2 months or so  .
One thing she recommended was Wii with two particular programs. Anyone used these as therapy? In any case it seems a lot more fun and I'm certain she hit it right on and is not being tricked by his immense ability to compensate.
Janet
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ALmom
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| Posted: Feb 18 2009 at 8:51pm | IP Logged
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Update to celebrate. Our OT was fantastic and a perfect fit for us. I went in every time (she just assumed I would). She worked very well with our son and gave him responsibility for the exercises. I am so proud of him. He did a great job, worked very hard and we were released from OT Friday. It didn't even take 2 months. No more crossing the midline issues, no more death grip on the pencil, smooth cursive and it takes at least half the time to do work. Concepts seem to be more easily grasped. Now I'm scrambling to figure out how to revamp for the added abilities we are seeing. I am hopeful that we have addressed everything. Thanks so much, guys, for suggesting an OT. We went back to the Vision therapist and doc and they honestly couldn't find anything. We have a few reversals still - but this may be just habit now based on how things got in when the other things were still issues and we are hopeful that this will gradually disappear. If not, he'll just have to do a lot of spell checking.
We are doing a happy dance here. My son, I know, is so glad to finally be done with all therapy and no more 3 hour drives for a guy who really hates even leaving the house much (normal temperment thing here).
Oh, and just fyi, we did get Wii Fit and Big Brain Academy. Wii Fit has a lot of balance and coordination things (helping crossing the midline) - and just the encouraging/competitive thing that made a lot of this fun. Big Brain Academy has plenty of visual processing skills exercises. As much as I hate video games and systems, these, were, I think helpful in speeding up our process. We now restrict them just like any other video games but at least Wii Fit can be done as a family. Don't mean to sound like an advertisement and I know we would not have spent the mega bucks if these were not recommended by the OT. However, we did not buy on-line and just waited till it showed up in stock or on sale.
Thanks
Janet
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: ? about special needs that aren't
