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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 22 2006 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
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Please excuse me for indulging myself in some online curriculum planning.  I'm beginning to feel the fluttery quickening of 2006-2007 planning.  Like Lisa I am Excited!  or, possibly, relieved that I still get a high from curriculum plans and educational decision making.
Well, I do with the younger grades anyway. Unlike the flow of our homeschool which budges, relaxes, and accomodates; the school/college system does not.  High school and college level prep is tough. I  get weak in the knees and  the stomach  and feel like I'm up against a firing squad. 
Kayleigh (11th grade) will be taking college prep-level courses and honor classes at the local school. She'll be taking medical classes at the local hospital as well. This is offered through the school system.
Chelsea (of her own accord and decision making) has told me she wants to use Sonlight Curriculum her 3rd grade year. Her ideal curriculum is simply reading, reading, reading. Okay...I can live with that.
It's always easy enough to include Sonlight selections into any other curriculum we choose. I already have CHC's 3rd grade curriculum which I used with Garrett (goodness! where have the years gone!!!?  ) so I might throw in some disciplined work through CHC. But I'm determined to leave her mostly to the hands of these great writers and practice some educational decluttering.
If all she does this year is read and roam the outdoors, I will leave her be. I also plan to use Julie Bogart's The Writer's Jungle with her.
Garrett (8th Grade) will again use CHC and Seton. I also plan to bring in more audio books and lots and lots of science, history videos for him to listen to and watch. The Writer's Jungle with him as well.
I'm looking at getting Saxon D.I.V.E for math and our Spanish tutor has said she'll continue lessons each week.
Annie (Kindergartner) will use the fun activities and learning sheets in Learn at Home and our FIAR books. Once again I'll use Little Stories for Little Folks and we'll work on reading.
My involvement with the children will be:
* poetry in the mornings
* reading chapter book in the afternoon
* outside time every evening
* continuing our biographical study
* book discussions
But...while finally catching-up on reading the Latin Centered Curriculum thread, it took me back to a MODG babymoon which I fall into at least once a year and fail out of each and every time.
I want it! I want what other hsers who use MODG have. I want to say "we're classical educators". I want to say that we study Latin and read Homer and climb Parnassus.
But to be honest with myself (and my children), I know that---for us---classical education doesn't come anywhere near Real Learning and Charlotte Mason. It traps us too much, it stresses us, it devours our time.
Or...is it that it traps me too much? stresses me too much? devours my time too much? These are the questions I come back to year after year after year.
I want the best for my children and, in my girls I can see classical education working. I want to use MODG with Chelsea because I know she can do it (and would probably love it).
But, I know myself well. Real Learning and Charlotte Mason are the things that keep me excited about learning. I want that for my dc first and foremost.
So I begin interrogating myself:
* Do I let her choose her curriculum?
* Do I throw in some MODG instead of CHC?
* Are the two curriculums, in fact, so closely related (as I think they are) that I don't worry about it?
* Is Sonlight selections and CHC enough of a classical approach for her?
* Can Real Learning/CM (namely the reading involved) come anywhere close to a classical education?
* Isn't it more logical to study Spanish for future use than Latin?
Really I see less in MODG than what I offer my children each year. But MODG is a structured curriculum which is something I lack. We follow CHC pretty freely. If we follow MODG will she be smarter, more disciplined, more well-rounded like her sister who always had the structure?
Then, amist the questions, comes the reminder that it is in giving up the structure that I've found our peace and eagerness towards learning. Do I give that up for structure and better future prospects? What are those prospects?
I know I cannot twist together a MODG, CHC, Sonlight, Real Learning/CM plan. By doing so I'll have gotten completely away from her freedom of education in wanting to read for school. I'll have completely taken over her learning experience and made it a labourous task, thus denying her the wonder that home education allows us.
So another question arises. How much freedom and choice does one give a 3rd grade student anyway?
I hope this makes since and I haven't rambled too much. I'm a rambler by nature. But I still have two months to plan and discern, so I intend to indulge myself.
Thanks for being Grandmother Willow.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: June 22 2006 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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Cay, these are some interesting questions you have. I'll be interested in hearing how you work them all out as time goes by. I, too am doing alot of planning right now and asking myself alot of similar questions.
I wonder, in regards to your 3rd grader, what is it about classical that attracts you when her preference for literature-based ed seems so clear? Is it the discipline and structure? I wonder if you can make any educational approach more or less disciplined depending on how you carry it out?
What strikes me is this statement: "it is in giving up the structure that I've found our peace and eagerness towards learning."
How many of us are still seeking this, and yet, you have found it! I would hold onto that at all costs!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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gina
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| Posted: June 22 2006 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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Cay,
My gosh, you have hit the nail on the head!
Everything I have been thinking about my 10ds' education.
He loves reading and learning history, and science and all the rest is ok. But since he lost his joy for Math and his retention in Science and Language arts using a semi-classical approach last year(our first year hsing), I decided to do more of a CM approach this year and Prairie Primer to start. If I it, I will switch to BYFIAR.
And see how this next year comes out.
It is a long road for those of us who think too much.
I go back and forth, back and forth.
I like Classical cause it looks and sounds so good, and
when you hear the successes and high sat and act scores,well makes me just want it ALL.
But hey, who is this young man? and what is he trying to tell my by his dreams, desires, abilities, likes, and dislikes??
I don't know if I am on the right track, but we are going to go down it and see.
Gina
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 8:45am | IP Logged
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I've been reading A LOT at Theresa's blog these last couple of days, and read the educational decluttering link Cay posted above.
Cay, could you use something like English from the Roots Up or Words on the Vine (both posted at Theresa's blog) to help satifsy that desire for a Latin base? I know it's a far cry from "taking Latin," but it would accomplish some of same goals: to better understand how to decode words in English and to expand English vocabulary based on Latin roots. Knowing some Spanish would actually make this easier, since many of the root words are so very similar. As for sentence structure, Spanish and Latin are constructed the same way -- as are all romance languages. So in learning Spanish and translating sentences, dd should learn the same grammar skills that 'Barefoot Meandering' mentions in the Decluttering Education post as benefits to taking Latin.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Kim F
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 8:50am | IP Logged
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You know Cay, I own almost all the levels of MODG syllabi and I just don't find them that tempting. I have used many of them and found them to be not user friendly,especially for lots of different levels. We can read tons but we can't read tons about 4 different history eras at once. Ditto for narration.
Also I think the Latincentered.com ideas are VERY CM!! We have come to this method over the past couple yrs by default so it was such a relief to see it outlined as desirable lol! We focus on math and grammar and music daily and then read tons and do projects when we can in the other areas. But the language subjects (math/music/language) are the focus of my supervision time since they require a different level of commitment than the more subjective courses.
This was the best of both worlds imo. We have the structure in those classes and then knowing we covered those we could branch out and relax with the others. We are choosing lots of Greek history, mythology and arts for the *lots of reading* Campbell suggests.
We are also using the Home Educator's Tutor magazine Home Educator's Tutor
this year for the CM part. She includes sections of nature study, Plutarch, Shakespeare, artist study (6page pullout) composer study (cd included) lit, primary sources exerpts, and some handwork each term. They have a character focus each time also and memory verses from the Douay-Rheims bible. For $30 we have CM and classical in the mail each term! This couldn't be easier.
Kim
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 9:22am | IP Logged
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Kim, that looks like an interesting resource. Sounds like it would be worth the subscription for the composer and artist study alone. Can you describe more how you use it? Perhaps this is another thread?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Meredith
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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Cay, I don't have time to comment right now, but I just wanted to say I LOVE your plans for next year and I'm printing them out for reference. I totally agree with what you said about the MODG and classical approach..."Don't Fence Me In"...
Thanks for getting my head into the planning mode
Hugs!
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Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
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Kim F
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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Theresa if you want to start another thread give me the heads up. This can really BE a curric if you wish it to be. (Adding math,grammar, and history for lower grades.) It is basically Ambleside without the *go and get* factor. Same subject coverage.
Kim
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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Kim,
Yes, I would also love to hear more about this resource! Is it aimed at a specific age group (like K-8)? Sounds like it might be a real life saver for me this year!
Cay,
I agree with you about MODG - I like many of the CM type things she does in the lower grades, but as you get further into the program (really like around 3 or 4th grade), I find it begins to get stifling. My oldest ds also strongly dsilikes being limited to studying pretty much one historical time period per school year.
Blessings,
Tea
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
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Well, I'm with Cay in the trying to think outloud curriculum mode. Of course my typical pattern is so wasteful - I look at everything, see something good in it and cannot decide what to actually purchase. I end up purchasing lots more than we can get through in a year (to the detriment of our budget and the increase of my stress). Then we we have it all here, I waver between excitement and dread. Now my dc usually lead me to figure out what to let go of somewhere in the year - but it would save time, energy and money if we could just figure it out ahead of time. My dh is so understanding - he says that one day we'll own just about everything we could possibly imagine using and not need to order anymore. (Probably when all the kids are grown and I'm no longer homeschooling - but even then, they'll probably be some great picture book I just have to have around for the grandkids or I'll do all these lessons myself for me that I never had time to do with the kids ).
Right now I am planning on using rchistory with all - but based on dc interests and different levels, we will be attempting every level - and there were some things in Kolbe history for 9th and 10th that I wanted to do with the 9th grader. I have to do science to have it on the transcript and we are planning to do Biology (Prentice Hall) with TB but do have microscope, and dissection kits plus models of body, ear, eye and brain. I'd love to order the CD lab because I am not a teacher but the book is very expensive, etc. and dh and I are in the trying to balance the budget mode and want to resume cello lessons for high schooler. I think I can add in some Kolbe stuff in theology - I really do like their Bible study - but rchistory makes it so much easier because theology, history and literature are all woven into one plan. This particular child is so project oriented and has to have time to do - not just read and answer questions. I have a Latin teacher hired for a group class for the highschooler. I don't think any of my others are ready for any formal Latin like that.
I want to do Catholic Mosaic with all as a nice intro/reminder for celebrating the liturgical year.
I think my biggest thing is weaving everything together for everyone so that we are not planning too much in a day - but I want to do everything and still have plenty of time for dc to follow their own trails.
I was very, very excited about rchistory and how it dovetailed so well with so many things - but then I started adding in a lot of Kolbe stuff, and to be honest, I know it is too much. But perhaps it is better to have all the different books around so that there are real options about what we want to follow a bit more in depth and what we will just puruse the rchistory way. But then there are the budget constraints - ordering for 5 dc does get expensive when you want to use real books as opposed to tons of workbooks. I also want bits and pieces of plans from CHC (high school of your dreams and 4th grade) and Kolbe, it seems.
In the process of going through my bookshelf, I found about 10 duplicate books so I also need to sell these or give them away.
I am currently in the panic mode as we draw close to the start of our next school year and we still don't know what we're doing. And some of my dc are still finishing up from last year. But they do spend a lot of time perusing outdoors, blowing up things in my kitchen, etc.
I also think I feel so inadequate right now. It is hard not to get into the rushed mindset of the world. My high school graduate is moving on to college - but some of her courses will be silly because we had no means of getting AP credit, didn't duel enroll. Her science background is deplorable. She will be re-taking a math course this summer (we did Pre-calc at home and she did fine in it but it was a high school course so she still has to fulfill her math requirement for college - so she is taking the same course - college version. Why didn't we think to duel enroll? Why do we seem to feel like we have to be in such a hurry. Yes, it does seem like a waste of time somewhat to repeat what she already has had, but she is in college, with a scholarship, and she'll do fine. Aah. I wish I could just learn to relax and let go.
Janet
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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Cay,
I meant to ask you - how are you combining CHC and Seton for your 8th Grader?
Blessings,
Tea
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
| You know Cay, I own almost all the levels of MODG syllabi and I just don't find them that tempting. I have used many of them and found them to be not user friendly,especially for lots of different levels. We can read tons but we can't read tons about 4 different history eras at once. Ditto for narration. |
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I'm with you Kim. Just sold all my MODG syllabi. Understanding the distinction between classical & neo-classical has been very helpful, as well as liberating (!!).
Kim F wrote:
| Also I think the Latincentered.com ideas are VERY CM!! We have come to this method over the past couple yrs by default so it was such a relief to see it outlined as desirable lol! We focus on math and grammar and music daily and then read tons and do projects when we can in the other areas. But the language subjects (math/music/language) are the focus of my supervision time since they require a different level of commitment than the more subjective courses. |
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Kim, are you sure you're not describing our homeschool ? I "teach" latin, grammar, composition & modern studies (Amer. Hist.). Prayers, Bible reading, and memorization (poetry & Baltimore Catechism) happen 1st thing everyday. The dc are pretty much on their own for math. History & Science come from living books.
Kim F wrote:
| This was the best of both worlds imo. We have the structure in those classes and then knowing we covered those we could branch out and relax with the others. We are choosing lots of Greek history, mythology and arts for the *lots of reading* Campbell suggests. |
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Exactly!
Cay, I really was inspired when I once read that you did your "seat work" in the morning & had the afternoon free for projects, read alouds, etc. You inspired me to do our Classical seatwork in the morning & then have "CM afternoons."
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
| Of course my typical pattern is so wasteful - I look at everything, see something good in it and cannot decide what to actually purchase. |
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This is exactly what I'm going through...probably part of my stress. We're taken everything out of ds#2's room and have painting it and put down new flooring. I had our main educational book cabinet in his room. That cabinet is being moved and he doesn't want all my books in his room. I'm trying to respect this, really I am.
Dh said he would cut some inlaid bookcases into the hallway. Our hallway is a foot wider than most hallways so it's very wide and very long. I'm sure I'm the only one who will appreciate this reconstruction of our hallway but...hey! it's my hallway. Right?!
So I'm looking at all these books up and down the hallway gathering dust and I know I have to weed through them and declutter. Some we used once, some we've never used, etc. But I'm just not qualified for the task. I can find one good thing in just about every book I've ever picked up. It's a dilemmi. Someone has to do the job and I'm the only one who can. My 2 boys don't crave books like I do, my oldest dd has her grandmother's genes and can declutter the hallway in one fell swoop. Annie is too young and Chels is as bad as I am. So that leaves me with too many books and no where to put them. I have to make myself make room for new curriculum. I must! But, by the time I go through these books I doubt I'll need to buy anything . Why does that make me sad?!
Yesterday and last night I hauled DYOCC book around with me...discerning, pondering, etc. Then this morning I saw a book by David Albert recommended at the Unschooling Catholics eloop.
Now I'm rethinking our unschooling successes and how much I love unschooling. Really a year of book reading, Spanish, online math tutor, and Real Learning-CM-unschooling would be perfect! Wouldn't it!?
But then I have CHC materials (which I love) and DYOCC whose theory I love but which, like Kim, I have never, never been impressed with the lesson plans...just the DYOCC book. I also have the CM tutoring subscription that Kim mentioned.  It is excellent but...we haven't used it yet.
Art study can be done easily for FREE here at 4reallearning.
It's really not difficult at all...except...
...except when I look at a friend's ds who used a complete Kolbe curriculum from 3rd grade-12 grade and scored way higher than my son did on the ACT test.  And I have to wonder if my inconsistencies and my indecisiveness and the "unschooling" was what was best.
Of course, these boys are very different and are going down two different career paths in life. And, yes, I am very proud of my son. But, perhaps, the Kolbe discipline was a good thing. At the time, I thought it was too rigorous and dry for my son. And it was . But...
I'm still discerning...pondering...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Anne Marie M
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| So I'm looking at all these books up and down the hallway gathering dust and I know I have to weed through them and declutter. Some we used once, some we've never used, etc. But I'm just not qualified for the task. I can find one good thing in just about every book I've ever picked up. It's a dilemmi. Someone has to do the job and I'm the only one who can. |
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Cay, have you been in my house? In my hallway? I have piles of good books - organized by topic, even - and nowhere to put them until I get rid of something. somewhere. I thought about bookcases in the hallway, but our hallway isn't quite wide enough!
Anne Marie in NM
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Natalia
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As I read your post Cay, I realize why I have put off planning our next school year. I love planning, don't get me wrong. I love planning but at some point i have to make a decision.
I am thinking that for this year I'll try something new in my planning: I want to only plan one term at a time and only order the material for that term (except for math and maybe latin). I wonder if that way I will feel less locked in and less pressured to stick to something just because I invested money. I wonder if that wil help me to factor in my dc interests and desires.
Has any of you done this? Do you order your material for the whole year or do you order as you go?
Natalia
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time4tea
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Natalia,
As a matter of fact, I was just thinking about buying only for one term at a time just this afternoon. It makes perfect sense to me, and I can't see how it would be a bad thing. That way, if something really isn't working, you don't have to continue with it. I'll be curious to hear who has actually put this into practice.
Blessings,
Tea
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: June 23 2006 at 5:48pm | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
| I've been reading A LOT at Theresa's blog these last couple of days, |
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Me too. Isn't it great!?! 
cathhomeschool wrote:
| Cay, could you use something like English from the Roots Up or Words on the Vine (both posted at Theresa's blog) to help satifsy that desire for a Latin base? |
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We've used English from the Roots Up every year. Last year we got terribly lazy with it though and didn't pick it up again after the hurricane. Thanks for mentioning. I will have to drag it out. I'm sure it's just the sort of thing my 3rd grader will love.
I have Words on the Vine that a friend gave me. They ended up not using it. We've never used it. I was going to have my 8th grader use it this year and see how it works.
Have you used Words on a Vine? Did you all like it? It's more of a workbook but we'll see how it goes.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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ALmom
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We tried planning one quarter at a time - figured in the quarter breaks, we'd plan the next quarter. We had a great first quarter cause everyone had a roadmap and then we were just too much in the thick of things to plan again. Things spriraled down from there. But then I'm an expert modifier and can change directions midstream easily - as long as I have a road map.
I think it depends on the personality of the teacher. I feel secure with the plan even if we never use much of it - it is my giant list of ideas so that when it is more important what is for dinner, there is a plan, dc have a general idea of what we are planning to accomplish and they all feel free to come to me and tell me something is NOT working - and I listen to the dc and we come up with an alternative together on the spot. But without the initial plan, we just stymie and vegetate.
Janet
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lapazfarm
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Hee, hee! I LOVE planning! I do it all the time!
In fact, I usually make an overall plan for the year (like you've seen on my blog) but I leave HUGE GAPS! On purpose! That way I get to plan some more during the year based on dc's interests.
I think if I felt I had to plan out everything for the entire year and then STICK TO IT I would have an attack of some sort! The pressure! I can't imagine trying to see that far into the future and anticipate every little need or interest. Where is the fun in that?
Take, for example, the Around The World Notebook my ds wants to do next year. I have a bit of an idea where that is going. I have some introductory resources lined up to start us off, but beyond that? Clueless! We will just have to see where the trail leads us. That's where the fun starts! I don't know where it will lead and I cannot imagine planning resources and lessons for each country we will "visit." Too stifling!
I think this is why so many moms stress over the planning part each year. The feeling that you have to know ahead of time each and every thing you will do must be an enormous weight on your shoulders. I know I couldn't bear it.
That doesn't mean not having a plan at all. But my plans are more like a trail guide than a road map, so to speak. Though I want to know where we are headed, I don't want to know every twist and turn ahead of time! Some surprises along the way are what make the going good!
But, then again, not everyone thinks like I do.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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StephanieA
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<But to be honest with myself (and my children), I know that---for us---classical education doesn't come anywhere near Real Learning and Charlotte Mason. >
Dearest Cay,
I am going up and down this road too! This is what I have learned about myself after being part of classical homeschooling sites for years. Maybe Willa can chime in here too with her life experiences.
I don't have a classical education, but I do know how to reason out an argument and think for myself. I struggle with Latin. I'm not talking grade school Latin which some consider "taking Latin". I am speaking here of the latter part of Henle's, Jennys or Wheelocks. The goal of a Latin-centered curriculum is the reading of entire books and writing of Latin in the latter part of high school. It means reading Oedipus, Antigone, Euripedes, etc. It means adding Greek sometime. It means spending a huge amount of time on Latin, especially if the parent doesn't know it, hire a tutor, or on-line courses.
We can take from the classical ideas - formation vs. information, poetry memorization then analysis, reading and analyzing classical literature, Socratic discussion instead of fill-in-the blanks. But when the rubber hits the road, this isn't what classicists would consider a classical education. There are stages to follow and certain milestones to reach in particular stages of development.
I have been thinking A LOT about this lately. My grandmother knew only the Latin in Mass. She was taught in the early 1900's and memorized scads of poetry (Byron, Shelly, Wadsworth, etc.) that she could recite at 95. She understood, but spoke little German. She was well-read. She could reason. I guess this is more what I am looking for. I want my kids to be able to think for themselves, have original ideas, have an opinion and be able to express it verbally and in writing.
Latin is not necessarily the road to high ACT or SAT scores. This shouldn't be the reason to choose a Latin-based education. Our local Catholic prep school every year gradates 25% of their students in the top 3% of SAT and ACT scores nationwide. They don't offer Latin.
That said, I don't know that I will ever be totally reconciled with the fact that a Latin-centered curriculum isn't for us. I know my 16 year-old would excel at it with the right teacher. I resolved to put him and the 14 year-old on-line next year for classical literature. I began looking what they would read and going over it with the 16 year-old. He read "The Illiad", but I hesitated about "The Odyssey" because I feel I would have to give more moral guidance on the sexual issues than I really have time (or the desire) to go into. The classics are full of sexual content, suicides, murders, etc. I don't know that my kids are ready for all this at 15 or 16. These stories were meant for adult readers. I want to make darn sure when my kids read this material under my watch that I am there to explain the moral situations in the light of the Catholic church. There was only one situation like this in, for example Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment". The whole issue of his conscience was overwhelming. What a life lesson! I found this book ever so much thought-provoking than say "Antigone". Others would highly disagree. But that's what makes homeschooling such a wonderful endeavor. We can choose what we want to pass onto our children.
Will we always challenge our kids to their maximum? I don't think I will. But I am resolved to find materials to teach them to reason out situations in a moral way, be able to express themselves, to gather information and come up with solutions to life's problems. I also want them to have a well-rounded education. I want them exposed to the arts, a solid background in history, music, and poetry. For several years I spent so much time on Latin, our read-alouds ceased. That was a mistake.
Others with a classical background could pull this off, even with a large family. Me? I can't. So I will put together my curriculum every year to serve our family with certain goals in mind. I am not a classical educator even though we do study Latin to a certain level, logic, read classical literature in high school, and do Socratic discussions. We have our subjects year-to-year that I "unschool". I want my kids to read copiously, listen to read alouds, and narrate.
I think the Lord will lead us where we need to go with our kids.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Discerning the 2006-2007 Year
