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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Sept 08 2014 at 11:34am | IP Logged
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My 8 year old was just diagnosed with vision problems. He will start therapy this Friday. He has tracking problems and convergence issues to the extent that he often sees double. When dh and I were in the conference, it was an epiphany because I could start naming all his coping mechanisms, e.g. his tendency to close one eye to examine things. I TOTALLY thought this was a dramatic affectation he had picked up from a movie or cartoon. Then on the way home, when I was explaining to him simply what we had been told about his vision, I said, "so, sometimes you have double vision where you see two things instead of one," and he replied non-chalantly, "Oh, yeah, that happens a lot. I just close one eye so I can see just one." Holy Moly, Kid!!! Think you could have told your mother this before now!  
So clearly, his vision is NOT doing him any favors in the reading department.
He is 8 this summer and still not reading. The optometrist's office cannot do an official dyslexia diagnosis, but they do a screening as a part of the testing for his vision, and he was diagnosed with a specific reading disorder. Most likely dyslexia.
I have suspected dyslexia, and I feel awful that I shoved it aside for the last two years in favor of giving him time. Better late than early and all that.
I did decide to use Sound Beginnings with him this year. I have been using some of the multi-sensory materials from Logic of English and using the LOE Foundations program with my almost 6 year old. It is a good fit for him, and my current system of doing the SB lesson with my 8 year old followed by doing the Foundations lesson with my 6 year old is good because my 6 year old participates in the phonemic awareness games with the 6 year old. I feel like Foundations would be too babyish on its own with him, but LOE Essentials looks to go too fast. Plus it is really expensive AND I already own Sound Beginnings. I've said all this before in other threads, but now, I am really looking for feedback from experienced moms.
I have also read that the official testing, more than making it official, identifies strengths and weaknesses that are useful in developing or choosing programs for the individual child. Dyslexia can have different levels and look different in each child, so the mere fact that something is based on Orton Gillingham is not the best indication that it will work with all dyslexic children.
I have looked at EasyRead and am convinced my son would love it even though we haven't done the sample lessons together, but the price is so high!
I guess what I am saying is how long do I try our own thing before deciding we need more help? If I had followed my instincts, even though I had no hard evidence, we'd have gone in for vision testing 2 years ago and started using All About Spelling even though I am SO resistent both to its cost and the number of manipulatives  and the mom intensive time, though I am spending a good bit of time with him now, so far this year. The baby turned one and I am not yet pregnant, so it is a good place for mom time for the time being.
Also, my gut reaction up until now was not to get an official diagnosis. It is a heavy label. But then, will the official diagnosis help us help him? Is it more than just a label?
Also, I had never considered, until our eye doctor proposed it, that having the diagnosis could help with accommodations relevant to homeschoolers, like extra time to take standardized tests like the ACT and SAT.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Sept 08 2014 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
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I'm hesitant to offer too much advice, Lindsay, because there are a spectrum of dyslexic challenges. I'm glad he's getting vision therapy, and my suspicion (just a gut guess, nothing more) is that this will really help you address a lot of challenges and make the rest much more manageable!
My first daughter is dyslexic. We chose not to test her because I wasn't convinced that any pros from the official diagnosis would add enough to balance what I felt was a burdensome label that would follow my daughter on everything. I'm not necessarily advocating that approach, nor do I second guess that decision for my family. It's just where we landed. I'm very happy that's what we did at this point, although at the time it was a step in faith (similar to where you are right now - more questions than answers).
I decided to trust my instincts in helping her on my own. I did some reading on dyslexia, and we approached a lot of phonics and reading much more visually than I had been doing previously which I think was more auditory and didn't work for her. I used Writing Road to Reading for awhile because it was Orton Gillingham and everyone pointed in that direction, but the program was WAY too time/labor intensive for both of us. I dropped it and used regular programs we had but brainstormed ways to present phonemes and we practiced these using a variety of methods that involved auditory, kinesthetic, and visual approaches. There were no apps at that time...but today I'm sure there would be several that would be a help in this regard! Anyway, my advice there is to be cautious in thinking an expensive heavily laden program is necessary for a dyslexic.
Here are some things that over the years I'm convinced help my daughter deal with dyslexia so that it really doesn't intrude on her day anymore:
Narrations!!!! - Seriously - because it helps the dyslexic child process and then give back to you. Dyslexic kids have some problems sometimes in processing and then turning it around in their mind and giving it back, whether orally or in writing. Narrating does more for the dyslexic than ANYTHING else in my opinion! You might have your son narrate directions back to you after you give them to him. Even though he's not reading independently yet he can definitely narrate! He probably already is, but definitely consider working especially with this child, really committing to time to hear his narrations and build him and gently stretch him in narrations. It will be a skill he leans on for his entire life as a way to process information.
Combine auditory, visual, and kinesthetic approaches in lessons. Just because you don't have a program specifically built for a dyslexic doesn't mean you can't brainstorm it and work it to incorporate all three approaches. An example of this might be in teaching a word or phoneme. Say it, sound it, sing it opera style, draw it in the air, build it out of legos, trace it in sand, glue cotton balls on a sheet of paper in the shape of the letter, keep a post it note of that word/phoneme on the fridge, over his desk, wherever. I know you like building the boys their own books with the Proclick - consider maybe printing the phonemes and words you're going to work on for the term in BIG font. Just seeing it regularly helps!
Keep things visually plain and clean on his papers. No scrolls or pictures (sadly) - they're distracting. I typed out all of my daughter's phonics/reading work on papers that I formatted. Choose one, plain, straightforward font that has clearly distinguishable lettering and be consistent with it. Print in black/white only. Big and bold. I like the fonts: futura, comic sans (because of the shape of the 'a' for a new reader).
I credit simple dictation lessons with Sarah's ability to advance in reading and spell ANYTHING! Starting dictation lessons in 4th grade, I picked up right where we left off with the daily phonics instruction we had been doing the previous 3 years. So...in essence, I never stopped working/reviewing phonics with this child (another key for a dyslexic! And unlike feeling like you're always doing remedial phonics, which can be a real blow to a dyslexic's confidence, it's just dictation. Simple dictation lessons. No "remedial" label!) Dictation emphasizes visualizing words in the mind and I believe this was key to Sarah's success over the years. By 6th grade dictations I thought I was seeing improvement, by 8th grade I was blown away at her spelling abilities knowing where we started. So...it may take some time to see fruits!
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So....my perspective now: Sarah has graduated now, but she took the SAT and ACT with no special accommodations and did fine. She still can't tell her right from her left. She CAN spell pretty well and reads well. She doesn't even consider dyslexia as a "label" she has - she just knows she has some challenges in that area and we worked hard to give her some tools so she could deal in the real world with her challenge. She has a full time job now (though she may dial back if she takes classes this spring) that requires writing and communicating on a regular basis and has said many times that learning the skill of narrating has helped her so much because she learned to narrate directions interiorly so that she could remember them. She still takes "picture memories" of words (that's from dictation lessons) if she's got to turn around and write it to label media for her job.
Praying for you as you search through all that's out there to find your way, Lindsay! 
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setonmom
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Is there any testing you could have done for free through your local school system? or any services you might qualify for if you go through them?
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Betsy
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I am going just give you a and let you know that you aren't the only Mother out there that "knows" thing and then takes a while to get them to the eye doctor.
I had one kid that had an eye exam at 4 and they said he needed glasses but would out grow them. I though that was crazy and I never put him in glasses. He has excellent vision.
I had my last kid tested at 3 and they said that he had a pretty good astigmatism. I didn't put him in glasses because I though that he was going to just break them and hey I had good instincts with my other son. Fast forward a few yeas...and a job change so we had to wait almost 8 months for all the insurance stuff....and I bring this kid back in. The doctor looked at me and didn't know how he was functioning because he can only see about a foot in front of his face. He is now being treated at Duke Eye Center. Wow, I felt (and still do) like a looser Mom.  To my defense I knew he needed to get in about a year before I could made the appointment....but it still makes me feel bad. AND, he has broke his glasses 3 times since December!! So I didn't even avoid that!
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Kristie 4
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I waited until my dd17 was 15! She doesn't mind the dyslexia label- she is in university now and has a accommodations that she can choose to use or not. For her courses at the university last year she chose not to use them. When she has to take the one single half-year required English course (she in in engineering) she will most definitely choose the accommodations.
For this child, because we waited, I am sure I missed some opportunities for improvement along the way. What was really cool though was all the things the psychologist recommended I do to work with her strengths we were already doing! Audiobook textbooks, lots of lectures vs. long wordy reading materials etc.
Just wanted to encourage you!
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JuliaT
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For some reason I am only seeing this now. I think all of my kids have dyslexia in varying degrees. I haven't had my older two tested because their problems are minimal in that they can read. They have difficulties in reading but I am dealing with it on my own.
My youngest, though, is severely dyslexic and I think she might have ADD as well which is making things even more difficult. She is 11 and is still not reading. I have tried Bartons (now THAT program is expensive--it did work with my other kids, though) and LoE. We have had more progress with LoE but we still hit walls. I have had her tested with the school division and for vision therapy. Both experiences were a waste of time.
We live in a rural area where it is extremely difficult to find anyone to help. But I came upon a reading therapist last week and we will soon have an assessment and then go from there. I am seeing that an assessment will be needed for this child if she is to go on to college/university. I have heard good things about this therapist so I am praying that she will be able to help Mariah.
Seeing that your son has vision problems, Vision therapy might help your ds enough that you might not need an OG program. I would wait for awhile to see how the VT is working and just use what you are already using. If the VT does not work then you might have to go back to the drawing board.
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CrunchyMom
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We are about half-way through vision therapy, and while there is some improvement, both in vision and in reading, we still aren't where we need to be.
The biggest hurdle is ME!! I just have a hard time being disciplined about reading lessons. We've been using Sound Beginnings, and I know it is good, but while I like the parts that are scripted, the whole thing about following the chart to know what lessons to do and flipping back and forth in the book and all of that is starting to get overwhelming, especially since he is ahead in some types of exercises but needs more time with others. Plus, I know that he really needs me to spend a good 10-15 minutes with him daily, but a Sound Beginnings lesson is much longer than that and impossible for both of us if the baby or toddler interrupts a lot.
I LOVED Explode the Code with my oldest, but it is clearly not the program my maybe dyslexic/definitely right brained, vision challenged child needs. However, I love how contained and open and go it is...
So, I came across Dancing Bears, a British phonics program that uses a synthetic approach rather than OG. On the Well-Trained Mind forum, lots of parents of dyslexics and other challenging or late readers have seen great success with the program. It still requires me to do it with my child, but it is much more open and go. I really don't seem to stick with "complicated" programs, and I just don't think we can afford EasyRead right now, though I'm keeping it in my back pocket. Dancing Bears is really affordable, only $28 for the first book and flashcards set.
Another thing I like the looks of for our situation is that the method trains the eyes to look at the word front to back, taking in each phoneme. This is a real challenge for us since ds seems to sort of skip about when looking at a word. It seems to sort of address the vision problems in addition to the reading, altogether.
I've never seen Dancing Bears mentioned on these forums. As I said, it is a British program, so it is not as well known here, but also, the website is not very good or inspiring. I'd seen it in the past and sort of dismissed it over flashier programs, but now I am thinking that I'm really not a flashy sort! I thought I would post about it anyway in case others had similar needs. I'll certainly update if we see great success.
I am wondering if it wouldn't be a good fit for my 6 year old, too. We both like Doodling Dragons, and it is more open and go than Sound Beginnings though a little too slow for my 8 year old, but the lessons are pretty long. I am thinking I will potentially be more consistent with a program that requires less "fiddling". I just don't have much patience with fiddly things
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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Lindsay, don't be hard on yourself. I've been there, too, and we waited a lot longer to get help than you have. Our experience with our now-11-year-old was very like yours, and I will say on the front end that the vision therapy helped a LOT. Like, life-changing a LOT. She wasn't seeing double, but I know EXACTLY what you mean about sitting in the doctor's office and running down the list of coping mechanisms. In one instance, sitting across the room, I could literally see her eyes not converging -- as the doctor brought some kind of visual aid toward her nose, one of her eyes went wandering off in another direction. (and she was 10 when we did all this, so we weren't exactly on the early-intervention wagon, either).
You might wait until the course of vision therapy is over before making any hard and fast (and expensive) decisions about what to do next. These decisions may be made clearer by the extent to which the therapy solves the problems. What I am finding is that while reading and comprehension seem to be greatly improved, it's taking us time to build up to what I would consider a normal reading load for an 11-year-old 5th grader. Her readings are still happening in very small increments, but they ARE happening, which is a huge change from last year (and it's stuff like Little Women and Jean-Henri Fabre, so not baby reading by any means).
I am seeing that her problems aren't with phonemes so much as with just literally tracking things on the page -- she can read pretty much any word if she can see it correctly, though we still have the problem of what I think is self-defeat. Sometimes she looks at a longer word and drops right back into her old coping mechanism of looking at the first letter and guessing wildly, because she figures she *can't* read it, because in the old days her eyes wouldn't track through it correctly and it's all too easy to stay stuck in that mode of expectation. Here just having her read aloud to me helps as much as anything, because she does have to confront those words instead of blipping over them. This is a lot more effective as a strategy now that we're not contending with her eyes' old tendency to skip forward and down, so that she'd miss most of any given line of text.
Dictation is helping, too, with what used to be wildly erratic spelling.
But really, I think for now I would just concentrate on the course of therapy. There will be things for you to do at home, and you may find that that's about as much as you CAN do for the time being, in the way of targeted, mom-intensive work. And as Julia said, at the end you may find that you don't need anything else, other than to go on reinforcing the skills learned through therapy. This might not be the case, but you probably won't know what issues you might be left with until the visual-processing issues are sorted.
Sally
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SallyT
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Oh, I wasn't reading carefully -- I missed that you're already halfway through therapy! (hm, maybe I need vision therapy) I think I'd still give it time, and see this through, then discern what needs to happen next.
Sally
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Aagot
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I was just listening to Andrew Pudewa at IEW. He was giving a talk about writing but included a story of his, then, 10 year old dyslexic son. He still could not read but Andrew figured he could write so he made a deal with him. Son had to copy any 100 words of his choosing every day (he started with an Usborne book about Knights). He could earn a penny per correct word. If completed in 20 mins, bonus of .25 cents. If any complaining, 10cents per incident (could go negative). At first it was purgatory but he soon got better, neater, faster, to the point where he was asking to do more (the money was set aside for an airsoft purchase).
In any event, his reading therapist was really impressed with the progress the son was making in learning to read and attributed much of it to the copy work. seeing and replicating correctly written words helped him sort through the trouble dyslexia was causing.
Might give that a try.
Also, if he has any auditory issues (can't hear the distinction between vowels, can't hear all the sounds in a word), try earobics
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CrunchyMom
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That is a great idea! Especially since I am losing our handwriting practice if I drop Sound Beginnings.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 05 2015 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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I really think that copywork is how my vision-therapy kid learned to read at all. Even before I knew for sure that something was "off," I was intuiting that that was how she was best processing written language, to read it -- by the act of writing.
She still hates to read, or says she does -- it's hard to tell how much is hormonal 11-year-old girl, and how much is real at this point. But she loves to write. Intermediate Language Lessons is her favorite thing ever. Spelling is still not her strong suit, but it's much, much better -- like in the realm of the intelligible.
I'm still kind of watching to see what the hates-reading business is about, whether it's just an entrenched attitude, or whether it's something that needs additional help beyond the scope of our regular schoolwork. She made great progress in vision therapy, but I do need to be vigilant to ensure that we don't regress.
Meanwhile, everything Jen has detailed has been very, very helpful. Habits of copywork, dictation, and narration have been good for this child. I like Jen's suggestion to keep everything "clean" and minimal, too. AND I wonder about that font that the guy has supposedly developed to be readable for dyslexics -- I haven't investigated this (or even what's available in that font), but wonder what the possibilities are for using it in homeschool work.
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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That is very helpful. He loves writing letters to people, so I really should build on that more, taking his dictation and having him copy it. He writes most often to his aunt who actually taught my dh 4th grade, homeschooled her 9 children for many years and is now the principal at the Catholic gradeschool where dh attended! She writes *beautiful* letters back to him. 
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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My vision-therapy kid is also my most enthusiastic letter-writer. She has had a pen pal in Belgium (daughter of a friend) for the last two years, and they write back and forth enthusiastically. All of this really, really helps -- any way to engage with the written word positively and competently is a good thing.
Sally
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3ringcircus
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This thread is so timely! G is now 9 and hasn't outgrown making weird errors as he looks at words. His comprehension is amazing, but his ability to actually figure out the words is erratic enough that he can't fly solo (adds sounds, confuses letter-order). His tutor confirmed that it's beyond the typical "slower-paced boy" situation.
Any specific recommendations? The tutor knows a dyslexia specialist who could do an eval. for that disorder in particular. Or, I could go with the referral the pedi. gave me to a behavioral pediatrician who I assume would refer us to a psychologist for a longer battery of tests.
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MichelleW
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Christine,
My dyslexic son also has a visual processing disorder, so none of the suggestions above worked for him. If you can afford it, I would say the more information you can gather on your child the better.
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CrunchyMom
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I thought I would come and update for anyone else who might be interested.
First off, we are finished with Vision Therapy! My son is still working on the computer program and a couple of exercises at home until our next check-up with the doctor this summer.
Next, we LOVE Dancing Bears. It is such a great fit for my son. It isn't flashy--looks a lot like Explode the Code in that regard but without many illustrations.
It is hard to describe, but I think it is the perfect cross between a program like Explode the Code and a full -on Orton-Gillingham program, especially if you use Dancing Bears for reading and Apples and Pears for spelling.
My son improved so much with Dancing Bears, I went ahead and ordered Apples and Pears. It offers a lot more practice that is more OG. For instance, there is practice with dictation, but there is more hand-holding early on since there are traceable letters available to choose from. This is ideal for a child stuggling with dygraphia or simply has less fine motor control.
After having struggled with Sound Beginnings and some experience with Logic of English, I really think these programs take what is best from the OG method but simplifies it enough that the struggling child experiences success right away. It also offers a lot of overlap and repetition as the lessons progress but things switch up (again, in a similar way the lessons change up in Explode the Code) so that it doesn't *feel* boring or repetitive.
In fact, I think that I will finish up the introduction of all the phonemes in LOE Foundations with my 6 year old and then switch to this for him as well. I just love how open and go it is!
Also, there are tracking exercises in the spelling program that are exactly like the tracking exercises my son was doing for vision therapy, so I like that it seems to be addressing multiple areas relevant to my sons needs.
It is a British program and does use an Italic font, but their reasoning is that separate letters rather than connected with cursive is better for phoneme awareness.
Anyway, it was completely off my radar until I'd despaired and dug for it, and I really wish I'd known about it when I first started looking for programs for this child! I thought I would post about it in case it was a help to others looking for a simple way to teach or reinforce reading and find programs with a host of manipulatives overwhelming and difficult to implement.
One caveat I will offer is that some find the stories annoying or vulgar. For instance, one of the first stories is "Tim the Dim Cop" which isn't exactly an edifying tale, lol. I think that it is because the books are written with the older, remedial student in mind who would be bored with the Dick and Jane fare you find in most reading programs meant for preschoolers and young elementary. You can see sample pages of all the books in whole on the website to see if the stories bother you. They don't come that often, and really, you could probably skip them and use another set of readers for those pages.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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Here is a link to the Sound Foundations website where you can order the program. Don't be put off by the unsophisticated look of things. Like I said, it isn't flashy (which I think is actually a good thing for many dyslexics who are distracted by all the "pretty" in flashier programs), but it is very effective.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: Dylexia: some insights please?
