Oh, Dearest Mother, Sweetest Virgin of Altagracia, our Patroness. You are our Advocate and to you we recommend our needs. You are our Teacher and like disciples we come to learn from the example of your holy life. You are our Mother, and like children, we come to offer you all of the love of our hearts. Receive, dearest Mother, our offerings and listen attentively to our supplications. Amen.



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Becky Parker
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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 6:26am | IP Logged Quote Becky Parker

This is a difficult question for me to ask and I hope I word it correctly, but how do you know if your child has special needs? My ds will be 5 in 2 weeks and he is very socially behind. His speech is okay, his muscle coordination is good, he's the sweetest kid in the world...but he doesn't do very well socially. He also has some other problems, like wetting/soiling his pants frequently. I'm not doing a good job of explaining this...perhaps an example...
Yesterday, we were getting ready to go to our State Capitol Building for a Right to Life Rally. This was a big deal. We didn't do any school work and I had lots of things to get ready since I helped with the organization of the rally...so things were a little tense. Well, just before we were getting ready to leave, this ds soiled his pants and then went back to his bedroom where he tried to hide it, and made quite a mess. Well, I did get upset, and just asked him, rather sternly, why he didn't just go to the bathroom. He had no answer. Anyway, we changed his pants, cleaned up as best we could and headed for the rally. While we were there, he was all over the place, laying on the floor, rolling around, running up and down the halls etc. My poor dh was with me (thank God) and he was just sweating buckets trying to keep this little guy out of trouble. When we got home, at bedtime, ds was playing with some army guys in bed. DH and I went in to pray with him and it was like he was in his own little world. He barely acknowledged we were there. I know he is not "bad", contrary to what my brother seems to think ("he just needs a good spanking"). But he is very difficult to figure out. I'm wondering if I should talk to a professional... Any advice?
I should also add that we have 3 other children. We do not spoil our kids and we do discipline them when it is necessary. In the case of this little guy, no method of discipline has seemed to work. He just doesn't seem to understand consequences at all.
Becky
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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 7:20am | IP Logged Quote MEBarrett

I would suggest getting him evaluated. If nothing else it will give you peace of mind.   

At five years old he is too old to use your state's early intervention program. You would have to go to your local school district for a special ed evaluation. They won't give you a diagnosis but they will tell you if he is developmentally delayed.

That's the freebie route.

I would suggest talking to your pediatrician and asking for a few names. I use a pediatric nuerologist but a pediatric pyschiatrist can also evaluate and diagnose.

If his speech and motor skills have developed well then chances are he is fine and maybe just very immature. If it is something (maybe a sensory problem, which can manifest itself in all kinds of strange behaviors, as can allergies and food intolerances) the quicker you find out - the better.

Good luck and I will pray for a good outcome!


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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 8:10am | IP Logged Quote Courtney

I would also check your state's laws about public school services. In Texas when I was working as a Speech Pathologist, any child that needed speech and was 3-21 could get it free in the district. Since about 1999, the state of Texas no longer covers those children who are not public schooled. In other words, if your child is homeschooled or private schooled, then the service is no longer free. I think it's rather silly since we still pay big school taxes, but that's the law here now. You may want to check on this in your state. If it's not free, you may as well go the private route IMHO.

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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 9:01am | IP Logged Quote Elizabeth

I second Mary Ellen's advice. I would try to have the testing done privately, if at all possible. Start keeping a journal. Write down what he's eating, what's going on in the environment around him, and his behaviors. All that information will help the evaluation process.

Try to tune out comments like your brother's. Until you've lived with a child like this, it's much too easy to watch the behavior and chalk it all up to bad parenting. Some kids really are wired differently. And honestly, children with sensory problems are the las kids in the wrold who would respond well to spanking!

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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 11:43am | IP Logged Quote Dawn

Hi Becky,

My youngest is delayed (speech, some gross motor) and was recently given a diagnosis of PDD-NOS. His therapists do not believe he is autistic, but felt the label would help secure services.

Because we plan to homeschool our son (along with his older brothers) the advice was given to us by many to keep the public school out of the loop. It might end up intefering in some way down the line, especially if we sign an IEP.

For now, Riley is in weekly speech and twice-weekly occupational therapy (private, although covered partially by our HMO). We have also begun working on skills and behavior at home, and we keep him on the Feingold diet as much as possible as that seems to help. Riley's diet definitely can disrupt his behavior. He had munchkins last Friday at our coop and we saw a different child all weekend and even up till today! More edgy, sensitive and resistant.

We have had similar experiences to yours at the Capitol Building (a particularly awful one at the Zoo last summer!). Those situations can happen to anyone, but when you are worried that there is something more to it, it is even harder to withstand.

It does helps to get professional opinions -- and start on therapy if it is advised -- but keep in mind, very often a "diagnosis" is given in a 45-minute time frame and, in the case of our son, on a particularly bad day when waiting around, performing for strangers, and following directions was not on his "agenda" !

I am rambling, but I know what it is like to be wondering and worrying, and I remember how hard it was to start talking about those worries. I hope this has helped a little. Good luck!

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Becky Parker
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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 11:55am | IP Logged Quote Becky Parker

Thank you for the helpful advice everyone. I think I will start by taking him to the pediatrician. Maybe he can recommend where I should go for testing. I really have no idea. Can I ask what PDD-NOS stands for?
Thanks!
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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 1:12pm | IP Logged Quote mom3aut1not

PDD-NOS is a diagnosis on the autism spectrum for a child who *almost* meets the criteria for autism. IIRC with the DSM IV, a child much meet 6 of 12 criteria sufficiently to be dxed autisitc. But what about a child who has 5 sufficiently and 1 sort of? For all practical purposes the child is mildly autistic, but doesn't quite meet the criteria.... One of my dd's is legally dxed pddnos, but that is because her stereotypies are 1) relatively quiet and 2) just before the dx, she had not shown much in the way of stereotypies. Right after the dx she did of course!

I should add that she is very similar to my fully autistic dd and ds. She has the least sensory involvement, the ds has the worst language skills, and she is the least willing to go out of her comfort zone. In speech and language testing and social skills evals, my two autstic dd's are amost identical.So the line between pddnos and mild autism is rather fuzzy.

As for where you should go, that depends on where you live, your insurance, etc. I can give definite recommendations if you live in the MD area.... Also, take any evals with a grain of salt -- some people don't know what they are doing. If you recognize your child in the evaluation, then use it. Also ask for specifc ideas or goals you can use.

As for the whole pddnos/autism thing..... How are his social skills normally? Can he read body language? Facial expressions? Does he give eye contact readily? Does he understand that people cry usually when they are upset? Does he have a concept of "personal space"? How does he interact with his peers? Does he have a clue? Does he have interests that are unusual in type or intensity? Does he have rituals that must be adhered to? Must certain things be the same always? (It took yeats for my now 20 yo dd to accept cotton knit night gowns that were not made by Land's End and purple. She has branched out to blue cotton knit night gowns from LE for summer and white flannel nightgowns from LL Bean for winter. This took about 6 years....)

These are things my kids could not do without help or took a while. I had to formally instruct my 18 yo dd as a child that people cry (usually) when they are unhappy, and thus it is wrong to laugh. She wasn't cruel; she didn't understand. When she did, she was aghast that people would let a baby cry.

Does this help?

In Christ,
Deborah
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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 2:15pm | IP Logged Quote MEBarrett

Ditto to everything Deborah said.

Reading faces is a good clue, as well as eye contact. Ryan was unable to do either. He still has difficulty reading faces or situations and inferences are a mystery to him. Children with developmental delays don't usually point to things either.

PDD/NOS = Pervasive Developmental Disorder/Not Otherwise Specified.



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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 3:24pm | IP Logged Quote KC in TX

Everyone here has given you great input. I went the route of a developmental pediatrician. The one we use is awesome and is one of the only ones that work for a military hospital. We are so blessed to be here to receive his care. My oldest is like yours in that in places and situations like the rally, he will roll around on the floor and be everywhere. The sensory input for him was too much. He coped in the only way he knew. We now know that is what is happening.

Don't listen to anyone else. I, also, have siblings who believe more discipline is needed.

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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 3:26pm | IP Logged Quote Elizabeth

A child with Sensory Integration Disorder doesn't usually have the communication "disconnect" that an autistic child will have. But he will act like you described, particularly in very active sesory places (like the zoo or a rally--lots of sights, sounds, people bumping and jostling and even smells. Throw in the weather or a delayed meal and you're in big trouble.) The entire spectrum is something I can't wait to talk to God about. My nephew is autistic; two of my children have sensory integration issues. One of them reminds my pediatrician so much of his cousing that she calls each by the other's name. But John, my nephew, is extremely difficult to integrate into family activities, where Nicholas just freaks out if I let the microwave beep or burrows if a song is too loud, or even if it's offkey . For children with sensory integration difficulties, I highly recommend Raising Your Spirited Child

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Posted: Jan 24 2006 at 11:12pm | IP Logged Quote folklaur

Elizabeth wrote:
I let the microwave beep or burrows if a song is too loud, or even if it's offkey .



My ds 7, who has been diagnosed with Asperger's, would cry when I sung to him as baby Used to just break my heart, especially when I didn't understand.

We also first went to our Family Doc, who referred us to a Developmental Pediatrician. We had tried to have him evaluated before that, and it didn't go that well. I would recommend a DP if you can find one, IMHO.

Yes, ignore the comments of others as much as you can. How many times I have heard, "Oh, he's shy. He'll grow out of it." Or, even worse, "Well, if he is having problems socially should you really keep him out of school?"

Our son doesn't always fit "quite right" into the Aspie diagnosis (he was also first diagnosed with PDD-NOS). He didn't talk on target was the big thing, but everything else fit.

Oh, and just until last year, he would always point     (when he would point at all) with his thumb.

He just started Boy Scouts last week, and did great talking with the other parents there

Yes, what others have said about "intensity of interests" is a big one for us. For us, it is Bionicles 24/7.

Prayers to you!
~Laura in AZ
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Posted: Jan 25 2006 at 4:33am | IP Logged Quote Dawn

cactus mouse wrote:
Our son doesn't always fit "quite right" into the Aspie diagnosis (he was also first diagnosed with PDD-NOS). He didn't talk on target was the big thing, but everything else fit.


Laura, would you mind explaining a bit more what Asperger's is, and how your son's diagnosis was refined from PDD- NOS to AS?

As I mentioned, my 4 yo son has been dx'd with PDD-NOS because, according to the "experts," he just doesn't fit anything exactly.

His speech is delayed, and he is still learning how to jump with two feet. He hates being sung to, loves watching the same train movie again and again, and although he likes being around people, tends to play side-by-side rather than interactively. He'll follow simple directions (Riley put the cup in the sink) but if we are playing in the front yard I have to watch him like a hawk as he is apt to run into the street.

But he is the most affectionate kid in the world! He definitely knows and expresses emotions, laughs along with us and cries when someone is hurt or sad. He's the first one there with a feel-better hug. He loves to show us things, runs and gets something to show us, or says Look Mama, big truck!!

I'm sorry to go on. I guess it shouldn't matter exactly "what" it is, as long as we are targeting his challenges and working with him on them. Dh also reminds me that all his strengths are blessings to be grateful for, and whether it all means one diagnosis or another, he is still the same little boy.

I have found so much encouragement and information here ~ thank you all for listening!

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Posted: Jan 25 2006 at 6:43am | IP Logged Quote Becky Parker

Wow, thank you everyone for this great information.    He does make eye contact (although I don't recall him pointing much). He also can communicate pretty well and is physically coordinated. He does tend to get in people's space though and doesn't seem to know when "enough is enough". The other kids his age have a hard time with this. But now I'm wondering if it more sensory integration than autism. He's always been hyper sensitive about his clothing. He can't stand pants that are not sweat pants or wind pants (I don't think he likes the buttons/zippers on other pants). He also has certain shirts that he will wear. He prefers to wear shorts and t-shirts all the time (we live in Michigan!) and doesn't like any covers at night, but he's the first to get cold when outside and want to come in. When we're in the car and he is too cold or too hot he is really impatient while we adjust the temperature. He also has a hard time with loud music and when there is a lot of noise he gets upset. He deals with this by yelling or making noise of his own!
I really wish we could get a handle on this toilet thing too. It's kind of embarassing but luckily (and interesting enough) it only happens at home. It does get worse when something big is coming up. Last summer when we were getting ready to go to Florida, I think he had messes in his room everyday for a week. I know this is probably more info than you want!! I just don't know what to do about it.
Thanks for the book recommendation Elizabeth. I have heard of Raising Your Spirited Child. I think it is time to get it!
You are all so helpful. The one thing I want to add though, is that, even though this little guy can really rattle my husband and I with his behaviors, he is also the sweetest boy in the world. He is so compassionate and kind. When he gets hurt he forgives right away and when he hurts someone he apologizes sincerely. He doesn't seem to understand when others tease him...it breaks my heart really. I'm praying that my dh and I are blessed with wisdom for how to handle this one. Thank you again for all your help.
Becky
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Becky Parker
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Posted: Jan 25 2006 at 6:51am | IP Logged Quote Becky Parker

I also wanted to ask about the Feingold diet. I have read about it on line and wonder if it would help. The only problem is that this would be a very difficult diet for this ds. He LOVES all the things he would not be aloud to eat. The first thing he wants EVERY morning is an apple. If there are no apples he wants some other type of fruit. I have to guard the salad while I am making it for dinner because he tries to pick all the peppers and cucumbers out and eat them. He will carry a green pepper around and eat it like an apple - getting the little white seed everywhere! I was so happy to have a child that loves fruits and vegetables so much, and if we try the Feingold diet we will have to cut alot of that out...wont we? I guess if it really works we would try it. It will be hard though!!
Becky
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Posted: Jan 25 2006 at 9:38am | IP Logged Quote folklaur

Dawn wrote:
[QUOTE=cactus mouse]Our son doesn't always fit "quite right" into the Aspie diagnosis (he was also first diagnosed with PDD-NOS). He didn't talk on target was the big thing, but everything else fit.

Laura, would you mind explaining a bit more what Asperger's is, and how your son's diagnosis was refined from PDD- NOS to AS?


I can try

Okay, Asperger's is tricky ( and there are other moms on here who could probably do a much better job than I am about to.) Some "experts" put it on the autism scale, and some don't. The OASIS Website really has a TON of information, and I recommend it highly.

Here is an article from their website that I refer to a lot:

A More Down-to-Earth Description
by Lois Freisleben-Cook

I saw that someone posted the DSM IV criteria for Asperger's but I thought it might be good to provide a more down to earth description. Asperger's Syndrome is a term used when a child or adult has some features of autism but may not have the full blown clinical picture. There is some disagreement about where it fits in the PDD spectrum. A few people with Asperger's syndrome are very successful and until recently were not diagnosed with anything but were seen as brilliant, eccentric, absent minded, socially inept, and a little awkward physically.

Although the criteria state no significant delay in the development of language milestones, what you might see is a "different" way of using language. A child may have a wonderful vocabulary and even demonstrate hyperlexia but not truly understand the nuances of language and have difficulty with language pragmatics. Social pragmatics also tend be weak, leading the person to appear to be walking to the beat of a "different drum". Motor dyspraxia can be reflected in a tendency to be clumsy.

In social interaction, many people with Asperger's syndrome demonstrate gaze avoidance and may actually turn away at the same moment as greeting another. The children I have known do desire interaction with others but have trouble knowing how to make it work. They are, however, able to learn social skills much like you or I would learn to play the piano.

There is a general impression that Asperger's syndrome carries with it superior intelligence and a tendency to become very interested in and preoccupied with a particular subject. Often this preoccupation leads to a specific career at which the adult is very successful. At younger ages, one might see the child being a bit more rigid and apprehensive about changes or about adhering to routines. This can lead to a consideration of OCD but it is not the same phenomenon

Many of the weaknesses can be remediated with specific types of therapy aimed at teaching social and pragmatic skills. Anxiety leading to significant rigidity can be also treated medically. Although it is harder, adults with Asperger's can have relationships, families, happy and productive lives.
      

Here is another      site that explains a lot about symptoms, etc.

Jaiden was first diagnosed with PDD-NOS. I had to jump through our insurances hoops, and so had to go where they wanted to send him first. I was not impressed with this clinic. They also wanted to put him on - um, Paxil, I think? Some med or another. This was after observing him for 15 minutes.   We were like, "I don't think so." He didn't fit perfectly into any criteria, so they slapped a PDD-NOS diagnosis on him. We went back to family doc, who was now able to send him to the Developmental Ped ( which was where we had all wanted him to go to begin with.) DP work with kids like this all the time - and so have SO much more experience with all the little differences - the intake visit takes a llooonnngggg time, as they do spend so much time observing and interacting with your child, and having them do different things ( hopping, catching a ball, speech stuff, etc.)   We were really happy with the DP.

Honestly, we didn't really care that much about a diagnosis per se. Jaiden is Jaiden, kwim? But it helps to understand -- from a parental persepctive -- what is making your child tick, and if a dignosis can help with finding resources and information, than I think it is helpful.

HTH and sorry so long,
~Laura in AZ

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Posted: Feb 03 2006 at 8:11pm | IP Logged Quote mominthepark

Hi, I am new here. I have an almost 5 year old daughter who is displaying some signs of what I think is sensory integration although she has never been diagnosed; which one of the reasons I am here. She gets physically upset with smells and some noices, especially sirens. This has been going on for over a year or more. It seems to be happening more frequently, especially the smell. It is mostly to foods although not just one or two distint things. We were at Wendy's the other day and a man sat down next to us with a baked potato with broccoli and cheese. She immediately covered her nose and mouth and said "mommy, the smell". We had to leave the place. This also happens at home if I am cooking something that does't agree with her, I have to open the window and light a candle. At first I thought she was just being "bratty", but now I know that there is more to it. She gets so upset, crying. She has never been an "easy" child. She is the youngest of 3 and only 17 months younger than her brother. She has always had difficulty in the car for long trips 1&1/2 hours and she doesn't like a lot of noise she says that she gets a headache. Developmentally, she is fine, she loves ballet and soccer. Although, at ballet, she will not do "silly things".   She is a bit apprehensive socially, not always fitting in. When she was younger, going anywhere with her was usually a disaster, when she didn't want to be somewhere, she would make everyone else miserable, by scraming, acting out and just being really bad. She is getting better at this; although she still has the ability to make things hectic when we are out in public. I should also mention that she still wets at night every night.
I don't know if this is the right place to look for information, but I am really at a loss. I have heard of OT helping with sensory integration, but my daughters doctor needs a diagnosis from someone before she will refer to an OT. She recommended seeing a behavorial neurologist (BN). When I called the BN, they wanted me to make an apt. with an Autism specialist. I don't think that she has autism and don't want to waste the time making an appointment with them. She is to start school in the fall and can go to all day kindergarden; however, she can not tolerate the smells in the lunchroom. My other children go to the same school and she has been exposed the the lunchroom smells and she has to wait for me in the hallway.
Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.
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Becky Parker
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Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 4:36am | IP Logged Quote Becky Parker

Your daughter sounds so much like my ds! He is more sensitive to sounds and the way things feel than smells though. I am still not sure what direction to take. I have an appt. for him to see the pediatrician, and am hoping he can tell me where to go for further testing. Thanks to all the comments above, I've been able to observe this ds with a little more knowledge. From what I can tell, it is not autism. He doesn't do well socially but I think that is because the other kids get impatient with him when he acts out. He seems to lack in social skills but it's not because he's not connecting. To compound the problem, he gets really excited about a friend coming over and that makes him more "hyper". This leads to another dilemma...
His birthday is in two weeks and since he is turning 5 all the kids assume he is going to have a big birthday party, which has been a tradition. The only problem is, he really doesn't do well at these parties. He just goes completely bonkers. DH and I are trying to think of something else that he will enjoy ALOT to take the place of a big party here at home. I'm trying to think of a place where we could go and maybe bring a friend or two. It would have to be a place where they could run, climb etc., A park would be ideal, but not in Michigan during the month of February. DH and I both cringe at the thought of McDonalds but I'm beginning to think that might be the only option. Any thoughts on that one?
By the way, I also wanted to thank you ladies for all your help with this! Your understanding and willingness to help are such a blessing to me!
Becky
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Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 9:50am | IP Logged Quote mom3aut1not

Mominthepark,

I would like to make a couple of points.

One, a child with significant SI problems who flips out when going places or when presented with sensory offenses is not being "bad," I look at it this way; if a normal child has thus much margin (imagine two inches or so), a child with SI problems has much less (think .5 inches) and thus is is really easy for them to be pushed beyond their ability to cope. As a person with some sound sensitivities, I can testify that it can feel like being beaten with sticks and is truly overwhelming. E.g., if I am near the ocean, it is all I can do just to walk. ASking for anything beyond might get a response that would seem quite disproportionate.

Two. I have no idea whether or not your child is autisitc, but you should know that autistic kids vary greatly. Some do not seem disconnected. In fact they seem desparate for connecting with others, but have no clue how to do so. My ds is often in this situation right now. He wants to play and interact, but doesn't know how. Unfortunately, he is getting old enough that other kids are put off by his cluelessness.

In Christ,
Deborah
PS I don't have my glasses right now; please excuse any typos.
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mom3aut1not
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Joined: May 21 2005
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Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 9:55am | IP Logged Quote mom3aut1not

Sensory Integratin and the Child by Jean Ayres is a good book to understnad SI problems. The portion about autism is a little outdated in that the autistic people she writes of are now classified as severely autistic. (Only about 10% of the children now diagnosed as autistic would have been considered autistic then.) The part on tactle defensiveness I found quite enlightening when I read it years ago.

In Christ,
Deborah
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