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Patty
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| Posted: June 22 2007 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
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Hi!
I've posted a bit (mostly read) at 4Real but never in the Special Blessings forum.
We have hsed many years and have seven children, ages 7 to 23. Our 5th child, who just turned 14 in May, was diagnosed with vision problems when he was 10. His eyesight is perfect; it's not that. He had three main problems...tracking, focusing, and weak binocular vision. He had vision therapy for about 8 months, graduated from the program, and now reads chapter books.
HOWEVER...I don't think the vision problems were the only thing wrong. The vision therapists thought they were, and that therapy would correct everything for him.
It DID help., but...after several years this boy still struggles, particularly with writing and spelling. When he writes you'd swear it was Dutch, not English. Spelling programs don't seem to help much. I'm not sure what will! I think the reason he is so reluctanct to write is that he can't spell. How frustrating for him!!! I'm thinking he has a problem with visual memory and sequencing the letters. Not sure what to do.
Does anyone here have suggestions? He'll be starting 9th grade soon, and I'm seriously considering enrolling him in a program. I was thinking of Kolbe, since it sounds like it would fit our family. They are very flexible.
Please tell me what you would do...any programs for helping poor spellers...or if you have experience with Kolbe or another program you've really liked. I welcome all suggestions and ideas.
God bless,
Patty
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 24 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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Patty:
No specific advice except to say that your post could have been mine. My 13 yo ds had diagnosed vision problems (first therapy was around 9, I think) that were corrected, we thought - but then he always ended up with binocularity problems again. I know this doc is good as the same problems have been totally corrected in 3 of our other children and hugely improved in another. This 13 yo was diagnosed with visual memory problems at the same time as the other problems (games like concentration, can help and some other lists of things - I'll try to go back and see if I can find the suggested lists of things to do) but the bottom line is that visual memory problems seem hard to correct if the eye problem being corrected doesn't just correct it. The one thing we did for our dd who had similiar problems and diagnosed around 10, was to put her in piano about when the vision therapy was completed. I don't know if this forced her to use both hands together and was maybe why everything clicked for her - or if it was just that in her case vision was the root problem whereas with our son, maybe the root is something else that also affected his vision. She never sounded like much on the piano and didn't end up liking it all that much - but at the time we put her in, she requested it and it did seem to help.
Our vision therapist suggested some things along the lines of neuronet for our son who has been in therapy 3 X without the kind of improvement we all expected from past experience. Anyways, the neuronet is intensely expensive and unavailable in our area so cannot say whether this would work or not. The people we talked to either raved about the program (and were still in it 10 years later) or said it didn't help much. We decided to keep looking as it is unrealistic for us to pay that kind of money over so many years even though some info made sense. We have been researching the ideas behind some of this and looking at what is available in our area - or within a reasonable drive, so we are still in the hunting for answers stage.
We also struggle with spelling and writing. Writing Road to Reading for spelling is helpful because it makes spelling a process of logic and reasoning and not just memory - plus it relies a lot more on auditory skills. When we use it, it helps. It is mom intensive so we are not always as good about doing it. Spelling programs, in general, have been useless for him because they rely on visual memory. I'm sure there are other spelling programs that are a lot less mom intensive, that are more auditory/logical but this is the one we had and used with another dd who had the same vision problems but for whom the therapy gave a more permanent and complete correction. Her visual memory problems virtually disappeared as soon as the vision was corrected - say within about 6 mo of her final therapy - and that was about 5 years ago. It took about one year of this spelling program and everything clicked - and I will say that we saw continual signs of improvement all the time - unlike our experience with our son.
For writing - making the computer accessible for writing (the need to revise wasn't as overwhelming if he could do it on the computer), having him tell a story and me write it out, allowing the use of spellcheck(is not always helpful since his spelling is so far off at times) or another sibling (preferably an older dc who gets along very well)helps in the editing process. Also, I help correct the spelling on his paper before the rewrite (and being gentle when the rewrite is still full of misspelled words). I also have to allow long periods for writing - and he agonizes over this. He would take an entire week to do a Biology co-op lab which just involved a few sentences. He typed to make it easier to correct spelling. But I cannot say I have anything that is a painless or easy correction and we still struggle with it.
We have discovered a few things that are clues that maybe this child's struggles were deeper than vision - he will not use both hands together, his voice is pretty monotone, inferences are hard - and of course, copywork is and was immensely impossible for him to do. He was even slowed down in math starting in 5th grade because that is when all the programs have dc copy problems from the book to paper - and it took him forever. Everytime we did the whole vision thing, and were released, we'd be back in a few years almost back where we started so though I do know vision was corrected, something isn't there for those corrections to stick! We did the vision therapy for him at least twice and I think 3 X so I know it is time to look elsewhere.
We are discerning now what further things to look at. There is an offshoot of NACD that we are looking into. It is closer, is run by Christians trying to be more accomodating of homeschooling families and it seems reasonable thought expensive. I was not particularly impressed by NACD, though I did think some of the ideas of levels of development, etc. made sense and there may be a problem stemming earlier in development than the actual vision. I just want to be careful that we don't slip into the mode of chasing every charletons promise of help - some leave me with the impression of being more interested in making money off of desperate parents. We are proceeding to research with caution so I cannot say anything one way or another yet. Whatever the problem, correctable or otherwise, I want to help this child move forward at his own pace and with grace and confidence that there is a place for him in God's plans.
I've even thought of trying to entice this older into some of the sensorial materials in Montessori (since I also have a 4 yo it won't hurt to have the materials)for some of the eye hand/pre-writing skills as this is another huge area of lag. This child has never ever had a relaxed hand for writing and does not like the physical part of writing - fingers are very, very tense. He actually seems to have a tight grip on everything with a lot of stress across the board. The vision therapy did open the door long enough for him to learn and enjoy reading. I'm glad of that as this child struggles with just about everything else - and confidence becomes a real issue the longer we go without real answers. Testing in our state is a joke - even the vision testing that found our dc problem required that I step out on a limb and we demanded to go anywhere where someone could find the problem that I was sure was there (and we ended up out of state).
Sorry, I'm not much help, but I will share whatever I find out as our search proceeds. I'm hoping someone else will have ideas for you from which I can glean some pearls as well. In any case, I will remmeber you as we pray for answers for our son.
We use Kolbe and it is very writing and reading intensive so don't feel badly about modifying heavily if you use it. I think I would plan from the start to do only so many papers and then pick those (or substitute your own assignments) that seem best to you. I don't use them for transcripts so I have endless flexibility and I haven't handed in materials from my particular child with the challenges we share so I cannot speak directly there. I do mostly substitutions for this child as the print in the readers is too small for him, we do vocab and I just grade it for spelling and vocab but then we are very, very slow. He is not writing in cursive, though he knows how - but the tenseness is just too much that I don't think forcing the issue helps him as he doesn't seem to be able to get a smooth flowing script, though if I require handwriting, he will diligently do it for the time specified (takes 10 minutes for one very short sentence) and it is neat and OK. Any papers we would send in to Kolbe, would probably be typed. We use the science and math, some of the lit suggestions and the religion - but I'm a lot more flexible and don't do a lot of answer questions type things. We have substituted some CHC materials in areas and I use the Writing Road Spelling instead of the vocab spelling when I can get to it. I have him mostly read in History and am encouraging some sort of written material - even a few sentences on whatever he is reading. I know Kolbe recommended trying to get him to write something for me once per week - that is very optimistic and I know we never got there though he did more writing for the co-op that used the Padewa program so maybe there was something to that. We wrote more this year than ever before. Kolbe is kind and helpful. I think we benefit from the writing review when I use it. All my children (those even who like writing, do a better job when submitting to someone else so this might help - but speak with them very frankly before you sign up as you want to make sure it fits before you spend the money.)
Janet
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tntreefarm
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 10:25am | IP Logged
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Hi Patty
I'm new to the forum. I'll share my 2 cents worth. I have 5 children the oldest has Down Syndrome and the next a 9y.o, daughter has Asperger's and math LD. She has all sorts of visual perceptual grapho-motor problems. We began vision therapy about 6 weeks ago.
An ocupational therapist might be able to help track down the visual memory or other problems. This is what we were doing before we found out about vision therapy. An evaluation is probably covered by health insurance if ordered by fam doc or pediatrician. A great resouce although hard to find in rural area is a Developmental Pediatrician. this is a pediatrician that has taken extra studies (usually a fellowship) in development. They do not see children for well checks, colds, etc. When we finally took Jian to our local Dev. Pediatrician (who has been trying to retire for 20 years) we found local resources that we had not realized even existed. Again some or all of this should be covered by health insurance if you jump through the correct hoops- you want to make sure as it's very expensive- you are spending 3-4 hours with a physician for the initial evaulation.
I have a book Helping Children Overcome Learning Difficulites by Jerome Rosner that perhaps you can get at the library. One thing that it says that once you get over the visual problems handwriting does not improve until and if the chid can un-learn all the "bad habits" used to write previously. He recommends that children not write until their "visual" skills are that of a 4-4 1/2 year old.
My daughter does fairly well at the computer keyboard. I modified a Dr. Fry's computer keyboarding book so that she only had about 4 lines of large print to practice at a time. I next moved her to Mavis Beacon. She does OK with this but never could have started here. The computer is a great help to her with putting a space between words and using lower case and capitals correctly.
Jian has an incredible auditory memory so in the big scheme of things I haven't worried too much about spelling. But, I will tell you that Catholic Heritages spelling workbooks were an extreme source of frustration. For one, they are cluttered. For two, their grouping of words do not make sense. er, ir, ur words studied in the same lesson can be confusing.
I used Spalding last year with my son Thanh (8 y.o) a very bright and gifted speller. I found it extremelly hard to work with- even with all the things MODG said to use to help you with it. I did like the breakdown of words by phonograms and emphasis on the rules to help english spelling make sense. I knew that I could never use it for Jian as she needs a list of words to memorize that follow the same rule.
Two things that I expect to use next year are Natural
Speller which lists words by groups that make sense and refers to phonograms and also Dr. Fry's Spelling Book. the edition I have is subtitled words most needed plus phonics for grades 1-6. The book uses an order that makes sense to me. There is emphasis on phonotic rules and practice with several words that follow the same one as well as suggestions for variants of the words to challenge my comando speller. I think his books are sold through Teacher Created Resources. I have used several of his books another is Instant words- (2.000 words that you need to recognize to read "instantly" for gr 1-2.)
That's all for now. I need to do my daughter's vision therapy homework and the almost 4 year old wants to climb on my lap and type!
Peace,
Cathy
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Patty
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 9:54am | IP Logged
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Thank you, Janet and Cathy, for your ideas and for letting me know I'm not alone in this. I know I'm not, but sometimes it feels like it. I find that homeschooling moms often don't talk much about their biggest challenges, and if they do, it's after you get to know them well.
Janet...what is neuronet? That's an unfamiliar term to me. About Kolbe--yes, I know I would have to modify it for this son. The thing that really gets me down is that he is BRIGHT and verbal, with a lot to say, but the problem is putting it on paper. It is super frustrating for him.
Cathy...I'm going to check into the books you mentioned about dyslexia and also spelling and phonics.
Thanks,
Patty
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Patti:
You can find some information at NeuroNet.Inc. It basically looks at the development of pathways in the brain and uses repetitive exercises to try and establish these. Some of the information sounds reasonable - some of the stuff recommended sent up red flags to us (the $1000 light chamber sounded hokey and I am cautious about some of this in terms of new age influences and had some warning bells go off with the closest neuronet to us (3 hours away).
NACD is also on-line and it has some really neat ideas. Our problem with them is that they are not local, they fly in occassionally for seeing the child and you make an appointment for 3 hours away and they can change it on you at the last minute - and they even suggested that videotaping would suffice. Well, I'm sorry, but paying that kind of money, they better be seeing my child in person and listening to me as well. No rescheduling of missed appointments, etc. even if due to sick child.
We found a closer offshoot of NACD(the people were trained by them but didn't like the unresponsiveness to parents who are traveling such distances) and I am supposed to travel to speak with them in July. They are supposed to be a Christian group of people - which I think means that when they make recommendations for learning aids, they aren't giving you new agey materials. I'll get a feel for how professional they are and if they respect our Catholicism when we see them. I don't know yet what our final decision will be but glad I can tag along to just see what they do.
I know exactly what you said about being bright - this child of ours is so so bright too. You suffer so much when you see them suffer.
I bought NACDs tape (actually my sis did and then I borrowed it from her) and there was a lot of information on there (not $70 worth) that rang true to me - and a lot that was so common sense it wasn't funny.
It seems that neuronet and NACD do a lot of the same things. Some differences involve the intensity and duration. NACD claims that some copycats of them do things intense and quickly and it doesn't stick. I am inclined to be leary of someone who is pushing really fast or to such a level that they expect to create anger in your child (not that they do it on purpose but the intensity is going to kind of put the child out of control). NACD didn't seem this way, the neuronet person we spoke to did. I'd rather go at a gentler pace and do it a little longer. We are still thinking and discerning what to do.
The idea behind both is that you provide enough meaningful stimulation/ exercise to help the brain create pathways that failed to form at the usual time. They also help you design some academic plans that consider the specific child. It is slower and less efficient when you are out of the young period - but with enough intensity, repetition, it is doable. There was a chart about the levels of development in terms of pathways for language, auditory and vision and balance/motor - things like establishing dominance (not sure I buy this part but am thinking about it) and if something is lacking, in order to have meaningful work, you must get to the level at which things broke down. There was a lot that rang true. If you PM me and would like to borrow the DVD, I could ask my sis about loaning it to you.
Kolbe has been very flexible, so you shouldn't have problems with them on that point. Some things they suggested as sample work, included timeline instead of papers (and you can do this with lots of pictures printed from the computer). They suggested we not do the questions at end of chapter stuff. They are not particularly familiar with the particular problems we deal with, but they respect my judgement if there is something that just won't work. They even told me about a magnifying sheet that office supply stores sells - it is 8 1/2 by 11 so that it could be used to magnify print in books etc.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Special Blessings
Topic: 14yo w/ lang. arts difficulties
