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Roma
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| Posted: June 03 2008 at 1:46pm | IP Logged
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chicken lady wrote:
Welllllllll.... there are ALOT of orthodox catholics who have major concerns about Mr Wests interpretation of The Theology of the Body.
Not to cause an issue, but rather let you all know that there are serious reasons I would repel from this. |
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i was searching for more on this and even read the entire 7 page thread that was referenced on this thread and found nothing. could someone please post what the concerns are
thank you
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mathmama
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| Posted: June 03 2008 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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Roma wrote:
chicken lady wrote:
Welllllllll.... there are ALOT of orthodox catholics who have major concerns about Mr Wests interpretation of The Theology of the Body.
Not to cause an issue, but rather let you all know that there are serious reasons I would repel from this. |
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i was searching for more on this and even read the entire 7 page thread that was referenced on this thread and found nothing. could someone please post what the concerns are
thank you |
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I am in the same boat as you. I really wish someone would just say what the issue is. All I am getting is that I am in some way less than Catholic for liking the CW stuff I have read. I do not consider myself in anyway a cafeteria Catholic. I love the Church and embrace all of Her teachings. I consider myself an orthodox Catholic and I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback by the assumption that those who like CW's material are in some way less than orthodox.
Beth
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gwendyt
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 8:26am | IP Logged
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Yes - somebody please enlighten us who are still in the dark... CW's tape Marriage and the One Flesh Union is at the top of my list favorite!
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Wendy
Married to DH Joe 18 yrs., 8 beautiful children - 2 girls, 6 boys (14,12,9,7,5,3,1,newbie born 3/1/2010)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 12:01pm | IP Logged
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Since there is a pause in the posting here, I'll share a few things that I hope will be helpful if not a direct answer to you Roma, Beth, and Wendy.
Stef has clarified that the program she is learning about isn't connected to CW. This might explain, in part, why there aren't any takers on discussing CW.
Chicken lady would be in the best position to clarify her concerns, but she is no longer a member of this board.
Stef shared a link to a prior discussion about CW so members who posted there may not feel like sharing further.
Having participated in online communities for some time, I have found that some topics are just more sensitive and inclined to heat up than others. *TOB interpretations* is one of these topics. Some members may choose to stay away from it for this reason.
On Matters of Faith none of us are experts. I appreciate when members are cautious about what they share regarding sensitive topics connected to our faith. I am sorry that vague sweeping statements were made without sharing specific concerns. This leaves room for needless misunderstandings, confusion, and hurt feelings.
I have no experience with the program in question here or with the material of CW. Fortunately, no Catholic is dependent upon any particular interpretation of TOB, although we may be blessed by one. We can go straight to our beloved Pope John Paul II.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Roma
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
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thanks for your reply Angie. I hope this doesn't appear that I'm trying to step on toes or start a debate, because I'm not. I'm truly just curious.
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| Stef shared a link to a prior discussion about CW so members who posted there may not feel like sharing further. |
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i did read this thread and although there was a very hot topic in that thread CW was never mentioned negatively or in relation to that topic, so that is why I posted further. His name came up only briefly and it was very neutral, unless I missed something. BTW I did find that thread a great read and it gave me lots to think about  .
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 4:01pm | IP Logged
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You are right, Roma, I wasn't careful with my words. As stef stated more clearly in her original link description, that topic mentions CW, and it is not a discussion of his work.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Willa
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| i did read this thread and although there was a very hot topic in that thread CW was never mentioned negatively or in relation to that topic, so that is why I posted further. His name came up only briefly and it was very neutral, unless I missed something. BTW I did find that thread a great read and it gave me lots to think about |
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I don't think we know exactly what recent posters found questionable about Christopher West's interpretation since no specific criticisms were made. So in light of that, it's important to remember that if a member has a negative impression of a resource, it is important to back it up. Any criticisms should not be directed towards the personal faith of anyone, but rather, at the content of the resource itself. For the record, I don't think anyone has criticized West's orthodoxy nor the orthodoxy of those who love his work; rather, any concerns may be more targeted towards how he interprets and applies the Pope's teachings in this matter.
All the TOB resources are lay interpretations of Pope John Paul's informal talks on the Theology of the Body . These talks, which Angie linked to above, have been a rich source of thinking for the Church, but the development and applications are in a very early stage right now.
If there is a concern that I've heard about C West's interpretation of the Theology of the Body, it is a question whether some of his specific examples are TMI -- too explicit and detailed. I believe that this criticism would be targeted more towards the books for married couples -- I am not familiar with the TOB material for teens.
There is obviously some reason for bluntness in our day when society's thinking on human intimacy is so warped and Catholic teachings are often trying to repair damage that has already been done. Yet there is also a necessity to protect and shield the delicate privacy at the heart of the marital relationship. If you read Pope John Paul's talks, they show a beautiful, tender approach to the mysterious and holy nature of this subject.
Here are some general guidelines, not specifically targeted to this issue, but to be kept in mind when discerning these types of questions.
John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation for the Family
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Education in love as self-giving is also the indispensable premise for persons called to give their children a clear and delicate sex education. ...
Sex education, which is a basic right and duty of parents, must always be carried out under their attentive guidance whether at home or in educational centers chosen and controlled by them. |
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Pontifical Council for the Family -- Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
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Para. 127
(4) No one should ever be invited, let alone obliged, to act in any way that could objectively offend against modesty or which could subjectively offend against his or her own delicacy or sense of privacy. |
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These parameters are, as I understand it, meant to safeguard the delicacy and purity of a young person's mind and heart, while not dismissing the need for clarity as well. They are to be kept in mind whenever examining a resource for family education, but the emphasis upon the subjective element (for the child) and the high responsibility (of the parents) implies that we will rightly decide these things in slightly different ways according to our family's circumstances.
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Willa
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Willa
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 4:20pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
I don't think we know exactly what recent posters found questionable about Christopher West's interpretation since no specific criticisms were made. So in light of that, it's important to remember that if a member has a negative impression of a resource, it is important to back it up.
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Oh, I hope that what I wrote was clear!
I was talking about the original problem. Some concerns were posted in such general terms that it apparently left members confused and wondering if their orthodoxy had been questioned. I was writing out the general guidelines for criticisms, just for future reference in these tricky topics. Not criticizing you for questioning, Roma or others -- questions are always welcome, particularly when there are doubts about what was meant. In fact, that is exactly what Ignatius says to do in cases of doubts -- "inquire what the person meant by what he said". That was what you were doing.
Hopefully that made sense! Let me know if it didn't  .
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Roma
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| Posted: June 04 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| If there is a concern that I've heard about C West's interpretation of the Theology of the Body, it is a question whether some of his specific examples are TMI -- too explicit and detailed. |
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thank you Willa.  That helps a lot. that also fits with one topic in the other thread about chaste couples taking NFP classes. And I wanted to add I never felt like my orthodoxy was attacked, I just really wanted to know what the concern was.
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CatholicMommy
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I was browsing through to see if there has been past discussion on this program.... We are currently using for our parish high schoolers (all public schooled children) and I attended the all-day training session our archdiocese sponsored and Jason Evert was the "trainer" - he answered a LOT of questions and gave his advice for the program's usage by homeschoolers and such....
If anyone is interested, I would love to answer any questions - either on here or through PM. I definitely don't recommend the program in entirety to homeschooling families as a general rule of thumb, because there ARE pieces that are really more geared for what a public school child is more likely exposed to (locker room talk, experiences, and the like), however the main content is really great. I have two homeschooling families in our parish who are using it and they have shared with me which parts they've cut or modified - and they really like it, as far as bringing the teachings of TOB to a very practical level.
My son will definitely do this program when he's older - but likely the "adapted" version
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donnalynn
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I did get to browse a copy of one the student books just briefly - I guess my very initial impression is that the book I saw approaches many topics as if teens are already "active" and need healing - I may have gotten the wrong impression but would like to know more as our Confirmation program ((9th and 10th graders)uses this.
Thanks.
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LisaR
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CatholicMommy wrote:
| I definitely don't recommend the program in entirety to homeschooling families as a general rule of thumb, because there ARE pieces that are really more geared for what a public school child is more likely exposed to (locker room talk, experiences, and the like), however the main content is really great. I have two homeschooling families in our parish who are using it and they have shared with me which parts they've cut or modified - and they really like it, as far as bringing the teachings of TOB to a very practical level. |
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I want to warn everyone to be careful to lump homeschooled families/teens into being "safe" for our children and school families/kids to be more risky.
My two older sons were both exposed to some truly horrifying things by way of a few Catholic homeschooled teen boys.
It is important to be on our guard, and to be vigilant, no matter what.
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Theology of the Body for Teens
