| Author | |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Ran out of space there...should be design your own curriculum.
Here's the question...I have been thinking about this a good deal, and since this question was posed, I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss this in more depth.
So, for those of you with college kids, did you use a curriculum provider? I wonder which makes a better impression on college admissions officers--a solid record from a provider, or a self-educated student who designed his own curriculum? I ask because I have seen kids with really good grades from a provider get rejected from "better" schools recently.  I have never used a provider, but I do have two more high schoolers to go. I don't think I can use Libby as an example as 1)we only have one college result in, and 2)applying to conservatories is a bit different from applying to college.
Thoughts? Statistics? Other info?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5595
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm not sure I'm a good example either, because soccer figured into Michael's equation. We went solely on our own design and used a homemade transcript and portfolio. I learned a lot on the fly and had absolutely no support. He got into 5 out of six schools. I think the best example I've seen though, was a portfolio of a good student who designed her own curriculum and then ran it through Kolbe. She did a portfolio with all her booklists and her writing samples and rec letters, excellent SAT scores etc, but she also had that official Kolbe transcript. It was the best of both worlds.
For us, I know the support of Kolbe would have been helpful, if for nothing else, in getting him certified with NCAA Clearinghouse.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maria B.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 16 2006
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 544
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 1:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My first, and only one to go off to college so far, chose the Naval Academy. I can tell you if your student is considering one of the military academies, using a curriculum provider with accredidation is the best route to go. We used MODG.
My second college bound child is now a junior. Right now, we are "out on our own." I am considering enrolling in Kolbe. They appear to be a bit more flexible than MODG.
__________________
Maria in VA
Proud Mom to 10 Great kids!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 2:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MacBeth wrote:
| ...a self-educated student who designed his own curriculum? |
|
|
I love this, MacBeth.  It so describes my oldest.
Since he didn't go straight into college, our experience probably isn't what you're looking for but, perhaps, it'll benefit someone.
I began Corey in high school with STAA but they were pickier than our fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants (ie: creative unschooling) learning style could meet. Not much of his learning was ever at home sitting at the table...though I tried. I really tried. It was in PawPaw's shop, outside, on a boat, at his uncle's house, in the field, and in co-op classes.
His last year of high school was spent on job training, technical school, Geometry co-op class, free library offerings, and Apologia Chemistry and literature assigned by me. He also took the ACT tests several times trying to score higher...but the poor kid just doesn't score high. I put together his transcript and booklists in a portfolio.
Somehow he learned (he was an honor-roll student during the early years of high school when he returned to school) and is now doing so well with his night classes right.
We just talked about this last night. He was saying how much better it is for the parents to give the child time to figure out his need for higher learning. He sees too many young adults in his classes who just don't care about their education, their life, their future. His view is ironic because I stressed so much over putting that portfolio together. I totally sweated it!  Only for him to get a good job and, a year later, decide to take night classes. He went to the office, filled out the papers, paid the tuition, and did everything on his own.
Mark and I have literally sat back this past year and watched him go to and from work and school and nothing that I ever worried about (or did) for him has amounted to a hill of beans. He's doing it all on his own.
Rereading this it sounds like he's back in regular school. He's attending Sowela Technical College.
Kayleigh knows how to study and is a great test-taker. No sweat there. Even had I graduated her from home, she would have filled out all the paperwork on her own. She's just that type. And her ACT score alone would have gotten her into any college she desires.
For Garrett I've been using DYOCC. Not MODG because I have trouble with my accountability to someone else's schedule and syllabus. DYOCC can be twicked and tweaked with dh and I left in charge...and I don't have to fill out forms showing the changes.  I'm not sure Garrett is college material either but he could be. I always give my children credit for being able to do it if they set their mind to it. I'm just not sure which direction Garrett will go. So I'm undecided if I should register him with MODG next year or just continue using our own highlighted version of DYOCC...which has worked incredibly well this year.
MacBeth wrote:
| So, for those of you with college kids, did you use a curriculum provider? |
|
|
I always figured a solid record from a provider would count more favorably. Of course, here in LA it all comes down to the ACT score. One of our hsers scored a 30 and he got scholarship offers from all over the state. He had the pick-of-the-crop and is attending college for free now. They used either Our Lady of Victory or Our Lady of the Rosary...I forget which.
So perhaps it is different in each state...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't use a provider - we definitely have the self educated kids here, designing their own curriculum with the input of dh and I. But I am in Australia, and so I think our university entrance requirements are different. 
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Interesting question, MacBeth! I only have one college student so far -- my secondborn is more like Cay's oldest and is taking longer to figure out whether college is worth it. He will probably enter the local state university in 2009.
My oldest had no trouble getting into Thomas Aquinas College (his pick) with a self-made transcript but then (1) TAC is homeschooler-friendly (2) my oldest had a solid conventional transcript and a very good SAT score that backed up my Mom claims about his coursework.
My second and third will be more the test cases because their interests were -- I don't know what to say, not lighter, but more independently focused and less like a standard high school course sequence.
My husband and I both tend to feel that we are homeschooling in high school partly so that the kids can develop and follow their own interests. We do pay attention to the standard college prep recommendations, but we try to make it not JUST about that.
In the past we've been enrolled with Kolbe on and off, and that is my favorite pick for curriculum provider because of their flexibility and their philosophy. My second pick would be MODG because I like their curriculum choices, but I know I couldn't handle very much oversight and supervision in my homeschool.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Willa wrote:
In the past we've been enrolled with Kolbe on and off, and that is my favorite pick for curriculum provider because of their flexibility and their philosophy. |
|
|
I'm reading this over and over again but I had the opposite experience when we began hsing. Corey was entering 4th grade and I enrolled with Kolbe. The curricula was way over his head. Again, he is by far not a classical schooler (and perhaps I'm not a strong task master myself  ) but it was not a good fit. I wonder if it was just the child or if Kolbe is more flexible now.
Willa wrote:
| I know I couldn't handle very much oversight and supervision in my homeschool. |
|
|
Oh, good! It isn't just me. I'm as bad as the kids. I hate someone hanging over my shoulder when I'm trying to work.
Seriously, what records does Kolbe require now?
My best friend used Kolbe throughout her ds's hsing and she has always sung their praises. But her son was inside reading like Padre Pio while my son was tramping through the woods like Henry David Thoreau, so Kolbe was a better fit for them. A lot of the subject matter he takes at St. Ben's in Covington (near N.O.) is the same subject matter he took through Kolbe. They are well pleased with everything Kolbe offered.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 7:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Maria B. wrote:
My first, and only one to go off to college so far, chose the Naval Academy. I can tell you if your student is considering one of the military academies, using a curriculum provider with accredidation is the best route to go. We used MODG.
|
|
|
Maria, did you talk to admissions people at Navy before you enrolled, or did you just figure you'd be safe?
Anyone else gone the military school route, private or federal?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: March 05 2008 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The college dd18 wanted (and the onlyone she wanted...) is also homeschool friendly.
They wanted a transcript - generated by me was fine. She had taken some classes at the local high school (Chem, Band) and she also had taken some at the local Community College, and so along with those grades, and her scores on the ACT, I guess it "backed up" the grades I had for her for her classes.
We didn't have to do a portfolio or anything. They didn't even ask for what books we used...just what classes she took, the grades/credits she got, and a GPA.
We never really used a curriculum. Well, okay, we used Sonlight, but that is mainly History/Lit, and it isn't accredited, you don't sign up with them, anything like that....
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maria B.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 16 2006
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 544
|
| Posted: March 06 2008 at 9:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
MacBeth wrote:
Maria B. wrote:
My first, and only one to go off to college so far, chose the Naval Academy. I can tell you if your student is considering one of the military academies, using a curriculum provider with accredidation is the best route to go. We used MODG.
|
|
|
Maria, did you talk to admissions people at Navy before you enrolled, or did you just figure you'd be safe?
Anyone else gone the military school route, private or federal? |
|
|
MacBeth, we did not specifically ask admissions about whether or not they required an accredited program. I do know that based on the information they wanted from us and the constant communication, they were interested in anything that could "validate" or substantiate his grades from home, i.e. SAT scores, community college classes. In fact, I would guess that had he not taken a few community college classes and received top grades there, he would have had a much harder time even being considered. Again, though, acceptance to the military academies is a long process other than the application. Nominations, interviews, athletics, etc. are a huge factor for them as well. If this is something your son or daughter is interested in, I would recommend that they not only strive for excellent grades, but also sports and any extra curricular activity where they can assume a leadership role.
Hope this helps.
__________________
Maria in VA
Proud Mom to 10 Great kids!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: March 06 2008 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
| I'm reading this over and over again but I had the opposite experience when we began hsing. Corey was entering 4th grade and I enrolled with Kolbe. |
|
|
I haven't ever used their curriculum or lesson plans exactly as written, and sometimes I diverge quite widely. Kolbe has been fine with me designing my own courseplans as long as I sent in samples (a sort of portfolio) to validate the grades we sent in for the kids.
Their philosophy is that of subsidiarity -- that the parents are in charge of the education and the school is there to support that---
Quote:
| The Principle of Subsidiarity states that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization that can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization (Pope Pius XI’s Quadragesimo Anno). Nowhere has this found greater expression than in the home schooling movement. Kolbe Academy Home School has embraced the principle of subsidiarity by offering an educational program that you implement in your home. We are not a correspondence program. With Kolbe, you are the teacher and are truly in charge of your children’s education. This is in keeping with the dictum of Pope John Paul II that “the parents have been appointed by God Himself as the first and principal educators of their children...their right is completely inalienable” (Familiaris Consortio 40). |
|
|
I guess in that way it operates just a bit like Clonlara or NARS though obviously without the unschooly feel.
Cay, our homeschools sound quite a bit alike in many ways!
I only have one child enrolled in Kolbe at present -- my 8th grader, who is going to the local high school next year -- I thought they might need to see some type of transcript but in fact it was just a matter of walking in and filling in a bunch of papers -- no past records needed (at least not so far).
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
StephanieA
Forum Pro
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: March 07 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Here in MO, like LA, the ACT is just about everything.
The local university will either accept a transcript or GED score. However, scholarships are based strictly on the ACT, except full-ride scholarships which require scoring in the top 3% on the GED. Son #1 received a scholarship strictly on his ACT score and basically they didn't care about anything else, other than he "passed" the GED. We didn't even submit a transcript.
Son #2 looked into other colleges, including out-of-state and they were very interested in his grades that he received in his early college credit classes and some colleges required taking the SAT IIs.
I put together the kid's curriculum, but if they had not had any outside classes, then I probably would find a satellite school of some kind for junior and senior years to give the kids options to various schools and not have to worry about accountability. Son #3 doesn't test well, so we will look more for outside accountability because he will need it since his ACT score is not very high. I am toying with Kolbe, since MODG doesn't at all fit his style of learning. (In fact, Kolbe probably doesn't either, but it may be the best for his situation).
Interesting though, son #2 auditioned for a violin scholarship at SEMO (local university). Even if he scored low on the ACT, this school gives generous music scholarships for string players. So, once he academically gets in the door (required GED or ACT score), his violin would have given him $ and not much else would be asked for.
It seems as if each school is so darn different.
Blessings,
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmom
Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
| Posted: March 07 2008 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you, Macbeth, for starting this thread! I've never used a curriculum and had always assumed that I'd do the same for high school.
After reading here, and hopping over to the Kolbe site to look around, I am convinced that going with Kolbe, along with some (maybe quite a bit of) personalized tweaking, is exactly what we should do. Both dh and my 8th grade dd liked what they saw and agree.  It's good to know that something as easy as this can make the college application process go much more smoothly.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Angie Mc
Board Moderator
Joined: Jan 31 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11400
|
| Posted: March 08 2008 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Are people experiencing in real life that although a Tier 1 may not *require* an accredited diploma, etc. they prefer it?
Also, can you all share more about preparing a student athlete for college admissions? Any mamas of college baseball players out there?
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: March 08 2008 at 4:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Angie Mc wrote:
| Are people experiencing in real life that although a Tier 1 may not *require* an accredited diploma, etc. they prefer it? |
|
|
Not that I'm experienced in this at all Angie, but I was very surprised to discover when I was investigating all of this about 6 months ago that an official transcript is required for the military (academies included) and for a civil service type job - i.e. fireman, etc. Worst-case scenario, the student can submit a GED. The majority of colleges, as far as I know, are fine with a mom-generated transcript. From what you've written here, the Tier 2 & above colleges do require one? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this!
Also, I called the Director of Admissions at Christendom. He assured me that they do not require an official transcript and, like most colleges, put ALOT of weight on the SAT score. He went on to tell me that if the student achieves a certain SAT score (sorry, I don't know that #), it will save the parents $6000/year on tuition. His children are "unschooled" and do alot of reading. He had his son taking the SAT starting at 13. He told me of one student who took the SAT 5 times but eventually made the grade.
We'll be looking primarily at Christendom, Magdalen and Thomas More College so at this point, I don't see the need to sign up with anyone, unless someone here tells me differently .
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MacBeth
Forum All-Star
Probably at the beach...
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2518
|
| Posted: March 10 2008 at 1:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
BrendaPeter wrote:
We'll be looking primarily at Christendom, Magdalen and Thomas More College so at this point, I don't see the need to sign up with anyone, unless someone here tells me differently . |
|
|
There's almost an irony here. Folks who apply to these schools are often homeschoolers using curriculum providers, yet these schools don't require that one use any provider, and will happily take a parent-generated transcript. So, if you are applying to these schools, why use a provider?
It is so interesting that the military prefers a provider generated transcript. I guess it just goes to show that the government is the government is the government.
FWIW, all the schools to which Libby applied did not require a provider's transcript. Most conservatories did require SATs, though these are not required for non-homeschooled students (None of these schools is on the HSLDA list). Only one conservatory required all students to have SATs of 500 or better for each of the test parts. GEDs are happily accepted by most conservatories, which understand that many applicants have unusual backgrounds.
The two liberal arts colleges to which she applied did not request the GED, and also accepted the transcript I provided. One of these schools has already accepted her, though that school was surprised that, as a Catholic homeschooler, Libby had designed her own curriculum. But they only requested that she send a list of books she used and a grading system in addition to the transcript. Also (and again, only one result is in so far... ), Libby has had outside classes with official transcripts in music, German, and one community college science class. These were apparently given some great weight. In fact, during one audition, a judge asked her why she only got a B+ in music theory first semester of freshman year. She was horrified that he should ask, and almost "lost it" until the panel all laughed and said they were joking; what a way to break the tension!
So for those who have not used a provider, has anyone gone totally solo, and not even had outside classes? If so, who writes the recommendations?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
vmalott
Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 15 2006
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: March 10 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Angie Mc wrote:
| Also, can you all share more about preparing a student athlete for college admissions? Any mamas of college baseball players out there? |
|
|
Ooh, yeah...I'm interested in this too! DS is only 11, but he is a gung-ho serious baseball player with his eye on playing Division I.
Elizabeth, would you recommend going through a place like Kolbe to make the NCAA Clearinghouse stuff easier?
Valerie--who is getting ready for the first travel tourney of the season...goin' to Nashville, TN over Palm Sunday weekend
__________________
Valerie
Mom to Julia ('94), John ('96), Lizzy ('98), Connor ('01), Drew ('02), Cate ('04), Aidan ('08) and three saints in heaven
Seven Times the Fun
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
KellyJ
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 29 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
|
| Posted: March 10 2008 at 7:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
BrendaPeter wrote:
| Not that I'm experienced in this at all Angie, but I was very surprised to discover when I was investigating all of this about 6 months ago that an official transcript is required for the military (academies included) and for a civil service type job - i.e. fireman, etc. Worst-case scenario, the student can submit a GED. The majority of colleges, as far as I know, are fine with a mom-generated transcript. From what you've written here, the Tier 2 & above colleges do require one? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this! |
|
|
Does "official" here mean from an accredited school, like Kolbe, MODG, Seton, etc.? Or, does it mean something else? Thanks! 
__________________
KellyJ
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
BrendaPeter
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: March 10 2008 at 8:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
KellyJ wrote:
| Does "official" here mean from an accredited school, like Kolbe, MODG, Seton, etc.? Or, does it mean something else? Thanks! |
|
|
Exactly vs. mom-generated.
__________________
Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
websterm
Forum Rookie
Joined: March 05 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: March 11 2008 at 8:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I am new to homeschool - I will be bringing my 13 yr old home next year for her 8th grade year. Being new, I am wanting to use a program - a little scared here. I have loved reading all the advise from all of you, and have been researching Kolbe since this thread started. Somewhere along the road though, I also started reading about Angelicum Academy. Any experience with them??
Thanks for the help!
Marcia
Home To Learn
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Did you use a curric provider, or DYOC
