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mamaslearning
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| Posted: April 03 2014 at 8:07pm | IP Logged
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I tried to search for this subject, but did not find anything with "middle child" or other variants. If you know of pertinent threads, please let me know.
My third child is my middle child of four. I call him that because he is the one that often gets overlooked in the beautiful chaos of our family life. It's not deliberate, but that's just how it all worked out when he was born and when his younger brother was born.
I'm finding that it is very difficult to parent this child. He is very different than my first two - boisterous, physical, active, headstrong - and has a terrible time keeping his body under control. He is not ADD or ADHD, but compared to my docile older children he is a handful. I just feel so out of touch with him and I know that he's not getting what he needs in terms of guidance, but I can't figure out how to connect with him so that he will learn obedience. He fidgets and fusses and cries in church (he's 5-1/2) and no amount of consequences deter his behaviors. I have tried to *love it out* by lavishing attention and directing him at Mass (engaging him with the hymns, readings, prayer cards, etc.), but that doesn't help either. At home, he just won't stop fighting! Not the mean kind of fighting, but play fighting, constantly fake punching, hitting, running, karate kicking, jumping....it's all so overwhelming.
He gets exercise and outside play. I let them run around as much as possible, but he won't engage in anything quiet for very long at all. Now, I know he's only 5, but he needs to gain some control over his body. I'm tired of him and the youngest constantly hitting (in a playing way) each other.
Suggestions? Empathy? Is this just a boy thing?
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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Betsy
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 7:03am | IP Logged
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I have the same middle child issue, but switched around. My first two are a handful and my 3rd is so calm and able to occupy his self he gets overlooked. 
As for the 5yo that can't control his body....come on over to my house and you will feel better. ALL of my boys have had this issue. With the first three they were each terrible at Mass (as in not being able to sit still for 1 hour) to the point that I thought that they would never be able to recieve their FHC. Then right around 6 1/2 years old things started to get better. As the age of reason was upon us they were all able to controlled themselves better. My first, who has never wanted to sleep and has been a really physical handful said to me when he was 7 isn..... Mom, I couldn't fall asleep so I just offered it up to Jesus! Before then he would have just ran around and kept getting out of bed and keeping his brother up, etc. It was a breakthrough moment for us.
Now, it's not that at 7 everything was perfect, but at least it was a starting point for each of them to realistically be able to controlled their bodies more!
I hope that helps...
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roomintheheart
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 7:19am | IP Logged
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I have a friend with a child who was like that, and she put him in karate class. It helped sooooo much!
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SallyT
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 7:26am | IP Logged
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I have that child, too. He's also my third of four, and he's 11. His younger sibling (a girl) is 10.
Learning to read helped him a lot. He's still super kinetic, constantly karate kicking (funny, we thought that actually taking karate would siphon off that energy, but no), very aggressive in his affection . . . he's darling, loving, sensitive, all good things, but draining to be around a lot of the time.
BUT he loves to read and will spend hours sucked into a book, which at least is a variation on the constant activity. And he thinks a lot and, as he's gotten older, is a great conversationalist when he's not in goofy mode. And he did eventually learn to behave in Mass, though he still has a hard time not being twitchy and fidgety while he's serving on the altar. Our last pastor called him "One Giant Exposed Nerve."
Demanding obedience has never helped much. I've just tried to work with him to form decent habits, which has been like swimming upstream through mud . . . Still, his loving nature has stood us in good stead -- he does want to be trusted and respected by us, so as he's gotten older I've been able to appeal to that in him to get him to do what I want.
His older brother (16) has always been the "easy" child in our family, so this son came as something of a shock to our systems. When he was 5, I probably would have said exactly the same thing, about feeling disconnected from him and defeated by him -- as he's matured and his more complex personality has had more time to emerge, I find him really a joy to be around (even if I'm going, "Oh no! Don't hug me! My ribs still hurt from the last time you did that!"). We just kind of had to ride out the immaturity, as we're still doing. And will be doing for a long time, I suspect.
Sally
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mamaslearning
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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But how do I form those habits of self-control when he doesn't respond to rewards, punishments, consequences, etc. Do I just stick with a set of consequences and then prepare for that stage to last a long time with no apparent progress? What would be a logical consequence to not sitting through Mass? I realize that he will fidget, but he has to stay in his seat and not walk around the pew area and flip noisily through the hymnal causing disruptive noises or being held throughout the entire Mass (I cannot hold him, he's just too big).
I understand the immaturity issue, but how do I set some external guidelines for him as he is learning to internalize these lessons? Am I being too controlling or unrealistic in my expectations for periods of calmness?
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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That is hard. I agree with Betsy that there does seem to be a change round 7 for my boys. I have not had the mass problem specifically with a child that age, but I will say that even my best behaved mass goers have to be watched like a hawk. There is a constant redirection of attention, silencing with a look, a hand on a fidgety leg, etc... At that age, if they start to fidget a lot, I will quickly rearrange seating so they are isolated with me, perhaps putting them between me and the outside of the pew so there is no space to scoot or freedom to move much. If they were defiantly causing a ruckus, they would be escorted out and made to sit on a stair in a boring place until they indicated they could behave. I try to be consistent in correcting behavior even if my disapproving glance is the only clear punishment. At home, we use a lot of do-overs, and if they are unwilling to model a particular behavior, they can sit on a stair until they do. Rewards and punishments are last resorts forthe child who has been corrected multiple times for the same thing, but there is not an air of permissiveness either.
I also heard of a good recommendation recently for a code word to help the overly boisterous boy in public. Instead of having to embarrass the boy in front of his friends, the mom would just say, "Hey, Superman," as an instruction to bring it down a notch. Another friend of mine bought her boy a punching bag to help direct some of those energies away from his siblings. I can imagine a scenario where you have a punching bagnin the bedroom, and when things get frustrating, you just lightly say, "Okay, buddy, why don't you take it upstairs.
BUT it is also possible that your older boy is the anomaly in this scenario. Sometimes I feel as if not an hour will ever go by again that doesn't include two or more boys dissolving into a pile of arms and legs on the floor .
One more thought that is sort of out in left field, but since you started your thread about clothes, and we were discussing the Dressing Your Truth ideas, I was looking for something on the DYT forums and came across so many saying how people don't take them seriously when dressed in the "wrong" clothing or that people misunderstand them when their personality doesn't match their appearance. And a few people even mentioned things like trying to find loungewear for at home that matched their energy type because they noticed their children didn't take them seriously. It just struck me that it made so much sense. I had a good day on Wednesday when I wore my newer clothes and stayed in it all day because we weere going out. But I will sometimes wear older, less flattering clothes st home, sometimes even feeling as if I look ridiculous! I think that wearing things thst make me feel good is likely just as important at home as it is away from home, maybe even more so. Anyway, since you brought up the two topics in succession and I just made the connection myself, I thought I would share. It is possible that your dwindling wardrobe is a seemingly little thing that has made you feel more out of control and overwhelmed by these behaviors and made him less likely to "see" you as he should. Just a thought I had. 
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 04 2014 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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Boys are loud, dirty, rough, energetic, did I say loud? All of my little guys do the rough loving.. where they run headlong into you to give you a hug. They need more force in the loving part.
I do the same as Lindsay for my kids, since the problem really is that they're bored of sitting and listening, the best thing is to teach that it can always be more boring. I don't have a space in the Church I'd consider more boring so we usually would head out to the car and buckle into car seats.. and then I'd stand outside the car (to protect my ears  ) usually where they could see me but I would appear to be not looking at them so that they weren't getting my attention.. oh and with smaller kids I never let them walk out of church (your boy is bigger) the benefit of getting to walk out of church would be enough to make leaving beneficial instead of something to be avoided. We start this when a little one goes from normal infant fussing to intentionally fussing to get someone to walk with them or take them out. And changing it to make a big impression doesn't help. Consistent helps even if it doesn't seem to "work".
This may work better if you also have things that he may do during church, each child is different, but things like a worry stone or those stress balls you squish comes to mind.. BUT make sure it can't be tossed or dropped on the pew to make noise. A notepad and crayons might be ok. Then when the alternative is being able to move about some, do some little things or go and sit by yourself with nothing to do.. he'll figure it out.
I have also had kids (hmmm some of them would have been around his age even) stay after Mass was over and say a prayer to Jesus to apologize for their behavior at Mass.
(this was an extreme day, I didn't do this for just regular nonsense)
Oh and our Church always has coffee and donuts after Mass. So the kids get to run and play with their friends and get a donut. I had a saying when my older kids were younger "if you play during Mass, we don't stay to play after Mass".. oh man you should have seen them the first time I loaded them up in the car after Mass without getting a donut or time to play
Make sure he understands exactly the expectations. And it'll be easier for him if you phrase it as what he should do and not what he shouldn't do. We have "be quiet, stay in your spot, keep your things quiet". Notice that I do not have any "don't fidgit" type of rule. EVERYONE fidgits, take a moment to really people watch, the adults all shift in their seats, sniffle, cough, clear their throat, move their feet, occasionally drop something etc.
See I figure that things like the book making noise.. well, he is being quiet. He is probably not really thinking of the book making noise. I find it's more clear and gets a better response if instead of telling them to be quiet, I ask them to help the book stay quiet.
You're sitting right next to him, he WILL be louder to you than to anyone anywhere in the room including people behind or in front of you. If you can try it sometime you'll find it's a amazing difference to be one or even two pews away.
And there will always be people who frown at you if you so much as hiccup so ignore them, it doesn't mean that he's being horrible or that you're not doing your job. Maybe they have heartburn.
And boys are typically way more physical than moms like I have 2 strategies.. send them to their room or outside for play like that and ask "is this fun or is it a real fight".. and then the corollary is that everyone must think it's fun or it's no longer playing and they must stop, we do not have fun at someone else's expense.
Couple of other thoughts...
The rough hugs are easier if you drop to his level and hug him around the ribs.. that puts him hugging you over your arms and protects your ribs remember to hold him tight though.. he needs that extra pressure of a bear hug rather than a gentle hug.
And when they get too big for your lap (or in my case I usually had an infant in my lap when they got a bit bigger) have them sit next to you where you can snuggle them up close with an arm around them.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Middle Child
