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stellamaris
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With the Ember days upon us, a question has arisen here about whether having meat-based broths with no flesh meat in them, like chicken broth or beef broth with no chunks of meat, are allowed on fast days. What about a vegetable soup made with chicken stock? We've had priests say both that it's OK, and that it's not OK. So are there any direct references to this in Church law?
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Caroline
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JodieLyn
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I've heard both too Caroline.. I'm interested in the answer as well.
But I'll tell you, I found McKay's Chicken or Beef Style Bullion Powder at our health food store and it contains NO MEAT or meat by products.. and it tastes remarkably like bullion made with meat.. sooo.. I just use it and figure I have the flavor AND the no-meat part so I'm good. 
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folklaur
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i found this, dated 1966, and on the USCCB website:
http://www.usccb.org/lent/2007/Penance_and_Abstinence.pdf
here is the bit about Ember Days
Quote:
Vigils and Ember Days
17. Vigils and Ember Days, as most now know, no longer
oblige to fast and abstinence. However, the liturgical renewal
and the deeper appreciation of the joy of the holy days of the
Christian year will, we hope, result in a renewed appreciation
as to why our forefathers spoke of "a fast before a feast." We
impose no fast before any feast-day, but we suggest that the
devout will find greater Christian joy in the feasts of the
liturgical calendar if they freely bind themselves, for their own
motives and in their own spirit of piety, to prepare for each
Church festival by a day of particular self-denial, penitential
prayer and fasting. |
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i don't know if there is something more recent that talks about it? that was just a quick search.
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MaryM
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The following are sections from a Zenit article at EWTN
The law of abstinence prohibits eating the flesh, marrow and blood products of such animals and birds as constitute flesh meat.
In earlier times the law of abstinence also forbade such foods that originated from such animals, such as milk, butter, cheese, eggs, lard and sauces made from animal fat. This restriction is no longer in force in the Roman rite.
Present canon law allows the use of sauces made from animal fats, as well as their use in cooking, so the use of beef or chicken stock would enter into this category.
While the use of chicken consommé (that is just the liquid) might fall within the law, it would be more in accordance with the spirit of abstinence to prefer a fish or vegetable soup.
Refers to the Code of Canon Law 1250-53 and APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION PAENITEMINI on fast and abstinence.
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guitarnan
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Just an FYI - Knorr's vegetable bouillon cubes make a great soup base - I use them for lentil soup, etc. all the time and no one can differentiate between them and chicken bouillon cubes.
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ekbell
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In general it would be best to do whatever does not offend any one's sense of fitness, particularly when engaging in a recommended but not obligatory fast.
I think this article gives a good explanation of the current rules Why No Chicken
[I use veggie stock when making a meatless meal, myself - there are some yummy recipes online and the stock itself is a good freezable end to wilted veggies]
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folklaur
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Do Eastern Rite Catholics still follow a stricter fast?
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stellamaris
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Just to alleviate any confusion...the Ember Days are not required days of abstinence or fast (as cactus mouse and ekbell pointed out). We just were discussing this topic because we wanted to begin to incorporate these strictly optional days of penance into our celebration of the liturgical years, especially in the Year for the Priest.
Thank you for all of your helpful responses!
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Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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stellamaris
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Laura, I thought I remember an EOC friend describing a much stricter fasting practice, and I found this online. It appears from the article that there are more days of fasting and also more strict fasts (no eggs, etc) than in the Catholic church.
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Caroline
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Carole N.
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Nancy, did you and I learn to cook in the same school? I also use the Knorr vegetable bouillion cubes and have had great success with it in sauces and soups. The only caution is if someone has a reaction to msg. I once served a wonderful sauce, but my friend had a reaction to the msg that resulted in a terrible headache.
Caroline and Laura, I think that from what I have read the EOC does have much stricter fasting and abstinence; however, this is just general knowledge on my part.
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folklaur
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stellamaris wrote:
| Laura, I thought I remember an EOC friend describing a much stricter fasting practice, and I found this online. It appears from the article that there are more days of fasting and also more strict fasts (no eggs, etc) than in the Catholic church. |
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oh, no, no - I know the EOC's fasts are much, much stricter, and much more frequent.
i was talking about Eastern Rite Catholics.
i wasn't sure if their fasts were the same as the latin rite or not.
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stellamaris
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Oops! Well, it is pretty early here and no coffee yet  ...how about this thread from Catholic Answers? There's some info on different rites if you scroll down. Now, I hope I got that right  !
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Caroline
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stellamaris
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found this nice summary at Catholic Cuisine that address the chicken broth problem.
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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MaryM
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stellamaris wrote:
| Laura, I thought I remember an EOC friend describing a much stricter fasting practice, and I found this online. |
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This link isn't working, Caroline. I tried to fix it but some of the address must be missing and I couldn't figure it out.
stellamaris wrote:
| found this nice summary at Catholic Cuisine that address the chicken broth problem. |
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That Catholic Cuisine post that Jessica wrote was taken from the Zenit article that is linked above in the thread.
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Mary M. in Denver
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: fast and abstinence?
