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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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Read the full text here!! 
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MacBeth in NY
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 10:58am | IP Logged
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You beat me to it, MacBeth! Thanks for posting the link. I'm all excited about his Latin and Gregorian Chant references. I posted about it after seeing Church Music Association of America's excerpts.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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chicken lady
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 11:05am | IP Logged
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How funny I just finished reading it, and thought I should post this, and I come here voila MAcBeth on the job
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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 11:09am | IP Logged
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Well, you beat me to reading all that good stuff, as I wade my way slowly throught the whole AE... 
Thanks for the CMA link!!
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MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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Bridget
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
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Oh good! Our priest was begging the whole parish to read it.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 13 2007 at 4:17pm | IP Logged
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Whoa...take a look at what the AE Really Says (on Fr.Z's blog).  Fascinating.
[edit] Tears are for what we lose in the English translation.
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MacBeth in NY
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marihalojen
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 7:32am | IP Logged
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What a change! To go from "it is reasonable, proper, right", or "it is becoming", to "could be" is incredible!
Thanks for the link to Fr. Z's Blog, MacBeth. I enjoyed reading his post.
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 9:15am | IP Logged
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Wow...leads one to wonder what else is translated poorly. How much meaning have we missed, even when we read carefully in English? How much confusion is caused by poor translations?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 9:20am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Wow...leads one to wonder what else is translated poorly. How much meaning have we missed, even when we read carefully in English? How much confusion is caused by poor translations? |
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My thoughts exactly! I feel duped!
Following the Holy Father's exhortation I would say it's time to learn Latin.
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stefoodie
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Is anyone else having trouble viewing the blog? Yesterday I couldn't get in at all and kept getting all kinds of messages from errors to unauthorized access, etc. Now I'm getting part of it but at the bottom I'm getting a parse error.
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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stefoodie wrote:
| Is anyone else having trouble viewing the blog? Yesterday I couldn't get in at all and kept getting all kinds of messages from errors to unauthorized access, etc. Now I'm getting part of it but at the bottom I'm getting a parse error. |
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Yes, the site was down yesterday, adn he's having problems. I was only able to read it through bloglines, and he alerted his readers that he was turning off comments, and his host was about to terminate because he had too much traffic. So, he's on thin ice as to whether his site will pull up or not.
I can pm the text of that message for you, if you wish. I'm not sure if I should post it here....
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JennGM
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 11:45am | IP Logged
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Oh, there's more discussion about the translation. There are links to some other blogs, too.
The funny thing was I was reading those highlighted paragraphs by CMA to my mother over the phone yesterday, and was tripping over the word "could" and just thought it didn't fit. It was weak, I wanted to put in "should" as it matches the the forcefulness of the rest of the document. My mother said the same thing when she read it at home. So it was nice to read that our feelings (intuition) were correct....
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Tami
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 5:24pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Wow...leads one to wonder what else is translated poorly. How much meaning have we missed, even when we read carefully in English? How much confusion is caused by poor translations? |
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Tons, unfortunately. 
This is one of the problems currently being addressed re: the texts of the Novus Ordo. They were translated in haste and now a more 'thoughtful' review is taking place...
Like Michele, I'm all for a Latin revival!
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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vmalott
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| Posted: March 14 2007 at 7:12pm | IP Logged
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ok, so here's a question. Does Benedict XVI write in his native German and then it gets translated into Latin?
Valerie
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MacBeth
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Good question, Valerie. I think so. Fr. Z mentions that the document is translated INTO Latin, so I assume it is written in German first.
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MacBeth in NY
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St. Ann
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| Posted: March 15 2007 at 3:46am | IP Logged
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Sometimes he writes in italian, but the official text is in Latin. This was not written in German originally, because there is also a mistake in the German translation fromthe latin. I read about it in Zenitdeutsch. The problem here is in the 2nd part between the words - legitimate and valid. I understood from the article that they are going to correct the translation.
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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the info, Stephanie.
Goodness, I cannot imagine writing a document like this (or anything over a one page essay  ) in a second language, though I guess If I had lived in Italy for so long, it might become like a first language.
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Servant2theKing
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This discussion is very interesting...and not a new phenomena, from what I understand. It seems there have been numerous incidents when the texts of various documents, especially when translated into English, lost a great deal in the translation. It might be interesting to take a copy of the Latin version or a version in Italian perhaps, plug the text into an online translation site, and see whether a computerized translation is less likely to give us the same kind of weak, watered down version we seem to continually receive here in this country!
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Tami
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Servant2theKing wrote:
| ... It might be interesting to take a copy of the Latin version or a version in Italian perhaps, plug the text into an online translation site, and see whether a computerized translation is less likely to give us the same kind of weak, watered down version we seem to continually receive here in this country! |
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Actually, it's likely to be much worse, as languages are living, and computers/software are not, and therefore can't nuance the way the mind and heart can.
In college, there were always samples of this floating around the language dept. My favorite: the phrase "out of sight, out of mind" was put into a computer to translate into German. Then the German was translated back into the English. The result? Out of site, out of mind = Invisible idiot.
I'm sure the software is better now, but my kids have used some sites for translation, and they always need cleaning up a bit.
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Tami
When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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MacBeth
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| Posted: March 16 2007 at 11:36am | IP Logged
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Fr. Z (his site has been restored!  ) has more insight into poor translation in this document. This time, it is a problem in many languages, and it is a most important issue.
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