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amyable
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 6:55am | IP Logged
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
The only advice I have, and it's been said many times before, is to declutter. I have no idea why this is so easy for me, but getting rid of stuff is what saves us in the small house! I perfectly balance my yard-sale-loving husband! |
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I have no trouble with decluttering, up to a point. But I still feel like we are overrun with STUFF. We have a bad combination here - very generous relatives, 4 girls who love their stuff-with-a-million-parts (think Polly Pockets, dollhouse, barbies  ...not to mention the schooly type flash cards, art supplies, math manipulatives ) and a small house.
STUFF is the bane of my existence right now. I feel like I spend all my day just moving stuff around, not accomplishing anything...or reminding my girls to move stuff around ("hang your overly abundant clothes up!"  "put away the 465 pieces of Polly Pocket the baby dumped out!")
So we've decluttered, but not as much as we need to. I have a big problem though with telling my children they just can't have as many toys as the other kids they know, not because we can't afford it (which we can) but because we don't have space for it (which they really don't understand - if it fits on the floor somewhere, to them, that's enough space! ) I feel like I'm being stingy...which kills me, because of all the virtues, the only one I can say I naturally am is generous. It literally HURTS to have to tell my kids they can only keep a small number of toys. I know I will LOVE the result in terms of peace and space, but at the cost of me feeling loving towards my children (I think 'gifts' is a love language, right?) Please tell me kids only NEED a very select few toys, and those with more just have too much...  I just have this image of my children as grown ups, thinking back and saying "We didn't have much, but I don't know why, because we weren't poor, Dad made enough money! Didn't they love us?"
I'm sorry if I've strayed away from the post topic...but it all relates to big vs. small houses right? We talk about moving, but in our area, if we moved into something larger, we would be very cash poor, and as it is now we can be debt free soon so have more money for college, etc.
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The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Cheryl
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 9:15am | IP Logged
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Becky,
I am wondering how old your children are. I have 4 dc (ages 7 and under) which I think makes any size house messier than I'd like. I have to put in quite a bit of time in doing their morning routines with them and helping them learn how to do chores. If I decide to go on the computer while I nurse, like I am now, instead of helping them, the house gets even more cluttered with things not in their places.
I'm about six weeks into living in a large house. I came from a small house. I much prefer the large. While I am still spending my time picking up, at least everything can now have an assigned place, and pick-up is more efficient because the lay-out here is better. For example, I am no longer spending time shuffling the art work off the kitchen table 3 times a day. I have many bare counters to prepare food on.
We are still tripping on bikes in the garage because the kids are not yet trained to put them in their places. I think many of the big messes here I have allowed to happen by talking on the phone too much, too much computer time for me, overscheduling our time out of the house or just letting the kids leave things and move on to other things.
As for cleaning a larger house, I think it takes longer, but not THAT much longer. There are more walls to wipe handprints off of, the floors take longer to clean and there is more to dust. Bathrooms are about the same. My dh usually does the yard work. He loves it. Our smaller house actually seemed dirtier without a mudroom and with a staircase to go up from outside to the main living space. Really, any house requires maintenance to keep it looking nice, and with dc it gets dirty very soon after you clean it.
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 9:30am | IP Logged
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Our problem with large spaces is that no matter how large, our STUFF always seems to expand to fill it!  So larger spaces do not equate with less clutter to me.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Martha
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 9:40am | IP Logged
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Well...
I guess all I can say is that anyone who wants to live smaller can trade houses with us.
1000sq ft + 10 people = 1 organizition queen who would like to pass the crown to someone else.
The floor plan can make or break too, in my experience.
But I've done all I can and it's getting to be a real burden to endure for everyone here.
Yet, we really can't/won't spend much more for a mtg payment. I've seen too many people do that and the beautiful home turns into a spacious prison because they can't afford to do anything other than make the payments.
I don't know what we're going to do. We're basicly waiting on divine intervention I think.  Or at least divine inspiration!
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 10:52am | IP Logged
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Amy...I feel your pain!! THIS IS MY STRUGGLE TOO!!
My house is 1092 sq ft. It is a charming 1923 house but the guy who designed must not have had any children or clothes! We have a dining room/living room combination which makes things easier. The kitchen is an ok size, but it is designed for a breakfast nook like area which is VERY hard to keep clean and just collects things. (I call it the black hole) and it is too small to eat in anyway!
I find the disadvantage of having a small house is that there is no where to put things as they come in so things just get dumped. I had to examine priorities and it has been a LOOONG work in progress. My home was much bigger growing up and I could not rely on past habits to help me form new ones. I could only rely on GOD...creator of the universe...the One who creates order out of chaos...I came to the conclusion that surely after alllll of that, HE could help me out of this little mess.
Ever read "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" by CS Lewis? Eustace had to be stripped of his scales...and it was a painful process for him to be a little boy again. Same deal here.....
I have a walk-up attic and I have been storing excess toys up there in LABELED plastic bins and drawers. This system is ok, but I have to do something to that area to make it more habitable to store STUFF. They can bring a few things down, but have to return them and all the pieces to get more....I told my dh, we will be fine if we can make that attic into one big walk-in storage closet. Maybe someday...LOL
We have 3 large bookcases against the only long wall space we have in the dining room. On top of these, the china cabinet and a secretary desk, I have LARGE baskets...looks great but it is hidden storage for school. Each one has the supplies for a given subject...art...science, math, language...mostly manipulatives. I only bring down one or two things at a time. If they want to have another, they have to exchange. Colored pencils are always available as they are the easiest to care for with toddlers around. I have oodles of those.
In the living room we do have a fireplace with built-ins on either side. I use these for Montessori things, and drawer-type storage of some stuff. We place our computer on a long table and it is another great work area. Underneath are a few of the 2 drawer filing cabinets...I love these things...we got them from various garage sales...They work GREAT!...and they LOCK!
In each kid bedroom there is at least one bookcase. Each child has one shelf...they have one bin for stuff. I was tired...oh so tired of fighting the mess. I told them, if you don't want to clean it...you shouldn't want to have it. Make it easy on yourself! I got rid of a lot of great toys that had too many pieces...like my ds' K'inex...I could not pick them up again. Maybe when he gets older...but not now...he has other things that he can use for building that he enjoys anyway. Never underestimate the power of simple toys. We have gotten more milage out of cardboard and duct tape than any other toy we have!!
The bedrooms are the homes to the animals and dolls( I watch to see which ones are played with and which are forgotten...some of the junky ones dissapear...and they have yet to notice!...i DO feel evil saying that btw...), blankets, clothing and a FEW special toys...the rest are stored in other parts of the house. If there is too much in the bedroom, they will not clean it! If there are too many pieces scattered about, they will never play with it anyway...
I HAD to simplify...it hurt me more than them! The thing that did it for me was when we hastilly bucket cleaned the whole house for a party we were having. I never knew what went into those buckets and funny thing...with only a FEW exceptions, I did not miss anyting...neither did the kids....THAT was my wake-up call. Most of it is just STUFF.
The people have to matter more than the STUFF. If I have no time for the people, and I am just chained to the STUFF, what kind of memories will the kids have to cherish about me? I don't think they will be saying at my funeral..."well, she made a darned good laundry lady..we will miss her!" ...umm no...wrong reason to be remembered.
Of course I want to be good at every part of my job...it gets to the point that I get too sensitive about it because it IS an impossible task. As Elizabeth wisely said in another post, I don't want to be an enabler...but I see that I am ...every time I get sick and I can't do for others. I have to set them up to succeed and it is hard to do that when there is more here to help them to fail. Do the kids know HOW to clean?...how to use the supplies?...are they stored in the same place every time? Is it child friendly and safe??
The Environment has to work...this is a TRAINING ground for virtue...for life! It is an obstacle course they must run and they have to have their confidence built along the way! Is it user-friendly for all the members that live here? Is there a place for things? Set things up so that the little ones can help too...however imperfect...CATCH their enthusiasm!! For example: We have a step stool in the kitchen that can fit at least 2 kids on it and the 3yo helps rinse the dishes while the 7yo is being trained by the 10yo to place the dishes in the dishwasher....etc...the 5yo uses the step stool to put the dishes away...they are on the lower shelf so she can reach it.
My large motor son HATES to clean! He likes carying big baskets of laundry...it is great for muscle building...he will only do the tasks he can get to and do easily. He has to be trained, like 100 times to do something...then suddenly he wants to do THAT thing first...and mom slumps against the wall exhausted....
The equipment has to work...the drawers have to stay in and the little ones can't use them as ladders....for example. If things are dumped, can it be cleaned up in a short period of time, or do you feel like you have to put school on hold for a week to get it back into order after only ONE day? -THAT was us...It could never be cleaned up in one or two sessions...we were being buried alive!!
I think if I set the stage with places to put things it makes life easier. I can see a definite change in my stress level. There was life before book cases and life after book cases. I have to go through them often to keep things pared down. It is a way to store things visualy. I can see where it belongs...I am more apt to put it there...much less the kids doing that too! Heck! I will get rid of un-necessary furniture for book cases...I ditched the regular end-tables in my living room for ones that hold books....I love them!!
did I mention that my house can often make me feel clostrophobic?? I have to keep the walk ways open! I hope I am on the way to solving this by keeping things visually uncluttered, and finding places to allow the kids to read or work that are clean and ready to go. If the table is clean when they get up in the morning, I feel more apt to ensure that it stays clean.
My one son (7) gets freaked out if I tell him to clean off the table and on it there is a pile of books, a roll of tape, various puzzle pieces and a few pieces of folded laundry. I tell him to put his puzzle away and it is JUST that puzzle there...he will do it...hmmm...watch the dc and SEE what works for them!!
I bring them into a cleaned area and ask them how it makes them feel...and to really think about it. I do the same thing with a crowded area or room. I ask them a lot of "wondering questions" about the STUFF...how it makes them feel...is it worth the time to care for...what is the thing they want to do most with their time?? How do you feel in so&so's house (name someone who is neat) I try to empower them with their own decisions...what do you think would be the best way to do this...what kind of goals should we set here and why?? They have slowly come to the same conclusion as me.
They are tired of cleaning all day...they want to play and so do I!! Putting it into practice is another matter...forming habits can take awhile...but do it in BABY STEPS...and celebrate the victories and re-do the defeats...don't let it get you down...I can still hear my dear friend's mom...very wise holy woman of 8 dc...she made eye contact with me one day and said..."YOU have to be strong for THEM!" I had no clue what she meant at the time...I DO now!...which brings me to another question...WHY does God trust me SO much?!
Are you still reading?? I hope this isn't waaaay too long I am still a work in progress...it is NOT even close to ideal here YET...but it is a working dynamic that I can live in. I am training myself to a new normal and at the same time bringing the kids along...I will NOT be buried alive!
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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amyable
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:26am | IP Logged
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Donna Marie wrote:
Are you still reading?? I hope this isn't waaaay too long I am still a work in progress...it is NOT even close to ideal here YET...but it is a working dynamic that I can live in. I am training myself to a new normal and at the same time bringing the kids along...I will NOT be buried alive! |
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Not too long -- a much needed read! Thank you for sharing all that.
ITA about things needing to be functional. I think this is where we really fall short. We have two end tables that do NOTHING for us but hold lamps. If they had a drawer or space for books it would be THAT much better. Same with a china cabinet/hutch type thing. We don't have one, but if we DID I could store stuff in it. And our dresser is my dh's from being a kid. SMALL! We could fit something a bit bigger, that would help hold things that just need a *place*. We just have to come to grips with the fact that we have outgrown these things...that we need to spend money!
I really related to so much of your post. Thanks again for taking the time to type all that out.
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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Donna Marie wrote:
| I will NOT be buried alive! |
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Great quote for all pack rats.
I agree that clutter is the culprit. I find that the older I get it's easier for me to declutter. I remember moving into this house three years ago. Meme and PawPaw had been decluttering for years and had given us most of their "stuff". The house was neat as a pen...lots of furniture but hardly any extras.
It's the "extras" that get you. Kind of like adding "extras" to our already full curriculum.
We moved in with all our furniture and "extras". I had all the children and spouses come in and take what they wanted. One of the nieces even wanted Meme's set of old dented metal sugar/flour/coffee containers because she had fond memories of Meme always handling them. All we requested was that they leave the TV and the stove and a 3-D picture of a Cajun cabin on the bayou.
After everything was said and done, we were still left with lots of furniture and lots of dishes/pots, etc. The little girls' closet is a nightmare that never ends.
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Cay Gibson
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Cheryl
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:46am | IP Logged
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Donna Marie wrote:
| I bring them into a cleaned area and ask them how it makes them feel...and to really think about it. I do the same thing with a crowded area or room. I ask them a lot of "wondering questions" about the STUFF...how it makes them feel...is it worth the time to care for...what is the thing they want to do most with their time?? |
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I really like this idea. Your post wasn't too long for me. It was just right.
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Cheryl
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
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Cay Gibson wrote:
Donna Marie wrote:
| I will NOT be buried alive! |
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Great quote for all pack rats.
After everything was said and done, we were still left with lots of furniture and lots of dishes/pots, etc. The little girls' closet is a nightmare that never ends. |
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I find that it is the littler girls that have the MOST clothing! My one dd will be 6 next month...whatever she will not wear, or I will not let her wear is GONE! She has enough...we were gifted very generously this year with beautiful hand-me downs for her...and she has older TWIN dear sisters to boot! It has been interesting helping sort her laundry. I realized how high the pile was...it was hard to split the shirt pile in half and put half of it away. If there is less in circulation, there is less laundry on the floor...falling out of the drawers that don't hold it all. YIKES! I am AFRAID of the LAUNDRY MONSTER!! We need to shoot for elegant simplicity!!
I love folding the clean towels...I even love washing the baby's diapers...sorting through the older kid's clothing is my least favorite chore! I will clean the bathroom first!-and I have a 3yo boy (if you get the picture
We are trying to work out a laundry system so the older ones have a set time to do their OWN clothing. We are trying to teach them how. I cannot do all, be all, and be responsible for all. I am, however, afraid that some child will destroy their good clothing by not washing it correctly. i will watch them for a time, until I know they have a good system in place. Yeah, I will do that, and a million other things at the same time. I HAVE to keep in mind that I am training THEM to cut my workload waaay down. The hard part is slowing down and letting them change the direction in a more detailed way for a time. I have to make that deliberate pause for their good as well as my own. It is so hard at times to be the lady in the shining tiara!
We too have had things from various Grandparents' estates. I think the trick is going through it RIGHT AWAY and putting it in a defintite place for use...putting in the car what we don't want to keep...immediately(...do not pass Go...do not collect $200....) I never really knew what was in the boxes to begin with, so I won't know what is in them later so I WILL avoid it if it stays! ..yadda yadda
I think I will be a GREAT Grandmother some day.... I ought to start a business...haha...I am gathering in the field experience...under fire, no less!!
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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lapazfarm
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Donna Marie, your post is like a breath of fresh air! I am inspired, especially since I have seen in the very few areas I have really decluttered and organized, it STAYS that way!
I'm off to get rid of that stack of old board games we haven't played since 3 moves ago!
Does anyone have any good decluttering "tips" they can pass along?
I have ONE (my only area where I am good at decluttering). EVERY time I fold a stack of laundry I go through it to see if there is anything I should get rid of.
If it is too junky I toss it.
If it is still in good shape but can't be handed down I put in the Goodwill bin beside the door (an old antique laundry hamper with a lid)to bless someone else with.
If it can be handed down I put it in the appropriate kid's stack right then.
The Goodwill bin is lined with a kitchen bag and as soon as it is filled it goes into the trunk of my car. Next trip to town out it goes. New bag in bin.
This is the only way I was able to tame the clothing monster at our home.
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Servant2theKing
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This is a wonderful thread...I think homeschooling mothers struggle with the upkeep of their homes, no matter the size, because our children are continually underfoot, undoing things as fast as we can clean or pick-up! Training our children to help manage the home is critical to peace of mind, and to their healthy development. We've lived in bigger (2000 plus sq ft), and smaller (1400 plus sq ft). In any situation things run more smoothly the more our children are actively involved in the cleaning and upkeep. Regular chores for the youngest to oldest family members are lifesaving for Mom and wonderful training for adult life! Their future spouses will love you for it!
Having a place for everything and keeping everything in its place is also helpful. If you lack floor space, go vertical with shelves, pegboard, hooks and/or hanging tiered baskets. Don't overlook space beneath beds or other furniture. Many closets have a great deal of wasted space toward the ceiling, where you can hang shallow shelves to hold less-used items (such as extra toilet paper, gift wrap or school supplies).
We have dual-purpose spaces in our home. We use our bedroom as a family-room with a couch and loveseat, TV for watching videos, and several bookshelves. All of our dressers are stored inside our closets, which frees up floorspace in the bedrooms for things like a couch or easy chair for read-alouds. Our dining area has a desk, where I set up the sewing machine, and I set up the ironing board in the hall.
If clutter bothers you, try to keep things stored in cupcoards or cabinets. When most of your miscellania is out of sight, or nicely corraled in attractive containers like baskets, it can make for a more peaceful environment. When we moved to our smaller home I made a conscious decision to streamline and keep things more clutter-free, similar to when we had to keep our home "show-ready" for potential buyers. I try to keep our kitchen counters free of everything except our mixer, toaster, coffee maker and a container of utensils. The bathrooms have only the bare necessities within reach. Everything else stays in cabinets or drawers. I find that I am far less stressed with less visible clutter and mess.
Well, I'm off to clean house and organize...you ladies have inspired me!
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Martha
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Tips:
Keep/store things where they are used whenever possible. It's less likely to be put where it goes if it has to travel to get there.
Avoid flat surfaces if possible - they quickly become mounds.
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lapazfarm wrote:
I have ONE (my only area where I am good at decluttering). EVERY time I fold a stack of laundry I go through it to see if there is anything I should get rid of.
If it is too junky I toss it.
If it is still in good shape but can't be handed down I put in the Goodwill bin beside the door (an old antique laundry hamper with a lid)to bless someone else with.
If it can be handed down I put it in the appropriate kid's stack right then.
The Goodwill bin is lined with a kitchen bag and as soon as it is filled it goes into the trunk of my car. Next trip to town out it goes. New bag in bin.
This is the only way I was able to tame the clothing monster at our home. |
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I LOVE this idea, I'm always shuffling bags around in the laundry room until they make it to the back of my car. This is great!!
The ONE I would add is keeping the pantry from becoming a dumping ground for NON-pantry items  You have to get everyone on board for this to work, trust me! Having a tupperware (or plastic storage) system really makes a difference too in organizational efficiency!! You would not believe how much you can pack into a pantry if it's all in it's own container with a nice label on it
Love this thread 
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Donna Marie
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WOW...you ladies are INSPIRED!!! 
My dad once commented to me while I was cleaning one day that his mom...even though grandpa was away at work in other cities...with 7 kids managed to keep a good home and delegate work efficiently. They had a cleaning day, Saturday and if they finished on time my dad would take all of his younger siblings to the movies.
I glanced up at my dad..I was on the floor scrubbing it on all fours and looking like an irish washerwoman...
"Dad? Grandma sent you all to school...and you were barely at home...your house was bigger...we LIVE here alll the time...the school house is here and more....the fact that you can even SEE me down here shows that I am doing my work...I have not been buried alive yet, and I am not going to let that happen....the kids do do chores and are a work in progress... they are growing and so am I...aaaaand like Grandma Balbo(maternal grandmother) said "the over-dirt is CLEAN!!"
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Donna Marie from NJ
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 3:38pm | IP Logged
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I got 2 cabinets and a set of shelves decluttered today! I am absolutely giddy! 
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Donna Marie
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lapazfarm wrote:
| I got 2 cabinets and a set of shelves decluttered today! I am absolutely giddy! |
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WTG Theresa!!! you can come over and help me if you want...in your spare time! Doing all this decluttering on my own is very trying...the baby undoes some of it because she looves moving it around...sitting in it and throwing it over her head! I think if I eat some chocolate, I can move faster...yep..I'll tell dh that very thing...hahaha do you think he will buy it?? 
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Erica Sanchez
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Donna Marie wrote:
| I think if I eat some chocolate, I can move faster...yep..I'll tell dh that very thing...hahaha do you think he will buy it?? |
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Yes! Yes! Yes! How could we possibly do it all without chocolate!
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lapazfarm
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Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
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Posts: 6082
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| Posted: July 12 2006 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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And don't forget the caffeine! Must have coffee!!!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Becky Parker
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Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: July 13 2006 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
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You all have been so helpful. I felt bad after I posted. I thought, "what will every one think of me?!". But you have all been so kind. I know I need to be thankful - "content in all things" as St. Paul said. I see that there would be challenges with a smaller home too. When we bought this house we were sure that God wanted us to fill it. Well, we do have four children and 3 more in Heaven, but there's lots of extra space we just seem to mess up. I think I'll start by decluttering - more space = more room for "stuff". I'll never forget when we looked at this house and I saw the huge basement and the room for storage. It has wall to wall shelves. "Look at all this storage space" I said. By wise DH said "Yes, but that doesn't mean you have to fill it!" Well, I guess I don't listen very well!! I need to pray for grace and start de-cluttering. I really appreciate what you said about people being more important than stuff Donna Marie. Of course I know this to be true but I think I need to be reminded that the book by 5 year old wants me to read to him is far more important than the windows that need washed. I shoo my kids away too often so I can clean my house, or should I say "stuff". There is a fine line between the orderly home that I think God asks of me, (which I believe is part of being a good steward), and the perfectly clean, Better Homes and Gardens house I think I want.
Well, I better go declutter something. Thanks again everyone.
Becky
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Elizabeth
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Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: July 13 2006 at 3:11pm | IP Logged
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Donna Marie wrote:
| My dad once commented to me while I was cleaning one day that his mom...even though grandpa was away at work in other cities...with 7 kids managed to keep a good home and delegate work efficiently. |
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This is such a different perspective. One day recently, my f-i-l saw me cleaning the kitchen floor. His comment: Are all your slaves out today? You have to do your own work?
He doesn't think children should have chores. This is really ironic considering my dh is BIG into work ethic...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Houses - big or small?
