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Elizabeth
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I have finally won the annual pesticide/herbicide debate  . Now I have about 3/4 of an acre of grass that I need to keep green and get greener. And I have no idea what I'm doing. Dawn's posts about grubs in her yard and among her marigolds reminded me to ask for organic lawn care advice. Doesn't sound like she got a whole lot of support at the local nursery. I guess I better start looking for some local experts committed to organic yards and gardens.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Order the Gardens Alive catalog. That has organic approaches to lawn, vegetable, tree and flower care.
[quote=Elizabeth]I have finally won the annual pesticide/herbicide debate[/url]
Is this a spousal annual debate? I lose on this one. My garden is allowed to be organic, but the lawn care I cannot convince...even when I show these products from the above....it's to expensive.
I'll keep trying...you give me hope!
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Elizabeth
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Definitely a spousal debate. Between the financial aspect and whatever the male wiring is that compels them to compare color and quantity of grass to the guy next door, I have historically lost. This time, I pointed out how ridiculous it is that we go to four different sources for organic meat, milk, eggs and produce and then spray and spread the very stuff we're trying to avoid so our children can roll in it  . Now, I just have to keep the grass alive...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
| This time, I pointed out how ridiculous it is that we go to four different sources for organic meat, milk, eggs and produce and then spray and spread the very stuff we're trying to avoid so our children can roll in it . |
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Great point...I'll save that one for my ammunition.
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~Rachel~
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GRUBS: milky spore... it's a natural enemy of the grubs.
Milky Spore
from the site:
Milky Spore is a naturally occurring host specific bacterium (Bacillus popillae-Dutky). This product is lethal to a familiar destructive summer-time pest. It targets and discriminately works to attack the white grubs of Japanese Beetles.
hth
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stefoodie
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LOLOL, and I thought I was the only one! This is also a spousal annual debate here. I usually win and order stuff from Gardens Alive (especially when they have the $20 off coupon), but it's the actual USE of the product that doesn't happen yearly -- I guess hubby's thinking on it, and I haven't confronted him about it is: you buy it, you apply it! I think that's why it's so much easier for him to sign up for a service because he doesn't have to worry about it on top of the mowing, edging, etc.
One cautionary note: one year I bought rye seed from GA to prepare the yard for next year's gardens. But then we had to go out of town several times, then we got the sickies, etc. IOW, it never got done, so the rye seed stayed in the family room (near the door leading to the deck) for several months -- I put it there to remind myself to do it. Next thing we know we were infested with these red bugs... and they migrated to our flour supply, cornmeal, etc.
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Dawn
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Doesn't sound like she got a whole lot of support at the local nursery. |
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No I didn't, Elizabeth!  The man was really nice, but he really wanted to sell me something  ... And I'm standing there with my little packets of pumpkin seeds and a flat of herbs and he's just shaking his head at me. 
My dh is actually even more pro-organic than I am. But we've had pretty good success with organic lawn care so far. We don't use sprinklers and when we mow we leave the grass a little longer than average ...Our lawn is not a lush emerald carpet, but we do find ours is as green as ~ if not greener than! ~ our neighbors' True-Green Chem-Lawn turf come August!
Of course, now we have grubs to deal with so I guess that shows us ... 
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Karen T
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Elizabeth wrote:
| This time, I pointed out how ridiculous it is that we go to four different sources for organic meat, milk, eggs and produce and then spray and spread the very stuff we're trying to avoid so our children can roll in it . Now, I just have to keep the grass alive... |
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elizabeth, we've had the debate here for years too. Dh has reluctantly allowed me to order mostly organic stuff and used for several years; however, last year we invested a large amount of money and time in digging up our front yard and putting sod down, only to have nutsedge creep in somewhere and it's taking over one corner of the yard. we tried digging it out, overseeding, etc. but it is tough to kill as it's a perennial and I have reluctantly acquiesed to some chemical control in that area only.
However, what you said about the kids being in the grass is so true! There is a definite link between lawn chemicals and bladder cancer in Scottie dogs, and I'm sure there will be links in humans as well, but I am betting the pesticide/herbicide companies are doing everything possible to suppress funding for studies on it.
Do you compost? Spreading compost on your lawn and in flower beds is very healthy for controlling diseases and improving the tilth of the soil, in addition to adding fertility. It's hard for me to make enough compost for the lawn in addition to the garden beds, but some counties make it from the leaves they pick up from people who don't compost, and you can buy it by the truckload then. we also use a mulching blade on our mower to let the clippings fall on the grass.
Karen T
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Dawn
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Dh just called from work so I picked his brain on organic lawn care.  Here are his notes:
1. Leave the grass longer to promote a deeper root system (deeper roots = a stronger plant = a stronger healthier lawn).
2. Water deeply but less often ~ deeper roots need a deeper watering, but you won't have to do it as often. Shallow frequent watering is far less beneficial to the lawn.
3. Water in the morning, not at night ~ night watering promotes pests because the grass doesn't have a chance to dry off.
4. Also, longer grass leaves less room for weed seeds to take hold.
5. We use a mulching mower which churns up the grass which eventually works back into the soil.
6. Top dress the lawn lightly in the spring with organic top soil.
Hope that helps someone!
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Sarah
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We second Garden's Alive. However, because the fertilizer is a corn by-product, our dog grazes like a cow in the yard, eating it. It doesn't seem to hurt her, though. I guess it IS safe because she's been eating it for years.
Organic lawn care means your lawn will not look like a perfectly green turf.
It means you will have weeds.
It means you may have different types of grasses growing together.
Turf grass is for England, not America. These grasses are produced to respond to chemicals.
You'll have to lower your standards. It was really hard for my dh to come to terms with this since we were living in "tweezer-ville." (meaning--people look like they care for their yards with tweezers). Everyone's yards were perfect.
We were the odd-balls with blood meal, bone meal, and kelp fertilizer. And then also using Gardens Alive later.
Also, organic gardening is more work and more money. The pay-off is safety and better health.
Prepare your husband, however, that the grass will be different. If he's been putting down stuff to prevent dandelions, crabgrass, etc. and he doesn't do it this year, next spring might be a big blow as the clover, dandelions, and crabgrass creep in.
Now we live in the country and we don't care if there are weeds. And better yet, we are adding native prarie grasses.
I read recently, the English introduced turf grass because its better for livestock and its prettier in your yard. Turf is a carpet. The native grasses were taller and grew in clumps, rather than a carpet. Therefore we have to really go to extreme measures to maintain what's not naturally supposed to be here. Thus the chemicals and large amounts of water.
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lilac hill
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Do the restrictive covenants in your neighborhood say anything about sheep? They fertilize as they trim. 
I have seen milky spore at the local Lowe's so do not forget to look there.
After a soil test I have to add nitrogen, blood meal every 2 months. I am hoping that my fall compost additions will add the necessary nitrogen, but it has not caught up yet.
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JennGM
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Sarah wrote:
| Turf grass is for England, not America. These grasses are produced to respond to chemicals. |
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Which grasses? What we have in America?
Sarah wrote:
| You'll have to lower your standards. It was really hard for my dh to come to terms with this since we were living in "tweezer-ville." (meaning--people look like they care for their yards with tweezers). Everyone's yards were perfect. |
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We live in the same type of neighborhood. Lots of peer pressure and comments from neighbors if it's not looking up to par.
Sarah wrote:
I read recently, the English introduced turf grass because its better for livestock and its prettier in your yard. Turf is a carpet. The native grasses were taller and grew in clumps, rather than a carpet. Therefore we have to really go to extreme measures to maintain what's not naturally supposed to be here. Thus the chemicals and large amounts of water.
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I guess I want to be English. I want a carpet. One of my favorite things to do is to walk in a soft cool grass carpet with bare feet. It's a serious addiction. When I see a perfect lawn, I want to kick off my shoes and walk in it and lie down and look at the clouds. A carry-over from childhood....
So this longing is irreconcilable with organically grown lawns.? 
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Donna Marie
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Definitely a spousal debate. Between the financial aspect and whatever the male wiring is that compels them to compare color and quantity of grass to the guy next door, I have historically lost. This time, I pointed out how ridiculous it is that we go to four different sources for organic meat, milk, eggs and produce and then spray and spread the very stuff we're trying to avoid so our children can roll in it . Now, I just have to keep the grass alive... |
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Oh my! Rofl....same debate here! On SATURDAY we replanted our lawn and I came outside after putting the baby to sleep only to find my dh putting chemical fertilizer in his spreader....we er...um...disagreed and then as he continued to do his thing I went inside and no more than 5 minutes later I found the Gardens Alive site and called them. Evidentally this dh--organic vs chemical yard debate is a complaint of national proportions!!
I told the sales person that my dh JUST planted a yard without my "permission"...what could I do to remedy it and I will be hearing back from a gardening expert  This is right next to the area I was getting ready for my ORGANIC garden and bordering the area I was preparing for my ORGANIC herb garden....I think I need a raised bed for sure this time!! Did I also say that I am a first time gardener and it is frustrating enough trying to figure out the right thing to plant and where and so forth without engaging your own spouse in a...er...discussion?? I don't get it either...he loves the idea of the organic garden, but the yard is another matter...and yes...my kids live out there and surely will eat plenty of dirt before the summers end....ARGGG...but my dh did tell me later if I could find an organic product that would do what he wanted ....he would buy it....sheesh....I would have loved to have done organic from scratch.
One thing that I am doing for myself that I can also do for the yard is brew EM's...it is a natural healthy cleansing thing as well as something you can clean with and use on animals and the yard. They use this stuff in polluted waters and contaminated soils in the orient from what I have been told. I know of a lady that uses it on her farm to great success....here is a site with a lot of info...some of the person's ideas are a little out there but the basic application and premise is a good one...
EM info
This is a forum of Catholic homesteaders that has more practical info on it...
Home-n-Stead
YMMV....it is different yet interesting. I have a culture of this sitting on my counter now...it is a culture that you put into a container with molasses and brew till the ph is below 3.8 alll I can say is...so far i have only used it on me...i have lost 5 lbs without trying and my sugar and food cravings are ZERO...so yeah...I like it! 
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JennGM
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Oh, another thing. Someone (I can't remember) was mourning the loss of their clover, since the Lawn Service accidentally treated their lawn, and not the neighbors.
I don't like clover. See above. It hurts the feet, and I could step on bees. Does that make me incompatible with the CM nature study lifestyle?
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Christine
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We compromise here. My husband uses weed and feed on the front lawn, but he leaves the back lawn alone (other than mowing). We have clovers in the back lawn to prove it. I am usually able to stay on top of the dandelions by handweeding or asking the children, especially the younger ones to please pick some yellow flowers for me. I then allow the children to arrange the dandelions in little bud vases.
Gluten of corn meal is a fairly good weed deterrent.
Sharon Lovejoy's Trowel and Error mentions the following for getting rid of grubs in the lawn:
1. Water deeply.
2. Use a dethatching rake on your lawn (grubs thrive in compacted lawns with a thick thatch).
3. Aerate your lawn.
4. Feed the lawn with compost and grass clippings.
5. Robber flies, wasps, mites, beetles and beneficial nematodes will prey on grubs.
6. Use a shop vacuum to remove pests from the lawn. Dispose of them in hot, soapy water. (pp. 122 & 123)
Sharon Lovejoy's book also offers hints on keeping weeds at bay.
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Sarah
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JennGM wrote:
I guess I want to be English. I want a carpet. One of my favorite things to do is to walk in a soft cool grass carpet with bare feet. It's a serious addiction. When I see a perfect lawn, I want to kick off my shoes and walk in it and lie down and look at the clouds. A carry-over from childhood.... |
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Oh, I agree, Jenn! I love a beautiful carpet of grass. Since we now live on 3 acres- most of it is grass (a carpet) and my husband spends many hours on the riding mower and he LOVES it!
I don't know specifically what grasses come from England. The article I was reading just said turf-type grass. Isn't most of what we have now just engineered? The guy who brought it from England was Mr. Scott. Sound familiar. Scott brand grass stuff?
Don't feel bad Jenn, I love grass, too. I may have come across as a anti-grass nazi in my last post.
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Donna Marie wrote:
One thing that I am doing for myself that I can also do for the yard is brew EM's...it is a natural healthy cleansing thing as well as something you can clean with and use on animals and the yard. They use this stuff in polluted waters and contaminated soils in the orient from what I have been told. I know of a lady that uses it on her farm to great success....here is a site with a lot of info...some of the person's ideas are a little out there but the basic application and premise is a good one...
EM info
This is a forum of Catholic homesteaders that has more practical info on it...
Home-n-Stead
YMMV....it is different yet interesting. I have a culture of this sitting on my counter now...it is a culture that you put into a container with molasses and brew till the ph is below 3.8 alll I can say is...so far i have only used it on me...i have lost 5 lbs without trying and my sugar and food cravings are ZERO...so yeah...I like it! |
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Donna, this is mind boggling. Something to add to the environment but also safe for you to eat. I have never heard of this...so I can see I have a lot of reading to do. Microorganisms...is this different than say, taking probiotics? Sorry, basic question, but I'm trying to grasp here.
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lapazfarm
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I find this fascinating! Especially since ds and I just finished doing a nature study of flower anatomy just from the various flowers growing in our VERY unmanicured lawn! We looked at clover, buttercups, violets, dandelions,wild roses, wild strawberries, and some sort of wild pea flowers all from our lawn! And here I was thinking how lucky we were!
I just love the diversity of lifestyles on this board!
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Elizabeth
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lapazfarm wrote:
I find this fascinating! Especially since ds and I just finished doing a nature study of flower anatomy just from the various flowers growing in our VERY unmanicured lawn! We looked at clover, buttercups, violets, dandelions,wild roses, wild strawberries, and some sort of wild pea flowers all from our lawn! And here I was thinking how lucky we were!
I just love the diversity of lifestyles on this board! |
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I think you are lucky, Theresa. I don't think "diversity" is allowed in our neighorhood when it comes to lawns.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Dawn
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Sarah wrote:
| It was really hard for my dh to come to terms with this since we were living in "tweezer-ville." (meaning--people look like they care for their yards with tweezers). Everyone's yards were perfect. |
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Sarah, we must live in the same neighborhood! People are soooo serious about their lawns on our street. But you know, like Theresa pointed out, then you don't get all those neat little things in your lawn like creeping charlie and henbit and butter-and-eggs, not to mention all the wildlife.
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: Organic Lawn Care
