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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: May 08 2012 at 1:25pm | IP Logged
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Bumping this as I figure others might be interested in revisiting this thread now that planning season is upon us!
Mackfam wrote:
| I count all living books, whether they are read aloud or independently as part of the book/page count. This includes natural history, religion/faith, literature, history, Shakespeare...any living book. I don't always count picture books as a part of our page count. |
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Does your morning basket figure into these page counts at all?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 08 2012 at 2:13pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Does your morning basket figure into these page counts at all?
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Yes.  It typically bumps a child's pages-per-term reading up by about 200 pages each term.
We read around 3 - 5 pages each morning from various books :: 5 days a week :: 10 weeks in a term. That's 150 - 250 pages per term just from the Morning Basket.
I keep the ballpark number of 200 (pages from the Morning Basket) in mind as I check a child's page counts when I'm planning so I don't overload.
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Jen Mackintosh
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AmandaV
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Mackfam wrote:
CrunchyMom wrote:
Does your morning basket figure into these page counts at all?
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Yes. It typically bumps a child's pages-per-term reading up by about 200 pages each term.
We read around 3 - 5 pages each morning from various books :: 5 days a week :: 10 weeks in a term. That's 150 - 250 pages per term just from the Morning Basket.
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This Is again, oh so helpful, Jen! So you are only reading 3-5 pages each morning during morning basket? I was imagining and attempting 2 pages from 5 books or more each day. A smaller number of pages sounds much more manageable.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 08 2012 at 2:52pm | IP Logged
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Yes. Only 3 - 5 pages each morning. But remember Suzanne's helpful definition of "a page" from page 2 of this thread?
SuzanneG wrote:
| A page is defined as about 300 words. So, for example King Alfred and the Cakes in Fifty Famous Stories is 516 words. So, almost 2 pages. |
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So some of our meatier books, like reading from Marchute's Shakespeare, or from Plutarch are a strict 1 - 2 pages a day. But, for picture books we read more "actual pages" (usually 5 or 6) and the total word count is really only one page worth of words, or at least that's how I count it. A lot of our Morning Basket time is in the discussions, the narrations, the explorations, the picture and composer study (which don't count as pages), nature walks. The reading time is reasonable, but if you look at that term figure of ~200 pages, you can see that consistent reading, a little each day, yields a significant moving ahead each term.
And again, I just go with my instinct in feeling much of this out when I plan the Morning Basket. I just have a sense of, "This is going to be too much reading aloud - I'm going to lose one of the boys," or, "There is room for another book on a composer here." I think most moms have that natural intuitive sense, and it's our best tool. Anyway, when I back-check the figures, it always seems to fit within that target range for us of between 150 and 250 pages a day.
I'm really glad it was helpful, Amanda!
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Jen Mackintosh
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AmandaV
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| Posted: May 08 2012 at 11:27pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Yes. Only 3 - 5 pages each morning. But remember Suzanne's helpful definition of "a page" from page 2 of this thread?
SuzanneG wrote:
| A page is defined as about 300 words. So, for example King Alfred and the Cakes in Fifty Famous Stories is 516 words. So, almost 2 pages. |
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I think I missed that page of this thread the first time, as I wasn't ready for page counting yet! The definition of PAGE helps. I think sometimes
Mackfam wrote:
And again, I just go with my instinct in feeling much of this out when I plan the Morning Basket. I just have a sense of, "This is going to be too much reading aloud - I'm going to lose one of the boys," or, "There is room for another book on a composer here." I think most moms have that natural intuitive sense, and it's our best tool. Anyway, when I back-check the figures, it always seems to fit within that target range for us of between 150 and 250 pages a day.
I'm really glad it was helpful, Amanda! |
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Sometimes, I have the natural intuitive sense, but I don't listen to it because I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do. Especially something that is so different from "traditional' school environments. And sometimes, I don't have it at all, or I'm too tired to hear it. :)
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Grace&Chaos
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| Posted: May 09 2012 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
Yes. Only 3 - 5 pages each morning. But remember Suzanne's helpful definition of "a page" from page 2 of this thread?
SuzanneG wrote:
| A page is defined as about 300 words. So, for example King Alfred and the Cakes in Fifty Famous Stories is 516 words. So, almost 2 pages. |
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So some of our meatier books, like reading from Marchute's Shakespeare, or from Plutarch are a strict 1 - 2 pages a day. But, for picture books we read more "actual pages" (usually 5 or 6) and the total word count is really only one page worth of words, or at least that's how I count it. A lot of our Morning Basket time is in the discussions, the narrations, the explorations, the picture and composer study (which don't count as pages), nature walks. The reading time is reasonable, but if you look at that term figure of ~200 pages, you can see that consistent reading, a little each day, yields a significant moving ahead each term.
And again, I just go with my instinct in feeling much of this out when I plan the Morning Basket. I just have a sense of, "This is going to be too much reading aloud - I'm going to lose one of the boys," or, "There is room for another book on a composer here." I think most moms have that natural intuitive sense, and it's our best tool. Anyway, when I back-check the figures, it always seems to fit within that target range for us of between 150 and 250 pages a day.
I'm really glad it was helpful, Amanda! |
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Jen, since we seem to be visiting your Morning Basket routine; I had a few thoughts/questions. I'll have four "students" this fall. The youngest a first grader the oldest a 7th grader by age but doing 8th/9th grade work and a 2nd, 4th in between. Two little ones still on the side lines  . I love the idea of bringing them all together for some morning time and introducing the younger students to more routines for certain subjects like poetry, composers, picture study, natural history ... But as you mentioned on your post; this basket could really stand alone as a full days work if allowed to so some of my questions are:
For your older children do you still assign books that might overlap some of the things you're already covering in the MB?
For example, the Headstrom book, would your hs and 6th grader still get another naturalist book to read independently?
When you're planning the Morning Basket does it affect your individual plans for the kids?
Do your individual plans now get heavier on the three "R's", history, geography and science?
Thanks Jen, I'm sure I'll have some more as I keep putting my plans together.
I was also wondering if anyone else follows a Morning Basket like this and if you've enjoyed it? We've done parts but my individual plans always seem very complete with all these components that I feel quilty adding more to their day  I have to say that the idea of just a few pages per day doesn't seem over kill. 
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Willa
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Hi, I loved Jen's helpful layout of the CM page-scheduling guide and tweaked it to a vertical format.
I also added page number totals based on a quarterly/semester schedule which is what my family is using this year. The quarterly calculations are marked in red in my form.
You can view or download over here -- I'm sharing with Jen's permission [: )]
Schedule of Pages (PDF)
Schedule of Pages (docx)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: May 09 2012 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
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Good questions, Jenny! I'll have to really think on some of these.
Just for reference, I'll put the Morning Basket post here in case the idea of it is totally foreign for anyone that might be reading.
I have a wide age span, too, (11th grade - Preschool/Kinder next year) and the Morning Basket has provided a very nice common time for us to read and work together. When I think of our Morning Basket work over the years, I think it probably most closely resembles a PNEU school because I have more of a group dynamic with multiple children narrating, offering observations, etc. I have really enjoyed it over the years, and it has deepened and I've learned wonderful lessons along the way, too!
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| as you mentioned on your post; this basket could really stand alone as a full days work if allowed to |
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Yes. But, as I also mentioned, you wouldn't want to make a habit of this. But yes, the basket is meaty enough that it can stand for a day if we need it to. This works well on a day when we have outside the home errands.
Grace&Chaos wrote:
For your older children do you still assign books that might overlap some of the things you're already covering in the MB?
For example, the Headstrom book, would your hs and 6th grader still get another naturalist book to read independently? |
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The answer to this question is: sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Yes for Natural History reading. For my older children, I have always chosen a particular naturalist for them to read for the year. It has always proven to be some of the most rewarding reading for my children. Last year my daughter thoroughly enjoyed Gene Stratton Porter's natural history works. Those are read independently and in addition to the MB.
And the answer for the other subjects we cover in the MB just depends on the subject and the child. I'm less likely to repeat with a younger child if we cover something in the MB. ** There are no other composer or picture study times or books other than the ones in our Morning Basket.
** And usually, poetry is enjoyed primarily in the MB, and not listed further on a child's individual lesson plans.
** Music history is only covered in the MB.
** There may or may not be additional virtue/character building reading in addition to the MB reading.
** Each older child (5th grade +) reads a Shakespeare play independently each year.
** My 11th grader will read Plutarch independently next year, in addition to us reading it aloud in the MB. Plutarch is a little bit of an experiment in the MB. I didn't think he'd work there very well, but my little kids seem to stay and listen for Plutarch reading, too.  But, it might be a better fit as an individual read for other families. Anyway, you can see that the answer to this question really varies quite a bit - and can vary from child to child, year to year, and subject to subject.
Each year the MB evolves and there might be different things in it. One of our favorite years was when we read Grammar Land aloud for the MB. That book REALLY works well as a read aloud! I didn't do any formal grammar that year to supplement the MB grammar. We just naturally tied our Grammar Land reading into our dictations.
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| When you're planning the Morning Basket does it affect your individual plans for the kids? |
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Hmmmmmmmm......... I guess....sort of. I take the page counts into account as I mentioned, and I do consider the subjects we're going to cover in the MB, too. I've usually got book ideas planned for the MB before I complete individual book lists though.
Grace&Chaos wrote:
| Do your individual plans now get heavier on the three "R's", history, geography and science? |
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I don't think my plans get any heavier on those topics. I'm going to cover history/literature in a liberal and deep way regardless of what's going on in the MB, but there are some topics that won't repeat on a child's individual plans. For example, you won't see picture study on individual plans, nor composer study - because we do those things exclusively in the MB. We like to do poetry recitation as part of our MB, too, so it probably won't show up on individual lesson plans again.
In general, some things just seem to lend themselves well to family enjoyment. We like reading poetry aloud together. We like reading Shakespeare aloud together. So, if it's a topic or book we'd all enjoy together, I put it in the MB.
I'll probably end up repeating this quite a bit, and perhaps it warrants it - the Morning Basket is so flexible. It sort of naturally molds itself around a family's primary style, and it can be whatever you need it to be. Bulk up the reading in it a little more if you enjoy reading aloud and want some of those subjects to stand alone, and then don't repeat them on individual lesson plans. I don't do that precisely because of my age spread. I want the common time together, I enjoy nurturing that group dynamic because the big kids set great examples for the little kids (not interrupting, narrating, observing skills), and it gives us opportunities to work as a group on habits. But my big kids have enough independent reading that I need the MB to not be too heavy, or that would significantly take away from their reading time.
In case it's helpful - for those of us with a wide age spread:
In general, not always (Plutarch being a prime example), my MB reading is going to err on a younger age-appropriate level content wise, and this is for my younger children. I don't want them to be lost. I looked at my MB last term and averaged it out and I think I came up with 4th grade level as an average. And again.....a living book resists strict age level dating because it engages the 16 yo AND the 6 yo!!! I have found this to be true again and again!
The Morning Basket is, in general, a great place for read alouds, a great place for some of the fine arts, a great place to work on hymns, folksongs, music, a fantastic time for handicrafts, nature walks, and a great place to work on good group habits. I even put Latin in there one year and I was amazed at how well it worked! How you structure and arrange it and how it affects individual children's plans from there can be very flexible.
Hope that's a help, Jenny!!
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Willa wrote:
Hi, I loved Jen's helpful layout of the CM page-scheduling guide and tweaked it to a vertical format.
I also added page number totals based on a quarterly/semester schedule which is what my family is using this year. The quarterly calculations are marked in red in my form.
You can view or download over here -- I'm sharing with Jen's permission [: )]
Schedule of Pages (PDF)
Schedule of Pages (docx) |
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This is great, Willa! Thank you for sharing it! I love helping each other out!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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Grace&Chaos
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Mackfam wrote:
| Hope that's a help, Jenny!! |
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Oh yes, thanks  
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Jenny
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| Posted: May 10 2012 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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I am so glad this discussion got bumped up for this new planning season!
Looking at readings in terms of page counts is very helpful for me. I realized that I am assigning too much reading in the course of our day. For example, yesterday my 4th grader was narrating from 42 pages yesterday, and my 1st grader from 30! The first grader's work was all read aloud and all but 15 pages of the 4th grader's work was read aloud. I can see very clearly now that I need to be more discerning about what I use for assigned/read-aloud reading. But there are just so many good books out there!! 
I was thinking of this in particular as I read a chapter from Tree Wagon yesterday. In this chapter (about 15 pages), there was a neat discussion of buffalo chips, then the children hear what sounds like thunder. They go to the top of the next rise and see a huge herd of buffalo. Then they watch some Native Americans swoop down for a hunt, then return to camp. They are preparing some food, when the Indians come into camp. They eat the settlers' food, then notice the tree wagon. Seenie has a long imaginative episode about the Indians wanting to adopt her, then she goes to hide with her sisters in another wagon. At the end, the Native Americans leave, placing a large piece of meat on the tree wagon. There's a lot going on there - with lots of possibilities for discussion and rabbit trails! But as we read it then narrated, the kids mostly focused on the last part - really, the last 4 pages. And they narrated that well and we had a good discussion of that. But the other parts? Not so much. They remembered (when I asked, "so what happened before that?" Which perhaps is a leading question!) but they didn't have the same spark when considering the earlier part of the chapter. But if we had read the chapter in four page sections, I think we would have had a good discussion about each part. And it would also take us two months (at least!) to read the book!
So I think I understand much better now why short readings are so important, and this is giving me much food for thought. Like I said before, it is time for me to be much more selective about what we read, and to be ok with taking a lot longer to move through a book. I guess that also means I need to be more selective about what events and episodes in history we learn about as well, since we won't be able to include as many books.
I suppose I'm rambling now, and perhaps preaching to the choir too... but thank you, all, for helping me to better understand this concept!
Amber
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Mackfam
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Amber,
I'm so glad these discussions have been helpful! It is a wonderful time to begin turning some of these thoughts over.
Willa wrote:
| Hi, I loved Jen's helpful layout of the CM page-scheduling guide and tweaked it to a vertical format. |
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I was inspired by Willa's vertical format! I thought that was so helpful, and I have no idea why my head was stuck on a horizontal format. Every time I flip open my notebook to reference my chart, and have to turn my notebook...   .....what was I thinking???
Anyway, as I was freshly inspired, I flipped my version of the chart to a vertical format, too! Thought I'd pop it up here! Thank you SO MUCH for sharing yours, Willa, and inspiring me further! I am so grateful!
2012-05-10_151529_Scheduling_Books_and_Pages_--_Vertical_ori ent.pdf
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Jen Mackintosh
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I decided that today would be "Bump-a-Favorite-Older-Thread-Thursday"!
Since I'm delightfully considering our year next year, and planning booklists and reading with those delicious page-a-day planning sheets, I decided to bump this thread today!
Anyone else planning booklists and considering pages?
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Jen Mackintosh
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kristacecilia
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Me! Glad to see this one back up, too. I'll have to re-read it. Although, for this coming year, I will be relying heavily on Ambleside Online's booklists. I am just getting to the point where taking care of this family is winning over building my own booklists.
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I'll be in the thick of planning starting next week Have already got my books chosen, now just need to do the nitty-gritty plans plus some tweaking of my schedule.
I'm sure I'll be revisiting this thread then--so much helpful info! Thanks, Jen and Willa especially!
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: How many pages? What books?
