| Author | |
Mary's daughter
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 13 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 170
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 2:13pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Jen's Language arts series
I noticed in Jen's post on language arts that her children decorate a plain binder for their copy work. I've also seen that other women do this for various reasons...home keeping notebooks, history timeline books, ect. I am terribly arts and crafts challenged! How are you decorating a binder with notebook paper?
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 2:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I was just coming here to post a link to Jen's AMAZING!!!! set of posts. 
Jen,you are such an inspiration! You really make this CM thing seem doable!
Jen's Language arts series
As for your question, Stephanie, you just get the clearview binders with a slot to insert paper into the front/back of the binder. It's as simple as that!
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes....LOVE THE SERIES SO FAR!!!! Thanks, Jen!
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes lets' talk Jen's LA program, I have some questions. 
Jen or anyone who'd love to chime in,
In Jen's second post she discusses narration. Now I was always under the impression that it would be good to try to get at least one written narration per child per week. (Don't know where I got that from) I've struggled mightily to find time (they have soo much to say), keeping in mind I'm talking children under 10 so I am writing for them. So it rarely gets done.
I posed a rough question to Jen about this and from her answer I'm assuming she waits until they can write their own narrations for the written copy. (Is this correct Jen?) So what does everyone else do for narration? Do you scribe for your under 10s, often, occasionally or never?
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Having gone back and looked at CM's original thoughts on the subject, I am of the opinion that you should not regularly write down narrations for those too young to write their own.
I was originally inspired to go back and re-read CM on the subject because I stumbled upon an old post by Alice Gunther, who was adamant about not writing down narrations:
alicegunther wrote:
Whatever you do, don't write them down!
I've been re-reading (at Lissa's urging) Charlotte Mason's Philosophy of Education. What an eye-opener it is. CM never advised that narrations be written down (at least not until the children are old enough to produce written narrations themselves). Narrations are meant to exhibit comprehension of the material and help the child hone his memory and composition skills through the spoken word. The narration process and the knowledge acquired thereby is the goal in and of itself and no work product need be created. (Lissa has written quite a bit about this in the past few months, and I urge you to visit her blog, the Lilting House for more.)
Like you, I have seven children, and I've often joked that I would need a court stenographer to take down the narrations. For years, I would get them to narrate but little because I dreaded having to write or type every word (usually while losing the attention of all the others). Now that I am back to using CM's philosophy exactly as it was intended, my school age children (four of them) are giving me two narrations per day--each. That's right! This would have been completely impossible when I still labored under the yoke of recording narrations!
And you would not believe how easy and what a pleasure it is. I don't have to keep telling the children to slow down while I write, and so they are able to speak naturally and without interruption.
As for work product, that is exactly where it should be--in their heads! The process of narration helps the children remember facts and stories like nothing else in the world. I am so happy it has returned to grace our daily lives once more.
|
|
|
That really got me thinking and reading and I have to admit I have come to the same conclusion as Alice on this one.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
That is helpful! Alice always gives such practical perspectives!
And Jen, thank you for those posts!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
| Yes lets' talk Jen's LA program, I have some questions. |
|
|
Oh, good idea, Erin!!!! Everyone just POP ON IN here to pose any question that popped into your brain while reading the posts!
Quote:
| So what does everyone else do for narration? Do you scribe for your under 10s, often, occasionally or never? |
|
|
I'd say occasionally.
:: Type their narration, print out, they illustrate. This would be for something that they'd be putting in a notebook, etc. 1/month/child
:: Type on their blog. Maybe 1-2/month/child.
I remember reading Alice's post, Theresa and it made sense. It adds a lot of stress and time. But, I do like the concept of "putting words to paper" occasionally for them. It helps them realize that what they are saying is the beginning of the writing process.
But, it's a very small part of our narrating.
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, I'm just finding you all here! How fun!!! A party!! 
Erin wrote:
| I posed a rough question to Jen about this and from her answer I'm assuming she waits until they can write their own narrations for the written copy. (Is this correct Jen?) |
|
|
Yes! That's it. Oral narrations here until they're writing their own.
Now, I do transition them as they are getting ready for written narrations. Before I begin asking a child for a written narration, I transcribe a few (not all) of their narrations for them. I do it with a word processor program and print it out for them to read. We discuss it together. This isn't a time for critical analysis. My daughter noticed right away that her very detailed narrations would need to move more towards summaries, and she transitioned very naturally on her own. Seeing their narrations written out helped her tremendously in her writing because like Suzanne said, she could *see* what she was narrating. My son is just at that transition point. I won't be asking for written narrations from him for a while, but I will probably transcribe a few of his narrations for him this year.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: July 09 2010 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary's daughter wrote:
I noticed in Jen's post on language arts that her children decorate a plain binder for their copy work. I've also seen that other women do this for various reasons...home keeping notebooks, history timeline books, ect. I am terribly arts and crafts challenged! How are you decorating a binder with notebook paper?
Stephanie |
|
|
Hi Stephanie!
You can use any 3 ring binder that has clear cover inserts. Find some scrapbook paper at the hobby store. Choose a pattern/color...or let your kids choose their paper...or both . Cut it to fit those insertable covers on the 3 ring binder and voila! You have a customized notebook decorated to suit your style and tastes! AND...the great thing is...you can just pull out the old decorative cover at the end of the year and put in fresh scrapbook paper covers in your 3 ring binder and you have a TOTALLY NEW LOOK!
I think I uploaded this picture of my daughter's notebooks on this thread about notebooks which you might find fun to read through --> Describe Your Notebooks Please
Here's a pic for you:
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Becky Parker
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2582
|
| Posted: July 10 2010 at 5:55am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just jumping in here to say I too, have enjoyed the posts Jen! I spent our Spring Break vacation re-reading all of my Charlotte Mason books and making some plans as to how to get back to implementing much of her methodology in our day. I saw that we really hadn't left CM, I just didn't think about it as much. Narration, copywork, etc are big parts of our day but it's good to re-read about, remember why we do it, and get re-focused. Thanks for all the work and time you put into those posts!
__________________
Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Becky Parker
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2582
|
| Posted: July 10 2010 at 5:59am | IP Logged
|
|
|
SuzanneG wrote:
[
Quote:
| So what does everyone else do for narration? Do you scribe for your under 10s, often, occasionally or never? |
|
|
I'd say occasionally.
:: Type on their blog. Maybe 1-2/month/child.
|
|
|
This is what we did last year. I actually set up a blog for my dd (10 yo) so she could type up her narrations. She has great typing skills and loves to do it so the blog was an incentive. I will continue this for next year since we had such positive results.
__________________
Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary's daughter
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 13 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 170
|
| Posted: July 10 2010 at 9:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you, Theresa and Jen. How very simple! I thought it was some complicated thing!
I, too, am enjoying the series. Thank you, Jen, for taking the time to explain and share.
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
DianaC
Forum Pro
Joined: March 27 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 404
|
| Posted: July 19 2010 at 6:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jen,
I wanted to say thank-you too for these wonderful posts! I've read a couple of them over the last couple of days as I've been watching the Simply Charlotte Mason All-Day Seminar.
The details that you've included are so helpful! As I'm researching ways to improve our schooling experience and work within my dd's learning styles, it's great to be able to read about the nitty-gritty of real experiences. Thank-you!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SuzanneG
Forum Moderator
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Idaho
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5465
|
| Posted: July 19 2010 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
re: NARRATION
Every year, I go to Lindafay's website to "refresh" the nut-and-bolts of a CM education. I just LOVE her posts too! Jen linked them on a couple of her LA posts. If you haven't clicked over, it's very worth it.
I wanted to pull this out from this post on narration from Lindafay's website that I remember made such an impression on me a few years ago:
Lindafay wrote:
| Personally, I've done the research and have tested it extensively on my own children and I stand amazed at the results. I contemplated titling this post NARRATION CHANGED MY LIFE! It's kind of humorous, but it really is true. It has not only greatly simplified my planning and lightened my workload, but it has enabled my children to really learn their subject matter. Whenever I evaluate my children, I notice that their greatest knowledge and amount of love for a subject always comes from the passages they narrated aloud earlier in the year. Usually, if they didn't narrate to me, then later, they couldn't recall what they read very well. Not only that, but frequent narration has caused their verbal skills to surge remarkably and this has naturally transferred over into their writing. Narration has taught them to organize their thoughts and speak with clarity and style. I challenge those who have never tried this method to look into it. |
|
|
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:38am | IP Logged
|
|
|
DianaC wrote:
Jen,
I wanted to say thank-you too for these wonderful posts! I've read a couple of them over the last couple of days as I've been watching the Simply Charlotte Mason All-Day Seminar.
The details that you've included are so helpful! As I'm researching ways to improve our schooling experience and work within my dd's learning styles, it's great to be able to read about the nitty-gritty of real experiences. Thank-you! |
|
|
Thank YOU, Diana, for your kind words!!! I'm so glad you found them helpful! It was fun sharing!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: July 28 2010 at 4:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I know you are mostly on holidays still, but I wanted to share we have been putting some of Jen's practices to work here. Jen's dictation posts and narration posts I can now quote verbatim 
I have been toying with Spelling Wisdom for some time and I finally took the plunge, I am so pleased!
Yesterday I printed and bound all 5 books! Whew. These books are far more incredible than I realised at first.
They have far more in them than I realised, frankly we will be lucky to cover a book in two years. And the quality! I told my teens last night if they can spell all the words in their books I'll retire a happy woman. They are hard! and the amount they have to write by the end of the two years, wow! As I told the teens though don't get intimidated as they work you up to that.
We have already used the first two lessons and the children are coping well, they like the fact they can study the dictation passage first.
For so long I thought, "I can just use good literature, we have plenty about." And it's true I can, and did, but...This program has deliberately been designed to cover the 6000 most commonly used words, with six students it is so convenient for me, and they will extend my children far more than I did. Obviously I haven't been expecting enough. I'm very excited! I think you can tell Yesterday my ds15 spelt 'eloquence'!
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: July 28 2010 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
| I know you are mostly on holidays still, but I wanted to share we have been putting some of Jen's practices to work here. Jen's dictation posts and narration posts I can now quote verbatim |
|
|
Great balls of fire!! Hey!!! If you are quoting me, "great balls of fire" should now be a part of your Australian vocabulary! I love imagining how it would sound from you...minus my slight southern accent.
Erin wrote:
I have been toying with Spelling Wisdom for some time and I finally took the plunge, I am so pleased!
Yesterday I printed and bound all 5 books! Whew. These books are far more incredible than I realised at first.
They have far more in them than I realised, frankly we will be lucky to cover a book in two years. And the quality! I told my teens last night if they can spell all the words in their books I'll retire a happy woman. They are hard! and the amount they have to write by the end of the two years, wow! As I told the teens though don't get intimidated as they work you up to that.
We have already used the first two lessons and the children are coping well, they like the fact they can study the dictation passage first.
For so long I thought, "I can just use good literature, we have plenty about." And it's true I can, and did, but...This program has deliberately been designed to cover the 6000 most commonly used words, with six students it is so convenient for me, and they will extend my children far more than I did. Obviously I haven't been expecting enough. I'm very excited! I think you can tell Yesterday my ds15 spelt 'eloquence'! |
|
|
I know exactly what you mean! I do still pull some dictations from Literature, but the Spelling Wisdom series just has an amazing selection compiled!! I thought the same thing as you when I got a couple of books! And...I LOVE that they're available for download for you!!!! I do prefer a paper book, but for you gals across the pond, purchasing and downloading a pdf means that shipping doesn't make a resource completely UN-affordable. 
Woo-hoo, Erin!!!!! I'm so thrilled that your return to studies has been met with enthusiasm from the children (read that on your blog!) and marked with inspiration in your point of view! How refreshing! That kind of thing really builds morale and settles in around here, and I'm always so grateful for it when it does!  for your kind words! And permission granted to use "Great balls of fire" any time the milk spills!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 11:51pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Great Balls of Fire, was thinking of your words of wisdom during dictation today Jen.
I know you only read your dictation sentence once, but by golly my ds13 just can't seem to retain it in his head. I can see why this is an important skill though, to be able to retain more than 3 words at a time is my goal for him at present. It is called paying attention!!
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 11:28am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Love hearing this from you, Erin!!!
Erin wrote:
| ... was thinking of your words of wisdom during dictation today Jen. I know you only read your dictation sentence once, but by golly my ds13 just can't seem to retain it in his head. I can see why this is an important skill though, to be able to retain more than 3 words at a time is my goal for him at present. It is called paying attention!! |
|
|
I know! It is tough! But what a great way to build the habit of attention!!
I do have some ideas for you that I employ with my 10 yo boy. He tends to become overwhelmed easily when he's trying to do too many things at once - remember the entire phrase I just read aloud, remember how to spell a word, remember any punctuation. I noticed he started struggling more with remembering the selection when I started moving him toward longer dictation selections.
Here are some tools I'm using with this child to help him:
** Shorten the selection I read aloud significantly. I dropped back to 5 - 6 words only. I'll add more words once he's feeling more comfortable.
** Spend an extra day studying the dictation.
** I remind him before we start that I will only read a selection once. If he *blanks/spaces out* with a word or phrase, he is to write a long line on the paper where the word should be, like he's underlining the missing word/words/phrase...and move on to the point in the dictation that he remembers. Doing this gives him a tool to use so he doesn't just sit there staring into space...at which point he loses the entire phrase in his memory. After he's written all he can remember, he can either think some more on the missing word/phrase, or he can leave it blank and let it sit in the front of his mind as he writes the rest of the dictation. I've been pleased because doing this he has gone back and filled in missing words in all of his dictations.
These tools/techniques keep him from sitting there, harumphing, proclaiming that he can't remember anything, and getting all wrapped up in himself - they keep his hands busy and his mind engaged and focused during the dictation. If he misses words...he misses words. We try again later or we just let it go...and I consider how much I'm reading aloud at once to him.
Not sure if any of this would be applicable for your situation/son, Erin, but I thought I'd share because I can commiserate with this situation.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 1:13pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok, maybe I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that you only read aloud the amount your child can retain. For instance, in a longer passage you would read small chunks of it and wait for him to write, and then read some more, etc, until the passage is complete.
If this is the case, then the length of the passage is not as significant than if you are asking them to write the entire passage from one reading. Then the length would be more significant.
I remember a previous discussion about the differences between the videos describing the WTM (Susan Wise Bauer) method of prepared dictation vs the SCM (Sonya Schaeffer) method. The WTM method seemed to emphasise memorization, while Scm did not. She breaks the passage into chunks as she reads, so that memorization of the passage is unnecessary and the child can focus on grammar, spelling and punctuation of the passage.
My impression is that CM's intent was that dictation is not supposed to be memory work, but grammar, spelling, punctuation work, as SCM preesents it.
It seems like a small thing, but really it is a clear dichotomy in the underlying purpose to the exercise, so it is a more profound difference than it seems at first glance.
What say you ladies???
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Jen's Language Arts Posts
