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Has anyone read this book The Temperament God Gave You by Art and Laraine Bennett?
This thread on Character Building by David Isaacs touched on reading about temperaments, pointing out Father Conrad Hock's classic work. I've read several other books on temperaments, including some from secular viewpoints. I haven't finished the book completely...but have skimmed through. Some of their approach is a bit different than other books, and I'm having a hard time pegging my own temperament. The idea of combined temperaments is only lightly touched upon, and since I'm coming up with almost a "tie" with 2 temperaments, it seems I would be at war within myself.
There's a long quiz at the back of the book and it makes it more confusing than before to me!
I would love to hear other people's feedback on this book. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong!
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Yes, I had myself and several of my kids pegged as sanguine-melancholy and supposedly that is either impossible or would indicate mental illness 
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WJFR wrote:
| Yes, I had myself and several of my kids pegged as sanguine-melancholy and supposedly that is either impossible or would indicate mental illness |
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Yes!! That was another unique perspective...that it would be impossible to have bipolar temperaments in one person. My mother and my sisters and I have been discussing whether or not this could be true.
With my family we have combined temperaments, and many of us (there are 7 siblings) talk about how we have a war going on within ourselves with the conflict of temperaments. Maybe they should write a sequel about combined temperaments!
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Elizabeth
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I have it. I read it. I was confused too and wrote the author (she's a friend of mine). Perhaps she'll join us to discuss it. Let me ask....
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Ladies,
Here is a link to a protestant site that has one of the better temperaments tests on the web I've seen. The definitions are helpful. I have the Bennett's new book but I haven't read it all yet.
I know what you mean about the initial confusion about which temperement you are. I'm almost even on Choleric-Melancholy, really it depends on which direction the wind is blowing  as to which one is the dominant any given day.
Temperament Test
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amiefriedl wrote:
| I know what you mean about the initial confusion about which temperement you are. I'm almost even on Choleric-Melancholy, really it depends on which direction the wind is blowing as to which one is the dominant any given day. |
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That's me, too!
Interesting test. I guess I'm consistent in both tests, but I found some of the questions I could easily answer more than one...must be my split personality coming through.
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I read the book earlier this summer. I drove my family nuts by constantly telling them how this action or that was so typically a certain temperment. After a few scoldings I let that go. 
On the opposite temperments, they did mention in the book that sometimes you have to peel off behaviors to get to the true temperment. I had myself pegged as a melancholic-choleric. When I took the test in the back of the book I came out melancholic-phlematic. I don't know if this is what the authors would come to, but I figured that the choleric part I see is a learned behavior for me. I know that I am not in the least bit extroverted naturally, but I tend to be very take-charge at times. As I thought about it, I decided that it was probably behavior that I learned to survive in my family and in the broader world. It was probably actually phlematic tendencies in that I determined what would please others and adopted those behaviors.
I hope that the authors do chat here. I really enjoyed the book and would love their insight!
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I found that test very interesting. I, too, am choleric/melancholic according to the test. Although choleric is very dominant. I was surprised at the melancholic part, though.
It would be interesting to see if people with particular temperaments tend to be drawn to homeschooling. I am sure there are homeschoolers who fall into every temperament category, but I wonder if there are particular categories into which an unusually large number of homeschoolers would fall into. Do you know what I mean?
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| On the opposite temperaments, they did mention in the book that sometimes you have to peel off behaviors to get to the true temperament. I had myself pegged as a melancholic-choleric. When I took the test in the back of the book I came out melancholic-phlegmatic. I don't know if this is what the authors would come to, but I figured that the choleric part I see is a learned behavior for me. I know that I am not in the least bit extroverted naturally, but I tend to be very take-charge at times. As I thought about it, I decided that it was probably behavior that I learned to survive in my family and in the broader world. It was probably actually phlegmatic tendencies in that I determined what would please others and adopted those behaviors. |
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The test that Amie posted touches several times on mothers being bossy or take-charge doesn't count...that doesn't count as a temperament behavior necessarily, but look at how you act around other people. I thought that was good advice!
Peeling off the learned behavior is hard....now something I haven't come across in this book (but I'm not finished) but have read elsewhere is that most temperaments are inherited. I can see that in our family. We never had a bit of phlegmatic that I could see...and that it's not usual for a temperament to suddenly "appear." BTW, the authors' treatment of phlegmatic is much more positive than I've ever read...which was a breath of fresh air.
But I'm trying to figure out where some of my traits come from...how much do I have to peel? I don't want to sit on the psychiatrist's couch to just figure this out. I'm the peacemaker in the family and I dislike and try to avoid conflict, particularly in family situations. It gives me a knot in my stomach when we have family gatherings and we can't get along....I try to smooth things over with everyone. (I'm the oldest of 7 kids).
That quote from Fiddler on the Roof when Teyve keeps agreeing with opposite sides and a man points out: "He's right, and he's right...they can't both be right." Tevye answer: "You know, you are also right!" would be me in some family matters!
Now, that doesn't necessarily "fit" with my choleric-melancholic temperament. Can you have a "touch" of another temperament? All 4? Or is that something I learned growing up? I don't know...it seems to be a gut reaction from childhood....but would it have been seeing my father's family yelling at each other and I didn't like it? Or not liking my father's "loud" temper? But wouldn't my reaction to not liking the situations come from my basic temperament? I'm not retreating...I'm trying to make peace.
I have to laugh...because this analysis is definitely my melancholic side showing through!!! 
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I was just pondering the other day about homeschooling moms and temperaments. I was really ready to throw in the towel yesterday things are so tough w/hsing right now. My morose melencholy side was really rearing it's ugly head.
My wonder is: would Sanguine dominant personalities make the best elementary school teachers? Remember your favorite elem school teacher? Wasn't she sweet and smiling all of the time?
Then wouldn't it be natural for a melencholy or choleric to be a college professor? Detail oriented and demanding? cutting errant students no slack?
As far as I understand it, you CAN have a blend of all 4 temps at some level. One or two will show up as dominant. The trick is to USE the info you learn about yourself to attack your 'predominant fault' and take yourself closer to heaven. Use the 4 temps knowledge on a supernatural level as opp0sed to a natural level for spiritual benefit and personal growth.
For the moment, I'm praying my little bit of Sanguine will kick in for my young children's sake! 
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amiefriedl wrote:
| I was just pondering the other day about homeschooling moms and temperaments. |
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I was, too, and I'm convinced that most hs moms must have some melancholic and/or choleric in them. It seems they would have to be to "buck" the system and then to analyze how to make things better for your child.
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My wonder is: would Sanguine dominant personalities make the best elementary school teachers? Remember your favorite elem school teacher? Wasn't she sweet and smiling all of the time?
Then wouldn't it be natural for a melencholy or choleric to be a college professor? Detail oriented and demanding? cutting errant students no slack? |
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My favorite teachers were probably choleric/melancholic. I liked the demand and detail work. I LOVED diagramming. I loved challenges. I loved the enthusiasm and love for the work. I've always been a strange kid!  That's probably one of my problems I see in taking up hsing...I LIKED school...I didn't like the social interactions with the kids but I liked answering to a teacher and having the traditional style of schooling.
Quote:
As far as I understand it, you CAN have a blend of all 4 temps at some level. One or two will show up as dominant. The trick is to USE the info you learn about yourself to attack your 'predominant fault' and take yourself closer to heaven. Use the 4 temps knowledge on a supernatural level as opp0sed to a natural level for spiritual benefit and personal growth.
For the moment, I'm praying my little bit of Sanguine will kick in for my young children's sake! |
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Well, then, that makes sense. I can see that in myself. My morose side is coming out this week, too, so I'll send some prayers for you. I think it's because we got a taste of fall and it means summer is coming to an end. I wish I didn't get affected like that, but I do!
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Elizabeth asked me to join your discussion about our book. I am more than happy to answer any questions about the book. Because it can sometimes be confusing, I'd like to clarify the role that temperament plays in one's total personality. Some authors, such as Florence Littauer, say that the temperament is the "real me" and our personality is like the clothes we wear. In our book, we take the traditional Catholic view (cf Reverend Tanquerey or Fr. Jordan Auman) that the temperament is ONE part (albeit important) of our total personality. The temperament is that part which derives from our nature as physical beings. Hence it is good, as all of God's creations, though limited (and, of course, wounded through original sin). Our total personality is also composed of our character (our education, upbringing, the choices we freely make, the virtues we have acquired, etc.). And, of course, grace! So, unlike Littauer, we don't say that temperament is the "real me." But, it is important to understand it, because otherwise we might just be "reacting" to things instinctively. I like to think of Luke 14: 28ff. We are like the king who is taking stock of how many soldiers we have before we go into battle. Understanding our temperament gives us a way to become more effective in developing our virtues (because we will be aware of our weaknesses and can target virtues that will really help us grow), and also a way to be more empathic with our kids, our spouse, and our friends and co-workers. Understanding temperament has long been a part of spiritual direction and formation of priests--but until now, there hadn't been a book on it for Catholics since Fr. Hock's 1934 pamphlet! I heard that he died while in the process of writing that short book--hence the rather undeveloped section on phlegmatics! (If anyone knows the whole story about Fr. Hock, please let me know!) I hope this post is not too long! 
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Willa
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Laraine wrote:
| So, unlike Littauer, we don't say that temperament is the "real me." But, it is important to understand it, because otherwise we might just be "reacting" to things instinctively. I like to think of Luke 14: 28ff. We are like the king who is taking stock of how many soldiers we have before we go into battle. Understanding our temperament gives us a way to become more effective in developing our virtues |
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Dear Laraine,
Thank you very much for being willing to answer questions! I really liked the emphasis in the book about using knowledge about temperaments to help us grow, not excuse our faults
I guess my main question would be: is there a way to tell what is our natural temperament, and what is the layers we have had put on us by upbringing, or by our past efforts to overcome our weaknesses?
With some of the questions to determine temperament, I have had trouble telling what is my REAL self, and what is one of my preoccupations because of my circumstances.
To take a rather lame example, I can't really tell if I am a naturally disorderly person who spends a lot of time thinking about organization because I find it hard to live with disorder, or a naturally orderly person who is often in effect disorderly because of being lazy and/or overwhelmed. 
I came off in the Hock questionnaire as a sanguine/melancholy, but in your book as a melancholy/phlegmatic. The phlegmatic part surprised me but it was one of the things I liked about your book, that you made phlegmatic sound a lot better than Fr Hock did
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Dear Willa,
It can sometimes be difficult to distinguish these factors. But, in our book, it is impossible to be as internally contradictory--in every aspect--as a sanguine-melancholic or a choleric-phlegmatic would be. However, it is very possible that you indeed have a melancholic-phlemgatic temperament. If this is true, you would be much more orderly and have more organization skills and attention to detail than a regular phlegmatic; or at least, on those occasions when you find yourself in disarray, it would bother you a lot! This temperament tends to the helping professions (nurses, social workers, or people who work with charitable organizations). You have the predominance of the melancholic aspect that gives you a sense of the ideal and the attention to detail; while at the same time, you have the phlegmatic aspect which makes you want to help or heal others. It is a great combination--a temperament that loves noble causes and has great interpersonal skills. You wouldn't simply be the person who founds a charitable organization--you would be the person working with the poor and needy. Where the phlegmatic part "undermines" the orderly melancholic is that the phlegmatic has a hard time saying "no." This can result in being overly generous. My nurse friend, for example, finds herself unable to say "no" when the hospital is short-staffed--and then her house gets into disarray, and THEN she is upset or stressed out! Or, she has just worked a 12 hour shift, but she will still bring a meal to a sick neighbor. Does that fit?
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Welcome Laraine! Thanks for dropping by to answer our questions. First of all,  your book is wonderful! I'm previewing it for my mother...she's going to buy all the women in the family a copy of your book for Christmas and then Swimming with Scapular for the guys (there are 7 children in my family, all with spouses now).
This is so great to have a Catholic treatment of the temperaments. Besides Father Hock's book, there was a small treatment in the Daughters of St. Paul older Freshman catechism You're Right to Be Informed...but we were always craving more to flesh it out. It's REALLY helpful in getting along with spouses, raising children and extended family, plus knowing oneself spiritually. So thanks so much for doing this!
I have to really commend you on your descriptions of the temperaments. You have a really positive spin on phlegmatic. My impression of phlegmatic temperament through Father Hock that it was almost impossible to be a saint with that temperament, which just seemed wrong. Why would God make a person so slow that he couldn't get to heaven? I also liked the fleshing out of melancholic explaining that they are good leaders...not necessarily self-appointed, but step in where/when needed. Well, my list could go on and on of what I really like about the book, but what I'm trying to say a lot of light bulbs went on during my reading.
But I also have a few questions. I'm glad to know some of the Catholic sources that you used. I would love to see a bibliography. I had a copy of The Theology of Christian Perfection by Royo and Aumann but hadn't read it through...so it was great to be able to find the chapter dealing with temperaments. You are saying (as they do) that temperament is one part of us, they said it "is something innate and hereditary" and "something permanent and admits of only secondary modification; one's temperament can never be totally destroyed without destroying the individual."
Now...if this be the case, it seems it shouldn't be too hard to be able to find our base temperament? Because it's always there. It seems if we've changed it, it still wouldn't be a permanent change...we should feel the initial reaction before the "correction" kicks in.
We talked about peeling off of layers to be able to find our temperament. How far back or deep do I need to go? During our childhood does our true temperament come forth? Or only through maturity do we see our true temperament? But doesn't maturity usually correct our faults?
I'm really having difficulty understanding my own temperament. I know I have combined temperament choleric and melancholic (almost even in the quizzes), but in reading the descriptions of temperament, I'm not seeing myself. Would the combined temperament make it more difficult?
For example, your section on extravert or introvert makes sense, especially in understanding that "shy" doesn't mean introvert, and one can be social, entertaining and even the life of the party, but yet need to step away and and rebuild one's energy, because it's emotionally draining. That's me, so then I think I have my answer...I'm an introvert.
But then your paragraph on pp. 21-22 The distinguishing feature, therefore, in determining whether you are introverted or extraverted is not whether you are considered shy, but whether you tend to respond internally and passively to stimuli, or (as extraverts do) outwardly and actively. Do you express yourself easily (extraverted) or with some difficulty (introverted)? Do you have an intense inner life (introverted), or do you look externally for value(extraverted)? Are you tempted to resolve conflicts by talking about them (extravert), or do you tend to internalize conflict and rehearse dialogues inside your head (introvert)? Do you find yourself energized and refreshed by social interaction (extraverted), or do you find yourself exhausted by intense social interaction? Do others consider you warm and friendly, or do they say that you are reserved or slow to warm up? leaves me reeling! 
I am quick to respond, and very active and outward in my response....I have a habit of speaking first, "Open mouth, insert foot" is always applied to me. I just say without thinking...and many times I've had to patch up what I've said poorly. I would say it was choleric that I said things that hurt people and I didn't even realize...but then I think later of what I should have said. I always want to talk out my conflicts...but I do have conversations in my head (but I'm thinking I do that when the person isn't around...and I'm planning to pounce and air it all out when they are there or call me). I'm social, but it's emotionally draining. I'm ALWAYS asking questions...I was the kid in class questioning the teacher all the time...here I am again!
So where does that leave me? To me, it's like my melancholic and choleric are at war with each other...as some of my siblings say the same of themselves. Most of the members of my family are hot-tempered,  loud, quick to argue and defend ourselves, yet most of us have much melancholic, which is supposed to be slower to react.
I guess the real question is, how actually do combined temperaments work? Are some of one temperament and some of another, or different aspects of a temperament show themselves on any given day or event?
I'm so sorry this is so long...I guess I need to just hit send!
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WJFR wrote:
| The phlegmatic part surprised me but it was one of the things I liked about your book, that you made phlegmatic sound a lot better than Fr Hock did |
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I see we agree on this point, Willa! It was quite refreshing!
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Dear Jenn,
Thanks for the kind words!I am glad that you are enjoying the book! I will try to get a bibliography together. But basically, we did read everything on temperaments that we could find (except the dog books!)--including some really wacky stuff!
On to your question:
You wrote:"I am quick to respond, and very active and outward in my response....I have a habit of speaking first, "Open mouth, insert foot" is always applied to me. I just say without thinking...and many times I've had to patch up what I've said poorly. I would say it was choleric that I said things that hurt people and I didn't even realize...but then I think later of what I should have said. I always want to talk out my conflicts...but I do have conversations in my head (but I'm thinking I do that when the person isn't around...and I'm planning to pounce and air it all out when they are there or call me). I'm social, but it's emotionally draining. I'm ALWAYS asking questions...I was the kid in class questioning the teacher all the time...here I am again!"
Your description, Jenn, perfectly fits the choleric-melancholic combination that you said you came up with! The two are not "at war" with each other; usually, one will dominate. Most people have a dominant and a secondary temperament. If your dominant temperament is choleric, this will certainly help the melancholic side that tends to dwell on things, or go over conversations in your mind, to be skeptical, or to over-analyze everything. The choleric aspect will add strength of WILL to the melancholic intellect. On the other hand, the down side (as you noted) is a tendency to insert foot in mouth. That is because the choleric impulse is to react immediately, and to take action. And, unfortunately, you get a double-dose of bluntness, from both choleric and melancholic temperaments! The choleric is less extraverted than the sanguine and, with the addition of the melancholic aspect, this makes some social events draining for you. This is overall a very winning combination: you have within you two classic "leader" (very independent) temperaments; this makes you opinionated, outspoken, blunt (you tend to think "logically"), willing to take charge, yet also commited to the noble causes, commited to getting things "right" and strongly persevering in the truth. You also have the capacity to "think big" and see the overall organizational structure and heirarchy of things. Does this sound correct?
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I forgot to mention: I am working with Catholic Match (www.CatholicMatch.com) to design a far superior temperament test to the one that is in our book. They have a math genius, who has plotted all this stuff on charts and graphs, and a team of us (of all different temperaments!) working on the test. We have been testing a development site and soon this site will be available to everyone--not just for those looking for a date!! I will let you all know when it is up and running. So, feel free to let me know if there are any particularly troublesome points that I should consider for the new test!
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Natalia
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Laraine wrote:
| I forgot to mention: I am working with Catholic Match (www.CatholicMatch.com) to design a far superior temperament test to the one that is in our book. |
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Dear Laraine,
I haven't read your book yet but it does sound interesting. I am planning on buying it soon.
I am glad that you are developing a new instrument. I find that sometimes is not the concept that is confusing but the is the instrument we are measuring it with that falls short. I personally found personality and temperament inventories difficul to answer. I find myself arguing with the questions. Maybe that won't happen with yours
Natalia
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Laraine wrote:
| Your description, Jenn, perfectly fits the choleric-melancholic combination that you said you came up with! The two are not "at war" with each other; usually, one will dominate. Most people have a dominant and a secondary temperament. If your dominant temperament is choleric, this will certainly help the melancholic side that tends to dwell on things, or go over conversations in your mind, to be skeptical, or to over-analyze everything. The choleric aspect will add strength of WILL to the melancholic intellect. On the other hand, the down side (as you noted) is a tendency to insert foot in mouth. That is because the choleric impulse is to react immediately, and to take action. And, unfortunately, you get a double-dose of bluntness, from both choleric and melancholic temperaments! The choleric is less extraverted than the sanguine and, with the addition of the melancholic aspect, this makes some social events draining for you. ...Does this sound correct? |
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Wow, Laraine. First of all, you are very positive. When I view the temperaments, I focus/zoom in on the negative sides. It's nice to see such positive feedback on a temperament.
But it does and doesn't sound correct. I'm not the classic leader...I would call myself a reluctant leader. I feel inadequate and sometimes wait until I see the need (low self-esteem). I can't tell if that's just melancholic or perhaps a learned behavior. And I do care what people think of me and failing...so I'm not always independent. To me, that's more melancholic.
So, I know you say one temperament would be dominant, but it's almost a tug of war in my head. Something comes up, my first response in my head is "I'll be in charge...I can do this" ...but then almost right away I don't say anything because I think "I can't do it well enough, someone else is better."...so I don't unless no one else steps up.
My result numbers show even on the score...almost every test I take. To the question "Are you an extravert?" I would say no, "Are you an introvert?" I would say yes...but then can I really claim am I choleric? It seems you talk about THE defining traits between temperaments right at the start is introvert vs. extravert. So is this just the exception to the rule...I can't have an extraverted Sanguine and introverted Melancholic but a choleric extravert can combine with an introvert melancholic?
Sometimes I get frustrated with writing these questions...it's just a simple point I'm trying to understand, but it takes so long for me to write it!
Can I ask another question? I'm trying to understand the terms peacemaker and avoiding conflict. From what I understand, these are either phlegmatic or sanguine personalities. I always thought melancholics were in tune with people's feelings...but I guess I was wrong.
My mother has always been the peacemaker (she's almost all melancholic). She avoids conflicts...doesn't want family fights, etc. I'm very much that way. Although I say things bluntly, I also reading people's faces, trying to see how they are feeling. When I hear an upsetting statement from someone, I try to err on the merciful side "Maybe they are having a bad day" ... This is opposite of my husband who is almost exact in temperament with me...he has a totally blunt view that everyone should think and work efficiently and there's no excuse for slacking.
My question is two prong: 1) Could a melancholic be a peacemaker? Avoiding conflicts? I was wondering if in the cause of preservation of justice that this "role" could come to play.
2) If my striving for family peace is a learned behavior and not my temperament, how can one recognize that this is the case? The feelings inside feel very deep-rooted and not a secondary reaction...but they are opposite my supposed temperaments. Can you just have some FEATURES of another temperament?
Sorry again, for such a long post!
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Temperament That God Gave You
