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Tina P.
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| Posted: June 29 2005 at 5:11pm | IP Logged
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The Well-Trained Mind's author, Susan Wise Bauer has a series started called: The Story of the World. Does anyone have any experience with this series (I think that so far it is only in two volumes from ancient times up through the middle ages) that you would care to share? Looks interesting...I'm a little concerned about the biases she might have, but I have no idea from what Christian standpoint she comes.
Thanks, Tina
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Kelly
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Tina,
We have used and enjoyed SOTW, both the books and the tapes, with the following caveats: Book I-great; Book II-problematic in places; Book III-Watch out!
Book I is great (the ancients). No problem. Book II is pretty good until you get to the end, where it gets goofy about Martin Luther, goes ga ga over "Good Queen Bess" "The Queen who Almost Wasn't" (my 10yo ds wrote a parody on this chapter, "Queen Bess, the Queen who Almost Wasn't Good" or some such thing...  ). Bauer has a very pro-British slant, and a not very positive Catholic outlook, I fear. Book III starts out awfully, full of misrepresentations and sins of omission and commission (she really trashes my historical heroes, Charles V and Philip II) (I don't remember her treatment of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, but I'm sure it's a Huguenots-Great-Catholics-Bad doozie!!!), but then the book gets better once you're past the "reformation" era and into American history. Even there, tho, Catholics in America are given rather short shrift---or do they get ANY shrift? I don't remember, if so, it's precious little. But, given that I read somewhere that Susan Wise Bauer's husband is a Protestant evangelical minister of some sort, I guess all this should come as no surprise! I'm not positive about her husband's job, but I AM positive about the non-positive Catholic slant. It's not that she comes right out and says "those awful Catholics"---not at all. But she does fall back on a lot of historical cant, I think, to the detriment of the Catholic personages, and less frequently to the detriment of the Protestant figures. For Pete's sake, I know it's a children's book, but I definitely found myself getting a little bent out of shape during the late 1400s and 1500's. So, Reader Beware!
My other beef with SOTW is that each chapter in all the books is presented in this somewhat non-effusive, just-the-facts-m'am-kind of voice...definitely interesting subject matter, but presented in a tone that suggests that each epoch, each person described and each historical event---no matter HOW seminal (or obscure)---bears equal historical weight. I somehow just can't cotton to the idea that Michelangelo and the salt trade of Ghana---or whatever, pick your topics at will---are equally important to the development of the world. The one exception to this sort of flat-liner narrative occurs with her effusive coverage of Queen Elizabeth I. She clearly LOVES Elizabeth I. (She just forgets to mention things like St. Margaret Clitherow being pressed to death, pregnant, by Elizabeth's agents, or the grisley deaths of the English priests at the hands of Elizabeth's personally designated spy-master, William Cecil, the Priest Hunter. Details, detail...)
All that being said, my children have really enjoyed the tapes, especially of Book I (we skipped over the tapes of the "offending" chapters in Book II). They are not twaddle and may well spark a real interest in history in your young children. Despite my ranting and raving  *I* have enjoyed the books,too, except for the time periods described. I would just be prepared to supplement once you get to Book II and Book III.
Kelly in FL (still mad about SOTW beating-up Charles V)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: July 08 2005 at 7:52am | IP Logged
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Tina, we have not seen the series, but there are some comments on this thread.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: July 08 2005 at 7:54am | IP Logged
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Thank you so much Kelly. I have a friend who's really enthusiastic about it & I'm not educated enough myself to give her the Catholic perspective on it. I prefer to call "ranting & raving" more of an "honest assessment" which is greatly appreciated!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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JSchaaf
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| Posted: July 08 2005 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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We are about to start SOTW 1 and Activity guide (since it's already on my shelf) but for next year I'm going to find something a little more Catholic-not just in content but from a Catholic publisher. I like the idea of a 4 yr history cycle like The Well Trained Mind suggests. Any ideas on a Catholic version?
Jennifer
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Bookswithtea
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Dear Kellie,
I just wanted to say thanks for such a thorough review of book III. We used vol I with a lot of success last year. I completely agree with your assessment of vol II. We are using it in bits and pieces in conjunction with Old World and America next year, to create our spine. I've been debating about whether or not to buy vol III. I know less about this historical period.
You've made my decision very easy. Thanks again!
Bookswithtea
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Marybeth
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Kelly,
You should write a history book with a Catholic flavor. We need history presented accurately. I loved studying history in my Catholic grammar school but detested it in my public high school. ugh!! They had nothing good to say about the church but loved all the Supreme Court decisions especially Roe vs. Wade. I have to say my outspoken and rather blunt point of view got me into trouble quite often. Oh, those liberal public schools how they love feminists!!
Sorry to rant...I enjoy the study of history when it is just and truthful.
You did a wonderful review of the SOTW books.
Marybeth
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Mare
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| Posted: July 09 2005 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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I haven't used this myself but I thought this might be of interest to everyone.
http://www.rchistory.com/cwh_intro.htm
Peace,
Mare
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Tina P.
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| Posted: July 20 2005 at 2:57am | IP Logged
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Thank you, everyone who responded, for all of the information. I'm going to shelve this study for a little while until I figure out how to go about bringing it to my children without too strong a bias.
Tina ~ wife to Gus and mother to seven earth-bound blessings and one in heaven
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TracyQ
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"Christ cannot be kept out of the history of man in any part of the globe, at any longitude or latitude. . . .
The exclusion of Christ from the history of man is an act against man! Without Christ it is impossible to understand [history]."
+ Pope John Paul II +
Wow! I LOVE the quote at the top of this website! I'm going to use it for the kids in their History Notebooks! FANTASTIC!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: Oct 20 2005 at 11:39am | IP Logged
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Hi Kelly,
Have you (or anyone else) read to or listened to Volume IV? One of my friends said it gave her an incredible perspective of history in modern times. What do you think? Is there anything else out there that might teach us history in modern times from a Catholic perspective?
Thx!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Kelly
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| Posted: Oct 21 2005 at 7:11am | IP Logged
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No, not yet. Guess I'm still licking my emotional wounds from SOTW's ill-treatment of Charles V and Philip II. I will check it out, though. I didn't even know Vol. IV had been released.
Kelly in FL
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Willa
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I just bought SOTW vol IV. I wasn't interested in the other ones because there are so many good ancient and middle ages books out there already. But there's nothing much about the 20th century for that age group. I haven't read it yet but it does look better than I expected when I first heard about the series, well written and not twaddly.
Story of the World
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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BrendaPeter
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Thanks so much Willa. I would love to know what you think. I can't say enough about the 1st 2 cd sets - my kids are rivetted! I agree with Kelly about the "just the facts m'am voice (especially on the cd) but it doesn't seem to phase my kids.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Oct 22 2005 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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Yoohoo Kelly...
What could I read to learn another perspective on the time periods covered in the early part of SOTW III? I felt comfortable using SOTW II because I knew enough to correct the biases (or just skip the chapter and fill in myself) but I don't even know where to begin, past the Reformation period.
~Books
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Kelly
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| Posted: Oct 25 2005 at 12:04am | IP Logged
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Darn it, my SOTW III is in South Florida and I'm here in North Florida evading storms, so it's difficult to recall all that SOTW III covers. Taking a stab at it, though...Are you looking for books for yourself? I found the book, "Philip II" by Walsh to be really detailed and interesting, lots on the "reformation" era, wars in France, Hugenots, Elizabethan England and beyond, but it's a vast tome. A shorter, livlier text might be Crocker's "Triumph", though I don't know how scholarly it is. Still, it covers a lot of the main stuff, goes all the way to the modern era and is very readable, and very Catholic.
I also LOVE the Anne Carrol cd collection that includes lectures on the French Revolution, Martin Luther, the "Reformation",and the Inquisition, among other things. She also has a good cd on the establishment of Maryland and Catholics in colonial America. You can get those from the Seton High School website, I believe. My kids really like these, as do I. Great stories, well told.
My brain is currently stuck in the colonial groove, I just can't seem to get beyond the mid-1700s to 1776, so I'm not much help, I'm afraid .
Kelly in mob hat and petticoats, in FL
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Bookswithtea
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Kelly wrote:
A shorter, livlier text might be Crocker's "Triumph", though I don't know how scholarly it is. Still, it covers a lot of the main stuff, goes all the way to the modern era and is very readable, and very Catholic.
I also LOVE the Anne Carrol cd collection that includes lectures on the French Revolution, Martin Luther, the "Reformation",and the Inquisition, among other things. She also has a good cd on the establishment of Maryland and Catholics in colonial America. You can get those from the Seton High School website, I believe. My kids really like these, as do I. Great stories, well told.
My brain is currently stuck in the colonial groove, I just can't seem to get beyond the mid-1700s to 1776, so I'm not much help, I'm afraid .
Kelly in mob hat and petticoats, in FL |
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No, that really helps a lot! I have the Crocker book. I read it the year after we finished RCIA. We came into the Church as the scandals were erupting and I needed to hear something *good* about the Catholic Church. I could definitely pull that out for myself as a refresher course.
I didn't know about the Anne Carrol CD's. A couple of questions about those...what age group are they for? I'm working with a 6th/7th grade. Should I get them now or wait to use them for high school? Also, do the CD's have the same problems that her books do (I've been following threads about citation and bias issues with her books)?
We've been using SOTW and OWA and anything else I have on my shelves to balance things out in SL's core 6. The literature is just *great* in this year, imho, and I do like SOTW, but I am frustrated by her biases and disappointed, especially because vol I was just fantastic.
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Kelly
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| Posted: Nov 02 2005 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
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Oops, I just saw this post, Books.
In answer to your question about the Anne Carroll CDs, they were originally recorded for highschoolers. However, all my children, even the first and third graders, as well as my 5th, 7th and 9th graders, have listened to them repeatedly and liked them. Obviously, the older children will get more from the lectures, but they are very interesting. As for bias, they are indeed unabashedly Catholic, and probably the same biases emerge as one would find in her books. But given that so much that one finds in history books is either anti-Catholic, or skips the Catholic Church altogether, I think her cds do provide balance. She certainly tells a thumping good tale, and that's what makes history interesting!
Kelly in FL
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JennGM
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Kelly wrote:
Oops, I just saw this post, Books.
In answer to your question about the Anne Carroll CDs, they were originally recorded for highschoolers. |
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Small correction: the World Culture series were recorded for junior high...so 7, 8, 9th grades. My family attended Seton School in Manassas and were in some of these classes...plus her other religion and history classes. They have made quite an impression on all my siblings. Mrs. Carroll makes history come alive, and like Kelly says, these little series can be used to practice taking notes....The mother that coordinated recording these classes had that aim in mind. She was homeschooling and wanted her children to benefit from the great classroom lectures and learn to take notes!
Seton Store.
The choir cd is good, too...although I might be biased. My mother was the director and my siblings sang in the choir. 
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Kelly
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Jenn,
Thanks for the correction, guess I didn't know there was middle school at Seton School in Manassas. I think I spoke with that mom you mentioned who orchestrated the recordings, does she have 9 or 10 children? Very nice, if so.
I'll check out the cd!
Kelly in FL
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: Susan Wise Bauer's Story of the World?
