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sarahb
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Im thrilled to say my 9 and 12 yo are producing a piece a week using IEW. Their word choices are improving, their creativity flowing (I allow them to change characters and setting if they like) and all in all they are grasping the skill of writing for the first time.
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Erin
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Mary Chris wrote:
That bundle includes ...the Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation.
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Does anyone have any opinions/experience with this book?
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ALmom
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I'm back to investigating what to do about writing - not with my highschooler whom I was worried about before. The EES seems to be working for him.
I'm pondering what to do with my 7th grader. He is my houdini when it comes to literature (reading or writing). I spoke to Kolbe to get some ideas (they kindly spent some time with me though he is not enrolled with them this year). The summary of what they told me :
The best way to learn to write is to have an awesome writing coach. That is harder to implement in terms of really finding someone.
Her next top recommendation was Circe Institute (anyone hear of this or used it. Is it difficult to use?)
She mentioned a few things that she really didn't care for herself - though they did cover the basics. It seems most out there is formulaic - which may be ok, but just doesn't seem to hack it for this child. He did great getting past the total block of writing using IEW - but now the formulaic stuff seems to mostly limit him to imitating poorly done originals. I honestly don't think he is getting the point of writing. He is so totally science brained, that he tends to see things all as lists of facts/ hypothesis to be tested. He is primarily a kinesthetic learner - but the other main component to his learning style is visual. My guess is that he needs to see really awesomely done models of what it is he is supposed to be doing and he needs a sense of why you would write in an elegant style in the first place. I think he doesn't get the purpose for writing (like you would have anything to say beyond stating facts). The workbooks are not going to work - the models are awful. He even recognized that one example in the text that he was modeling rather well - complete with totally boring style, string of examples without much of a point to the paragraph (this was supposed to illustrate a paragraph of examples used to explain/illustrate something complicated) - did not have any conclusion, it was just a list of examples.
My other problem is that I have a horrible time holding this child accountable. Seton was great in that - he has plans, he has a job to do, he doesn't get credit until the papers are all done, and he does all the uploading, etc. Also I like that someone besides mom jumps on him if he is careless and just doesn't bother to revise/edit or and mom can just let the natural consequences take effect.... The part I miss, is that I don't know what kind of guidance he is getting. I'm trying to teach him the how, let him practice on the Seton assignments and then help him improve. I don't think this is serving us any longer - got us to the point of writing regularly which is a help.
Some major things I see:
He will always need to be strictly accountable for literature reading and writing or he will avoid it. If he had his way, he would be doing science, projects and experiments from morning to night - interspersed wtih science reading so he could come up with new facts he wanted to test. He loves to draw, observe nature, build submarines that have ballasts that really work, make things go boom, collect and identify any and all things (not terribly organized about the process, but he does know what he is about), he will identify animal tracks and scat in the woods, build a dam in 3 different ways to see which one is really most efficient (the one imitating the beaver's dam building was the best according to him)
I would love him to see models of elegant science writing (but appropriate for a 7th grader). Any ideas or suggestions welcome.
At one point I was going to let him write a science text for me to use from K - 8th, and even help him market it to homeschoolers - but he just isn't organized enough to follow through. If he'd really jumped into that, I'd have counted it as writing. He seemed excited - but got too sidetracked doing all the experiments he had in mind that he never got around to writing anything down. 
I need some great literature (but not anything too far beyond a little boys experience) that would entice him to read more literature. He is in real need of simply doing a lot of good, solid reading (not factual based as he does plenty of that - but something that makes you notice hints, foreshadowing, symbol, feelings - that the writer is saying more than the obvious story line. I've got to get him to read something besides science! Seton reading we did more as a quick stop gap measure to practice a little reading between the lines and I think it has served that purpose. We are thoroughly sick of readers and reading comp workbooks now after half a year. I want real literature and some ideas on how to discuss it without it seeming like a long drawn out torture session with mom.
I have to have something that doesn't take me months to figure out how to use, understands that I am not a confident teacher or grader of writing and knows that I will need lots of help myself in picking the topic, narrowing, etc. My children are way more creative than I - but their creativity (not the science boys anyways) doesn't come out at all in their writing. I don't want to have to be the creative genuius that decides what books we are going to tackle. I'd like a list already layed out for me - of course I sure hope it is something this kid will actually enjoy reading because he picks up on the deeper meaning - or at least some of it.
I am most interested in how to write whatever it is you want to write but first focus must be the essay writing in content area. If they can write and become comfortable with writing - then we'll worry about branching out into story telling or poetry writing (doubt that will happen with this guy though he doesn't have trouble memorizing poetry). Right now I want competent writing - but writing which is elegant and interesting even if it is on the most boring subject in the world  - which for this guy is anything that isn't science.
I am floundering. Please help guys - I need some ideas.
Janet
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CrunchyMom
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Janet, I don't have experience in teaching 7th grade writing, but as it seems you know from what you have written, reading good writing is key to writing well.
I can't offer suggestions for a writing program, but the first thing that came to mind for appreciating a good essay is G.K. Chesterton. Many of his non-fiction books are really collections of essays that can be read individually.
Also, Father Brown mysteries are a lot of fun to read and good exposure to good literature in short story form. Perhaps short stories would be a good place to focus--some Kipling would be good young boy fare but in bites. Then you could work your way up to thicker novels.
Have you seen the Literature Guides from Hillside Education? Lingua Mater might even be a complete program like what you are looking for?
Also, maybe since you already know it is difficult to motivate your son, you could find titles that you think might entice him and then seek the resources to help you discuss those particular titles. Cliffs Notes often have very good discussion and essay questions which would help you teach the book in the way you desire.
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Erin
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On the topic of motivating, I have finally found the key for my reluctant learner. If he completes all his assigned work for a fortnight I buy him a new book. It's working!!
Janet
A thought that came to my mind whilst reading your post; how would it work if he was to read living style science books to study style. Then have him write science material in a living book style?
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ALmom
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Erin, I love the idea of living style science books as I know that would be a certain hit. I have several of Fabre's books and looking at his style - it is quite elegant. What other science authors would be good - see this is my problem, I know nothing about science.
I still need him to read literature because he is so science brain wired that he really doesn't get that a story has a meaning beyond the story line - those hidden things of the heart. I have to awaken that at some level. Now, I'm not saying I plan to make a literature professor out of him - not going to happen. He is definitely wired as an engineer - it screams from everything he does. Still there is a different way to read literature than to read non-fiction so while reading science which is elegantly written will be great for stirring the writing, it will not address the difficulty with actually reading literature.
He liked Swiss Family Robinson - other than that he has told me that all the stories we read from Hillside were boring. He also thought that Adam of the Road was boring. He is reading some lives of saints at the moment - but again these are a little less elegant in style. He liked one of the Catholic National Readers ok because of the science - but then it was all old science and a bit funny when they were wowing about the new development of electricity. Of all the readers I've seen, this one has the most elegant writing style, but I'd like to just read the actual works in their entirety, personally. I might be able to get him to like something full of action and I'm pulling out the Father Brown stories for sure.
Janet
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Kristie 4
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Janet, a little off topic, but was the Circe book that was suggested The Lost Tools of Writing?
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ALmom
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Kristie - not off topic at all - yes that is exactly it and it looked really good and easy to use when I looked at it on-line. It is produced by the Circe Institute. I was hoping someone here had used it to give me plusses and minusses before we fork out the money as it is pretty expensive - but looks like it can be used with multiple ages and no re-ordering of a bunch of workbooks. It looks sort of along the line of Pudewa but feels less formulaic to me and more appropriate for older children and a lot more organized support for an ignorant teacher  .
Janet
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Kristie 4
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Cindy at dominionfamily.blogspot.com is doing an apprenticeship with Circe right now and has done some blogging about the Lost Tools- you might want to check it out.
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Mary Fifer
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I am so happy to have found this thread and have spent over an hour reading the whole list! I did not go to the links for fear of not being able to get back here, but I will go back to them later.
We have the opportunity to go to an IEW weekend in Manhattan, Ks in Dec so I am going to go to the less expensive events and take my older children as well.
So far, we have really benefitted from the WRTR (Writing Road To Reading) for my son who couldn't retain more than 3 phonograms till he was nearly eight! "Yes, Phonics" had a DVD of the Phonograms that was a giant help to me since he could watch it on his own and we wouldn't have the trouble of mixing the wrong phonogram card with the wrong sound as with audio CDs and separate flash cards.
Barbara Beers' Phonics Road to English Grammar was a God-send for teaching me how to teach my children the WRTR way, plus grammar, plus composition. I got smart and had the older children simply look at the DVDs for the teacher and that really helped. We took the short cut of having one of our middle ones simply take her dictation from the DVD which worked great for me! It was almost as good as having Dr. Shormann teach Saxon for me on his DIVEs (he's taught most of ours 5/4 through Alg II plus Apologia Chemistry).
I am interested in IEW simply because I did have a talented professor in College who taught EVERYTHING we should have learned in high school in two weeks!!! He was frustrated with us but realized that he would get nowhere unless he taught us the basics first. Wow! I think that from that experience I do have confidence that there's no need to wear one's self thin on drills ad infinitum. The Grammars of one hundred years ago were tiny and some of this nation's greatest writers had used them. I look forward to the videos teaching both myself and my children, even the ones who are finished with school!
I had not ever heard of Bravewriter, but if it adds to IEWs reported structure we might eventually own it, too. Money is always short for our voracious book desires (so many great ones availble compared to 20 years ago!) but we look at it not only from the cost per child, but also from the perspective of having used these things and sorted out the best ones for any future grandchildren!
The best advice I've read in these 22 years came from a 1918 book written by an ex-superintendant of schools who had been a teacher for years, too. He said that he did not recommend the new spelling list books. He said to let the children write and then let the words that they misspelled (sp?) be their spelling "list". He had great ideas about not wasting time on words they already knew or words that they learned easily.
This fit right in with our understanding of the Robinson idea so we quit what one daughter called "wham-wham-hope-you-know-it" lists.
For those looking for copybooks, both Seton and Our Lady of Victory School have handwriting copybooks that cover aspects of history, or the 50 States, etc.
Me? I've moved to teaching (as a real effort, by the way, to be sure to convey new meaning especially when all of us would rather do something else) the suffixes and prefixes as added to base words. This way we cover phonics, spelling rules, and vocabulary. I start this when our children know most of the first 54 phonograms. They love the explanation (sometimes) because once they get the idea they can begin to guess what long words mean just by their syllables.
I use a whiteboard for about an hour a day. (A dear friend figured to use a $25 piece of melamine coated masonite - as used in cheap bathrooms - 4' x 8' available at Home Depot and Lowes type lumber stores.) I leave the prefixes that we come across on the left and the suffixes on the right so that as the year goes all I have to do is to point to what I am talking about. This also helps with some grammar since many words become a different part of speech by adding prefixes and suffixes.
Thanks for the info on IEW and Bravewriter because I need the info now, and 'hope that the spelling info will be helpful in return!
Mary
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Mackfam
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Mary Fifer wrote:
| Thanks for the info on IEW and Bravewriter because I need the info now, and 'hope that the spelling info will be helpful in return! |
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Mary,
I'm so glad the Bravewriter and IEW info was helpful and I'm so glad you shared!!!! It is indeed helpful!
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Mary Fifer
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I am so glad it was a help. I have learned so many shortcuts in the last 22 years that I'd like to be able to spare the trouble for others when I can. I so dearly appreciate those who have taken the time to think through and relate well what they have found that I am happy when I can reciprocate in a small way.
I might come back here in December to relate what I found at the IEW weekend.
Mary
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:50pm | IP Logged
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Mary Fifer wrote:
I might come back here in December to relate what I found at the IEW weekend. |
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Please do, Mary!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Erin
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Mary
I've started a thread here to discuss your ideas regards suffixes etc. I didn't want to hi-jack the writing thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Martha
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Tracy - I am just popping in to say I really appreciated your suggestion of Write with the Best. It's a great, simple, straight-forward program - perfect for several of my boys. And it's very affordable. 
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Kristie 4
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What age are you using it with Martha? (I own it but we haven't, ummm, used it yet much!).
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Kristie in Canada
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Martha
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Two boys ages 13/14 and 11/12.
Getting ready to use if with next ds 10/11.
For the two younger boys, I also use intermediate language lessons and Kolbe elementary literature plans.
For older boy I just use the kolbe jr high lit plans with it.
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Martha
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Kristie 4
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Thanks Martha. I better dig it up...
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MarilynW
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Just wanted to come back after a year of IEW and say how much we LOVE it. I was so daunted for several years - and I regret that we did not get started sooner. My boys have really taken to writing and look forward to it. My daughter who is a natural writer and writes constantly for fun, has asked to switch programs and has chosen her IEW materials for next year. In fact we will be using IEW materials across our curriculum next year.
An added bonus - I have found that I have really improved MY writing - I constantly think about my writing style.
It is not easy - in that you cannot simply give a child a workbook - and it does involve parental time and energy - but the video classes really are a help.
The materials are not cheap - but are "nutritionally dense" - and way cheaper than sending children to expensive writing classes.
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Mary Fifer
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Thanks for posting this!
I am so glad to hear of your success with IEW because it certainly has us intrigued.
Mary
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Can we talk writing programs again?!!
