| Author | |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 4:09pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Dh and I were having a discussion this morning. We've all heard the parenting advice of "you should say yes to your kids as much as possible." Just how Catholic is this? Is this wise advice - do any of you live by it with good results?
We have one (older) child in particular who all day peppers us with "Can I do this?" or "Can I have this?" or "Can we do things *this* way?" type of questions. Maybe I'm just a super control freak, but I rarely say yes to her. Her ideas are just "left of center" enough that they just aren't good for the family as a whole. When I *do* say yes more often I feel steamrolled out of my MomAuthority because of how persistent she always is. Honestly, her sisters feel the same way - during play she always seems to manage to bring things back to "her way" no matter what anyone else wants. Add in 2 "average kids" and a toddler who thinks FUN is spelled "lets destroy the house" still and I am saying NO all day long!
Anyone else feel like the constant requests of their kids derails their already laid plans for a day? (every day? LOL) I do know about reframing their questions so that I *can* say yes of a sorts, but that only seems to go so far here (like my oldest can see right through that - she wants EXACTLY what she asked for when she asked for it, anything else is a no to be sulked over -same with the toddler).
The only thing I can think of is to have a million and one rules in the house so it's not ME saying no - it's just a rule. "No chewing gum except after meals and only when your sisters who will want some but are too young can't see you do it" and "only take the couch cushions off once a day and surely do NOT pile them all up to jump off of" and "your sister can only sleep in your room when mommy has had 4 nights of good sleep in a row"  That seems just as bad as the constant NO's I need to say to our persistant "creative thinker."
Dh and I joke about it feeling like being pecked to death by baby ducks. Only a 9yo pecks much harder.  
Just so you know, I *do* let my children do a lot that other parents don't, but the asking for "just one more thing" never seems to end here.
So my questions: Is it good Catholic parenting to say yes as much as possible? How to rein in the child that seems to always want/need MORE than you are willing to give without breaking their spirit? Anyone else being pecked to death?
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SeaStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9068
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yes- I was being pecked TO DEATH by my 4.5 yo ds. He is going to grow up to be some kind of fantastic salesman, I'm sure, because the word "no" rolls right off him.
In the 1-2-3 Magic book, pecking is identified as "badgering". Badgering mom or dad is a behavior that is definitely OK to stop. If my son asks for something and I tell him no, and then he persists and starts to badger me, I count him. I tell him, "Mom says no. If you keep bugging me I will count you." This system works very well for us. Trying to explain why I was saying no... that never seemed to work. I do try to stop and think before I automatically say no, but- you know how it is. Some days you feel like you can't even have your own brain to yourself to think with!
__________________
Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Courtney
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 796
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 5:25pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have a 9yr old dd that likes to push the limits a little.  If she asks for 1 cookie and I say yes, then she'll say "How about 2?"
I don't believe always saying yes works in the long run. I do know that I can get caught in the trap of saying "no" just b/c it may be inconvenient for me. Last week, dd and ds were in the kitchen and asked if they could bake something. Dd has made things like cookies and muffins before, so I asked what she planned to make. She said, "I'm not sure. We just want to experiment." I had to bite my tongue to not say no. However, I said yes with conditions. "Yes, IF you both clean up the counter, and vaccuum up any messes." They agreed and actually had an interesting baking experiment! Dd learned that you really need to follow a recipe when baking!
There are certain rules we've had since time began in our house, like no food outside the kitchen. Just recently my dd has asked to take a drink or eat something in the family room. There is definitely a time and place for "rules" to be broken, but I also think my dd is at stage of testing the limits.
I have a neighbor who's method of parenting is that everything has a choice. I really like my neighbor, but her dd has a difficult time playing at houses other than her own b/c others do have more rules. So, I don't know if saying yes all the time is Catholic or not, but I know it wouldn't work in our house. One more interesting point a friend once made: in order for kids to be ok saying no to someone else, they have to hear it as well!
__________________
Courtney in Texas
Wife to Mike since 3/94 
Mom to Candace 10/97 ,Christopher 4/00 and Connor 11/11
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
| So my questions: Is it good Catholic parenting to say yes as much as possible? How to rein in the child that seems to always want/need MORE than you are willing to give without breaking their spirit? Anyone else being pecked to death? |
|
|
Hmmm, I don't know the Catholic view on this. It will be interesting to read some informed opinions about that side of it.
I do have a "no" problem with one child, but it has to do with personality. I always struggle with this one so I find myself saying "no" to many things that I would say "yes" without thinking to other kids.  Also, I find that sometimes more rules are necessary, but too many makes to much to remember and you have to be willing to enforce them. 
One thing to consider is are you saying "no" to something appropriate to an older child so you don't have to say no to the younger ones? (The gum thing made me think about this.) We've recently started letting some older children use tools. It's a pain to say "no" to the younger guys and police them, but it's not really fair to the older guys to say "no" when "yes" is more appropriate.
Maybe taking a sec to figure out why you want to say "no" will help bring about more "yes"es. It's helped me some but I need to do better. Hopefully something there to help!
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary Chris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2175
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 6:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
We have one (older) child in particular who all day peppers us with "Can I do this?" or "Can I have this?" or "Can we do things *this* way?" type of questions. |
|
|
I have a child like this also. One day in frustration I told said child all questions must be written down in advance and there is a 20 question limit.
No real help but I do feel your pain!
__________________
Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 6:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I tend to say yes more than no - my dh and I have talked about this and we think its just my personality. He says no more than yes, so I guess we balance out!
I have found that more yeses mean fewer requests in the long run- kids just feel more comfortable and have less need to ask, perhaps?
St John Bosco and St Philip Neri always took a positive approach with the children in their care - so perhaps the saying yes more often, especially over little things, is okay for we Catholics? I tend to save my nos and long discussions for big issues, iykwim?
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
PDyer
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 25 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1043
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 6:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have one that pecks me to death. I say yes when I can, and I say no when I must. I do try to say yes as much as possible because my tendency is to default to no. In doing so I sometimes need to say 'yes, later..." which unfortunately leads to worrying/checking in/badgering. Our badgering isn't so much defying the 'no' (I think we've gotten mostly past that...). I think now the badgering is about making sure the 'yes' is going to happen really, really soon. Sometimes I just can't move fast enough to please.
So, I'm trying to walk a line between saying yes as much as possible, but also not placing my little duck in a place where it's hard to *not peck peck peck. If that makes any sense.
__________________
Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
Life at Home
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 6:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Courtney wrote:
| I do know that I can get caught in the trap of saying "no" just b/c it may be inconvenient for me. |
|
|
You bring up a point we were discussing this morning - these past 9 months have seem me "out for the count" a lot with pregnancy sickness, exhaustion, premature contractions, etc. EVERYTHING extra/different seems inconvenient to me! Then there is just the needs of other littles or the general need for me to be "omnipresent" in a growing family. Child #1 may simply ask to have tea time one day but it is more than I can muster up the energy for, and she needs to be watched and directed carefully if she is going to do it (impulsive). I have to be there, and I "wasn't planning on it" - someone or something else needs my attention. It's this kind of stuff that happens all day long.
I feel like I must order things a certain way for us to survive well, and one child always wanting "something else" messes with my mind, lol! Do you who are moms of many (without teens to help "watch") find you must organize and say no to such children or have you figured out a way around this?
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
kathleenmom
Forum Pro
Joined: March 09 2005
Location: South Carolina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 348
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2007 at 10:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, once again Amy...I think we were separated at birth. I wish I had something to offer you other than commiseration. I have 2 children who peck me to death with many spur of the moment, capricious "wants". It messes with my head as well.
Many a day after the house is quiet I feel like such a Grinch and wonder why I just couldn't give a little more of myself and find a way to have more "yeses". Next day, all of the noise, chaos, responsibilities and my own craving for quiet and peace start me over on the same path again. More head messing and more guilt. Sigh.
I'm sending up an Ave for you. Please send one up for me too. I hope someone has some sage advice.
God bless,
Kathleen
__________________
DH Daniel, Sophia Brigid (97), Russell Powers (99), Honoria Jane (02), John Patrick (05), Brigid Mary Feb. 24, 2007!
AMDG Academy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 8:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Quote:
| Do you who are moms of many (without teens to help "watch") find you must organize and say no to such children or have you figured out a way around this? |
|
|
I think there's 2 seperate issues here:
1. Is being pecked to death. To me, that has nothing to do with how often or how not you say yes to anything. I'd be pretty harsh on it. "We are doing this right now, and if you nag me about anything else again while we do it - I promise the answer will be no." However, once we're done, I'll be more likely to say yes to reasonable requests. Something I've said no to for the past 8 years is NOT a reasonable request.
2. I do think that with many children organizing becomes a natural requirement. You just can't get through the day without lots of unneccessary stress otherwise. But for me, that makes it easier to say yes, not harder. Most of the time. Once the kids catch on to the routine of things, they should know this is fun time when I can try something new, and this is blank time when other matters are being dealt with.
Basicly, I only get pecked to death during "down" time.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 9:39am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Quote:
| Do you who are moms of many (without teens to help "watch") find you must organize and say no to such children or have you figured out a way around this? |
|
|
I'd say this:
Martha wrote:
| I do think that with many children organizing becomes a natural requirement. You just can't get through the day without lots of unneccessary stress otherwise. But for me, that makes it easier to say yes, not harder. Most of the time. Once the kids catch on to the routine of things, they should know this is fun time when I can try something new, and this is blank time when other matters are being dealt with. |
|
|
And also I have to be willing to die to self more than I am. I have to learn to live with a little more mess than I'd like (or be willing to be getting sick into the sink as I clean up the tea party. Honestly, I'm going to be sick anyway, so why do I try to avoid it?  ) or let them take more risks than I am comfortable with. So far it's worked out without any trips to the ER....
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 10:18am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Rachel May wrote:
And also I have to be willing to die to self more than I am. |
|
|
Ain't that the truth?!
A rather painful truth too! 
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
amyable
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3798
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 10:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Martha wrote:
Rachel May wrote:
And also I have to be willing to die to self more than I am. |
|
|
Ain't that the truth?!
A rather painful truth too! |
|
|
While I definitely know this is true for me, at least with my "worst offender" in the "questioning/requesting" department, I worry that by my dying to self with her requests all the time, I will NOT be teaching her to die to self herself but instead will be teaching her to walk all over people. She already has a very hard time seeing others needs/wants. If I'm always changing what *I* wanted to do to follow *her* lead, I feel like I'm feeding into that "bossy" nature of hers, and also loosing my "place" as runner of the household/family.
I don't know, maybe I'm just reading too much into this...
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
PDyer
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 25 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1043
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 10:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
at least with my "worst offender" in the "questioning/requesting" department, I worry that by my dying to self with her requests all the time, I will NOT be teaching her to die to self herself but instead will be teaching her to walk all over people. She already has a very hard time seeing others needs/wants. If I'm always changing what *I* wanted to do to follow *her* lead, I feel like I'm feeding into that "bossy" nature of hers, and also loosing my "place" as runner of the household/family.
I don't know, maybe I'm just reading too much into this... |
|
|
I have the very same concerns, Amy. Don't know me if saying it is helpful or not...
__________________
Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
Life at Home
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 11:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
I worry that by my dying to self with her requests all the time, I will NOT be teaching her to die to self herself but instead will be teaching her to walk all over people. She already has a very hard time seeing others needs/wants.
I don't know, maybe I'm just reading too much into this... |
|
|
NO, I don't think you are. And it's that need to have to be constantly keeping that in mind that I have to die to self to deal with. It'd be easier to just say "yes" and toss my plans. (You know, I really didn't want to do those dishes anyways!)
I think it's about balance and that's where you are struggling?
I completely agree with you that saying yes shouldn't be their opportunity to run rough shod over others.
That's why I'd be pretty harsh about the "pecking to death." Persistance is one thing, just being a pain until they get what they want at the expense of common curtesy to others is another. Esp when it's family!
As a side note, I think this also makes the kids more appreciative.
It's a sad fact children who are always told yes often don't appreicate it.
Just as children who are always told no, eventually learn it's better to ask forgivenness than permission. There's got to be some balance in there?
I want my kids to always be willing to ask me things and to try new things. I just don't want them to peck me to death with constantly asking!
Maybe you could lay down some basic rules like:
No asking more than once or it will get an automatic NO.
Respect the schedule. If we are doing chores - that's not the time to ask to go ride your bike!
Respect others before self. If mom is puking sick, maybe that's not the best time to be thinking about what they want, but rather what dear mom needs. Or siblings are working on their reading aloud, that's not the best time to play drums.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Anne McD
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 21 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 499
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 11:41am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've got the same situation here, too, Amy. I'm thinking of having my name legally changed to "But Mommy" b/c I hear that a whole lot around here! Here are my thoughts:
--I'm trying to say yes more, esp to ds6, b/c I almost always say no. I was watching Dr. Phil once and a mother was asking about this very thing. She felt bad b/c she was always saying no to her child, and he pointed out to her that in her case, she was saying no b/c it inconvieniced her, not because there was a legitimate reason to say no. That brings me to my second thought:
-- am I saying no b/c we can't/don't have the time/isn't good for him or family, or because I just don't want to? Usually, its the latter. That's not to say that I've been saying yes willy nilly, but I'm trying to take a good look at the situation and ask myself "why not?" before I automatically say no. And that brings me to . . .
-- maybe. This buys me a couple of minutes while I actually consider the request, instead of brushing it off. However, if they keep badgering me, then its an automatic no. My husband and I will tell them that we'll think about it for a minute, and then let them know, but they can't keep henpecking us about it.
-- Finally, no means no when we do say no. Once we let them talk us into something, they do it every time and remind us of the time we changed our mind and why we should do it again. Sigh.
This is just how things are going here. Is it working really well? Ummm . . . But maybe there's something of worth that could help. Good luck!!
__________________
Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
organiclilac
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 30 2006
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 640
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
For situations that lend themselves to this, I give a qualified "yes":
"Yes, you can do xyz, but you are responsible for setting it up and cleaning it ALL up before dinnertime. If this does not happen, then you will not be able to do it again for 2 weeks."
Or, if it is something that ds really cannot do all by himself:
"Yes, but since I will have to help you with this, I will not have as much time to get these clothes folded. You will have to do that right after dinner."
Then I make it ds's choice - is he willing to take on the responsibility? He usually makes a good choice (which is sometimes yes, sometimes no), and we've both discovered several new things that he can do all by himself. I like to make the decision his whenever possible, so it's not me saying no.
__________________
Tracy, wife to Shawn, mama to Samuel (4/01) and Joseph (11/11), and Thomas (2/15)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
hylabrook1
Forum Moderator
Joined: July 09 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5980
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 1:37pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I know this sounds like the opposite of being spontaneous, but what about scheduling a couple of hours one afternoon a week in which you do crafts, baking, tea party, whatever has been on someone's mind lately? Then when they ask, you can say, "That sounds like a great idea to consider for our Thursday afternoon." Maybe submit the ideas to a vote or find some other way of deciding what to do which Thursday, so that one child's ideas don't dominate. This is supposed to be a fun afternoon for everyone, not "Sister #1's Turn to Make All of Us Do What She Wants to Do." That kind of both allows some *control* for you as well as a *yes* for the girls.
Obviously, this doesn't apply to all situations, as I'm sure much of the asking to do things is more a question of what someone wants right that minute. (Around here it is often, "Can I have soda with my lunch? Why not?"). But maybe it could help with some of it?
Just thinking...
Peace,
Nancy
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cici
Forum Pro
Joined: March 03 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 334
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Adding on to what Nancy was saying...what if you made dd9 "in charge" of that Thursday afternoon? So, say X day of week is our Tea and craft day. DD9 what should we make? Enlist her aid in coralling in the youngers. Maybe have her assign tasks to each of the youngers. Maybe have her pay attention and rotate those tasks among the capable (letting her be bossy, but still having her work out letting others do thing sshe may want to/sharing/responsible leadership) from week to week.
I don't have many (I do have an almost 7 month old who won't let me put him down - that should count for something, right? )- but even my dd 5.5 is very "bossy" and is perfectly capable of cracking an egg and then handing it to her brother to "help" toss in the bowl (we crack eggs in a separate bowl around here - easier to fish out those shells ).
Also, my dd 5.5 is the "pusher". If I say she can have a cookie, and she asks for more (or something else) my response is: "okay - you have a choice. one cookie or nothing." Any "buts" are met with "So you're telling me you want nothing?" I think it only took one follow through lesson to get this. I do try (operative word here) to think through - two cookies is probably okay. So I may say - "Is there enough for everyone to have 2? Okay, you can have two. That's it though. Ask again and you get nothing."
Anddddd - after a particularly frustrating bouts of this pushing - I usually find that I'm not letting her (or even the three year old in some cases) do something else that is age appropriate. I find the pushing the limits tends to be, for me anyway, a call for me to re-evaluate where we are as far as age appropriate behavior.
Hmnn - I wanted to add. I'm a naturally bossy person and my mom has a lot of stories of me "convincing" other kids to play my way. The key was to harness that bossiness and mold it into a form of responsible leadership - heh! Whether she was successful with me is still out for a vote, but still... Maybe your dd9 can do X is she "gently, kindly" lets her one younger sister be involved? Letting her be "bossy" to a point. Letting the younger sisters "be in charge" of something else that the eldest in "bossing" over?
So, now that I typed all this out, I almost feel like I should delete it. Please take what I said with whatever grain of salt is needed. I always hesitate to post things like this, for fear of offending, and because I really know nothing else of your home life (except what I read on your blog)...I'll quit typing now and hit post.
__________________
Christine - mom to
My Sewing Blog
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2007 at 3:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
amyable wrote:
| I worry that by my dying to self with her requests all the time, I will NOT be teaching her to die to self herself but instead will be teaching her to walk all over people. |
|
|
I think that a lot depends on the individual child and the parent's knowledge of that child. A lot of our decisions with our children are based on our understanding of each child's needs, aren't they? I'd encourage you to continue to base your decisions on your understanding of your child, Amy. It sounds like you have a good insight into her nature. 
That said, I found that saying "yes" more, even when I had only young children, *did* create a more peaceful atmosphere in our home. I learned to always have a routine, but a flexible routine ( pegs) so changes could be made if warranted - "Yes, we can do crafts, tonight or tomorrow " or "Yes, you can have a cookie, perhaps not now but at tea time." As well as the less qualified all out "yeses"!
I have found that my children have learned to be less selfish and to die to self in the many times that I have had to say no, especially over big issues. They are also learning these qualities via our many discussions, especially after sharing books and movies and stories of the Saints; by example; by necessity within in a large family and by self denial throughout the liturgical year ( Advent and Lent penances, for example). So far, the older ones have grown to be young adults who do serve others.
I like the way this author describes different ways of saying "yes" - no, you may not agree with the whole article but these yes statements have been the way I tend to say yes.
<<<Yes can come in all sorts of forms:
“Yes, we can do that in 15 minutes when I’m done with this. If you’d like to help, I can be done even sooner.”
“Yes, you can buy that. Let’s think up ways you could save up or earn the money.”
“Yes, we can do that tomorrow morning because right now I’m about to drop from exhaustion.” >>>
Joyce F. on saying yes
I'll say a prayer for us all, as we work on this mothering vocation!
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Saying "yes" to kids regularly
