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mumsrea
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 11:41am | IP Logged
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Hi,
I'm just wanting some opinions on getting my 3rd grader to mobilize his will to focus and get the job done. I find it is a major source of conflict and of frustration for me. I am wondering about employing some kind of system which would remove me from having to be the one that keeps redirecting him and making him more responsible for the consequences of his failure to decide to focus.
I am not talking about excessively long 45 minute drills of boring math questions here. I am talking about the plain, ordinary 10 minute page of Explode the Code that leads to doodling, getting up to get water, asking about dog breeds, playing with the eraser, etc etc.
I would like some opinions on employing a timer system. I would decide how much time the job should take, and then set the timer for that amount of time. At the end of the time, the period for that subject is over and the remainder is now his to do during his free time. (Of course, if i were to see sustained effort and incomplete work i would add time, or abbreviate the assignment.
Even if it is not quite developmentally appropriate to expect sustained focus, i do expect that an 8.5 year old who is being sufficiently challenged should be able to do tasks without needing to be directed every two minutes. And of course the hovering and haranguing is ruining our homeschool environment. I HAVE to get myself out of the equation.
Please suggest, comment, critique.
MR
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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 MR. And I offer hugs b/c I have the same situation with my 10 yo DS and I know all too well the stress it causes. Have you always homeschooled exclusively? Has he always had difficulty focusing? Have you ever thought he might have ADD/ADHD? Sometimes it's not as apparent until the child gets in to higher level work (around 3rd grade) that it really becomes evident. We've seen symptoms in my son since pre-school and he did traditional school for 3 years and although we still don't have an "official" diagnosis, now that I've homeschooled for 1 1/2 years it's pretty evident my son def. has some ADD issues. We're still trying to work this all out and have looked at diet, reward systems etc. and are possibly on the path to some medication b/c it has started to severly impair our home. Some days are great and some days aren't so we'll see. That's just my experience for whatever it's worth.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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mumsrea
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
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Well i have thought of that, but you know, if he has a play date on the line we don't seem to have these issues.....
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 2:15pm | IP Logged
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Hi MR!
This is a great question, and something I face here as well - dawdling!!
YES!
Your son should be able to offer complete attention for a short amount of time. Here are the things that I have used with some success in order to cultivate the habit of attention, particularly in one of my children that is very prone to dawdling.
HABIT OF ATTENTION --
What you're essentially doing is building the habit of attention. When exercising a new muscle, you can't go out the first day and run the marathon...you have to build your stamina and strength. I have found that this works well in building habit muscles, too. Start at an easy workable point and provide tools needed to slowly stretch and build habit muscle memory.
SHORT LESSONS --
When first working on this habit, the habit of attention, I dropped lessons back to a crazy-short 5 minutes per lesson, and it definitely made my child take notice, but it served the purpose. The purpose was simply to offer the same good content and lovely ideas within a short amount of time and stop the lesson while the child was still intrigued by the idea so that the entire lesson the child offered full attention, and the next day there would be continued interest. I only did this for 3 days (just because I could tell it was time to start stretching - this could be different from family to family). After 3 days, and without announcing or making much ado, I stretched the lesson times to around 7ish minutes. Nothing exact you understand (I didn't hold a timer), we just stretched out a little bit longer. Eventually, and without my child noticing, we ended up with a comfortable 15 - 20 minute lesson time.
The only exception to the 5 minute short lesson I made was in an area I knew my child really enjoyed (a passion) and needed processing time before moving on. So for us that is a science area. While the lesson time was still kept short, I made sure to provide discussion/demonstration time so there was closure.
PRACTICALS --
How did I do this? Sometimes I chose to read aloud for a particular lesson and read aloud a very short amount. For math, I might only assign 5 problems for the day. If I'm only reading a short amount, or the child is only reading a short amount, it follows that the narrations will be proportionally short. Copywork - I set the timer - 5 minutes of your best work and that's it.
NOTICING DIFFICULTY DURING THE STRETCH --
If there was a time during this slow stretching-of-attention-habit-building process that my child began to struggle with offering full attention for whatever period of time we were working within, I would simply (and again, without any fanfare or announcement) go back to a shorter lesson and spend a little more time working with that stretch of time.
ALTERNATE SUBJECTS --
You might also try alternating one sit down-focused-attention subject with a more hands on interactive subject. Sometimes this is a help for my dawdling-prone child, and sometimes not. Generally, these more hands-involved lesson times are very appealing and it is then difficult to get this child to move forward. I've approached this in a couple of ways:
1) Allow these subjects to present themselves at a place in the day that they can be pursued at length or
2) remind in a neutral way that it is now time to put this subject away, but it can be revisited at the end of the day.
We have chosen to do the latter (#2) since this is also building time management habit muscle!! In order to help this child, I provide a physical place on the side of a table or desk for the "to-be-continued" material to wait. There was something upsetting about just putting it away and getting it out again, so we found that having a place for it to land that signified that the child was coming back to it after other lessons were complete was what worked best for us. (Over time) this helped my child learn the value of consequences of time management --> offering focused attention to short lessons leaves plenty of time for creative exploration after lessons.
KEYWORD PROMPTS --
This child is not free from dawdling-temptation!! Please understand that this is a child that really has to work at this - focused attention in areas that this child doesn't want to focus is very difficult!! So we worked out a keyword prompt. When I see this child is dawdling I prompt with a neutral - focus on the work in front of you - and that's the cue to re-focus.
************************************************************ **
At this point, my child enjoys and thrives on lesson plans with clear expectations. The lesson plans I write state clearly when to begin a particular subject and when to move on to the next. This child appreciates seeing a beginning and end time. I'm only offering that as a way of saying that this is where we ended up. These specified lesson plans are another tool that assists this child. For other children, time specific lesson plans would be like a straight-jacket and therefore not a useful tool for that child/family. Trying a variety of different tools out and observing their consequences helped me arrive at the one that helped us out the most.
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So, I wondered if it might be helpful to work through one of the specific examples you gave - like the Explode the Code lesson time?
** I'd probably start by not saying anything, but rather just observing my son work with Explode the Code for a couple of days - making notes:
? Are there a number of other distractions around him?
? Is this right before a needed snack time?
? Did he just watch or read something on >> ____insert interesting subject here...maybe dog breeds___ << and he hasn't had time to process, digest, talk about, narrate with you? So it all comes spilling out in the next lesson time?
? Has he already done other phonics work for the day?
? Is this lesson in any way redundant?
? Note how long he works BEFORE he begins to get distracted -- this is an important time.
** Then, noting how long my son usually works on Explode the Code before he starts asking questions/experiencing distraction, I'd let that time be my starting point. Let's say it's 3 minutes. Ok. Start with 3 minutes of Explode the Code.
** On the first day, I'd tell him how important it is to give his full attention to the lesson he is working on and do his best just for that short time. I'd let him know that he can ask questions when he's not working on a lesson (and remember to give your full attention to him when he asks those questions at the appropriate time). I might also say that I'm going to make lessons really short for a bit to help him give his attention to the lesson.
GOAL -- END THE LESSON BEFORE HE IS DISTRACTED!
** Then, start the short lesson. You are near (but not hovering).
-- Starts playing with pencil eraser --> redirect with...focus on your work. (neutral voice)
-- Asks to go to bathroom --> Yes, you may, right after this lesson is complete.
-- Asks for a drink --> Yes, you may get a drink, right after this lesson is complete.
** And then provide the wind-down time needed for water, bathroom, and important questions about dog breeds and move on to the next lesson. I find it works best for us if I provide specific boundaries for this time, too --> You may take the next 10 minutes to go to the bathroom or get a sip of water if you need it. The next lesson begins promptly at X:15.
************************************************************ **
Hope there's an idea here for you to consider and try, MR. I know right where you are!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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mumsrea
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 4:51pm | IP Logged
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What you are articulate is of course very Charlotte Mason-y, and as such gospel. :) Thanks for taking the time.
And while i love love love charlotte it is somewhat counter intuitive in that it doesn't seem to require him to mobilize the will and will actually result in less work getting done - though i'm willing to acknowledge it might be better quality work, done with less conflict.
I get so annoyed. Then i have a hard time shaking the feeling of dark irritation for the rest of the morning.
To implement this, would i just assign the math page and tell him to stop when the attention wanders? Because i'm quite certain that even if i assigned 5 questions instead of the usual 18 or so, he might begin the task with doodling on the page. or after question two. What makes the lesson short the number of questions that should be done in 5 minutes, or the number that he chooses to do in five minutes? And how many times does he get to use the "refocus" crutch? and what if it is within the first 5 minutes?
I guess i have always understood the "i read to him'" lessons being short, but not how that translates to the "what he is required to do" part.
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Kathryn
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 7:05pm | IP Logged
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Jen,
I would *LOVE, LOVE, LOVE* for this to work w/ my DS. However, what happens is my distraction to another task esp. related to tending to one of his sisters. I feel like this to work I have to hover over him for every.single.thing. How do you possibly keep your focus on him when I know you have 3 other children as well? It's been so exasperating and tiring to do. Now granted, I can't say I've done it exactly as you've done or as consistent or as structured  but we have to a certain degree and I just find it soo extremely time consuming and needing that complete 1-1 attn. May be it's b/c I don't have his plans 100% laid out as to what to move to next. Ohhh...the schedule...I so struggle w/ that. hmmmmm.....
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
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Kathryn wrote:
| How do you possibly keep your focus on him when I know you have 3 other children as well? It's been so exasperating and tiring to do. |
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When there is something that I need to "deal with" I have done several things when in different situations. It's SO IMP to have that time. When you start out, it seems so impossible, but really it only involves 10-20 minutes of focused attention for the first week or two and it will do wonders! You have to get creative about how to get that time:
:: Time at night when husband is home.
:: Nap time/others contained and quiet.
:: Early morning. Last fall, my emerging-reading-daughter needed me for 15 minutes without distractions, so we got up FIRST and hid in the basement, did our work, narrations, and then came upstairs.
:: Employ the olders. I know you do this already with your daughter, so I don't need to repeat this. Right now, right before lunch, two of my older girls take the 3 younger ones to a bedroom and they turn on music and dance for 15 minutes. They are NOT to come out of the room unless someone is DYING! This gives me 10 minutes of working with my daughter who needs focused help with a certain skill. We do this about 3 days / week and I've seen HUGE improvement in only 2 weeks!
:: We also role-play. We practice NOT INTERRUPTING.
:: I also have a big red Christmas Bow, that gets put on a chair when I need focused time with a certain child. The bow tells the others NOT to interrupt unless, again, they are DYING!  We role-play this also.
Start small....and BUILD. Use what Jen outlines above for just one thing at a time. Not all at once. Just pick one thing, do it....and build from there. You are NOT doing this with everything all at once.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 9:07pm | IP Logged
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mumsrea wrote:
| And while i love love love charlotte it is somewhat counter intuitive in that it doesn't seem to require him to mobilize the will and will actually result in less work getting done - though i'm willing to acknowledge it might be better quality work, done with less conflict. |
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I do think the child brings their will to the table, and must "mobilize it" when building any habit. I'm just not asking them to make herculean feats of self discipline right off the bat. I see it as setting them up for success by offering reasonable goals for them to meet. Success builds on success and habit forms from there. Any subject for which the child must exercise the discipline of "ought to do" summons their will.
If you think of the example of our faith, when we must build interior discipline to avoid temptation, it is the small voluntary deprivations, the small acts of mortification that assist us, strengthen us and fortify our will so that when we meet with the big temptations we have exercised self-discipline enough in the small things to be able to do so when faced with larger temptations. We summon and exercise our will in both the large and the small, but we prepare and strengthen ourselves with the little exercises of the will first.
As to the amount of work that gets done, we accomplish an extraordinary amount now that this habit is in place. The time it takes to cultivate a habit must be seen as an investment of time. Conversely, the amount of work that was accomplished before we really worked on building this habit was next to nil. My child was sullen, whiny, unmotivated. Like you, it colored the entire day.
mumsrea wrote:
| To implement this, would i just assign the math page and tell him to stop when the attention wanders? |
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I just asked for a significantly fewer number of exercises completed. In fact, when we started, we worked problems together either orally or with manipulatives and then I called the lesson over. When it was time to stretch, I asked for just a few problems completed. From there we stretched a little again. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer to this question - your own instinct and intuition would be the best guide for what would best fit your son. But again, the goal is to end the lesson before attention wanders.
mumsrea wrote:
| Because i'm quite certain that even if i assigned 5 questions instead of the usual 18 or so, he might begin the task with doodling on the page. or after question two. |
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In that case, I'd approach math from another angle entirely. Shake it up a bit. Are you sitting down to a workbook page? Get out manipulatives. Or just sit down with him and do the math on a dry erase board.
mumsrea wrote:
| What makes the lesson short the number of questions that should be done in 5 minutes, or the number that he chooses to do in five minutes? |
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The time of the lesson. 5 minutes (or whatever reasonable time you to choose to have him work). Period.
mumsrea wrote:
| And how many times does he get to use the "refocus" crutch? and what if it is within the first 5 minutes? |
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I suppose I would just be prepared to help him refocus as much as was needed. If I had to repeat this several times, or what seems an inordinate number of times I'd ask myself some more hard questions:
Quote:
? Are there a number of other distractions around him?
? Is this right before a needed snack time?
? Did he just watch or read something on >> ____insert interesting subject here...maybe dog breeds___ << and he hasn't had time to process, digest, talk about, narrate with you? So it all comes spilling out in the next lesson time?
? Is this lesson in any way redundant? |
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...and...
? Does he need a time of transition from a prior lesson/activity to help him into a focused time with the current lesson.
If this reminding is happening a lot, I'd probably look to change something - either shortening again, or looking critically at what we're doing (by looking critically I don't mean ditching something...I just mean coming at it from a different/fresh angle considering a variety of needs).
The keyword you choose to refocus are to be helpful/neutral reminders - not a crutch. I need reminders - so I put post it notes around on my planner and in my purse. Your son may need reminders because his habit is to allow his attention to go elsewhere. If he loses his place or forgets his focus, you just offer a gentle/neutral reminder to point the way.
mumsrea wrote:
| I guess i have always understood the "i read to him'" lessons being short, but not how that translates to the "what he is required to do" part. |
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He is required to do his best for a reasonable amount of time. You set the time and give him the tools to work diligently at something for a reasonable amount of time.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
Kathryn wrote:
| How do you possibly keep your focus on him when I know you have 3 other children as well? It's been so exasperating and tiring to do. |
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Start small....and BUILD. Just pick one thing, do it....and build from there. You are NOT doing this with everything all at once. |
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This is so true. It's an investment of time which means that I consider it to be valuable and a priority. When there is a time priority I will shift and rearrange and get crazy-creative with my other time spent during the day in order to make that worthwhile investment of time helping a child work on a habit.
It seems big at first, but it's one small step at a time. And I usually give myself a little time to collect my thoughts and consider (solutions/ideas/plans) and define (challenges/problems/limitations) before I start...I'm just trying to line up all my tools which I can do best by observing for a little while...watching for patterns.
LOVE Suzanne's idea for getting creative with time while there are other littles in the mix. My creative time management strategies tend to be very similar:
:: Make use of quiet time/nap time.
:: Have older child supervise a group of youngers while working with one child.
:: Leap Frog or other educational DVD.
:: Set up independent activities/learning areas in a separate room.
:: Give small children headsets and turn on wee sing
:: Small plastic blow-up swimming pool...in house...no water...but filled with safe scissors and scraps of paper for cutting...or add any other activity that you'd like to be sort of contained. I can roll the small pool into a closet when not in use.
:: I keep a small basket near my desk full of little odds and ends - a prism, magnifying glass, measuring tape, rainbow filter papers, kaleidoscope, mini self-contained maze puzzles, special & not-in-the-regular-circulation-of-toys lego or playmobil people, etc. In an emergency, that's what I pull out. I only allow these items out for a couple of minutes of investigation time. They need to stay special to keep their allure.
:: Quietly intercept child before interrupting with a gentle, "Do not interrupt. Please go back to ______ and I'll answer your question in a moment." Note to self...next habit to work on --> NOT INTERRUPTING.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 10:02pm | IP Logged
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Mackfam wrote:
| :: Quietly intercept child before interrupting with a gentle, "Do not interrupt. Please go back to ______ and I'll answer your question in a moment." Note to self...next habit to work on --> NOT INTERRUPTING. |
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No kidding!
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
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And, I forgot to add and laugh about the fact that we have a THREAD on not interrupting!
Several Actually
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: 3rd grader distracted unfocused behavior
