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violingirl
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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Does anyone here completely plan every subject for their child(ren)? Like not even a math book? I know many of you follow a living literature approach, but do you set your own math program as well?
I've been looking at resources for Kindergarten in order to set a budget for next year and I feel really comfortable doing our own thing (since we have been already) but my husband asked if it's really possible to continue that way past second or third grade. We both feel comfortable doing this in the early grades, but we're just thinking ahead a bit- does there just come a point where a set math or science (or whatever) curriculum is necessary?
If you do/did plan everything on your own, when do/did you decide it was time to work with a set curriculum?
My husband also asked about the reality of being able to set up our own plans year after year- if after awhile that will become very difficult to have the time to plan since I would have 2 school-age boys to plan for pretty quickly. I told him I'd ask the experienced ladies here. 
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Erin
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 11:55am | IP Logged
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I did for a while.. until I realized that some of it was just "reinventing the wheel". When my kids were begging for pages of math problems.. and I have 2 or 3 wanting them.. it's taking a lot of my time. And I'm not doing anything that wouldn't be in just about any math workbook. So when I found a program that was a very good fit. I saw nothing wrong with using that. But I still use it my way 
Also, I'm finding as the kids get older that they want to be able to do the work themselves and have more control over it. Which is a great thing. We want our kids to know that if they want to know something they can choose to learn it, that they don't have to wait for someone else to tell them it's time to learn it.
You can get scope and sequences if you just want help remembering all the various skills, say of math, that you want to teach in your own way.
There's a difference between using a boxed curriculum where you get everything and follow their lesson plans for one subject or all subjects vs getting some texts or workbooks or scope and sequence and adding in things and determining how to use those things yourself. A full curriculum fullfills some needs. But the pieces, the text book, the work book, in a way they can just be the tools you use to creat your own method and style of learning.
I was going to follow a nice neat timeline for history, but I couldn't do it. I get children expressing an interest in the Revolutionary War instead of wherever we're "supposed" to be.. and I'm not about to let that pass.. so we do Revolutionary War (and time around it). It would come down to that I think it's much more important for children to learn when they're interested than by a schedule.. anyone's schedule, including my own.
Now some things are still non-negotiable.. I think of them as the tools to allow you to learn on your own.. basic math, reading, grammar. But history, science, what we read.. that can all bow to individual interest.
And if you express an interest in doing Algebra (like my oldest has) well then I'm also going to help you get to the point you can do it.. there are things you need to learn first.. math is like that  )
And of course because we do things as a family, those without a particular interest at the time get carried along on the interests of others.
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Helen
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
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Erin, I have wanted to ask a similar question -- the question of:
Why do you choose to design your own?
I hope I'm not hijacking your thread. I want to hear why other homeschoolers think it is worth the investment of time to design your own and any other benefits they have received. Erin, do you think thIs is similar to your question?
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Ave Maria!
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violingirl
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 8:26pm | IP Logged
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Jodie, thank you for your perspective. I'm not opposed to workbooks or curriculum at all, but I don't know that a whole page of math for a 1st grader is going to work for us, you know? I get what you're saying about using the workbook or text as a tool.
We're still trying to decide how to try things for next year, but I think we've settled on math with manipulatives, reading, and a little bit of writing every day, and all the other stuff as we please since he'll be in Kindergarten.
Helen> I don't see it as a hijack at all. :) In answer to your question, I've been teaching for almost 12 years (outside students, not my own kids) and the longer I teach the more I see how there isn't any one certain way for kids to learn. The intention behind putting together my own materials is to acknowledge that fact and work within what helps my kids. I feel like it will also give us freedom to take history and science in the directions we're interested in rather than feeling like we MUST stick with whatever the book had planned. Like I said above, I'm not opposed to curriculum per se, but I do want it to be a tool for us to use, and not feel like we are trapped by it.
I also *really* enjoy putting materials together and researching, so it's not a burden on me to do that. It's quite fun. :)
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Erin
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 8:41pm | IP Logged
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yes and if you write done what you do with your oldest, then you'll have that for younger kids even if you need to tweak it.
The math we decided on, a whole page of math in 1st grade is 2-6 problems and I let my kids set the pace, but encourage them to finish the page they're working on. We add manipulatives to it when it works.. but I've had so many littles all at once.. that controlling the mainpulatives was driving me nuts.. I tended to draw pictures rather than use objects.. and the math we use uses pictures just like I had been doing.
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JuliaT
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 9:04pm | IP Logged
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I do use curriculum with my two oldest for the basics. For the content subjects, I do my own thing. Now that I am confident in teaching and I know what I am teaching, I am not using curriculum with my youngest, except for reading (she has dyslexia.) I use picture books to teach grammar and literary devices (just simple ones like simile, alliteration a la FIAR.) I do living math with her and it is working out very well.
The reason that I do so much on my own is because my children have learning differences and it is just easier to do my own thing with those differences in mind.
I wish I had the confidence to do my own thing with the basics for my oldest but I am just not there yet. Will I continue doing my own with my youngest? I am not sure. I think I could, with the exception of math but I will have to wait until we get there. I don't think I will ever use a formal history program but I will probably start formal science in Gr. 8.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 10:19pm | IP Logged
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Hi Erin. Great questions!
violingirl wrote:
| Does anyone here completely plan every subject for their child(ren)? Like not even a math book? I know many of you follow a living literature approach, but do you set your own math program as well? |
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I do for my youngers. I design my own curriculum for all subjects for my littles.
I start using a textbook for math around the 4th grade. Up to the 4th grade we spend a lot of time using manipulatives and some Montessori ideas for building a good understanding of basic math concepts, and I do print out little worksheets from Enchanted Learning as well as making use of the Math Is Fun site which we love (hat tip to Jodie on that one! ). Another resource I'm liking a lot are the DK Math Made Easy workbooks. I'm not a workbook fan, but these are nice, very inexpensive, and are helpful for little people that really want "big kid" work. I found mine at Costco for a song. There are probably some really good math programs I could use for early elem. but I'm comfortable doing what we do now, and don't feel a need to invest. Does that make any sense?
violingirl wrote:
| I feel really comfortable doing our own thing (since we have been already) but my husband asked if it's really possible to continue that way past second or third grade. |
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Certainly it's possible! And, if you're enjoying the planning part there's no reason you can't. Just remember that each new year is just an extension of the year before that. It can be crippling to think too far ahead and try to anticipate, but if you focus on living out your year and begin thinking towards the next one, considering how each year you can move forward going a little wider and a little deeper than the last, it's certainly possible!!!
violingirl wrote:
| does there just come a point where a set math or science (or whatever) curriculum is necessary? |
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Hard to say. I do choose to make use of a few curriculum tools to help me out. We use a math program (after 4th grade), a grammar program I use and like, a phonics program, a few others...but even with these tools, I generally don't use them exactly as they are set up. So, even with the use of some tools, there can still be a fair amount of designing, translating and working creatively to help tools fit your home and your children.
Some of this may have to do with your comfort levels. If you begin to feel a lack of confidence in a certain area, you might begin to prudently discern a particular tool that can help you convey information. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if you do that and choose to make use of a curriculum tool or three for some areas, it doesn't mean you have to use it *exactly* as it is written.
violingirl wrote:
| My husband also asked about the reality of being able to set up our own plans year after year- if after awhile that will become very difficult to have the time to plan since I would have 2 school-age boys to plan for pretty quickly. |
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Well, while it's true that with more children there is less time available for working on things like planning, it's also true that after a few years, you begin to settle into a routine with planning that makes it very comfortable. You get to know yourself, your home ed philosophy, where you might be comfortable trying something new, where you're completely content...you are realistic, but enjoy brainstorming a challenge. It's good to be mindful that your time will be limited the more children you have and knowing that circumstances could dictate a point that taking the time to plan would not be a good use of time, but in general I'm finding that the longer I do this, the more comfortable I am in my own shoes, and the challenges are just different.
If you're feeling comfortable planning a bit, Kindergarten is a great place to try your hand at it. Leave plenty of room for fun and exploring and outside time!! I think you'll do great!!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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Helen wrote:
| I want to hear why other homeschoolers think it is worth the investment of time to design your own and any other benefits they have received. |
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It is an investment of time, to be sure, isn't it. I want to be careful. I don't want to walk myself into a corner I can't get out of by implying that designing your own curriculum and plans is THE BEST or ONLY way to go. Certainly not. I have always said that I can envision circumstances in my life that would require me to have to consider carefully a tool like a set of plans. How blessed we are today in Catholic home education that there are a few to choose from!!
Having said that, I obviously find value in considering and designing and planning our days. Why?
** I am invested in the days. I consider them carefully, consider the child, consider where we are and where we're going.
** Considering and writing my own plans helps me to manage my own time. I can consider that if I'm going to be teaching a lesson to one child, I need to have considered something more independent for my other children...and it follows that I can't be teaching two different lessons at the same time. Writing my own plans helps me consider that ahead of time and lay it out on paper.
** Planning encourages observation. I observe - really watch and take in - what is working, what isn't, what seems boring and dull...why? is it an issue of presentation? can I adjust expectations? does music whip small children into a frenzy in the mornings? move it to the afternoon. Doing my own planning means that I can make those observations and then change plans/expectations to adjust to certain challenges. Quite possibly, one of the most valuable things about planning!!
** The children and I can work together to set our days. I consider carefully ahead of time and have a good idea of subjects and vision, but I like to invite the children's input as I build their days. I certainly have a lot to say (imagine that  ) but plans work best for us when my children are involved and we've discussed together what the options are for something, how we want to get there, their ideas. This is working very well for my 13yo. She is transitioning toward her own time management. She has been a part of planning every year so this transition is very natural for her.
** Writing my own plans DEMANDS that I am attentive to where my children are developmentally and I can best address where they are *right now* across the range of subjects. For example, if my young reader is struggling with reading, I will be building plans that allow him to slowly build confidence in reading without overwhelming him in other areas. My plans are built to fit a particular child. This is especially beneficial for a struggling child, I've learned.
** One of the best things about planning is that I can set aside a lot of white space or margin in our days. Charlotte Mason called this time "Masterly Inactivity" or "wise and purposeful letting alone." I love how this idea looks in our home, and I love that my children's plans can reflect the margin needed for this.
** Designing my own plans allows me to communicate ideas in a way that is a little different than other plans. Since these ideas are valuable to me, this is important to me. My plans emphasize literature rich learning and living experiences. They encourage inquiry.
** I can address our season of life and the challenges we are facing in the plans. Plans can reflect basics and encourage projects that are more open-ended...or they can provide a reassuring sense of routine when life is otherwise chaotic. I can prayerfully consider which is most needed.
** Writing my own plans means that I can set plans for individual children's work, but I can also include plans and ideas for "together work" all in the same day. My children's age spread is more so than others (almost 4 years apart), and not what you would normally consider close in age and therefore conducive to combining subjects...but there are a few subjects that they really enjoy working on together!! I can address this and plan for it. I love that there are times in the day that they come together for grammar challenges or Baltimore Catechism hallway quiz races or history read alouds or our art focus on Fine Arts Fridays. Hey...that reminds me...
** I love that every day doesn't have to look the same on my plans! I can plan that on Mondays we'll be out of the house for Mass and Apologetics class for a good part of the morning and include fun audio car schooling and independent reading work for the day. Fridays can emphasize the Fine Arts.
How'd I do? Did I convey why I think it's worth my time and a blessing on top of that?
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: March 18 2010 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
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violingirl wrote:
| Does anyone here completely plan every subject for their child(ren)? Like not even a math book? I know many of you follow a living literature approach, but do you set your own math program as well? |
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My oldest girls are only 7.5 and almost 9...and we have used Math-u-see, as a guide, watching the videos and doing some of the worksheets. I'm thinking that now that I know what's involved in grade 1-2-3 math, I may not do a "math curriculum" with my other girls in those early elem years. Not sure.
violingirl wrote:
| I've been looking at resources for Kindergarten in order to set a budget for next year and I feel really comfortable doing our own thing (since we have been already) but my husband asked if it's really possible to continue that way past second or third grade. We both feel comfortable doing this in the early grades, but we're just thinking ahead a bit- does there just come a point where a set math or science (or whatever) curriculum is necessary? |
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Maybe. You won't really know until you get there. Everyone has a different comfort level, different kids, different circumstances, etc. I'd say focus on THIS YEAR, with an open-eye toward "envisioning" your years of home education in the back of your mind....always exploring, questioning, considering.....but don't get overly concerned about "tomorrow." And, have a "long term vision" in mind too, just don't get caught up in the minutia of several years down the road.
But, YES! I DO think it's VERY POSSIBLE to CREATE your own plans past the early elementary years! Many of the veterans here have been doing it, and it is what attracted me here in the first place after learning about Charlotte Mason, unschooling, unit studies, and reading Real Learning.
Quote:
| My husband also asked about the reality of being able to set up our own plans year after year- if after awhile that will become very difficult to have the time to plan since I would have 2 school-age boys to plan for pretty quickly. I told him I'd ask the experienced ladies here. |
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The good news is that you are "easing" into this. You are starting from the beginning. As you get more children into the fold, your comfort level, knowledge and efficiency will expand and you'll find your pace and your system, tweak, and work it into your family.
This is NOT something you must learn overnight, or even in ONE YEAR! You have a couple more years to look at other plans, read archives, browse curriculum, read, and consider your vision....you're setting the stage for your "future planning career" by doing all these things! It's SO EXCITING!
And, We are discussing creating your own plans here in this thread.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Angel
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| Posted: March 19 2010 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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Personally, I think there are lots of ways to do your own thing. Along the way you may find yourself using a few textbooks or workbooks in combination with an eclectic mix of books and projects for other subjects, but just because you are using a workbook for math or grammar doesn't have to mean that you are doing every page in it, or using it according to prewritten lesson plans, or basing your day upon it. I tend to look at it this way: I have a number of tools at my disposal in order to meet the individual needs of my children and my family. Different times in our lives will result in a different mix of materials and approaches.
So far, like Jen, I have found that a very gentle, relaxed, manipulative approach to math works fine in grades K-3. I think if you were on top of things you could also design your own arithmetic course for grades 4-6. Coming from a Montessori perspective, I decided that I just didn't know enough about using the upper elementary math materials, so we switched to Saxon 5/4 in 4th grade. My dd needed more manipulative work, though, in order to understand long division and multi-digit multiplication, so midway through 5/4, we dropped it and went to Making Math Meaningful for a while. That did the trick, and so we switched back to Saxon, hitting appropriate lessons in 5/4 this year in 5th grade and moving on to 6/5, which she's been zooming through. But she was a child who absolutely needed the manipulative approach in grades K-3. Workbooks absolutely did not work for her.
On the other hand, until very recently I was doing a very Montessori/manipulative based approach with my 6 yo ds, and it was working all right but I got to the point with a bunch of kids and being pregnant that I wasn't being consistent. So, prayerfully, I considered the situation and my options and decided to order Seton Math 1. To my surprise, he *loves* it. I don't make him write much in the book -- we do it orally together -- but he will zoom through 4 pages of math at a time and now he says, "I love math!"
So I think it's important to come into this homeschooling thing without a whole lot of preconceived notions. For us, "doing our own thing" has always meant that we are free to provide an individualized education for our children. Their needs and our needs as a family often change over time. My job is to try to meet those needs, whatever they are. Often this will mean making my own plans and designing my own curriculum -- even for a teen. But sometimes it will also mean using a textbook, usually in a skill area.
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Angela
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Helen
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| Posted: March 23 2010 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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Thank you for your considered responses. In the past couple of years, I feel like the Wil E. Coyote of planning. The times I try to write down some formal plans, they fall on my like an anvil.
I'm looking forward to the Planning Forum here!
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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Maggie
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| Posted: March 23 2010 at 12:37pm | IP Logged
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My question is this (for all you seasoned hsing moms):
I have noticed that many people want to know what "grade" my dd is in. It's hard to say. Because we started to just do our own thing, she is on a first grade level for some things, a K level for others, and preschool for others. It's all over the place.
My husband is concerned about this because he worries that at some point, when our children are older, that we may want to do a more formal curriculum. However, I feel like as we go along, doing our own thing, that it would be harder and harder to try and fit my children into any sort of "boxed" curriculum. (At this point, I couldn't even fit her into a boxed Kindergarten curriculum without doing quite a bit of tweaking in certain subject areas, kwim?)
And at that point, are you "stuck" into designing everything the whole rest of the way? I enjoy it now...will I enjoy designing everything in 10 more years, God-willing, with more children in tow?
Funny...a few years ago I was very "boxed" curriculum oriented...and now, I just don't think it would work very well with my dd and her idiosyncrasies.
Any thoughts?
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ekbell
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| Posted: March 23 2010 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
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As someone who was both behind and ahead when I was in public school I know first hand that grades are always an aproximation for all children.
So I don't waste much time giving details on how child x reads well above grade level, is perhaps a bit behind in math, has finally pretty much caught up to grade level writing ability, etc etc. I just give the grade level that corresponds with their age.
This said, one thing I've found is that my children have been much more 'lopsided' in their skills and knowledge during the early learning-to-read period.
I've noticed a tendency to for the more advanced skills to plateau for a bit while other skills continue to develop. Interests have tended to broaden somewhat as well.
So the child who didn't write at all when six now writes quite well for her age and the child who didn't read independently when six now has no problems reading material at her 'grade level'. The child who read nothing but science books now devours fiction, the child who always picked story books has found *some* science books to be interesting.
I admit that I've tended to encourage this 'evening out' process by feeling freer to simply provide materials and leave the child to themselves in areas that they were already reasonably proficient while looking for material for 'problem areas'..
(for example I simply picked up good science books whenever I saw them on sale and gave the child who loved such books plenty of time to read them, while I've made a point of choosing good living science books to read to the child who was unlikely to pick them up to read on her own)
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Willa
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 11:17am | IP Logged
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Helen wrote:
In the past couple of years, I feel like the Wil E. Coyote of planning. The times I try to write down some formal plans, they fall on my like an anvil.
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This is what happens to me. It's not that I can't plan. It's that the more complete my plans, the heavier they feel when they smack down on my head.  I just haven't figured this out. And yet, "not-planning" as Theresa does so well, doesn't work for me either. A dilemma!
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Willa
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 11:32am | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
Helen wrote:
In the past couple of years, I feel like the Wil E. Coyote of planning. The times I try to write down some formal plans, they fall on my like an anvil.
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This is what happens to me. It's not that I can't plan. It's that the more complete my plans, the heavier they feel when they smack down on my head. I just haven't figured this out. And yet, "not-planning" as Theresa does so well, doesn't work for me either. A dilemma! |
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After experiencing a ready made plan this year, Willa, was it any softer than an anvil or did outside motivation help you stick with their plan?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 11:36am | IP Logged
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Maggie wrote:
My question is this (for all you seasoned hsing moms):
I have noticed that many people want to know what "grade" my dd is in. It's hard to say. Because we started to just do our own thing, she is on a first grade level for some things, a K level for others, and preschool for others. It's all over the place.
Any thoughts? |
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I just tell people the grade as it would be according to their birthdays when they are in public school.
There is a local family where the kids are very smart and they always give the grades they are actually working in and people are surprised when they don't look that old, and then they explain they are ahead academically. Comes across as a little pretentious in context (like casual office Christmas party conversation where I was privy) since for most people, it is just another version of asking a child's age, imo.
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Willa
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| After experiencing a ready made plan this year, Willa, was it any softer than an anvil or did outside motivation help you stick with their plan? |
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It worked SO much better this year (much more like a pillow than an anvil : ))that I realize that my problem is not so much lack of discipline as just lack of a certain kind of planning energy or executive function. I can't seem to steer between perfectionism and minimalism in my own planning, but when it was all laid out I had no trouble flexing, adapting, or adding without making myself crazy.
I think that's why I'm looking forward to the planning forum -- I'm not used to having so much difficulty doing something I am really trying wholeheartedly to do! So maybe there's something everyone else takes for granted that I just am not getting!
Somehow my older kids did survive so I don't think "Planning Deficit Syndrome" is fatal, more like an ongoing thorn -- I wish I could do it better. This year was a nice break from the frustration, but next year I am back to Do-It-Yourself for high school (my 5th high schooler) so I am already facing up to that looming anvil again.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Angel
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
I think that's why I'm looking forward to the planning forum -- I'm not used to having so much difficulty doing something I am really trying wholeheartedly to do! So maybe there's something everyone else takes for granted that I just am not getting!
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I very much identify with this, Willa. And like you said, my difficulties with planning and organization don't seem to be fatal for my kids (although we have yet to do high school  ), but I can't always help thinking that I'm missing something and so are my kids. That it may be "okay" or even "good enough" but it's not always "optimal".
But since I also seem to be very following-directions impaired, and my kids seem to be all over the place in terms of grade level, I'm not sure a completely ready made program would work at our house either. I have to confess that sometimes (when life gets difficult especially) this leaves me feeling trapped between a rock and a hard place.
What has helped me in the past few years, though, is the ability to ask people who are good at planning and organization really, really basic questions about what they do. I often find that they do things instinctively that never even occur to me and my ADD-ish, nonsequential brain. 
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
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Ditto what Willa and Angela said for me
It has felt like an anvil this year!
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Kristie in Canada
Mom to 3 boys and one spunky princess!!
A Walk in the Woods
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Erin
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| Posted: March 24 2010 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
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Violingirl wrote:
| Does anyone here completely plan every subject for their child(ren)? Like not even a math book? I know many of you follow a living literature approach, but do you set your own math program as well? |
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Hi Erin
I've been wanting to answer this for days.
Short answer,(other than maths)is, Yes.
Violingirl wrote:
| I've been looking at resources for Kindergarten in order to set a budget for next year and I feel really comfortable doing our own thing (since we have been already) but my husband asked if it's really possible to continue that way past second or third grade. We both feel comfortable doing this in the early grades, but we're just thinking ahead a bit- does there just come a point where a set math or science (or whatever) curriculum is necessary? |
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For many years I did not use a textbook for any subject other than maths. I still don't use a pre-set curriculum for any of my children, even my Grade 11 dd.
*I'm defining curriculum as an 'everything contained' package.
Textbooks are for individual subjects which you as the parent select. Clear??
Violingirl wrote:
If you do/did plan everything on your own, when do/did you decide it was time to work with a set curriculum?
My husband also asked about the reality of being able to set up our own plans year after year- if after awhile that will become very difficult to have the time to plan since I would have 2 school-age boys to plan for pretty quickly. I told him I'd ask the experienced ladies here.
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We started using some textbooks a few years into highschool for our highschoolers. This year with eight children I am using a text for some of my primary aged children. All texts though are what I would call 'living textbooks.'
Part of this is I finally realised that with some of my plans I was needlessly re-inventing the wheel.
After time some plans don't need to be spelt out to as you 'just know.' Some areas I never wrote out for my children. I've never been a planner down to the detail of Maths: Lesson *-* on Week*. I'm more of a Maths: try to do 2 pages a day planner.
Enjoying this thread Erin
Now I want to catch up on everyone else's thoughts
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Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: planning everything yourself?
