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rivendellmom
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| Posted: July 17 2005 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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I'm hoping that someone can clue me in to how to handle our oldest childs apparent disobedient/defiance problem. Or that this is a cautionary tale for someone else. It all started when our oldest asked to take a summer school class at our local high school. He is 14 and will be starting 9th grade this fall (at home). He has neighborhood buddies who always seemed nice enough to us that were also going to take this World Civilization class. Our son has not been to real school since we pulled him out in 4th grade. So, although the bells of warning were ringing in my head- I agreed. DH thought it would be a good experience and a intro for us in case we ever put any of the kids in school- its only for 6 weeks etc etc. We told DS at the beginning that we were expecting an A out of this course for him as it seemed like it would be very easy. I thought of it like a camp type fun thing for him.
In 2 weeks we saw attitude changes, 3 weeks brought around scary looking boys ringing the doorbell, 3 and 1/2 weeks brought a progress report home that said C-. This is for class that involves nothing more than reading 10 pages of text a night and filling in blanks on a worksheet. The actual class time is spent watching movies and taking tests. So, we informed DS that he was now grounded until the end of summer school. If he managed to get an A he could have the rest of his summer. If not, he was grounded until school starts. Grounded meaning no phone,internet,going to anyones house. DS thinks all this is unfair as his friends are all failing this class- and they aren't grounded. Hmmm. We did allow him to go to one boys house as they are working on a scout project together and I wanted him to honor his commitment. So, I would say, yes you can go over there, but be home by 6 for dinner. He was late. No call, just late. We talk about keeping your word and responsibility. He seems to understand, yet is late again and again. Now last weekend they had their scout camp out, ours on takes one of our sleeping bags, and 2 tents because they have extra scouts coming. DH informs DS that the extra equipment is his responsibility and we are holding him responsible for any damage. When DH picks up DS he finds one tent with burn holes, one sleeping bag in the fire and the other tent full of flour and ketchup. DS has no explanation for how any of this happened and seems to have lots of remorse (cries etc) (I realize that the supervision of the scout people is a seperate issue) Thanks for reading this far I'm almost done! DS spends the next week being compliant and extra helpful. After school on friday he asks if he ride to friends house to help him set up a computer lego thing. I say yes and ask him to be home by 5. He calls at 4:30 to ask if he can eat over there (2 blocks away) and stay longer. I think- "he's getting it! He remembered to call and ask, so I say sure, be home at 8." At 7:30 he calls to see if he can swim at their pool. I'm annoyed but at least he's calling- right? So I say yes be home at 9.
9:05, 9:30,10:00, 10:30 no calls no DS. DH is about to wake me to tell me that he's going looking, when DS walks in the front door with 3 boys he met at a party in the next neighborhood that he went to instead of swimming. What? He wants to know if they can spend the night? DH offers to drive the 3 home they say no thanks and leave. DS offers no explanation except that he didn't think it would be a big deal. He is now of course grounded from everything except breathing and has to go with me everywhere. I just can't figure out what the problem is. He reminds me of a dog- the dog knows not to eat food of the counter, but does, and then hides when he sees you.
I'm going to be having this new baby any day, and am more than a little emotional about the atmosphere in this house. I now have my Mom lined up to come and stay when I go into labor, but I never imagined that we would have these kind of problems. This kid had never been grounded before- ever. And the younger kids are watching wide eyed, so I am aware that we are setting a standard. Does anyone have any advice, besides the fact that I am going to keep him supervised for the next who knows how long? We also moved him out of his basement room and he will now share with his 9yo brother, so he has little privacy and is next door to our room where we can keep a better eye on him. I really don't know what to think. He still says that he didn't think its that big of a deal.
Jen
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Jen in suburban Chicagoland Mom to Connor(91), Garrett(93), Reilly (95), Mary Katherine (98), Declan (05), Ronan in ^i^ 6/28/08
visit our new blog: http://recreationalscholar.blogspot.com/
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Kim F
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| Posted: July 17 2005 at 12:46pm | IP Logged
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I wish I had some insight for you! Can only say we have one (out of 8) who is in a similar situation. Oddly, just that one, so my one word of comfort is not to assume you are on a totally wrong parenting track. Some kids have very different struggles than their siblings for whatever reason.
My son with these issues also has been involved with neighborhood kids (when we lived in town) and team sports at the hs. So I DO think that is a huge part of it. Guess we can't predict which of our kids will handle that well and which will not. : /
Truth is the arent kidding anymore when they tell you NOone else has curfews or restrictions or standards etc. I am coming to see its no exaggeration. Few of the kids we meet do. Which makes our job exponentially harder. So anyone reading this - DONT assume its like it was 20 yrs ago at the schools and that what would have worked for you will work with your kids. Its a whole other ballgame now.
Will be thinking more on this and hope some other moms will chime in.
Kim
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 9:21am | IP Logged
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Dear Jen,
You ar not alone! My initial reaction to your post was to wonder what it is about 14  . I completely empathize. When I was as pregant as you are with my last baby, my eldest was about to turn fourteen. The baby was breech. As I was leaving for the hospital to attempt a version, I told him that one of three things would happen: (1) She'd turn and they would induce immediately, (2) She wouldn't turn at all and I'd schedule a c-section; (3) there would be a problem with the version and I'd need an emergency c-section. He looked at me and all he said was "But will I be able to go to art tomorrow?" Art classes were his social life that fall. Apparently, 14 year-olds are very peer driven. The incident should have been fair warning of the rough year to come. I spoke about it at NACHE and here is a transcript of that talk fwiw (only because I haven't time right now to really tell you all the things on my heart when I read your post) .2005-07-18_091255_NACHE2003.doc
I will say this, as my children grew and we became involved with sports and even with church things, I let down my guard just a little with regard to the culture. We are NOT the better for it. I'm recommitting to being vigilant. Teenagers, as much or more than little children, need to have very clear boundaries. Some kids might do fine with a really long leash but most kids--even relaly good kids from really good families--need more supervision and not less. They are sooo egocentric that they need to be protected from themselves until they develop past that stage. As I have gotten older, when I compare notes with other homeschooling moms with teenagers, I find almost universally that every family has some of these issues that seem to belong to the culture. Here, we are at a disadvantage. If you were talking in the bleachers at local high school things like sneaking out, going to parties with beer, finding a nasty magazine stashed where your son didn't think you'd ever look would be pretty common. But in homeschooling circles, they are not.We are horrified by that behaviour and with good cause. So, when our kids do things we never thought they'd do by virtue of the fact that we homeschool, we wonder who we can possibly find to confide in. Truth is, we all have kids who are human. And all of our teenagers need confession. And we really, really need each other to get through these years.
Great Big Hugs to You! Enjoy those few days in the hospital with the wee one and truly inhale the sweetness of innocence.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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stefoodie
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
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oh jen, no time right now to write a long response, but i have a 14-yo who has recently been more of a challenge, than before. i don't have any great words of wisdom, but i did notice they really do need more one-on-one time with mom and/or dad than i originally thought. i am LOVING it, though there are days i wish we could just get past this age and move on. praying for you and your family.
sending you hugs
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stef
mom to five
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rivendellmom
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 1:14pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth,
Thank you so much for your kind words and empathy. I cried when I read your NACHE talk. I have the oldest child among our homeschool circle and I really needed to hear that this is a common thing. The Moms I talked to were as mystified as I was. All I heard was, "but he's such a nice boy" And I thought, I hope he still is.
I was at the Dr. this morning and I am 2 cm's, so it won't be long now. Since I've never dilated on my own (always induced a week or more post dates)I have to get used to the idea that I'll be driving to the hospital in labor. yikes. I'm forwarding your response and article to DH so he can read it too. Thanks again, Jen
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Jen in suburban Chicagoland Mom to Connor(91), Garrett(93), Reilly (95), Mary Katherine (98), Declan (05), Ronan in ^i^ 6/28/08
visit our new blog: http://recreationalscholar.blogspot.com/
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 1:19pm | IP Logged
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Ummm, Jen, I dot think you should drive yourself to the hospital in labor. Grnd multips who are already dilated before labor have been known to go from the first twinge to breastfeeding in under an hour. Been there, done that. GREAT kid! (He's only four  ) The one thing you should do when you go into labor, though, is post here and let us know. We want to pray you through the day (or night)--we're open 'round the clock, right Leonie?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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rivendellmom
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 3:50pm | IP Logged
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Well, I wasn't going to drive myself, but I will be driven and that in itself is new. I'm used to going at 6am and being in labor in the hospital bed only!The hospital is half an hour away, so it could get hairy. I'll make sure we leave early enough as I don't really want a home birth! I wanted to say thanks to Stef and Kim also! I'll be sure to send a quick message when I actually start laboring.
Jen
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Jen in suburban Chicagoland Mom to Connor(91), Garrett(93), Reilly (95), Mary Katherine (98), Declan (05), Ronan in ^i^ 6/28/08
visit our new blog: http://recreationalscholar.blogspot.com/
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time4tea
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 4:09pm | IP Logged
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Just wanted to chime in that yes, you should leave the house pretty fast when labor begins. I was shocked when I got to the hospital with my last one - I had just happily finished my grilled cheese and tea at home - to find out that I was 10 cm., and dd was on her way (despite a gaggle of protesting nurses shouting at me that the doctor was "just 30 minutes away! You can't have this baby now!").
God bless you and your family!
Jenny
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Blessings to you!
~Tea
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guitarnan
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 5:11pm | IP Logged
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Jen,
I'm praying for you! And...my son is 13, so I guess I'm going to take several more hard looks at your Cautionary Tale.
I will say that younger teens are totally into the peer acceptance thing, and so it's our job as parents to surround our children with peers that are acceptable. We're struggling with this at my house, certainly, although I live in a small community in which everyone knows everyone else, so it's easy to find out which kids are going to be friendship material.
The other thing to remember is that it's not your job to provide a good role model (your son) for other people's kids. If there are bad things going on in the Scout troop, perhaps it's time to find a different troop. There can be "bad apples" in Scouting, sadly. (My son is a Boy Scout; dd's godfather is a Scoutmaster in Korea and has some real behavior horror stories!)
Part of your son's behavior may be due to the worries he might have about you and the new baby. He is old enough to understand what's really involved, and young enough to feel very worried about you and protective of you. My son cautions me every time I get out my big knife (I have cut myself twice with it and needed stitches both times) and frets over my driving and stuff like that.
Remember to praise his good behavior (such as thoughtful acts) and to thank him for anything he does on his own. He is probably spending a lot of time worrying about his acceptance, his appearance, his interest in girls - or lack of - or lack of understanding of everyone else's jokes, his ability to fit in...these are all issues with my son. When I catch him doing good things, I see him glow with pride at the modest praise I express.
I am sure your son is truly a good kid at heart. My husband assures me that most boys of that age are lazy and impulsive and don't think ahead to consequences (even ones they've agreed to!). He keeps telling me this is all normal...but we're pretty strict with our son and we are in the process of trying to divert one of his friendships onto a less-involved path, because the friend is showing unusual interest in our 7-year-old daughter. So, I can certainly understand your worries and your frustration!
Your son might not be able to express in words all the conflicting things he is feeling. Perhaps some "Dad time" would help...I know this will make it harder on you when the baby is finally here, but it would give your son some time away in a relaxing activity (ball game? movie?) that might lead to some sharing with Dad. While your mother is there, you might be able to work this out and still get a little sleep!
I hope it helps to know that other people are right where you are!
Lots of prayers headed your way!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Leonie
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| Posted: July 18 2005 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
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Jen,
You are in my prayers - with this labour and with your concern for your ds.
Just think, there are people here from all time zones so you will be getting prayers all day! 
WRT your son, I want you to know that , while homeschooling is a good way to build relationships, it still doesn't make we or our dc perfect ( I wish!).
There are always issues to work on, so please don't feel as though you are alone.
I want to encpourage you to be firm - I feel it is always best, with my sons, if I come from a position of honesty. Honestly share my expectations, my guidelines for behaviour, the whys of these.
And it is important, imo, for dh to share this with sons, too.
Sometimes, our kids just need boundaries - boundaries with love, yes, and with clear explanations and expectations of our rules of life as Christians.And even a silent acknowledgement that stress over growing up, over changes in a family ( like a new baby!  ) can affect teens.
But I would also encourage you and dh to make home a fun place - I am not saying that it isn't, of course! But I know that my kids enjoy home even more when we have had games and table tennis or billiard tables and movies ( or whatever) together, amidst our chores and day to day life. Home continues to be a good place to hang out!
Don't stress, you also need some rest at this stage in your pregnancy. Easy for me to say, I know , so I am praying! Just take it one day at a time, with clear boundaries and a positive attitude and prayer.
You are in my prayers for your labour and sweet baby .
Leonie in Sydney
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TracyQ
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| Posted: July 25 2005 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
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Wow! I can't TELL you how encouraged and supported I feel after reading this thread! It's been a rough transition for us into the teenage years. Well, for ME anyway!
Our oldest, Jake is 14yo, will be 15 next month. He's a great kid, but not perfect, and has given us some issues to deal with this year as well. It's incredible to me to see just how self centered they become at this age. And often, my day depends largely on HIS mood! Ugh. And they say GIRLS are more difficult! Well then, God is preparing me for our 10yo girl possibly with the first two boys.
It's an adventure, for sure! Thank GOD, we all have each other here for support and encouragement.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Ok- How do we tackle this one?
