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Elizabeth
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One of Michael's best friends in the world left for college this year. She was homeschooled through high school, did phenomenally well both through Kolbe and on her SATs and pretty much had her pick of schools. One thing that played heavily into her decision was her desire to stay pretty close to home. She went to the University of Virginia which consistently ranks in lots of polls as a top public university. And she's finding it rather unpleasant, to say the least. I linked to her blog from my blog this morning. And there's a link there to a column I did a couple of years ago, too. Courtney's post is the tip of the iceberg. We are getting frequent updates (via middle of the night calls that leave Michael rather cranky in the morning) about just how polluted campuses have become. For instance, there is only one pro-life voice in her bioethics class: hers. Anyway, read her post, comment, make the phone call she suggests, but also, let's talk here about how to prepare for the world beyond homeschooling. It's not pretty.
Oh, and please pray for Courtney!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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stefoodie
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yikes. that's just scary scary scary. I'm having my 15-year old read this.
it's things like this (and remembering how bad it was at my university) that make me want to consider online college courses for dc. sigh....
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stef
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Bridget
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Up until this year, I worked hard at protecting Kevin from anything ugly in our culture. I planned on him going to one of the good Catholic colleges. But as he hit 13 he has been showing a keen interest in world and Church events. He is ready to fight the battles. At least he thinks he is.
I realized that he needs to be armed to face this stuff whether he has a parish or a family to protect and guide one day. We probably can’t afford to send him to one of the good Catholic schools. Even there he may encounter some of these problems. Or, part of what Gods calls him to do will involve a secular school. We can’t know yet.
What I do know is that, for him, it’s time to prepare. Monday i let him read some articles on 9/11 to help him better understand what happened. I wouldn’t have considered that till this year. We recently had conversations about divorce and babies born out of marriage.
Right now I think discussing events and showing him how men of integrity handle themselves in tough /ugly situations. He has the examples of his dad,uncles, grandpa, the saints, and men from literature and movies.
He is getting some practice with a few minor situations in sports. We are slowly allowing him more and more access to the media. Always discussing.
I am mourning his childhood ending a little. But he is so ready to push on and work on being a man.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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lapazfarm
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Bridget, I think that is beautiful! It is so important that as our boys hit the middle school years that we keep in mind that they will be men soon, and begin preparing them for that in earnest! I love your examples and will take them to heart as I ponder the training of my own little men!
For our daughters I think in some ways it may be more difficult. At least our boys still have alot of examples in the world of being leaders and providers, though not as many as we would wish. For girls it is becoming increasingly difficult to find examples to hold up to them. The whole world seems to be against them!
For my dd (16) at least we have the unfortunate example of how NOT to behave in our oldest daughter, who has turned from the path in just about every way. DD sees her sister and the very real consequences of her actions and knows she doesn't want to go there!
But honestly, the thought of impending college, and all she will have to endure there scares me!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Bridget
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lapazfarm wrote:
For my dd (16) at least we have the unfortunate example of how NOT to behave in our oldest daughter, who has turned from the path in just about every way. DD sees her sister and the very real consequences of her actions and knows she doesn't want to go there!
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I'm so sorry her sister is the example you get to use.
Examples of what not to do and the consequenes, are probably an important part of the discussion. We want them to look at actions with a critical, thinking, Catholic view. We don't want them to just accept what everyone does and have a 'live and let live' attitude. They can't control others but they can chose a different road in the interest of honor and glorifiying God.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Bridget
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lapazfarm wrote:
For our daughters I think in some ways it may be more difficult. At least our boys still have alot of examples in the world of being leaders and providers, though not as many as we would wish. For girls it is becoming increasingly difficult to find examples to hold up to them.
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It's true. I can't think right off of many good examples in literature or movies for girls. If they have intelligence they usually lack morals. I have to go back and find that thread about books for girls. There will be some good stuff there.
I don't know how this will hold up through the teen years, but Monica (almost 10) enjoys reading a lot of posts and blogs, pre-read by me. I can't think of better examples for girls that the women i know from the internet and in our homeschooling community. Intelligent, strong, feminine, and so good. When she is much older, someone like Courteny, whom she will never meet, but can know through her writing, would be a great mentor/example.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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StephanieA
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An option if they have to go to a secular college is to REALLY check out the professors. Professors can make all the difference in the world. Avoid reading the school newspaper. I have asked that my son never pick it up. A lot of it is trash. Some of the columns are rated R and X. Get involved in the Neumann Center - IF it is seriously Catholic (or like my sister) if you have the time to help it become even more orthodox. My son's classes and his transportation time (he lives at home) doesn't allow him to devote so much time there. He still is very involved with us religiously (Mass, lecturing, confession, etc. at our home parish).
Seriously consider CLEPS for those classes that you must take but stink to high heaven - and that the student will not major in. For example, if he will major in biology, he needs to begin at the bottom. But if it is not his major, have him CLEP. This takes a little organization in high school, but it has gotten my kids out of secular history, biology, human growth and development (the teachers were pathetically athestic), and a totally secular literature course. Those literature courses can be REAL problems for Catholics and morality.
My sister (who is 20) took at astronomy course where she literally defended the Church for 4 weeks straight. She researched the Galileo situation well and presented it in class as her "project". The teacher was none too pleased. I don't know if it effected her grade, but she is plucky and probably didn't care. She was on a mission!
I know she has also spoken up in several other classes on other issues.
Heck, my middle kids attend music theory classes at the college for grade school kids, and my 12 year-old came home in near tears last night. The teacher (whom I trusted totally) lectured on Strauss and how he was Catholic, married outside the church, and gave up his religion. Gee! Let's really give it to these kids early.
My solution was to call the teacher and my kids will opt out of composer night from now on. Next it will be Tchaikovsky's sex*al orientation 
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Nina Murphy
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Oh yes---- my beautiful, pure, innocent daughter is attending classes at the University 5 minutes away, Cal. State Univ. at Sacramento. It's not pretty. Even though she is attending for complicated family reasons, financial reasons, and for their Music Department, she still has to take core classes and walk throughout the extensive campus. My husband said that he has never experienced women's fashion choices like this walking through the campus with her...said it was impossible to avert his eyes after a while because it was everywhere---he would have caused an accident. He was in shock at WHY these young women were universally making an effort to expose their chests in such extreme ways....for STUDY.
Will pray for Courtney. Sigh....CAN we protect them from this larger world that they are eventually thrown into? Unless our children go directly into hermitages which is a rare vocation, this is what they're up against. And actually, it's insidious. It creeps in from family and from community starting younger and younger, even if you keep the TV and mags out. ????
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~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Martha
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Bridget...
You articulate very well how I am feeling about my 6th grade son and venturing down this road for the first time in my parenting career.
We all want to protect these dc, but I feel it must be balanced against preparing them too. It's a tight-rope.
These years when we have such a strong influence, and even some actual control if neccessary, quickly go by.
I'd like to take advantage of them to prepare him for those rocky years to come, in hopes they won't be quite so rocky.
Or at least he won't be shell-shocked by them and left with a shaky faith.
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StephanieA
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[QUOTE=Martha] Bridget...
These years when we have such a strong influence, and even some actual control if neccessary, quickly go by.
I'd like to take advantage of them to prepare him for those rocky years to come, in hopes they won't be quite so rocky.
Yes, but different kids will come up against totally different problems. IF you can be there for them....at the moment...it helps. Phones can help too for those who can't connect physically for a talk and when they are home, take them out alone at least once if possible.
We will never even begin to cover all the basis with our children. Plus, how much are our younger kids really ready to digest?
If we introduce some of these "sick" situations and problems at 14 or 15 when they aren't even ready to think about true solutions, are we really helping them to cope? Or giving them a less-stressful childhood - too much to worry about too soon. Many of these problems tend to be adult problems anyway.
"Things" like divorce, remarriage, homosexuality, etc. happen in some of our families already. We can't avoid it. Discuss these subjects when children are mentally and emotionally ready to deal with it. (For example, my 12 year old asked me last night all the details of my brother's marriages, and I knew she was ready for the details of which child belonged to which mom and why.)
But how do we prepare our older teens for a solidly Catholic, but distressed friend who just lost his mom and has a very distant father, who discusses suicide?
Could I have prepared him for this as a 15 year old? Probably not. But he knew I was there for him now and that I would be willing to discuss anything with him.
That, to me, is the MOST important thing....to keep an open avenue of conversation going.
With some kids this is going to be easier than with others. I struggle keeping it going with my 16 year old. He is much harder to open up to anyone.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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StephanieA
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More options for those of us who are unable to send our kids to a solidly Catholic college:
We can also encourage on-line courses from the university they are attending. By being on-line, students can avoid student influence. Some on-line courses "work", some don't. You miss the lecture/interaction aspect, but for some classes, this may be just as well  Plus the student can often work more at his own pace.
Secondly, freshmen are going to get the worst of the PC and usually the less-than-stellar professors. The upper level classes tend to get "more down to business". If they can sludge their way through freshmen seminar classes and some of the amoral universal studies courses, they will welcome the more sane upper level classes in their majors. Again, CLEPS or APs can help kids avoid some of these earlier classes.
I will agree that some of the clothes that the girls wear are outrageous. However, we are seeing a shift here. More and more girls are wearing skirts to class!
Last year my son wore khakis and blue dress pants everyday to class. But this year, he also wears jeans. Oh, well. He does have a point about ruining his good khakis in lab, but dress pants LOOK much nicer.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Bookswithtea
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Wonderful advice in so many posts here. I'm gleaning as much as possible, as my own ds is 13 now.
I was thinking that prayer and knowing your child well must come into play, too. We may feel led to allow some children more exposure than others, based on the Lord's leading. The dd who dreams of nothing but taking care of babies and being a mommy may do just fine at the local comm. college for some preschool ece units while living at home. Another child may be gearing up for spiritual battle in the world and needs to know more in order to "have an answer for the hope that lies within them."
All of this makes me realize I need to pray more for guidance with my children's vocations. Whoever said motherhood was easy was NOT a mother! 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Maddie
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Just a thought I had while reading this topic, we mothers (dads too)provide a beautiful home life for our children, keep them pure by sheilding them from bad peers, magazines, movies, music, etc. We make our homes beautiful and welcoming and all the other loving things we do for our children so that when they do go out into this ugly world full of temptation and sin they will remember that the good, the beautiful, and the true DOES exist no matter what ANYONE may tell them. They will know it in their hearts because they will have experienced it.
Just a hope I hold in my heart when I get discourged about my children one day having to deal with an ugly, cold world.
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~Maddie~
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Nina Murphy
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Thank you, Maddie, for this reminder!
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~~Nina
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and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Martha
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StephanieA wrote:
Yes, but different kids will come up against totally different problems. IF you can be there for them....at the moment...it helps. |
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I agree. I know I can't prepare them for everything and I have to take into account the individual child, but knowing what others have done or wish they had done can also be a real eye opening help.
This conversation is very informative to us moms gurding ourselves for the years ahead. 
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Martha
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Elizabeth
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I also think that college campuses (particularly if the child lives there) are not representative of "real life." Rarely in real life are we forced to live in such close quarters with people who might have very different values and priorities than we do. Very rarely in real life are we forced (because they are "required" courses) to listen to people who spout things we know not to be true and hwo grade us on our ability to spout it back. Instead of real life, I look at it more as baptism by fire into the world of adulthood...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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momwise
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Instead of real life, I look at it more as baptism by fire into the world of adulthood... |
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I was thinking of starting a thread about this very issue. I started thinking about this issue in relation to the rapidly changing world around us and how God may be preparing our dc to take their places in His plan.
How long should we stick with the status quo...high school, college, career, etc.?
We all know college is not for everyone but it seems like many 18 yr. old homeschoolers do have the graces to go into the "wolves den" and survive.
There are probably other dc who could "survive" but are not ready to lose that much innocence at age 18 or 19.
Then there are those that have lost innocence and faith and go into the world wanting much the same as everyone else (material goods, instant gratification, fun-fun-fun, etc.)
And many times I have wondered about the purpose of it all and what the world will be like when they get out and prepare to begin their careers. Catholics will no longer be able to practice pharmacology and possibly general medicine due to the lack of "concience exceptions" for the MAP and RU-486, etc. What else is going to change? And what is going to be new that we should be preparing our dc for? For instance, Corpus Christi college used to have a major in Chinese for the express purpose of sending missionaries into China.
What about the pro-life work world. I know Ave Maria is preparing graduates to go out and work in that field and change the world......it gives me goosebumps!
Well, there you go...I rambling and thinking aloud but not offering any solutions or answers. Do you have any thoughts?
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Philothea
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Bridget wrote:
Up until this year, I worked hard at protecting Kevin from anything ugly in our culture. I planned on him going to one of the good Catholic colleges. But as he hit 13 he has been showing a keen interest in world and Church events. He is ready to fight the battles. At least he thinks he is.
I realized that he needs to be armed to face this stuff whether he has a parish or a family to protect and guide one day. We probably can’t afford to send him to one of the good Catholic schools. Even there he may encounter some of these problems. Or, part of what Gods calls him to do will involve a secular school. We can’t know yet.
What I do know is that, for him, it’s time to prepare. Monday i let him read some articles on 9/11 to help him better understand what happened. I wouldn’t have considered that till this year. We recently had conversations about divorce and babies born out of marriage.
Right now I think discussing events and showing him how men of integrity handle themselves in tough /ugly situations. He has the examples of his dad,uncles, grandpa, the saints, and men from literature and movies.
He is getting some practice with a few minor situations in sports. We are slowly allowing him more and more access to the media. Always discussing.
I am mourning his childhood ending a little. But he is so ready to push on and work on being a man.
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God bless Kevin. I will pray for him. Our world needs strong Catholic young men to rise up and lead. Sounds like he's wanting to prepare.
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Marybeth
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Remember the intercession of St. Monica and St. Rita...these holy saints will help. I had 3 older siblings in college while I was still in elementary school. Their experiences really led to my Mom encouraging me to attend Franciscan University.
Universities have notoriously been the ones to promote radicalism at every level. God really blessed me with my time at FUS. I would have stood strong at a secular university, but it was tiring enough to defend in my faith so much in high school. Poor Jesus is so unpopular and all He does is love!! 
Praying for the teens of today....
Marybeth
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teachingmom
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Wow, Elizabeth, Courtney's blog entry is very eye opening! Dh and I had always hoped to send all of our children to our alma mater, Steubenville. (We have no illusions about paying for it ourselves, but dh and quite a few siblings funded their own way there, and we hoped it would all work out financially somehow.)
After the conversation here about Catholic campus ministries, and learning how good the campus ministry is now at my other (undergraduate) alma mater, William and Mary, dh and I had a conversation in which we entertained for the first time the idea that maybe some of our chilren would end up at a state school after all. Now that I read what Courtney wrote, I'm thinking once again that a good, solid Catholic college is the way to go.
By the way thanks for the link to Courtney's blog. My girls have always admired her. What a wonderful voice of faith and morals she is. As my older girls get a bit older and ready for her more mature topics, I might let them read her blog.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: For what are we preparing?
