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Patty
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| Posted: March 30 2005 at 1:47pm | IP Logged
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I'm wondering how much/what kinds of writing others have their teens do. Do you use a program you like? Do you require certain types of writing...persuasive, narrative, etc.? How much do they narrate and how much of that is written? I've been incorporating CM into our homeschool for quite a while now, but it seems I have the most trouble incorporating it into my teens' education. We do have some very lively and interesting discussions about religion, history, current events, etc. etc. I tend to fall back onto school-in-a-box more with the older ones...but then we're not really happy with that either. I always end up second-guessing myself and thinking there's a perfect answer!
Just wondering what others do.
God bless,
Patty
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Cindy
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| Posted: March 30 2005 at 7:24pm | IP Logged
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Hi Patty-
Elizabeth just posted on the main forum about Bravewriter. If you haven't seen it, Julie Bogart does a wonderful job showing how to create a lifestyle of writing. She is due to come out with a book just on teens soon.
Writing is part of our lives here. My boys are 11 and 14 and have been writing fictional stories for years. One of the best decisions we made was to do Mavis Beacon typing (SW typing program) for a bit every day and they have become very fast touch typers. I think this is so integral because they can get their thoughts on paper about as fast as they think of them, so the frustration factor is non-existent.
I see their writing following naturally from all the things they have read. I see traces of literature (CS Lewis, Redwall, Dickens, etc), comedy (Dave Barry, Scott Adams, Hank the Cowdog, comics pages), newspaper articles, magazines articles, websites, walkthroughs, emails, etc.. all coming into their writing. I think a wide exposure to all types of writing gives them the ideas and the format models.
We tried using Wordsmith for those models and it just didn't work for us, in a lesson format. Now we use it and other things for a model when they have a desire to write.
For example, my son wanted to write a complaint letter to a company. We dug through our Wordsmith and other reference books to find models. It worked for him so much better when he had the desire, then used the model to achieve his goal.
We have also tried other programs, but again, when we did the writing dried up. You will find a lot of this in Bravewriter, and much of what Julie writes about, we have seen in person!
I did use Voyages in English 5 a few years ago and the boys learned how to pump out a 5 line paragraph. It didn't take long and it is in their 'toolbox'- the concept of a topic sentence, development and conclusion. I just thought it would be nice to have that in case they need to write and get stuck. A nice formula.
I feel that if they continue to write on their own they will grow in vocabulary, grammar, spelling and confidence. Their grammar is very good and most of it has been learned from them coming to me and asking a question about their writing. We have spent some time 'naming' the terms in grammar, but this was generally after they had been using the words and understood their function. Spelling has been done with spell check and asking mom. Vocab development has been done also informally through reading and conversation.
On their own they have branched out into many types of writing- newspaper ads, letters, (complaints and thank you notes), etc.
My next thought is how they will learn to do persuasive essays. I have emailed with Julie at Bravewrite a bit on that and look forward to her book. In the mean time I think that as they continue growing into the wonderful arguementive stage and we keep have discussions... they will learn to build an arguement. My dh and I often ask them to put together a logical arguement and we try to model it for them as we have discussions. Current events give us a great place to do that.. especially with all the moral issues in the news today.
I forsee them writing persuasively via the discussions they are participating in now. The same thing happened with composition... they began with simple Cm narrations... where they learned to absorb information and the 'tell back'. Soon they began to put it on paper. I see the same thing happening with building an arguement- first orally, then naturally to paper.
I rarely require a formal narration, oral or written. I will ask their thoughts when we read together and our 'narrations' happen in the format of conversation. It is amazing to see what they really know when expressing opinions that have been formed after reading and absorbing information. I find that much richer than the formal narrations.
If you are having lively discussions.. it sounds like you are well on your way!
I hope this helps.. and look forward to your thoughts and others.. this is what has worked for us.
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Cindy in Texas
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Patty
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| Posted: March 31 2005 at 8:05am | IP Logged
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Hi Cindy,
Thanks so much for sharing what's worked and what hasn't in your family. I wholeheartedly agree with you about the keyboarding. We've used Mavis Beacon here, but we need more work with it. Also...five of our seven kids are still at home and we have one computer for all of us! I'm thinking we need to look for another used one...or two.
I've used Wordsmith and it doesn't work for us, either, if used as formal lessons. When we first began hsing (eons ago!) we were enrolled in a complete program and although the kids did write, I always thought it was stilted and odd. They were writing on assigned topics, not things they truly loved and were interested in. I learned my lesson there.
I've heard about Bravewriter and it intrigues me. I'll have to look into that.
Has anyone used Andrew Pudewa's IEW? I keep hearing about it, too, but haven't seen it. From what I can tell it isn't "canned lessons" but rather shows the teacher how to teach writing.
I have a couple who are reluctant writers. My 15yo has so many thoughts and opinions and is very verbal, but tenses up when presented with a blank piece of paper. She obsesses over the mechanics and wording everything just right. I tell her over and OVER not to worry...it's so easy to edit with a computer! But still she does. :::sigh::: She can write wonderfully...I just need to get her over the no-confidence hump. My up-and-coming 11yo had tremendous struggles learning to read, and is playing catch-up after seven months of vision therapy, which was incredibly helpful, but that's another story.
When I attend hsing support group meetings, I get the feeling that I'm the only one not using 36-week scripted lesson plans with a text book for everything. We do use texts, but often use them as resources or springboards.
Gotta scoot...kids wanting the computer! 
Patty
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juliecinci
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| Posted: March 31 2005 at 10:56am | IP Logged
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Hi Patty.
I've written some thoughts about teen writing on my blog:
Teen Writing
You can read the entries by clicking on the titles of these archived posts.
And my husband is now laying out my teen writing book. Woo-hoo! So we are closing in on a product.
Julie
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Cindy
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| Posted: March 31 2005 at 11:48am | IP Logged
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Patty wrote:
Also...five of our seven kids are still at home and we have one computer for all of us! I'm thinking we need to look for another used one...or two.
Has anyone used Andrew Pudewa's IEW? I keep hearing about it, too, but haven't seen it. From what I can tell it isn't "canned lessons" but rather shows the teacher how to teach writing.
I have a couple who are reluctant writers. My 15yo has so many thoughts and opinions and is very verbal, but tenses up when presented with a blank piece of paper. She obsesses over the mechanics and wording everything just right. I tell her over and OVER not to
Patty |
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Hi Patty!
I was nodding through your post!
We actually have 2 computers for the 4 of us.. and it is wonderful. They are both in the same room and my boys will spend time on there emailing and doing chat rooms (private.. only them in it) -- right as they sit in the same room. And, they can write stories at the same time. Sometimes they write and don't let the other see until it is finished then laugh and laugh. The computers were definitly a GREAT investment. It really opens up the atmospehre to more writing- all kinds!
Even used ones would be fine. .just with word on it and internet access if needed. No power needed there.
I have only had a small intro to IEW. I liked the idea of approaching writing differently--- but it was done in a classroom setting, so my boys didn't enjoy it.
Your daughter sounds like she has a bit of perfectionism in her (very common..) and hard because it tends to make us not want to start. That blank piece of paper can be very intimidating. Maybe the computer screen would be more friendly. When you look into Bravewriter, you will see the idea of 'freewriting'. I bet this would help her, too.
Maybe also encourage her talking and story telling. That is composition, too. Lots of practice there will prepare the way to putting it on paper. This is very cmish. :)
We took one of the online courses and my boys were braced  for a yucky "Please tell about your favorite pet." kind of assignment. Instead she had them freewriting about *anything*. It took them a while they could write about anything! It was like they were waiting for the other shoe to drop... when will the fun end and the assignments start? The fun didn't end...
The first class they both wrote about nintendo. Their love. The second class one wrote about the director of Star Wars and his influence on movies today and my other son wrote about President Bush's performance in the 2004 debates. I guess my point here is that they would not branch out into more traditional subjects until they had all the time freewriting about what they cared about first. (nintendo). Once they had fun, gained confidence and cared about their writing, then they found they cared about other subjects and would venture out there, too.
Writing so often has negative feelings associated with it.. I can understand the attitude of 'why try?'
I do recommend the Bravewriter classes, too. I learned a lot from them- probably more than my sons. It might be a good jump-start for your daughter, too, to see that there is a different world of writing out there that can be fun. Or just look at Julie's site and let your dd try some freewriting on what she cares about.
Sorry this is so long.....
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Cindy in Texas
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Cindy
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| Posted: March 31 2005 at 11:52am | IP Logged
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juliecinci wrote:
Hi Patty.
I've written some thoughts about teen writing on my blog:
Teen Writing
You can read the entries by clicking on the titles of these archived posts.
And my husband is now laying out my teen writing book. Woo-hoo! So we are closing in on a product.
Julie |
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Hi Julie!
Patty- yes, check out her teen writing posts on the blog. Excellent- I have the printed and filed in my Bravewriter binder...
Good luck with your book, Julie! Do you take advanced orders?
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Cindy in Texas
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Leonie
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| Posted: April 02 2005 at 6:22pm | IP Logged
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Hi!
I have found that real writing is what appeals to my teens.
By real writing, I mean writing that is not done simply as a writing assignment but for a real purpose.
For example, writing in email or on an internet forum.
Looking for essay writing competitions, on topics or areas in which my teens are interested - last year, two of my sons wrote essays for a youth political party competition, on topics of politics that are close to their heart. One wrote a script and entered a youth scriptwriting competition.
I also look for opportunities to write related to their current passions - writing book reviews or film reviews on Amazon, for exmaple. Writing for a gaming magazine.
I have been interested to see how the boys' writing has developed, as they become involved in writing for a purpose and with an interest.
Leonie in Sydney
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juliecinci
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| Posted: April 02 2005 at 7:37pm | IP Logged
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Great suggestions Leonie.
It's true, too, that today there are more real writing opportunities than ever with the Internet.
Julie
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Patty
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| Posted: April 04 2005 at 7:26am | IP Logged
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Leonie--
I understand what you are saying. My almost 16yo dd does write e-mail but I would never read any of that, unless for some reason she asked me to. She never has. I also doubt that she would choose to enter any kind of writing competition. It would take MUCH persuasion from me.
However...she has been so moved by the death of our beloved pope. I am going to suggest that she make a notebook on John Paul II. This would be something very close to her heart. She also loves St. Maximilian Kolbe and loves reading about the Holocaust and the work of Christians to help the Jews. I could see many rabbit trails developing from this.
Patty
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Patty
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| Posted: April 04 2005 at 7:30am | IP Logged
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Julie--
Thank you so much for sharing your Bravewriter web site! I checked it out and we actually did the Friday freewrite with the basket of household objects. It was a big hit. My almost 16yo dd chose a key and wrote about a young woman who had had a difficult life but was now unlocking the door to her first home. She wrote of this young woman's gratitude to God for what He had provided.
However...the story was filled with many generalities and few details. She TOLD what was happening instead of SHOWING it...instead of painting vivid word pictures of what was happening. I'm debating whether or not to point this out to her.
It was a good exercise, though, and did get her writing.
Patty
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juliecinci
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| Posted: April 04 2005 at 12:00pm | IP Logged
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Hi Patty!
Glad the freewrite was a success.
For now, I would let it be as it is.
Do several more freewrites over the next few weeks and then pull them all out and see if she'd like to revise any of them. That would be the time to talk about how to improve that story about the key if she is interested in it.
It is difficult to learn the difference between "show" and "tell" intially. Our visual culture means that our kids can *see* everything clearly inside. They don't realize their writing doesn't always show it in such a way that the reader can see/experience it too.
I have one exercise on my website (Keen Observation) that helsp kids to learn how to observe an object in more depth. You might like to try that with her and see what happens!
Keen Observation Exercise
Julie
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Teens and Writing
