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time4tea
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| Posted: May 28 2006 at 1:53pm | IP Logged
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Hi Everyone,
How important do you all feel it is to have someone other than yourself and your family/friends review your older student's writing? By this I mean, do you feel it is necessary to enroll in a curriculum/program/course for this purpose, or not? My dh (who is peeking over my shoulder!), keeps telling me that we don't need to pay extra for such a service, but sometimes I worry that I will get "lazy" and not critique the work to the degree that I should, or that I will be too critical. With our oldest just about to enter high school, this is really becoming more of an issue for me as I look towards homeschooling him during high school.
Thanks everyone for your input and blessings to you all!
~ Tea
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Lissa
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| Posted: May 28 2006 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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You know, I have wondered if there would be any market for a paper-critiquing service for homeschoolers. Not a full-fledged writing class, but an inexpensive per-paper fee for looking at a student's writing and offering suggestions for revision. My dh suggested that parents of high-school students especially might find it helpful to have someone pass a critical eye over essays or research papers that the parent had assigned. So I'll be interested to see what kind of response you get here!
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Lissa
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time4tea
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| Posted: May 28 2006 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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Lissa,
Yes, that's it exactly! I would love it if something like that existed. We are in an umbrella school here where we live, so I don't need a transcript or anything from the schools/programs, and I don't need anyone to actually do the teaching of how to write, because I feel as if I already have enough resources for that. I just want someone to review some writing from time to time.
Blessings to you!
~Tea
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Mary G
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| Posted: May 28 2006 at 7:23pm | IP Logged
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Seems quite doable -- I would be interested in helping to review, but I wouldn't know how much to charge.....
What seems reasonable?
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Kelly
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| Posted: May 28 2006 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
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There is that group, WriteGuide, that you can conscript to read and critique your dc's papers. I believe you can hire a WriteGuide instructor by the month, by nine-months or by the year, though not by the paper (but I like that idea!). One of my dc has used their services, and I will say they are VERY prompt and responsive. I don't think they are as picky as I am (which may be a good thing, one of the reasons I "signed on" with them!), but they do a pretty good job. You can also ask for a Catholic instructor, which we did. The fellow we were assigned is a conservative Catholic...and a Phd! On the whole, 
Kelly in FL
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Mary G
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| Posted: May 29 2006 at 4:59am | IP Logged
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Kelly wrote:
There is that group, WriteGuide, that you can conscript to read and critique your dc's papers. I believe you can hire a WriteGuide instructor by the month, by nine-months or by the year, though not by the paper (but I like that idea!). One of my dc has used their services, and I will say they are VERY prompt and responsive. I don't think they are as picky as I am (which may be a good thing, one of the reasons I "signed on" with them!), but they do a pretty good job. You can also ask for a Catholic instructor, which we did. The fellow we were assigned is a conservative Catholic...and a Phd! On the whole,
Kelly in FL |
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Kelly,
I was a consultant for them this past year. WriteGuide is a wonderful idea and I like the way he has things set up. WriteGuide is set up to teach the writing basics not just edit. I think the difference here would be that it would be an ad hoc, on a needs-only basis rather than 30 days' worth.
A great thing about WriteGuide is it's run by Catholics (who, I believe homeschool) and really encourages Catholic homeschoolers to sign-on.
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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StephanieA
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| Posted: May 29 2006 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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and I will say they are VERY prompt and responsive. I don't think they are as picky as I am (which may be a good thing, one of the reasons I "signed on" with them!),
We signed up with WriteGuide for 30 days, but unfortunately after 2 weeks we quit. I was hoping to hand over the editing to someone else, but it didn't turn out to be quite as easy as that. My oldest son (16 at the time) turned in his outline and they OKed it, but in my opinion, his ideas were not organized enough for a 5 paragraph essay. But I said nothing. After 2 weeks the paper was finished. Overall they corrected a few grammar mistakes, but the paper didn't flow at all. My son knew the paper was pretty bad and was frustrated that they hadn't suggested something else. I sat down with him and talked through some changes in his outline and exactly where he wanted to go with the paper. What took me 15 minutes would have taken them a lot longer over the internet.
I am not blaming WriteGuide so much as the medium. WriteGuide was very responsive and positive. Purely editing at the end of the process would be easy enough, but to oversee the writing process for a child over the internet didn't work for us. This year I have hired a English student from the university once a week to edit my second hs son's shorter papers and quick write essays. They will meet for an hour once a week. I think talking through where you are going with a paper is especially important for kids who find it difficult to get their ideas on papers (my sons are like this). I think this is hard to explain over the internet in an email.
An outside source to evaluate papers is a good idea. I would have my kid's overedit their papers. But my sister OKs her son's papers in an effort to encourage him, but his papers are not hs work. Neither approaches are very good. A reputable outside source is helpful in these instances.
Kelly, I would be interested to learn if you have had this problem with structure over the internet. Personally,I would find it difficult to correct structure in an email format. Grammar and punctuation mistakes would be easy enough.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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marihalojen
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| Posted: May 29 2006 at 8:35am | IP Logged
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Peer editing is a great solution that is used frequently in elem. through College. In fact, my college had a 24 hour computer room with students available to review/edit any paper for any college course.
Could something similar be set up using the Teen Forums here at 4 Real Learning? Occasionally I see essays posted there, but I don't know if they are there for 'publishing' purposes or editing purposes...I could be suggesting something that is already available!
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Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
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ALmom
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I don't think it is necessary in elementary. I can do that as long as I do keep some consistency in writing going.
By middle school, I think I'd like to have a regular editor, at least by 8th grade. I find my dc like the idea of someone other than mom reviewing papers, it gives them confidence in the comments (I know what is and is not well written but don't know specifically what to suggest in order to improve it) and it also keeps us all on track in terms of not letting this slip. I have difficulty keeping up with some of mine in terms of how quickly they read and write papers. One year my dd wrote all her essays for the year before I even got to grading the first one. I feel we lost something here as I expected to grade the first and then dd use this learning from the previuous assignment to improve the next essay. I also think we all benefit from a variety of input and discussion over our ideas. The discussion part is what we have missed most in homeschooling. We have floundered with a variety of approaches to try and fill the gap.
We have tried to get some sort of coop going which has been largely unsuccessful as most of those who would have been interested had to utilize another cover school to meet their families' needs and participation in anything seems to be inconsistent here. We have attempted to go it on our own and this has worked OK but with some major gaps. We signed up with an English tutor which helped in the discussion aspect, a different input and the auro of confidence that the professional teacher provided (I am not an English person and feel out of my element in a lot of aspects here). The disadvantages of this were that reading choices were not always to my liking, worldview was more Protestant and the expectations were much lower than mine. It also gets expensive. For one year, it was a great respite to try and fill in some gaps. For a regular solution, it would not work. We have settled on signing up with Kolbe even though we do not need their transcript services. It has worked for us because I have liked having their lesson plans and paper topic ideas and some idea of where they expect dc to go - even though I heavily modify. I signed up for the grading services this year for my highschooler after having simply had them review my older dd paper's this year. I did have to request particular information - ie I would review/attempt to grade dd paper's (but could do it quickly as a rough draft) and then ask about my uncertainties. For example: I might point out that my dd was using stilted intros and conclusions. How would I suggest she improve to seem less repetitive and more interesting. I also felt she was weak on specifics in content area papers while she had very strong writing skills on those areas involving more personal essays. They gave me specific pointers, rewrote portions as suggestions and gave us something to discuss. It still did not solve my time crunch, but it did give me some confidence in being a helper to my dd and it kept us on a regular schedule to try and get as much input as possible. I could call on them when I hadn't finished reading a book or didn't know details of the time period and didn't have time to look it up. It is a bit expensive to sign up, but for us it has been worth it for now.
It would be more ideal if we had something local.
Janet
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StephanieA
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that is used frequently in elem. through College. In fact, my college had a 24 hour computer room with students available to review/edit any paper for any college course.
Some of my college son's professors will not even LOOK at papers from students unless they have a slip from the Writing Center saying that they have had their papers peer or teacher edited there. Saves a lot of red ink, I suppose :)
This is actually where I can up with my tutor for the fall. Our problem was that my oldest 2 are not eager writers. OK, OK, they would rather eat raw liver. So, it was like pulling teeth to get them to edit and even finish papers in high school. Another option is to check local high schools. Some teachers there would be willing to grade English papers for some extra money. My sister-in-law heads the English department at our local Catholic prep school and knows her stuff, but it became too "embarrasing" after Aunt Ann gave her unbiased opinion of my oldest son's paper on St. Lawrence.
Papers have got to rank up there as my most time-consuming endeavor. Sometimes I buy a pint of Ben & Jerry's to just get through a 5 paragraph essay with one of the kids, although I personally love to write.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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Victoria in AZ
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Lissa wrote:
| You know, I have wondered if there would be any market for a paper-critiquing service for homeschoolers. Not a full-fledged writing class, but an inexpensive per-paper fee for looking at a student's writing and offering suggestions for revision. |
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Yes, yes, me, me, over here with my hand up 
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Your sister in Christ,
Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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jackiemomof7
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Me too!! Me too!! Lissa are you thinking of offering a service? No pressure but it would be nice just to have someone else to look over their papers and give their input.
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Jackie wife to Jim for 27!! years, proud army mom of Chris(25),Chef Matthew(24) and Sister Grace of Benedectines (21),Joshua(19),Nicholas(17),Jaymee(15), Elizabeth(13) and 2 in Heaven.Grandma to 3!
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Kelly
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| Posted: May 30 2006 at 12:31am | IP Logged
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Hmmmm, I wonder if the challenge you experienced with WriteGuide, Stephanie, was maybe your teacher, compounded by the challenge of Literary Guidance over the net?! Although we ran into a little of that, difficulty in conveying to the student about "flow", that is, it really *was* something he tried to address. I agree, it can indeed be challenging to do it back and forth over the net. Maybe it was luck of the draw for us, and we just got lucky, but the WriteGuide teacher we were assigned really did do a pretty good job guiding. Not as good as Mom, of course  , or Mary G. , but pretty good. But I agree with you that the process is indeed daunting-be it face-to-face OR over the internet. PS I like the Ben & Jerry's approach to editing!
Kelly in FL
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Kelly
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PPS Maybe this Mom should get a few editing lessons herself after all those horrible run-on sentences! Yikes. 
Kelly, clearly in need of editing in FL
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Someone to review dc's writing
