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cheesehead mom
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| Posted: March 18 2013 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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How much time/energy do you spend in helping your high schooler discern their future--vocation college ect.? My oldest of 7 children (so yes he is out first to go through this) is a young junior. Up until now our goal has been to do our best to prepare him for whatever vocation God has in mind for him--emphasising daily prayer/discerment as well as academically prepare him for college if that is where he is headed. He is doing an online ACT prep course, we have talked about majors and vocation and about trying to go as debt-free as possible. But, honestly some high schoolers are very gung ho--researching the schools/schoalrships and degrees on their own...and others are not. And being married to someone who went to college late I am okay with that too. So, how much do you get involved--researching thier potential majors and school and such and how much do you let them do that? Any thoughts anyone?
Laura in Wi (where Spring starts next week but we are getting snow today:)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 18 2013 at 11:01am | IP Logged
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I'm not quite there.. but rigt now my plan is to let my kids lead on this. It way to easy for "help" to be seen as "expectation" and I don't want them to feel like they need to do things my way.
Plus I really don't want to push going to college as the right answer. It costs way to much to be going to college and possibly into debt just because "it's the thing to do". There are certainly options of staying at home and doing online classes and the like that won't break the bank so it's not like we're against education. But that we're pushing don't spend the money without a plan. 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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cheesehead mom
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| Posted: March 18 2013 at 11:08am | IP Logged
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Totally agree Jodie. It is not for everyone but now that he has discerned he wants to go there are so many options out there--he has taken a CLEP test and we are looking at junior college classes for senior year. We have pushed debt-free college a lot if they do decide they want to go to school beyond high school. There are still a lot of variables and I am finding it challenging to know how much to 'push' and how much to sit back if you know what I mean. I spoke to a prent this last week who is doing all of the scholarship huning and college process for her son and I was not feeling called to that but it did make me wonder you know how much we need to be involved as parents. Thanks for the response.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 18 2013 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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ah.. ok, you're further along that path.. missed that.
How about... if they're adult enough to go off to college and be responsible for thier classes and living on their own (more or less) then they should be able to figure it out mainly on their own. BUT there is often a time constraint, so I'd also be willing to help figure it out by finding information but I'd want it to be a collaborative effort. And I'd want them to take the lead. I'd want to remind them of things they can look for and might ask if they want help finding stuff, or with filling out paperwork. But they'd still need to do most of it. What I'd want to avoid doing is going out myself and finding all the information according to what I think and filling it all out for them to send in. This is their life and they should be the one directing it. But there's always times to look to someone older, someone who's btdt, for help. It's a sorta fine wobbly line. But help without taking over, direction but not decision.. things like that.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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brabec7
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| Posted: March 18 2013 at 12:09pm | IP Logged
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Hi,
I have one at Ave. We have found most parents have a view of fostering independence through this process. The problem that we have seen is that most kids do not know that they do not know.... This is such a big decision that I can not help but think guidance and help is important to avoid mistakes that cost in time and money.
I would find schools and have her look at them just like a guidance counselor. Then she would take her list and call them. Talk to the admissions as well as financial dept. The interview questions we helped her develop. We would visit a few nearby colleges to practice being able to speak in such situations.
One thing we did is treat it like a class. First was to research different interests in careers. Search salary, education requirements, shadow professionals, and job growth. There had to be deadlines because life can slip by so quickly. So she had an idea of options.
School choice was done with a spreadsheet. Cost to go, loans, and then how long it will take to pay it back. Very eye opening process...
Now scholarship search is tedious at best. Most high schools do have this information already available. So being the counselor in our school, I researched and gave the info. She did all the work.
The common application is so helpful. I think she was able to apply to 13 schools. Most were free apps when done on the site. This helped her negotiate with Ave for scholarship funds. It is a great way to see what you can get in scholarships.
I just have seen so many of her friends without a guidance counselor and getting lost in the process. It can be such a great lesson in so many ways! :) Blessings, Lisa
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mooreboyz
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| Posted: March 20 2013 at 6:41am | IP Logged
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Laura,
We are here too. My dh thinks I should let our son figure this out on his own;but, I feel that I at least need to play the role of guidance counselor, letting him know when testing is, signing him up, getting him prep materials.
I have Also given my son little assignments like, "pick 3 colleges you may want t o attend and research their requirements" and "look through the majors offered and think about what specifically would be interesting and valuable to you." This kind of research has helped my son see that some schools require foreign language, for example while others do not. He has also looked through the classes in a business major and wondered why you would pay for that when you can easily learn all of it for free online. In helping him my dh and I give him examples of things we encountered and will be there to help him through some of the major decisions.
We're not quite at the scholarship time yet; but, I've seen that our high school's website has a link to available scholarships...I think I'll just have him go there when it is time.
I'm having some fears about extra curiculars as our school doesn't let homeschoolers join in on anything...they are feeling the financial crunch and want to force homeschoolers to join their at home option. So, I'm trying to think of things he can do to offer some nonacedemic things to his resume. He already plays piano for the seniors. Maybe that's enough. I don't know.
So, I, like you, am going through this for the first time and probably thinking much more about it than I should be. But I can't help it. I feel this is the final step in the journey of homeschooling...getting him off to either a job or a university.
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Jackie
7 boys - 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 years
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SallyT
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| Posted: March 20 2013 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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Yes, I think "guidance counselor" is a good description of the role I've played. I gave my oldest daughter copies of The Newman Guide and the ISI college guide, so that she could research schools, which she did on her own. I helped her sign up for the SAT and ACT and marshalled prep resources, because frankly, in most instances, those scores are what will generate scholarship money. I also sent her links to scholarship clearinghouse sites like Fastweb, but although she did apply for a number of those sponsored scholarships, she didn't get any of them. I also helped her arrange to visit campuses, which was key. She knew clearly what her frontrunners were after spending time on campus.
We also had serious talks about things like graduating debt-free. Her college choices were limited from the outset to colleges in tuition-exchange networks to which Belmont Abbey, where my husband teaches, belongs, so although she did receive scholarship offers from every school she applied to, the tuition exchange has been by far the better deal. That was a very useful focus -- it meant she didn't waste her time looking at or getting attached to the idea of colleges she couldn't in reality have afforded to attend.
Meanwhile, my current high-schooler wants to go to West Point, so although he's on top of things he needs to do and very self-driven, I have pointed him toward resources. For example, we haven't had access to organized sports, and he had been running and competing in a few 5K races on his own, but I discovered and persuaded him to sign up for a training course at our local Y for the Spartan mud/obstacle race, which he's running on Saturday. Through that class, he's met up with a local running group who are training for a sprint triathlon, so now he's doing that. So when the time comes, we will have something to show as a sport in which he has "lettered."
Because we have access to college classes through my husband's job, we've also arranged for him to be let in to things like biology and German, even though he's technically too young for dual enrollment. And we'll point him to AP and CLEP exams as needed.
Other things he does on his own -- through Boy Scouts he became aware of the soup-kitchen ministry which operates a couple of blocks from our house, so now, on days when he's home, he goes over to serve lunch there. And he volunteers as a catechetical assistant in our parish faith formation program. So there's a lot I don't do -- if I were having to stand over him, saying, "You really need to do sports! You really need to do community service," then I don't think he'd be a viable candidate for what he wants to do.
I have observed that even a self-motivated kid needs *some* guidance and support through this process, because it is kind of complicated, especially the first time around. College isn't for everyone, obviously, but it is valuable on a number of levels for a lot of people, and I think you don't want to be too fatalistic about it, or to leave your child to figure it all out himself, on top of his studies. The typical high-school kid's knowledge of the way things work is inevitably going to be really limited, and he doesn't have the framework of experience even to think of how to find out about financial aid, for example. The more you can educate yourself about what's out there, what the base requirements are, and what the whole process entails, the more you can judiciously point your child to information and resources, so that he can take ownership. I am very much not a helicopter parent for my teenagers/college students, but I don't think I can leave this process entirely up to them.
Sally
eta: I realize I'm talking more about things my current high-schooler is doing in the course of *school,* which of course we're guiding, but having graduated one child, I find that I'm better at thinking three moves ahead, like a chess player, and seeing how the things he's doing -- some on his own, some with my guidance -- are already, in 9th grade, part of his progress towards college. He's a very good, motivated kid with a vision of what he wants to do, but I still have to put some things in his path. As we get closer to the actual application process, I will continue to do this with regard to specifically application-related matters.
Also, as a child develops an interest in a particular college or set of colleges, it's important that we participate some in that interest, because from our parental vantage point, some things may jump out that our student misses. I personally know kids who have missed entire years of college -- or started at least a year later than they might have -- because they and their parents didn't know that there was a deadline (in the fall of senior year) for several *very* generous scholarship programs at the Abbey, for which they were eligible and which would have made all the difference in their being able to afford to come. I know kids who have had to delay college entrance because they didn't get around to taking the SAT by fall of their senior year, and nobody was lighting a fire under them. God can make good things happen out of experiences like this, and maybe something like this is a useful wakeup call to a kid who's not paying attention, but having to sit out an extra year just because you missed a deadline seems like an awfully heavy penalty for a kid to have to bear, who might otherwise be ready to move on to the next stage of his life.
Sorry to go on so long (I always do!). But we have been through this from both the parental angle *and* from the college-faculty/involved in scholarship process angle, and it just really is hard to see otherwise good and well-prepared candidates, of precisely the caliber the college wants to attract (good Catholic homeschooled kids, in other words), miss the boat because they didn't figure out the right details in time on their own.
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cheesehead mom
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| Posted: March 20 2013 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so much for all of these great responses/ideas. If anyone has any spreadsheet/word document they put together to help guide their students or any other resources--books/websites...that they want to share I am sure others would appreciate it too.
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Martha
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| Posted: April 01 2013 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
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I'm very involved. Bottom line is they have no idea how ignorant they are and we will be the ones helping them financially.
My boys say they're happy with my help and are shocked at what their classmates are dealing with solo.
I don't think that means I know what another parent should do, but we're happy so far. :)
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Martha
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stacykay
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| Posted: April 02 2013 at 10:07am | IP Logged
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We did a spreadsheet of sorts- it's a big poster board with all the schools down the side, their tuition, room and board, other fees, total cost, scholarship money, adjusted total, distance from home, size of the school, ending with pro and con columns.
When our 2nd ds went off to school, he bypassed one that was close (just over an hour away,) for one in PA. The cost for both had been the same, but we hadn't figured the distance and travel costs. Gas, Speedpass for the turnpike, food, and occasional overnight lodging added up FAST!
Also, the FAFSA will be something that you will need to fill out for dc.
I would also check out the local public and private high school websites, if you are looking for basic "how-to" information. Almost all of them around us have a portion under their counseling department with info on how to pick schools, apply to them, apply for scholarships, etc. Here is a link to our local public schools counseling site, and if you scroll down, there are various links for info on NCAA eligibility, college application step-by-step (lots of info on discerning course of study and how to choose school,) and sites to search public and private schools to line up interest and costs, etc.
As far as how much to do...well, in all honesty, our oldest ds was ... a slug... when it came to picking a school.  He definitely has an aptitude for higher education, wanted to go, but we just couldn't find a way to "light a fire" under him. He ended up going to the university that sent him one of those letters that acknowledged his academic success, and added onto it, "if you reply to us, you are in!" Well, that made it easy for him. NO hard work on apps or essays, just a simple, yep!, I'm in! And, funny thing, it turned out to be a great school for him.
Our next was driven by sports, so we had to go and visit, meet coaches, etc. And now, #3, is very gung-ho, and has visited...9 different colleges, with 4 more stops before the May 1 deadline (he is a senior.) He is very academic, so that is fueling his search.
I think #3 learned a lot, too, by watching #1 and #2. I am hoping #4,5,and 6, will follow #3's example!
Oh, one more thing, this summer, between jr. and sr. year would be a great time to research and write all those essays for scholarships that can be found on-line and locally. Many may be "only" $100, here and there, but those can really add up and are very helpful!
Prayers for your ds in his search. It sure sounds as those he is more motivated that many I've run across!
In Christ,
Stacy in MI
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Angel
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| Posted: July 20 2013 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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This thread was ongoing the week I had a baby, so I'm finding it a little late, but just wanted to say -- very helpful, y'all. My oldest is also a rising junior and doesn't seem to be very motivated about researching colleges... although he does *want* to go to college. So we're moving into the research assignments phase, too, I think. I don't want to repeat my own college application experience in which my parents and my guidance counselors left me almost completely alone to get through the researching and application process... with somewhat disastrous results (all of which turned out to be for the best, I can say now, but at the time -- disastrous). My husband also had no help and had no idea he could have gone anywhere but a state school. So we do want to be more involved parents, but it's tough sometimes to figure out where the line is between guidance and pushiness. Kind of a delicate thing with a 16/17 year old, I think.
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks! 
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Angela
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Three Plus Two
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: July 23 2013 at 1:26pm | IP Logged
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I missed this because I was planning my daughter's wedding!
I think that giving no help or support to a student who wants to attend college is abdicating parental responsibility. Telling a student to "go to college" without concrete support would be like telling me to "fix the broken car." Not happening, or at least, not happening well.
To do the student's work for him or her is risky because it can lead to a parent's agenda instead of what God is calling the student to do. When a parent is afraid that their student will fail, doing everything in their power to prevent that, the student will be weak. The student will be set up for failure when mom and dad can no longer do the work.
Dave and I do our best to be responsible, supportive, and helpful in a way that is strengthening to the student and advocates for them in the big world. I play the role of counselor, standing by to guide but not do for them. My husband plays the role of bodyguard  standing by our student's side in the big world when necessary. We share the paperwork.
I absolutely, positively, stay away from parents (especially mothers) who are in a hyper-anxious do, do, do state about their child's high school years and college goals. Right now, my incoming high school senior wants to go to college and play baseball. I cannot describe to you the frenzy of parental political maneuvering that goes on! No thank you very much  If I listened to all that angst, I would be completely freaked out! Since my daughter graduated college, I'm more convinced than ever that God's plan is perfect, not any anxious mother's plan. So, our family works together as best as we can, we ask for help, and we try to keep our peace.
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: How involved to get in college hunt?
