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Topic: High School Western Civilization course

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MarilynW
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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 7:42pm \| IP Logged

Please share any resources you have used for Western Civilization. (history and literature combined)

My daughter did a fairly traditional 4 year cycle of history and literature for high school. However my boys are interested in doing Western Civilization I (Creation to approx. 1500) and then Western Civilization II.(1500 to present)for Grades 9 and 10. I am trying to find a history spine and then choose a few good books from the Great Books. Whilst my daughter read extensively from the Great Books (eg the Iliad, Odyssey, Herodotus, Thucydides and more in one semester) I do not think the boys want to deal with so much reading

For history spines I am looking at the Warren Carroll books which my daughter used, but I also like Light to the Nations which is written for middle/high. I also wonder about the Spielvogl text.

For Lit - I am thinking of using study guides such as Ignatius Critical editions, Memoria Press guides etc for the works that I select. Or maybe Questions for The Thinker guides

I am also thinking of using church history resources such as Didache History of the Church, How The Catholic Church built Western Civilization, 10 Dates That Every Catholic Should Know etc.

I would love to hear your thoughts - and also if you know of any online classes for Western Civ.

Thanks so much.

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SallyT
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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 8:34pm \| IP Logged

We do a big Western Civ cycle all the way through high school: ancient & classical in 9th, medieval/Renaissance/early modern in 10th, New World/US in 11th, and kind of a potpourri in 12th . . .

I do use Carrol's Founding of Christendom for my 9th-grade spine, as well as Plutarch's Lives, when we get to the Greeks and Romans. We also use the Teaching Company's Foundations of Western Civilization lecture series (Dr. Thomas F.X. Noble of Notre Dame), which is very good. We aim to cover creation/early mythology through the early Church in 9th.

Alongside this, this year my 9th-er is doing the Didache Understanding the Scriptures and Werner Keller's The Bible as History for religion.

Our lit texts are:
Great Myths of the World/Padraic Colum
The Cat of Bubastes or other Egyptian-themed historical fiction (Eloise Jarvis McGraw)
David of Jerusalem/Louis de Wohl
selection of Psalms
The Iliad
The Odyssey
Antigone
The Crito (short Plato! enough for 9th grade!)
The Aeneid
Julius Caesar (gotta get in the Shakespeare)
The Restless Flame/de Wohl
selections from the Confessions

For 10th, I have used How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization as a spine, plus continuing the Foundations of Western Civ lectures from the year before. I have not used other the Warren Carroll books thus far, but might for next year.

I actually forget what my first 10th grader did for religion; I may have my next one do church history, which again would dovetail with our historical period.

Lit texts (I'm revising what I did last time as I write, so this is kind of off-the-cuff):
Beowulf and other Anglo-Saxon literature (I love this period and spend a long time on it!)
Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight
selected Canterbury Tales
early sonnets
Shakespeare: Macbeth (and maybe one other play, if time)
metaphysical poets
Paradise Lost
(last time I didn't get farther than this . . . still trying to figure out the pace for this year)

Last time in 11th I opted for a U.S. literature text (Glencoe, I think) and picked selections chronologically, many of which also worked well as primary source reading for history. We also read Song at the Scaffold to highlight revolutions which did not go as well as our own did . . . I haven't found a U.S. history spine that I like yet.

And then in 12th, last time we used Anthony Esolen's Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization (which would be a good mom-read to accompany a W.C. course, even if you don't assign it for your kids) as a spine and went back and read more intense things, and more world literature, rather than just English literature, as referenced in the Esolen book: more philosophy, Dante, King Lear, Romantic poets . . . I forget now! I also used an old anthology that I picked up off a freebie table: The World's Great Catholic literature, arranged chronologically.

Last time, we did the Esolen book and other reading as a semester-long course in the fall; in the spring we did an intensive poetry study, and my daughter wrote a senior thesis on an historical topic suggested by her reading from the fall. I don't know what we'll do next time around.

So, I don't know if anything in my 4-year plan speaks to your 2-year plan, but we have thus far really enjoyed our chronological study. And I do very much like doing literature and history combined -- it makes sense from both standpoints. An era's literature is its imagination, there for you to see; literature is a creature of tradition, and writers are always speaking to the tradition which formed them, so it makes sense for a reader to understand that tradition.

Also, lots of great literature is available in high-quality retellings, graphic-novel form, etc, if that's helpful. Especially in the first two years of high school, I tend to care more that they know the great narratives and who's who, than that they slog through some endless Victorian translation of Homer. By junior and senior year I'm expecting engagement with "real" and challenging work, and even before that, they're certainly increasingly getting a taste of the real thing. But if you have a child who's just going to shut down when confronted by Beowulf,for example, then go for whatever will make the story go down and be memorable!

I hope this helps! I'm currently retooling this whole program for my second child, so it's much on my mind. It helps me to think it out more, so thanks for that!

Sally

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MarilynW
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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 9:10pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for your thoughts Sally.

I am thinking of my boys doing the following:

9th Western Civ 1 history and lit
10th Western Civ 2 history and lit
11th US History history and lit
12th US Govt/Consitutional Law/Economics with British Lit

though your 4 year plan is attractive too.

I wish I could find some ready made curriculum for my plan with essay questions etc. I have looked at all the major curriculum providers and not seen anything that fits what we want. I think I am just tired out - esp with my first senior going through the college thing.

I agree with you on trying to find a good US History spine - my daughter used Patriot's History of the US and liked it, but I am not sure that my boys will use it.

I am also wondering about having my boys do some CLEP tests eg Western Civ I and II and US History I and II. I know that this is not a consideration for you because of your kids taking college courses in high school. I can also look at community college classes for dual enrollment.

Sometimes I wish that I could just have all the kids follow the same plan - but then it goes against our free sprit homeschooler ethos

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pmeilaen
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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 9:35pm \| IP Logged

MarilynW wrote:

Have you looked at OLRS? They offer what you are looking for in terms of how they divide their history. I'm not quite sure what history books they use, but I think their courses are built upon The Human Achievement and Western Civilization, an old Catholic high school textbook. It only goes up to 1962, though, but my son thinks it's much better than "Christ the King, Lord of History." To find out more about this course it's best to call them or email them. I have found them very helpful and you can enroll in just one course.

CHC suggests using World History: Connections to Today. It's a secular textbook, but done quite well. Our library has it and you can find many older editions very cheaply. They also recommend World History the Easy Way. (There are two volumes). In "High School of Your Dreams" they have a long literature list to go with those books, but nothing is laid out for you.

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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 10:09pm \| IP Logged

I have lesson plans somewhere. My boys took the CLEP western civ 1 and 2 afterwards with passing scores.

I pulled a bunch of stuff together. I think this was the core of it. The outline schedule is somewhere in another room. :)

Book lists pulled from various sources
Speviogal world history
Teaching company DVDs
..

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guitarnan
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Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 10:17pm \| IP Logged

Quote:

I am also thinking of using church history resources such as Didache History of the Church, How The Catholic Church built Western Civilization, 10 Dates That Every Catholic Should Know etc.

I think these are great resources and we have used them all. My daughter is using the Didache book now. It's excellent.

I definitely agree that studying Western Civ is enhanced by adding in Church history. I've mentioned before, here at 4Real, that knowing Church history and being familiar with religious art made my college Western Civ (and other history) classes easy to pass - with good grades. My non-Catholic friends were amazed at how much I knew.

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SallyT
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 7:18am \| IP Logged

Yes, I'm really liking the Ancient History/Bible History thing this year -- Church History in the mix next year would make this two-year piece really integrated, pulling together history, literature, AND religion. The more it all speaks to each other, the better, I think.

And Marilyn, in many ways I think your 2-year plan and my 4-year plan look a lot alike! I like your senior-year idea. The main difference is that most of my Year 2/10th grade literature *is* British literature, since it's our civilizational literature as an English-speaking culture. I save things like Dante for senior year.

I did the literature in a full-on way with my oldest, who's now an English major with a concentration in medieval and Renaissance studies (brainwashing much? :) ). My second and current high-schooler is much, much more science-oriented, so I'm thinking I'll probably make the literature reading more economical (not easier, just make myself choose ONE text where I might have chosen three) to make room for more science. He's also potentially far more interested in things like political philosophy than my daughter was at this age, so his reading might skew more in that direction (and so count as "government" . . . )

I do really encourage reading that Esolen book, though. It makes for a great "mental spine" for you, if nothing else -- gives you a potential framework to hang things on and suggests some good readings, since he discusses various texts as he goes.

And the Teaching Company is just invaluable. We have really liked the Foundations of Western Civ series, which lasts us over two years, and this year I bought a course on The Aeneid on sale -- my son is listening to that one right now.

Oh, and I hadn't thought about this one, but with boys especially, if you want to go in the Far-East direction with your ancient-history/literature course, you might include Sun Tsu's The Art of War. It's very short, and it's been my son's favorite book forever. The Teaching Company also has a short lecture course on it, which he got for his birthday. It dates from c. 500 B.C. I hadn't thought about including it in this course before, because my son had already read it (thought I guess I could include it retroactively, since he's just been rereading it and listening to the lectures) but that would make a really interesting complement to what was going on in Greece, for example, at the same time, and it's a great "boy" book.

Sally

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MarilynW
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 8:39am \| IP Logged

pmeilaen wrote:

Thanks Eva. I checked out OLRS - but I don't seem to find a booklist or detailed curriculum description anywhere? Thanks for the other recommendations too.

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MarilynW
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 8:40am \| IP Logged

Martha wrote:

Martha - what do you think of the Spielvogl? Worth the cost?

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Martha
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 8:53am \| IP Logged

MarilynW wrote:

[QUOTE=Martha]

Martha - what do you think of the Spielvogl? Worth the cost?

It's not very expensive at all if you buy it used. The new price is not worth it. I think I spent something like $30 for mine, not bad IMO for a text that we used to cover two courses. I liked it well enough for a textbook on such a broad topic and it covered most of the suggested material in the CLEP study books. My boys liked it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0078607027/ref=dp_olp _used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

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Martha
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MarilynW
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 8:54am \| IP Logged

SallyT wrote:

Sally - I may change the Brit Lit thing too. Esp as Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Milton, Shakespeare and many more might be better covered in Western Civilization.

I too really like integrating art, religion, history and lit. BTW - Dr. Carol Reynold's Discovering Music is a great addition to the art/music/architecture part. Art history and composer study would be a big part of our Western Civ integrated class.

I have the Anthony Esolen book in my basket to read this summer. (I am a big Esolen fan!) I also am thinking of reading John Senior's The Death of Christian Culture and Reclaiming Christian Culture - just for mama reads.

My daughter is very into literature too - sounds like yours.She is into the whole liberal arts/lit/becoming a writer deal. My boys like to read and write, but not to such an extent. They are still trying to figure out their strengths and what they want to focus on in high school.

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pmeilaen
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Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 12:08pm \| IP Logged

MarilynW wrote:

pmeilaen wrote:

Thanks Eva. I checked out OLRS - but I don't seem to find a booklist or detailed curriculum description anywhere? Thanks for the other recommendations too.

You need to call them or email them and ask about their catalogue or the books directly. Robin Akridge, the office manager, will help you with that. She is a very nice person.

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Eva

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Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 8:43am \| IP Logged

Sorry Eva - I had missed your initial post about calling them.

(BTW - from another post of yours - I too have a whole house full of budding ornithologists - and talking about attention, I lose everybody if there is a bird at the feeder. There is a mass exodus to the windows with sketchpads, camera and bird guides. I tell them that I will make them work in a room without windows!!!)

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Marilyn
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pmeilaen
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Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 10:02am \| IP Logged

MarilynW wrote:

(BTW - from another post of yours - I too have a whole house full of budding ornithologists - and talking about attention, I lose everybody if there is a bird at the feeder. There is a mass exodus to the windows with sketchpads, camera and bird guides. I tell them that I will make them work in a room without windows!!!)

p.s. I do encourage creativity and self-directed learning, but sometimes it gets out-of-hand and does not accomplish anything.

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MarilynW
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Posted: Feb 09 2013 at 11:00am \| IP Logged

Has anyone used Light to the Nations I and II for West Civ, II and II?

I spoke to the publisher and they thought that the were good for 9th and 10th?

If you have used it - I would love to hear your views on format, reading schedule, do you need a TM etc.

Thanks.

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Marilyn
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pmeilaen
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Posted: Feb 09 2013 at 1:43pm \| IP Logged

RC History uses Light of the Nations I for grades 7-9 in Volume 3 and Light of the Nations II in Volume 4. However, volume 4 hasn't been published yet. I bought volume 1 many years ago, as a pdf file, and found it somewhat confusing. I like the book selections, but it didn't really help me with my lesson planning very much. Maybe the current guides are more helpful? We have Light of the Nations I, but I haven't used it so far. It's very detailed. I guess it depends on the type of child you have. I have the impression that more and more high school history resources tend to be like college history books. I have been wondering recently, if we don't do our children a disservice by trying to cram in as much as possible in high school to give them a head start in college. Maybe by the time they reach college, they will be already burned out from so much reading and won't have any desire to learn or read more. Of course you also don't want to not challenge them.

Anyway, another possibility you could consider are the books by Dorothy Mills. "The Book of the Ancient World," "The Book of the Ancient Greeks," "The Book of the Ancient Romans," "The Middle Ages," and "Renaissance and Reformation Times." Memoria Press has study guides for some of these. I don't know if she has written any book about the times after the Reformation, though. I think they used to be high school books although Memoria Press uses them earlier. Our library has some of them and I find them very living and interesting. I don't know how they would translate into lesson plans, etc., though.

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