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BlessedMom
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| Posted: March 27 2012 at 5:34am | IP Logged
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My oldest will be in highschool next year! Not exactly sure what we're going to do with him  .
I want to keep up with just using living books but I'm worried it might not be enough for highschool?
How do I know when to assign a credit? And how do you come up with course titles? Weird question but, he's never stayed on one history or science topic all year long. 
What about all those extra projects he does, can they count for something?
What about the ACT? *GASP* How do I make sure he's ready?
Those are just some questions to start off with, thanks! 
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amyable
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| Posted: March 27 2012 at 7:15am | IP Logged
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Welcome to the guinea pig club! I mean the "My Oldest Is Going to Start High School" club!
Judging by my opening line you can see I have no experience in having high school kids but I can recommend this website:
Lee Binz - The Home Scholar
Lee has some great articles and videos up on how to assign credits and create course descriptions, etc.
I'm planning on using some of her advice and also searching around to private school websites, etc, to see how they describe their courses.
Can't wait to hear veterans' advice on using living books for high school! I want to but am also nervous about not looking traditional enough. I will most likely "refer" to textbooks now and then, and put it on our booklist as having been used, along with a string of living books. 
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Barb.b
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Look at a variety of Colleges online to get a feel for what is required by some! It does help. most require 3-4 years of math (a definite trend to 4 years!); 3 of science (bio, chem and physics); 4 of English; 3 of history (most like to see U.S. history, world history and 1/2 year government/1/2 year economics, 2-3 years foreign language (some take latin but a lot do not count latin!). I also found some wanted speech - which I made sure over the 4 years of high school he had opportunities for speaking in "public" and counted that as speech. Some wanted to see "fine arts" - my ds played guitar in church and tool lessons so I counted that.
You might want to look at the particular requirements for your state - here in Texas we can do what we want (  ), but don't know what other states may require.
Also, I looked at different course descriptions online (from various "brick and mortar" high schools) to get an idea of what one looked like! I would say - be "real learning" and Charlotte Mason if you want - but make the course description look as traditional as possible. The possible exception to this may be if you are applying to a small liberal arts college - they may appreciate the more "real learning" type of description. So, you may want to have 2 different descriptions - one you send to the traditional colleges and one you send to the liberal arts type colleges.
Oh - yes - each year keep up with the course descriptions, textbooks lists and transcripts! It makes time to apply to colleges less stressful!
Weather you stick with just living books depends. It can be tricky in some subjects. I would tend to say for sciences you need text books and you can supplement with living books. I would also say the same for history. As great as living books are - many traditional colleges will be looking for a "traditional" looking course description. So, if you want - use living books as your main learning - and "supplement" with a text so you can put that text in as a textbook used for the course. Course titles - stick with traditional titles - and/or have the title reflect what the course is because most schools won't get past just looking for certain courses).
All that said - I got the impression that colleges saw my ds home schooled and really just looked at his ACT/SAT test scores. Really - when it comes to homeschoolers - yes you still need to submit course descriptions and transcript but most ds applied to even said right on the admissions web site that for home schoolers they will put a lot more emphasis on test scores.
So my advice - always have a test prep book that your dc is working through -maybe not as much in 9th grade - but in 10th and 11th - I would say a bit daily is needed. Also, the real benefit of these is for dc to grade practice tests or problems and look at the correct solution to those they get wrong. So make sure a test prep book you use has not only the correct answers to problems but what the complete solution is - and make sure dc go through that (cause if they are like my ds was - they will try to skip this!
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Oh - do not drop grammar!!! I don't care what some say - grammar is still a big part of the ACT and SAT and keep up with grammar until your ds is done with the tests!!!!! This is no matter how good he may be at it - because all humans tend to forget and you need to keep this fresh!!
Also, practice weekly essay writing like they will have in these tests - you know give a promt and have a short time to finish it in one sitting! My ds can write well - but didn't write as well in one sitting.
Also, doing complete practing exams (ACT and SAT) is helpful. Make it as much like the text situation as possible.
I would recommend taking both ACT and SAT as they are different and some kids do better in one over the other. And most college ds applied to took either.
Also, not to stress you out - but some colleges wanted homeschoolers to take some SAT subject tests (also called SAT 2 tests). None ds applied to - and they tended to be the "ivy schools" - but if you have an idea of where ds might apply - you may want to look! My ds just took the physics SAT test and never needed to send the scores anywhere.
Sorry for babbling! My "experiment" ds is now a freshman at Purdue and I remember well how confusing this all is!!
Barb
Adding one more thing - I wouldn't entirely stay away from text books because most colleges have text books and as much as we don't want to admit it - reading and studying a text book in order to take a test is a skill we need to teach. So, have this as a goal too - textbooks - and give a variety of different tests over the high school years (multiple choice, short answer and essay) because when dc get into college they will have text books and will be expected to be able to read, study and take a test. Also math - my ds took calculus in fall - and they gave NO PARTIAL Credit! Ugh - So in senior year of high school get to be a much tougher grader to prepare them!
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guitarnan
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Barb makes some excellent points.
Do keep a book list of everything your high schooler reads - you may need that when college application time comes around.
Do not drop grammar/vocab. We have been using Vocabulary Workshop for a couple of years and DD loves it - she took the PSSS (it's a practice SAT) a couple of weeks ago and told me she thought the vocab study really helped her.
Remember that high school literature classes are based around, well, literature. You really don't have to toss your living books. You can add in Shakespeare, poetry, nonfiction/essays, etc. wherever you like.
"All those projects" can indeed count for something, but you need to figure out how that will work. A project on travel might count for geography - but only if your student is studying geography. (If he isn't, suggest it for next year, record info about the project and give him credit next year!) Same for science/engineering. Just document/photograph the project, figure out how long it took to do, and work it into your records when that subject is actually studied.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: March 27 2012 at 9:39am | IP Logged
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I hope you'll forgive the length of my post and consider it just an expression of how much joy I have in living out a Charlotte Mason high school experience! 
I haven't graduated a homeschooler from high school yet; my oldest is moving into 11th grade next year. Our approach is similar in some ways to Barb's, and also somewhat different from so I thought I'd add it.
1) Know what a high school transcript from your state looks like. You can find these online. Get your hands on one so you know what your state requires for graduation.
2) Regardless of how your courses look, the transcript can be built and formatted to look like a regular 'ol state transcript, with regular 'ol course names. Of course, these should reflect in a general way the courses your student undertakes, but that is really pretty easy, even if you continue with a CM education in high school.
3) Do keep good booklists and decent course descriptions. It helps to have a high school planning notebook for collecting high school information, books read, courses taken, lectures, activities, projects, etc.. You can keep written notes of all kinds here. More on that below.
4) Do talk to colleges that your child is interested in attending. Find out from admissions what they like to see on a transcript in terms of courses. Let your high school student be in charge of this for the most part - it's THEIR education! If they want to attend school "x", then they should be on board with courses, "a", "b", and "c" which their school would like to see as part of their high school experience.
5) Consider a reasonable (not stressful, not excessive) amount of test preparation. These scores are pretty much what colleges look at, and a significant portion of these tests is simply test taking strategy! Don't be intimidated by these tests, they're tools and nothing more! Be pragmatic and reasonable about approaching them.
My 10th grade dd took the PSAT this past year. She had not had any Algebra II at that point, no Geometry, and though we did work through a reasonable amount of preparation, we weren't expecting anything grand. We just considered it a good practice for the SAT. She did well, not stellar, but we were all satisfied with her first test attempt. What's crazy is that since her test, colleges have been falling all over themselves to get her attention!! So, really - I STRONGLY BELIEVE that a good, liberal education prepares them more for life, and thus, any higher education, than anything else. My dd had NEVER taken ANY kind of standardized testing before. She's adequate in math. Her strength? She's been educated on rich, worthy literature and this allowed her to read, understand, reason vocabulary, reason test taking strategies, apply broad thought to focused questions. SAT scores (and perhaps in some local areas ACT scores) are going to be a large factor in college admittance as well as scholarship assistance.
6)
BlessedMom wrote:
| I want to keep up with just using living books but I'm worried it might not be enough for highschool? |
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They are ABSOLUTELY enough! We do not use texts for history or science (though every now and then I try to sneak one in, or ask for a bit of background reading from one, but it's minimal - more on why that is later, and hint: it's not because I didn't like the texts, I picked some interesting, strong texts!). I do not use spines. I consider our Book of Centuries a spine for history, weaving together all the child's reading. You absolutely CAN build and execute a lovely high school plan making use of living books. Worthy, living books continue to be a rich and worthy avenue to a liberal education. They do not cease to function in superior ways at the door to 9th grade. While I would agree that this is another step out in faith for a Charlotte Mason educator, it is, as all the rest of those faith-filled-steps are, a worthwhile one, and a highly rewarding one, both for student and mother/teacher.
Living books at a high school level grow richer, and the high school student's mind, now brimming with knowledge and relationships from their entire home educating history of worthy reading of literature, brings all this to bear when they pick up a living book for high school.
I'll share something else with you: a student that has been nourished from a banquet of living books for his entire education will eschew a textbook. Every.single.time I try to slide one in for reference, or as a lite spine, my child resists. She gives effort, out of discipline, and if I insisted she certainly *could* glean information from it, but not ideas, and since it deadens the entire subject for her, and thus the conveyance of ideas, I choose not to use them. It's just flat.
Can you use texts in a CM high school education? Certainly, and to be fair, I think there ARE some good ones out there! Is it necessary to use texts in planning/executing a high school education? No, I don't think so.
I want to convey a sense of support and encouragement for the home educator that would like to consider a Charlotte Mason/living books approach through high school. Not only can it be done, but it is rich beyond your imagination, rewarding and blessed for both student and teacher, a joy and delight in the execution, and generously liberal (in terms of scope - not talking political here). And your high schooler, now able to reason beautifully and nourished on living ideas, brings a mind to the table that will stun you, excite you, and is a self-educator.
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Quick thoughts on your other questions:
BlessedMom wrote:
| How do I know when to assign a credit? |
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I have found that Ambleside's detailed explanations of credit hours were most helpful because they cover the details of assigning credits with the perspective of a Charlotte Mason education.
BlessedMom wrote:
| And how do you come up with course titles? |
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I don't stress about this. For official purposes, I use the same course titles used on the transcript for my state. For our lesson plans, I call our course whatever I want to! This isn't that difficult really - Biology is....Biology. Often, the terms given on transcripts are general topic terms, and I have not found it even remotely difficult to consider "Biology" as the theme, and build a living booklist from there that does an adequate job of building an understanding of Biology. The same applies for the other subjects on a transcript.
BlessedMom wrote:
| Weird question but, he's never stayed on one history or science topic all year long. |
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No problem, but if you don't have the lines of communication open yet, it's time. Sit down with your son and discuss what you found in terms of *your state's* high school transcript. Is he going to need Biology, Chemistry, Physics? Discuss it together. How does he envision those courses? What is his passion? Does he know yet what direction he'll be going toward after high school? Or what direction he's NOT going toward? ((He DOES NOT need to know his major at this point, but by now, YOU BOTH KNOW if your student is not going in the direction of math or science or whatever....and this is what I mean.)) If your son is headed toward the sciences, you and he will probably want to exercise no small amount of your effort to nourishing him in the sciences as well as a strong math background. See what I mean? If he KNOWS he isn't headed in a science direction after high school, then you can relax in that area, and provide him an adequately broad coverage of the sciences. It is HIS responsibility to execute a high school plan, you are there to help alongside, to cheer in his corner, to coach him and help him build some skills, but you are NOT there to spoon feed. {{ Stepping off my soap box now....}} You might find a few past threads here helpful.
Order of Science Classes for High School
What is High School Level Science
High School Science Without a Textbook
These are just threads for some broader ideas, but do search more specific terms using the search engine. For example, if you're looking for ideas for a specific science subject, search here and you'll probably find some great books and resources to consider.
BlessedMom wrote:
| What about all those extra projects he does, can they count for something? |
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Absolutely!!
A High School Planning and Records Notebook
Start a high school notebook - some folks might find it easier to set it up by subject and file books read, projects completed under subject tabs, and then that will be an assistant to you as you build courses and tally credits...throughout an entire 4 year high school experience. Another way to build a high school record notebook is to divide it by year and subdivide it by subject. Whatever fits BEST with your family style, but it's a good way to keep random bits of projects, booklists, activities, etc. organized for compiling on a transcript.
BlessedMom wrote:
| What about the ACT? *GASP* How do I make sure he's ready? |
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Easy. Get a simple preparation book. My dd took the PSAT, not the ACT, and we used the Barron's PSAT prep book. Not a delight, but it was a helpful book for preparing. There are a slew of prep books and resources for the ACT as well. I thought of this recent thread on PSAT/SAT test prep, and thought it might have some good resources for you.
============================================
The short answer, is YES, YOU CAN DO HIGH SCHOOL WITH CHARLOTTE MASON AND LIVING BOOKS, and it is a delight! I can't speak from my own experience, not having graduated any children yet, but I'm always so proud of my mom's experiences in home education that if you'll allow me to sing her praises a minute, I think you'll find in it encouragement. My mom home educated my brother and sister with CM all the way through high school and their education was STELLAR! It was EXTRAORDINARY!! My brother attended a big name university in architecture for a while and was recruited by professors because of his extraordinary gift of creativity, his remarkable understanding of history's inter-connectedness (thank you, CM! ), and communicating so thoroughly and so well in the written word. My sister graduated college Magna Cum Laude, and she credits home education and my mom (of course that makes me smile! ). She learned HOW to learn, HOW to apply herself with discipline, HOW to get the most out of a book, course, lecture and how to seal the deal with narration. CM can be done in high school!
You are in the right place for support and encouragement! The members here have great experiences and resources to relate and share and encourage you.
And....WELCOME again to the boards!!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Barb.b
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| Posted: March 27 2012 at 9:49am | IP Logged
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Oh - one more thing - keep track of outside, "non" academic activities. There were a number of school ds applied to where I was very glad we kept track of about how much time he spent doing. Some asked about how much per week he spent at things and in those instances we would average, but you certainly could answers monthly... And I don't know about the future but when ds was applying colleges stressed "leadership". Boy, that can mean so much and in my opinion one could list a lot of different activities as leadership. My ds happened to have Civil AIr Patrol, but also a praise band he started at church and also he was a teacher assistant and camp counselor at the place he took science classes at). So - keep a notebook or folder in a computer and keep track of hours and activities. When the time comes - because school will ask. Also, many schools wanted a resume - so when the time comes you can check with this list of hours and figure out categories for the resume.
Barb
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guitarnan
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Civil Air Patrol, 4-H, Boy Scouts all have activities that might also count toward course credit. We counted a lot of Boy Scout merit badge work (esp. the citizenship badges) as social studies, science and P. E. work.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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BlessedMom
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Thanks for all the information! A lot to think about! I've talked to him about what field he might go into.. He said something about going into Politics! He's also mentioned enlisting in the Army.
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Barb.b
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My ds in 8th-10th grade wanted to go into Air force academy. THen in junior year he switched to Engineering. Once in college in freshman year he went from Engineering, to Industrial Design to now economics. So you just never know! I guess thats why schools want kids to have 4 years of Math, 3 of science and 4 of english (among other things) because you just never know what they will end up doing! That said - high school and college are all about exploring their options! The great thing is he has time to explore. I always tell my kids - very few people going into college really know what exactly what major/career they want! In fact I read college kids change majors on average 4 times in their college career!
Barb
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Angie Mc
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My first homeschool graduate will graduate from college in a year  so I'm looking to answer your question from 2 perspectives...where I was when she was going to be a freshman (check out these links and sub-links for my thoughts at the time,) and where I am now.
What did I do right back then?
*Hang around here and with other families homeschooling through high school.
*Design our own curriculum.
*Avoid all or nothing thinking. My dd did some schooling at home, some with homeschooling groups, and some at the local community college.
*Take advantage of what the community college offers for high school students.
*Help student to be charge of their studies...and their lives.
*See student's poor decisions/mistakes as part of growing up. Better now than later.
*Support an active social life for student.
*Switch my role from teacher/organizer/disciplinarian to mentor/cheerleader.
*Looked for "yes" to account for some unusual ways we approached learning (yes, movies count, yes, discussions count, yes, volunteer work counts, yes...)
*Write up studies/experiences in a format easily understood by college admissions.
*Continue to stress character formation. (It amazes me how many parents skip this to pay enormous amount of time/energy on academics.)
What I did wrong?
*Stress about paperwork, over-thinking it.
*Worry about having the student prepared for "everything." No such thing.
*Held onto my disciplinarian role for too long. Should have handed that over to dad completely by 9th grade.
*Listened to worry-warts and/or overachievers .
*Allowed myself to "feel" more responsible for outcomes than I was.
*****
Now, I can rest more easily in this process that is *much more mysterious* than people let on. There are a million books, seminars, and what-have-you, that would lead one to think:
A. This homeschooling high school thing is impossibly complicated, filled with endless pitfalls that mother is responsible for avoiding at all costs.
B. Follow someone's rules just right and you too can go to Harvard!
We chose and continue to choose something else.
Homeschooling high school is at its best when it helps the student to grow in virtue, skill, and broad knowledge. It allows for the student to live well today while also preparing for a mysterious future. It takes advantage of the strengths of the student and his/her family to create a unique and interesting experience (no cookie cutter kids!) It addresses weaknesses with humility and reaches out for help when needed.
Welcome!
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: March 27 2012 at 3:57pm | IP Logged
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BlessedMom, I forgot to mention that if any of us can help you, as a new member, to navigate the archives here, please let us know. Feel free to ask specific questions and this gathering is eager to share what we're doing today as well as find what others have shared in the past that has been helpful.
I'm so happy that you have joined in the conversation .
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Kristie 4
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Love it Angie (especially the last two points~~) 
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Kristie in Canada
Mom to 3 boys and one spunky princess!!
A Walk in the Woods
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SallyT
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A very good exercise which CHC's High School of Your Dreams has you do -- I did it with both my now-college-student and my 8th grader as 7th graders -- is to research colleges, get their catalogs, visit their websites, and generally visualize where you might see yourself being after high school. Then you look at their admissions requirements and plan to do what it would take you to get there. I can't overstate how valuable this was to my daughter. Even though her visions of what she wanted to do, and even what kind of college she wanted to go to, changed significantly over her four years of high school, still she had an idea going in of what she would *have* to do to be a serious applicant, and this kept her motivated.
It's my sense that asking a young teenager what he wants to do or be, or what field he wants to go into, is dealing with abstractions that may or may not mean much to a given child at that age. My experience has been that it's easier for them to think in terms of a place -- a college -- where they could see themselves finding the way towards the bigger life stuff.
My husband is a college professor (in the humanities -- he's a theologian), and every day he sees students who don't/can't read (as in, critically or even with understanding), can't write (as in, when he asks them how they write a sentence, they say, "I just write some words, then I stop."), can't focus on a lecture or take notes, expect to be spoon-fed with study guides for everything and then still don't bother to study . . . He has some excellent, well-prepared students, but the other guys got into college, too, and they are what America's educational system is pumping out by the thousands. On our worst homeschooling days, I have to say to myself that at the VERY least, the kids and I can beat that.
Meanwhile, I think Angie's list of "did rights" and "did wrongs" is excellent.
Sally
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: My oldest will be in highschool..
