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Donna Marie
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 11:21pm | IP Logged
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My twin dds are juniors this year. Right now they are planning to go to college and study something like theology (at least at this time). They have a bit of a learning retention issue and haven't been able to really nail some subjects until now.
I need to work with them a bit remedially in a few areas to get them ready for college. Some of the things I need to go over with them include spelling, grammar (usage) and Latin.
What can I use with them for these things? (maybe something CM'ish) They have made tremendous strides in their ability to remember some things that they couldn't retain before. Years ago we tried Latin and it was way too frustrating for them but now they want to try it again
As far as Latin goes, we need to go slow but we want to get enough Latin in them to help them take it as far as they can in two years (taking into consideration what their major would be). They are making tremendous progress and seem to have made another leap in learning and I know they might be able to do this if they are given their own time to soak it in.
What should I use with them? I was wondering what would best prepare them. They are highly visual, if that helps...
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Sept 22 2011 at 12:29am | IP Logged
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We started using Easy Grammar Plus this year for our 9th and 11th grader per Jen's (Mackfam) recommendation.
Jennifer, are you still using this?
I like it very much, although it is definitely a workbook. The lessons are short and can be done in 15 minutes.
What about the English from the Roots Up cards?
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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mom2mpr
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I used Winston Grammar with ds and he finished it up last year. This year we lucked into a tutor and he is taking Latin with her using a text called Latin for Americans. He LOVES the text. He did need to review some grammar last week and pulled out Winston and is back on track.
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Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
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guitarnan
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We use Easy Grammar Plus, too, but I have also used an older edition of Warriner's English Grammar and Composition. It's excellent...a friend of mine studied from it and passed the CLEP exam easily.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Sept 22 2011 at 8:19am | IP Logged
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Erica Sanchez wrote:
We started using Easy Grammar Plus this year for our 9th and 11th grader per Jen's (Mackfarm) recommendation.
Jennifer, are you still using this? |
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That is a very popular program....I know I've heard of a number of folks here refer to it, but I'm afraid I haven't used it. The only supplemental grammar tool we use is Winston Grammar, like Anne uses, and though I don't use many *curriculum tools*, this is one I heartily recommend!
I use the program once in late elementary (Basic), once in Middle (Word Works), and once in High School (Advanced). Along with dictation lessons, it's been enough to solidify grammar and mechanics here. I like it because it can work with every single learning style - visual, auditory, kinesthetic! I don't use it in a consumable/workbook way. I teach the lesson (which usually takes 5 min), but rather than have the child work through the workbook page, I use the teachers manual and call out 2 - 3 sentences for the child to practice each day. They use the supplied cards to identify the parts of speech. Sometimes, I don't use the supplied sentence, but rather have the child map out a sentence from their dictation selection with cards indicating part of speech.
It would be fine to use the Basic version of Winston Grammar at ANY upper grade age. The program is not age-specific, or geared in a way for a younger (or particular) age, which makes it a perfect program to use for remediation. Another benefit is that this program can fit the short lesson model very easily! You need not purchase the consumable workbook, the TM has all the sentences from the workbook written in it, along with the answers!!!!! So, unless you just want the kids to use a workbook, or they like using some workbooks (you can get around this by calling out the sentence and having them write it on paper, or have the child write it on a dry-erase board), you only need the TM and the cards. Laminate the cards. Trust me on that one!!
Winston Word Works is a great usage program, Donna Marie. We didn't find that it took us long to go through it, which means that for your girls, you could move at a nice, thorough, and slow pace, reviewing, reviewing, reviewing. Again, we used the short lesson model for this, so that we didn't overwhelm the day with grammar usage.
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As far as Latin -- I'm a big believer and convinced user of the Memoria Press offerings. My oldest is in Henle Latin now and I highly recommend the study guides that Cheryl Lowe has done that accompany Henle. (By the way, if you order the study guide, you don't need the answer key because the answers are printed for you in the back of the study guide.) My 10th grader has tolerated Latin up until this point, but all of a sudden really seems to be enjoying it. She says she much prefers Henle over Latina Christiana, though she acknowledges that the LC programs REALLY prepared her for Henle. She finds Henle easy to read and the examples are helpful. But this is ONLY if you've taken Latin before. The exercises are good, but there are WAY too many, so we moderate the number of exercises done. I ask for 4 or 5 sentences to be translated rather than the 24 Henle asks for.
Have the girls taken Latin before? You mention that they did a little. If not, I might consider one of the Memoria Press First Form Latin programs. By the way, I definitely recommend those DVD's that come with the programs. They're not cheap, but they are, in fact, worth it I have learned (the hard way!) UNLESS, you are fluent in Latin. 
And....though I think you certainly could make this program visually skewed for the girls, I'm not sure it's the right program for them. What are you hoping to accomplish in Latin, Donna Marie? Grammar? Translation/vocabulary? Being able to pronounce/translate Latin? Ecclesiastical or Classical?
******** I'm offering some options/ideas for you ****************
Classical Latin - this usually focuses more on Roman history and the pronunciations are slightly different than you'd hear in a Latin Mass for example.
** IF....your preference is not Ecclesiastical Latin, I HIGHLY recommend Classical Academic Press' Latin programs. They're well done, visually interesting, and content interesting. The big focus is Roman history.
Ecclesiastical Latin - usually focuses more on Latin you'd hear in the Liturgy (hymns, prayers), but also includes Latin sayings. A few consonants have a different pronunciation than classical.
** IF....you're looking for a full program, here are some ideas. I'll start at the most basic level since I don't know where the girls are....Prima Latina - this is going back all the way to the beginning, introducing to Latin vocabulary, the student is barely introduced to Latin conjugations, and most of the Latin memorization involved are the basic prayers of the Church! It is NOT an age-specific program, though it does assume the most basic of grammar understanding.
First Form Latin (Memoria Press) - can be a good beginning, catch up or remediation point. It may be the better fit for them if you're looking for a full Latin program. I'd look at the MP site first though...and some samples. Another plus of First Form Latin is that it is equivalent to a high school foreign language credit. ** IF....you just want the girls to solidify (mostly) Latin and some Greek roots, suffixes, prefixes, derivatives and help them extend their vocabulary, you might consider something like Book of Roots or Roots of English.
*************** DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLASSICAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL LATIN PRONUNCIATION ***************
I know you didn't ask about the differences between Ecclesiastical latin v. Classical, but this can be helpful. Since your girls have been studying Latin before, Donna Marie, I'm assuming you'll just continue along the path you've already been moving on.
Veni, vidi, vici (Julius Caesar -- "I came, I saw, I conquered")
Phonetically:
Classical -- WEENY, WEEDY, WEECHY
Ecclesiastical -- VEENY, VEEDY, VEECHY
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So, that would be my take on Latin and Grammar in the last couple of years of high school for your girls, Donna Marie. I know it's important for you to consider carefully so you get the best tool to fit your girls' needs! I'll pray for you as you discern!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Sept 22 2011 at 9:05am | IP Logged
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Another thought occurred to me, Donna Marie!
Rather than recommending curriculum tools that you might have to purchase, why don't you tell us what you've got ALREADY ON YOUR SHELF...that COULD work...or even that DIDN'T work in the past...and perhaps we can brainstorm ways to make that tool more workable and useable in your circumstances?
Now, you might be looking for something entirely new to purchase for some of these areas (spelling, grammar, latin), but if you have some resources on your shelves already, and you're open to brainstorming, we could try! Heck! Who knows? If we brainstorm one or two of these areas, that might leave you the money in your budget to purchase a new program that could be the best fit in the other area???
Anyway, thought I'd mention that idea! In the past 10+ years, I've definitely purchased some tools that didn't work well for us *out of the box*. A little brainstorming allows me to use the tool in a way that is a better fit for our family! Thought we could try to do that a bit for you!! 
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Kristie 4
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Oh Donna Marie, you have to check out Visual Latin- it is so hands off and gets kids thinking in Latin from the get go (so easy on Mom too!!!)
The first few lessons are free!
By the way, I have a shelf of Latin Resources and have slugged through Henle for years already!!
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Erica Sanchez
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Oops. Sorry, Jennifer. I now remember your posts on Winston Grammar.  And, did you see I wrote 'mackfarm'? Goodness, my brain!
Anyway, glad to see that you like the Memoria Press Latin books. :)
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Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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Kristie 4
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Donna Marie, if you are interested in the First Form series I am looking to sell mine (cheaply  ). They are solid, but my kids missed all the big translations in Henle. I have first form and second form in new condition....
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Kristie in Canada
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: Sept 23 2011 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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Ok...I am looking into Latin and reading a bit...get back to you on that one...
Grammar...I decided Winston may just be what i am looking for. I needed something that would cover the ages and not make me keep purchasing for each child. SO I am giving that one a go...
Spelling..I have Sound Beginnings. I think I will try that. I can't remember how to use it so I am hoping that I can use this in a remedial fashion...any thoughts on that??
You guys are great. Me? I am a bit  but hopefully things will fall into place...
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Angel
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| Posted: Sept 28 2011 at 4:28pm | IP Logged
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Donna Marie,
A couple of thoughts... If you use the Memoria Press study guides for Henle Latin, they actually take a slower pace than a "typical" high school Latin I class would. My dd is enrolled in the High School Latin I online class right now, and they do 2 weeks of the study guide every week. So the slower pace of the study guide may be exactly right for your girls (and I wouldn't worry about whether it matched anybody else's pace, because when your girls apply to college you'll probably document their learning disabilities and the college will work with you on that.)
If you are looking at the Memoria Press offerings and your kids are big picture people, I would definitely go with Henle over First Form. But if they do better with lots of repetition and concepts being broken up into small pieces, I would go with First Form. (We have used both.)
As far as spelling goes, I think Sound Beginnings is based on The Writing Road to Reading, right, which can be used with any age. Starting a Spelling Notebook uses the Spalding method with older kids to focus on spelling. I haven't used this guide yet, but it is sitting on my shelf waiting on me.
My oldest, who has spelling "issues", has also used A Spell of Words with some success. The things I liked about this book are: 1)It's written to the older student; 2) It lays out spelling rules in a logical fashion; and 3) It's cheap. Garrett finished it last year, and I do think it made a difference in his spelling.
Good luck!!!
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Angela
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Latin/Grammar et al...what would you do?
