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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 23 2009 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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Okay, first let me apologize if I could have done a search to find this info.  My internet stinks!
Anyway, CLAA has come up in another thread and I was looking at their website last night. I left it up and this morning my dd13 said to me that she had been reading the website and it was what she had always wanted to do for school. I almost fell over! We spent the morning reviewing the website (again, our internet stinks) but I can't seem to find detailed information on their high school program.
Can someone tell me how it works?
Thanks!!!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Martha
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Look in the left sidebar
core curriculum
overview
it brings up how they level courses
they don't do it by grade, they do it by level
I'm guessing you'd have to call them to see where in the levels your dc would need to be placed.
I'd be curious also to see how far they've gotten in planning highschool.
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Martha
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denise3578
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Molly,
My13 yos signed up and loves it. He is taking Grammar 1, Catechism 1, Chronology 1 and Arithmetic 1. He is definitely challenged by the curriculum. You can ask about high school on the forum there, non-student families have access to two categories. I don't know exactly how it will all end time-wise, but what he is learning is life-changing and life-forming - so I'll relax about the timing. Plus, since he is older, he going through the material a little faster then my younger ones. But again, I am trying to relax about that, keep my on the big picture and allow him to immerse himself in the wisdom to be found there.
Denise
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ekbell
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The Admissions overview link on the left discusses their three main offerings,
the Petty School for children not yet ready for the Standard program,
The Standard program for those who have the time to finish before college. (their example child was eight)
and the four year Prep program for those seeking a "classical liberal arts-based college preparatory program" but who are starting too late to work through the standard program. (their example youngster was fifteen)
I assume that it would be possible to get their recommendations for a thirteen year old.
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BrendaPeter
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Yes, Molly, it is challenging for someone starting at high school age. We currently have 5 of our 6 enrolled & the one who has had the most difficult time is our 15-year-old - ONLY because he hasn't taken CLAA from the beginning & had to jump in in the middle.
He is 1/2way through Henle with Memoria Press' Online Academy so that is somewhat helpful. Currently he is taking CLAA:
Dialectic
Humanities
Scriptural Catechism
Dialectic is based on Aristotle's "Topics" which is a difficult read mostly because it's actually easier to read in Greek which, of course, he doesn't know. The younger kids starting out with CLAA (like my 6 1/2 year old) will be reading it in Greek when they get to that course. The course uses lesson plans written by Mr. Michael. They are excellent and we wouldn't understand the book without those. The information we are learning is both powerful and essential. These are the "tools" (along with Rhetoric) that most "classical" programs are lacking.
Humanities is also quite challenging. Currently he is memorizing the 1st portion of Cicero's "Pro Archias" speech in both Latin & English. This curriculum takes both patience & perseverance and is not for the faith-hearted! It is, however, do-able if you are convinced that the benefits are worth it.
There's a whole philosophy about Classical Math as well but I'll just invite you to sign up on the CLAA forum and check out all the posts.
Feel free to PM me with any questions.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 24 2009 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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Thanks ladies.
Denise- does your son feel like the Catechism is too young?
Brenda- since you have a bunch of kids doing it, let me ask you if it works for all the kids as far as learning style, interest level, difficulty, etc. I have a really hard time seeing a couple of my kids doing anything like this. As for your six year old, is he learning to read in Latin first, rather than English? That seemed to be what the website said about reading, but I wondered if I misunderstood.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Martha
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| Posted: Oct 24 2009 at 1:34pm | IP Logged
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whre's that popcorn lurking smiley?
I'm listening to...
I have 2 boys learning greek this year and 1 really likes the look of CLAA. Much to my shock and milkd personal horror. (I never feel like I can really count on internet/DVD based learning. I'm a book gal though and through.)
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Martha
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BrendaPeter
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I just re-read your post Molly which states that your daughter is 13 - well, that's a different story! I'll keep my original post up though in case someone else has an older children who's interested.
Our just-turned (yesterday) 14-year-old, like Denise's dd, is taking the same 4 courses along with Classical Vocabulary I. He is very challenged too but there's nothing like passing the test! In order to pass the test the student must get a 100 & must also go back periodically to review as the classical curriculum requires mastery. There's no way to "fudge" learning with CLAA. You either know it or you don't.
Let me also state that enrollment with CLAA is very "out-of-the-box". I hate using that term but we've all been tainted by the modern way of thinking about education - it's in the air we breathe. The bottom line is that it's not about finishing courses to fill out a transcript. As Mr. Michael often says - it's not about finishing the race but about finishing it WELL. The rigorousness of the classes is what's of primary importance. My 15-year-old may only complete Dialectic, Humanities, Scriptural Catechism, Rhetoric & Moral Theology (maybe) over the next 3 years but he'll be way ahead (God willing!) of most high school graduates in terms of intellectual formation.
Also, anyone can take the courses, including mom & dad ($125/each). There is no deadline for completing them as the students work at their own pace. I encourage you to look at the course samples as they give a very good sense of what to expect.
For us, one of the greatest things this year was not having to buy books. Yippee!
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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teachingmyown wrote:
Denise- does your son feel like the Catechism is too young? |
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I hope it's ok if I answer too. My son is doing very well with Catechism but he doesn't always get 100 on the 1st try so I believe he is learning quite a bit. Mr. Michael uses the Baltimore Catechism #4 so there is plenty of new material - such as what is "hyperdulia"? That worship that is set apart for Our Lady. I've learned a ton already. I'm fine if my son doesn't go through all 3 levels. We'll take it year by year.
One major benefit of all the courses is that they include classical thinking, known to us as logical thinking. The questions on the tests can be very tricky but force the student to have the "right" thinking. Even Grammar uses ideas that I'm learning with my son in Dialectic.
teachingmyown wrote:
Brenda- since you have a bunch of kids doing it, let me ask you if it works for all the kids as far as learning style, interest level, difficulty, etc. I have a really hard time seeing a couple of my kids doing anything like this. As for your six year old, is he learning to read in Latin first, rather than English? That seemed to be what the website said about reading, but I wondered if I misunderstood.
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My kids are very much enjoying being enrolled in the same school. It sure makes dinner conversation VERY exciting! They all bring their own personal strengths & weaknesses to this. It's important to look at the history of classical education. When that was the primary way of educating people (it started as early as 5 B.C.), no one was asking if it would fit the student. It was simply known as the best way to be educated. If anyone is interested in learning more I highly recommend Fr. Robert Schwickerath's book "The History of Jesuit Education" which is available on Google or from Amazon.
The way Grammar works is that every other lesson includes several lines of St. John's gospel to be memorized in both English & Latin. The other lessons are focused on Grammar. At the end of Grammar 1, the student will have the 1st 3 books of St. John's gospel memorized in Latin & English. In Grammar 2, they will have it memorized in Greek. Grammar 3 switches to Cicero. The grammar portions are very challenging but my 6 1/2 year old is doing it! My 14-year-old ds & 10-year-old dd take about 1 week to complete a lesson but it takes my 6 1/2 year old 2-3 weeks. Amazingly my 10-year-old ds who struggles with reading (we assume he has a processing problem) just completed Lesson 2. He was tickled! I will say it does involve help from mom (not necessarily alot) with the younger kids but since there's no rush with them, wait until the older ones get established.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Martha
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hmmm..
how about the math?
how is that done, esp the older ones?
also, what do your kids NOT like? are there science experiments at all? I too want the higher order thinking, but I also want the higher order DOING. if that makes any sense.
maybe I want too much...
ETA: now I have that bond movie in my head! "The World (and all it's books) Is Not Enough!"
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Martha
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teachingmyown
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Good questions Martha! I feel like we are tag-teaming these CLAA moms! 
One thing I felt was difficult to accept was the total back burner that history takes. I have used history based programs for the last 13 years. I love history! I totally buy into the idea that those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it, even if Mr. Michael doesn't.
Hmmm.... lots of thoughts here. I think I will let dd13 start with one of two courses and take it from there.
How much time are your dc spending per day doing this, especially your teens?
Ds 11 hates any schoolwork, but maybe this is straight-forward enough that he can do it. If he knows the expectations, maybe it will help him focus. I am not known for my organization and follow-through.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Martha
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hey they have a sample home school schedule somewhere on that website.. I just glanced at it and kept moving... I'll try to find it again..
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ElizLeone
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There is so much good about this program.
But when we tried if for a semester last year (when I was at my wits end with a balky 12-year-old daughter), it didn't quite work for us. The reason is that there were really no dates to shoot for. I mean that my daughter had no due dates for projects. So I would tell her that she had to work on each subject each day. But to get 100% in a given assignment might take a day or a week or longer. And because of her personality, she'd drag it out. Due to the set-up of the program, I sort of lost the ability to give her a deadline to get something done and have it in my hands for review. That was something she needed. Mr. Michael said it was a viable concern and that they might look into ways to fix that in the future. I don't know if they have, as we are not using CLAA this year.
I fully believe it could be a really great program for the right personality (not a dawdling, procrastinator type). 
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
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denise3578
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I agree with much of what Brenda said - CLAA is totally different than anything else out there - and I have done many curriculums - from Sonlight to Seton.
I asked my son about the Catechism - he said that this program is "enlightening" (his word) it gives him a lot to think about. It is definitely challenging, as Brenda said - they have to pass with 100% accuracy. I also have an 11yo, an 8yo and a 5yo enrolled too. Each lesson has two parts, a memory work part, and the lesson part.
My older kids can read through the stuff on their own, and I help them with memory work. And by that I do not mean just recitation. We have come up with other ways too. For ex., we cut apart the Latin memory work into strips - they put them in the right order. For my 5yo, I talk about the work in other contexts to keep it in his mind. I find I can come up with a few bells and whistles if necessary, because I don't have to actually come up with the lesson myself - or plan the curriculum.
As far as science goes, many people ask this question of Mr. Michael. I certainly don't want to speak for him, but from what I have learned, the pursuit of science has eclipsed the pursuit of wisdom and the eternal truths to be found in a classical curriculum. If you will allow me to quote from one of my lessons:
"All of the physical sciences, with all their information observations and discoveries, lead us no further than the present life. "
"The natural sciences as we know them today were not unknown to the ancients, they were undesired. As the study of the wisdom-seeker was directed at the elevation of the soul, the value of the study of the physical world was understood to be limited. This is the source of the necessary balance in science education. "
When children are exposed to intense science, without the wisdom gained by studying philosophy, it can jeopardize their faith formation, as much science today questions the very existence of God.
As Brenda mentioned, our modern education system as misconstrued the meaning of several terms - "classical education" being one of them. A classical education is not based on "The Lost Tools of Learning", it is based on The 7 Liberal Arts- GRAMMAR, DIALECTIC, RHETORIC, ARITHMETIC, GEOMETRY, MUSIC and ASTRONOMY. And Grammar Dialectic and Rhetoric are not learning stages - they are specific arts and skills. If you want, I suggest going to his website and reading through his articles in archives. He specifically refutes most of Dorothy Sayer's points in one of his essays - very eye-opening.
Hope this helps,
Denise
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Martha
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ah-ha! here's that sample schedule.
http://www.classicalliberalarts.com/homeschool/schedule.htm
personally i think that schedule has folks eating with teh blue-hairs as my dh says and putting the kids in bed WAYYYYYY later than I'd allow, but that's me. 
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denise3578
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Molly,
I don't think Mr. Michael thinks that studying history has no value - in fact he has an excellent course "Chronology" which goes right through world history - starting with the Isrealites.
As far as the time goes, we spend time, but on less subjects. So instead of transitioning from one to another every half hour, we are spending an hour or more on one topic. And this need not mean sitting in a chair for an hour. Also, when the kids are studying the same things, a little competition can be introduced - this is also motivation - at least for mine.
Scheduling is definitely addressed - Mr. Michael even posts the schedule he uses with his own kids. He has seven, I think, with the oldest being 9.
When we were looking into this, I printed out all the archives and my husband and I read them through. That will really help. I also emailed him several times and he answered me promptly.
Denise
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BrendaPeter
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ElizLeone wrote:
But when we tried if for a semester last year (when I was at my wits end with a balky 12-year-old daughter), it didn't quite work for us. The reason is that there were really no dates to shoot for. I mean that my daughter had no due dates for projects. So I would tell her that she had to work on each subject each day. But to get 100% in a given assignment might take a day or a week or longer. And because of her personality, she'd drag it out. Due to the set-up of the program, I sort of lost the ability to give her a deadline to get something done and have it in my hands for review. That was something she needed. |
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I can understand this being a problem. Fortunately since the program is so simple - i.e. no books (I did buy Aristotle's "Topics"), answer keys, teachers guides, used curriculum buying & selling - I spend a majority of my time touching base with my kids & finding out where they are with things. We have a daily schedule where the kids do school from 9-11:30 in the morning & 1-3 in the afternoons. (Early bedtimes are big here Martha ). That is school time so if anyone is dawdling I re-direct them back to their work. If they don't progress with their studies, then we quickly figure out why. Our 14-year-old & 10-year-old have kept up with doing 1 lesson per week with 4 of the classes. This week Lesson 7 of Grammar is a bit more challenging so they'll be taking a bit more time with that. I'm very grateful for the flexibility.
As far as math goes, Classical Math focuses on principle over application unlike most modern math programs. There's more info on the forum about math as well.
2 of my children are taking World Chronology and they are both learning more history than they've ever learned with textbook/living books history courses. Like Denise, we've done it all  . In the 1st year, they learn & memorize the entire timeline of history. (Can't take that timeline on the wall with you when you go to college, now can you ?) The next 2 years are spend going into the deeper details of the timeline.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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teachingmyown wrote:
Ds 11 hates any schoolwork, but maybe this is straight-forward enough that he can do it. If he knows the expectations, maybe it will help him focus. I am not known for my organization and follow-through.
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I just wanted to mention that our 14-year-old loves knowing what he has to do & being set free to do it.
Martha asked what the kids don't like about it. Well, they don't like hard work and this definitely falls in that category. However, they are ALL recognizing the importance of forming and disciplining the mind. Honestly, it's been the most challenging for our oldest 2, particularly with the memory work. We've always done memory work but not this much & they didn't have to do it on their own.
Just thought I should mention it is very helpful to have more than 1 computer but there are some very reasonable computers one can buy these days. The Michaels buy some sort of very pared down computers for about $200. The lessons can be done away from the computer but tests & prelections (audio/video Grammar lessons) are done online.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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teachingmyown
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I was going to ask about the computers. Are the kids using the computer for their lessons the whole time or are you printing stuff off? We have two computers but both can't be on the internet at the same time.
Oops, just read your last paragraph again.
I guess I misread the Chronology page. I thought it was more of a cursory look through the timeline of history rather than anything more indepth.
Thanks for all you help, Brenda and Denise.
Thanks, also, Elizabeth. It is helpful to know that some personalities, especially when Mom isn't always on the ball, might not do well with this.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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teachingmyown
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Okay, so I know I started this thread here in the high school forum, but...
I do plan to start dd13 on at least the Grammar I course, and hopefully to move on to the whole program for her. However, as I consider my younger kids, I am stuck. I am a relaxed, CM-ish type of mom in my heart. I have a hard time seeing my little guys (9 and under) doing CLAA. I am much more inclined toward read-alouds and nature study, lots of free reading and interest-led learning, a "better late than early" philosophy. I am looking at Jennifer's (Mackfam) morning basket post and wanting that atmosphere for my family. So, I am really torn.
Is this a shift in philosophy for you CLAA moms? Am I over thinking about this? Do your little guys still enjoy "school" and have time to be young and free?
What if I choose to let me young ones run wild (not quite) and then have them settle down and start CLAA at a later age?
It's getting late. I think I will pray on this tomorrow.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: CLAA for high school
