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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 06 2009 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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I need recommendations for high school level books that are the best for self-teaching students. Dd 13 is spending her entire mornings on Warriner's English and Jacob's Algebra. She is a smart girl, but sits and cries over the work. I have offered her alternatives but she seems determined to suffer through.
Jacob's Algebra seems hard to me, and in a past life I was a math major. It certainly doesn't seem easy to read and do without one on one instruction. It seems too abstract.
Warriner's is just painful. I would like something to just stick in her hand to help her with writing that will make sense to her. She hates the random writing assignments.
We are both stressed out.
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Molly
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Martha
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Lials intro or beginning algebra
seton English/reading
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Martha
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: Oct 06 2009 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
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Nothing but commiseration here, Molly. One of my twins is really lost using Warriners...she has a processing problem too. I am trying to find a book like that in that it covers a lot, but in a gentle way. Even I was a bit  looking at some of the examples without a solutions manual.
What is Seton like, Martha?
(Not to change the subject as I know this is not your issue, but I could start a whole 'nother post about what could be reasonable expectations for a High School non-traditional kid(s)that want to self-teach......when the "recommended books don't "work"...and I will when I get some TIME)
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stefoodie
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Ack. Jacob's Algebra drop out here (with my oldest). We went back to Saxon, then Math-U-See. So far 13-yo is enjoying Saxon, and said he'll stick with it, but if we have difficulties with Algebra I might go with Teaching Company and Teaching Textbooks. That's my backup plan right now.
We didn't stick to Warriner's either. We did read some of it. 
DD did best with Format Writing -- I can't tell you how much of that she did because by the time she was doing it I had given up -- too many unnecessary battles LOL. So it's not Grammar but I guess she learned enough because she's doing well now and is in Honors English so it must have worked for her. Now if she could only get some profs that don't assign anti-Catholic texts...
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Kristie 4
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We do just every other lettered question in the Set 2 exercises in Jacob's. Who wants to beat a dead horse anyway? If they aren't getting it we go back and do the rest. We only covered half of the text last year- day 1 was intro to the lesson and some of set 1 for review, than number four of set 2. Next day we finished set 2. This year we are trying to finish it a little quicker. We even tried this yesterday- dd had ballet and wanted to make me a cake (who could say no to that!!!!), so I told her to teach herself the lesson than do the first question in each numbered question. The lesson was so easy and I knew my dd would get it no problem, so I just let her fly. That was a great day. Leaves us more time for the days like the combined rate/distance variable days (my that lesson was hard).
Disclaimer: I love math and think this book is top notch...I couldn't stomach another page of MUS or Steve Demme even though we have loved that series (but with four kids I was becoming thouroughly bored!!!).
Good heads up about Warriner's ...tell me when you find something!! (I haven't been using any text at all as our days have been like yours, where math and writing already take up the lion's share!).
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Martha
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| Posted: Oct 06 2009 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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jacobs is a top-notch alg book. not that helps a person if it isn't working for them tho, kwim?
We do a TON of math this year bc it's my son's hardest subject. We do the jacob's lesson, ALL of set 2 and the odd only of set 1 if he had problems, odd of set 3 is he still had problems grasping it. Plus he is reading LoF in his leisure time and doing a couple pages of Key to per day. We may or may not start in with saxon alg. so far not likely tho. threatening to pull that one down keeps him motivated with the jacobs/Lof/key to combo. 
Lials is working for the most part independentally with my 2nd son, who is better at math.
Seton english and reading is not a cake-walk, but everything is laid out very clearly and reasonable. I think many 9th graders could be handed the lesson plans and work 90% of it pretty independently unless they already have issues. If they do have issues, they can use the message board (it has a lot of kids that do that) or call seton, which I believe is the only catholic provider that offers:
Quote:
qualified teachers are available six days a week to answer your questions, from 8:30 AM to 12 midnight, Eastern Time. Teachers can help you with questions about your studies as well as helping you to plan your courses.
A teacher who can help is as close as your telephone, your fax machine or your computer (using e-mail or the message board). |
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I personally don't think I'll use that service very much, BUT it's nice to know that if I'm knee deep in whatever with younger siblings, or I don't get it, or he is just being a pain in the bum with my authority that day - I can tell him to call and work it out on his own. Which is certainly a skill they need to slowly, but surely, be developing over the next few years. Right? (Tell me that doesn't make me a horrible slacker meanie mom - please!?)
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teachingmyown
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Kristie,
I love math too, which makes it that much harder. I am sure I could have done Jacob's in my day, but my ability to concentrate is gone. Is it me, or does Jacob's take a more creative, round-about approach? I just remember Algebra being very straight-forward and I find myself having to read and re-read Jacob's.
The funny thing about the Warriner's is that I am sitting here telling her to dump it. She has had plenty of grammar and just needs writing instruction and practice. She is the one insistent upon it. She has this picture of what "high school" should look like. She times herself and grades her work, I grade the writing, and is completely stressed. I try telling her this is part of why we homeschool, to make it work for us. I have so many other writing programs but she is so stubborn. Seton may work because it will seem "official" to her.
Martha, you are not a meanie mom! Trust me, pushing them toward independence, especially the ability to seek out the answers from the appropriate source, is one of the best gifts you can give them. I have an 18 year old who is still learning this, sometimes at great pain to himself.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Bridget
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Molly, I agree that Seton's English 9 is a good choice. It's rigorous though. I would tell her at the beginning that it's meant to be spaced out over two years. That way some of the preasure is off.
The best self teaching math I've found is Teaching Textbooks. Pricey but well worth it for this math/time challenged mom.
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guitarnan
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Jensen's Format Writing is an excellent, very solidly-written book about expository writing. (Warriner's has some of the same types of exercises, at least my ancient 9th-grade textbook does...) It is very, very high school. The assignments are decently challenging without being random - the book starts with sentences and paragraphs and proceeds to different types of essays and other expository writing.
If she is well-grounded in grammar, but wants to continue working with it, perhaps something quick like Daily Grams or Easy Grammar would work?
I know it's more money on new books...but tears aren't good.
We used Jacob's and I wish we'd switched to Teaching Textbooks; it's a good program with many resources, much more student-friendly than Jacob's.
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MarieA
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My ds did Jacob's and MUS algebra last year. I put my dd into LoF algebra and will use the Jacob's and MUS for extra work. (If needed for her.) It is working very well for her. 
Marie
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Kristie 4
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Off topic, but, does Seton also use Warriner's in it's ninth grade english plans? If not, what do they use (or do they focus on Grammar for the formal sutff)? I looked extensively at the website but was still a little confused!
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Martha
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| Posted: Oct 07 2009 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
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Here's a list and link to what the 9th grade booklist for Seton.
They use Seton Press materials.
Wordly Wise 6
Included Literature Texts (These are sent with your shipment):
Lilies of the Field by William E. Barrett
Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls
Book Analysis List (One book per quarter must be acquired from a book store, library, or the SEM Department):
1st Quarter
The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane
The Light in the Forest by Conrad Richter
An Old-Fashioned Girl by Louisa May Alcott
2nd Quarter
A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
Cyrano de Bergerac by Edmund Rostand
4th Quarter
Shane by Jack Schaefer
The Bronze Bow by Elizabeth George Speare
The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway
Grammar and Composition 9
Grammar 9 for Young Catholics
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Karen T
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My son used Seton's English 9 two years ago and while the rest of those titles look familiar, I don't remember any grammar at all. We had just done Voyages in English 8 the year before (the old version, which I highly recommend for grammar) plus a year of The latin road to English Grammar, so I didn't worry about grammar in 9th grade 
To be honest, we never finished the course. It was the first and only Seton course we've tried, and while it is all laid out nicely, I felt like there was not enough writing instruction, and then a couple of large papers expected. I figured if we'd been doing Seton all along it would have prepared him more, but since we jumped into it, and the only writing instruction he'd had was the first IEW course (SWI-B) with little follow-up on my part afterward, it was not a good fit for him. The lit analysis and tests were good, though.
Karen T
p.s. We've used Teaching Textbooks for all of high school math with great success. I like math and don't mind helping when needed, but time-wise TT has been a lifesaver for me.
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vmalott
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How about another chime-in for Jensen's Format Writing? I love it and dd has found it easy to use on her own when she chooses to use it.
FWIW, I remember my 10th grade english teacher using a similar method to teach writing when I was in high school (college prep).
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StephanieA
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We have done Jacobs Algebra with 4 kids so far. Son #1 who has nearly a math major in college struggled with it. So we switched to Forester's. It clicked. Jacob's was too abstract. Sons #2 and #3 did Jacob's and enjoyed it. Daughter finished Jacob's last year. She is now doing a self-put together Chalkdust (bought for about $60 for the set) Algebra 2. She struggles with math, but finds it easy to understand than Jacob's.
Long story short....don't be afraid to get out of Jacob's. It just isn't some kid's style. Algebra can be learned with Foresters, Chalkdust, Lials or Teaching Texts (the easier of the choices). I won't/ don't spend time on math for kids ages 13 and up. I just don't have the time with 9 kids. So math HAS to be self-teaching here.
As far as grammar is concerned....rest assure your daughter that Catholic honor's English in prep schools do not do grammar....period. My sister-in-law heads the English department in a top 50 Catholic school and she says if a kid doesn't know grammar by 9th grade, then they need to be in a remedial class. By that time, they need to apply that grammar in their writing. Plus any foreign language that they are taking reinforces grammar.
That said, we review for a month basic grammar before the ACT, using ACT materials and diagnostic tests from Warriner's. That helps. But drilling grammar for grammar's sake in high school isn't necessary.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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wifemommy
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I really like Teaching Textbooks. It is great for self learners. I don't know about jacobs but it is better then Saxon. Annie
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ALmom
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The question about Seton and grammar in 9th - they've always had it, but if you took Latin, it wasn't required. They seem to be changing and writing more of their own texts now. I've liked the reading we've used with a younger child recently. It is much improved from when we did something similiar with our oldest over 10 years ago.
As far as self directed math - not much advice here. We have enjoyed Jacobs and Foersters. I hated Saxon Algebra, but it worked with one child and was the easiest to grade for a non - math parent.
As far as the writing and grammar. Personally, the best thing we ever did that has been a relief is to have someone else be their writing teacher. I use Kolbe for this because I can have my children submit papers from all kinds of places and Kolbe will still grade and comment on them (I'm signed up for their EES with my 2 highschoolers) and I tell them where I think my children are, what I think they need, etc. It has been a really huge burden lifted off of me - my children enjoy the outside input, and mom being cheerleader for this subject and they have a tendency to discuss more with me since I'm not the one looking at and commenting on their papers. I don't think it matters all that much who you get - as long as it is someone who will review what you want them writing about.
When it comes to grammar, I vote for single course enrollment with Seton. The counselor's are fantastic, respond immediately to all questions and our experience has been that they know just how to explain something. We are using Seton 7 grammar for our highschooler and planning to take whatever time we need for the concepts to sink in.
Janet
Janet
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Best self-teaching materials
