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MarilynW
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Has anyone ever considered this? A lot of Kim F's blog posts talk about the Swann family - and all their kids did college degrees at home - including Masters. Just interested to know what your views are?
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MarilynW
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Here is an article by Joyce Swann on college at home
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Tonya
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Honestly, I don't think that any of my children would have been ready to graduate highschool at age 11 as the article said the Swann family did! My ten year old twins are just getting to the point of being independent readers and I want them to still be able to build forts and catch salamanders. I think that even my quicker learners would have missed out on much if I had pushed them that much.
My older children have managed to have some of their college out of the way by the time they left for college by means of dual enrollment and AP classes. Honestly, by the time my children were 18, it was time for them to have a little bit of independence and they were getting antsy around our house. We have been blessed by our children getting scholarships. We would not have let them acquire a huge amount of debt just so that they could have moved away from home but we wouldn't keep them home just to shelter them. We feel that at some point our children have to take responsibility for their own lives. Hopefully we have raised them in a way that they understand and embrace our Faith and our values. So in answer to your question, unless a dire need arose, I wouldn't want to homeschool through college. I would rather wait until I can help homeschool the "littles" again by means of grandchildren (which may not happen for a long time, but I am still looking forwad to it!).
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MarilynW
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Thanks for your comment Tonya. I agree about the early age - my children would certainly not be ready - and I don't really see the point of children doing an undergraduate at 11 - I would think the whole point of an undergraduate was being 17 or older and dealing with age appropriate learning and living
BUT - I do wonder about doing college at home for large families. I loved college- undergrad and grad. (hey I met my husband there!!!) - and even though my parents could not pay for me I had no debt because I had scholarships and jobs. I would hope my children would do this too. I just do not want them graduating with a tower of debt. But I also wonder about the whole Catholic and faith aspect - what is best for the souls of our children?
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Mary G
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Marilyn,
I think this is an option to keep in the "pile" when the children are old enough to start thinking about their adult lives. I wouldn't rule it out ... but it would be up to my children as each is so very different and want such different things ....
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Martha
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well she says they basicly did "accelerated learning", which is a really fancy way of saying that by dedictating 3 - 4 hours every day to academics 12 months of the year they moved through much more than just 1 grade level in a given year.
I think that's completely doable for the average kid and leaves the other 21 hours of the day for whatever they would like, so I can't really say I think they'd miss out on having a childhood by doing it.
My biggest questions would be:
how did she schedule? for example it's pretty easy for most of us to assign 1 lesson a day, but obviously she didn't do that.
how did she motivate? the whole "do this lesson and be done with that for the day" element is gone. Then again, if that's all her kids know maybe it changed to "be done with these 3 lessons and be done with that for the day"?
funding, it may be cheaper than on site college, but it's also sans scholarships and payment plans and grants!
content - I can see an 11 yr old able to write and do the math and read the books. what I do have concern over is whether the child is ready for mature content topics that are found in the upper highschool, college level materials? I'd be interested in how she approached that aspect.
off to read more about her.
I had read about her some time ago, but it's been a few years. She inspired me to set up our academics to get or come close getting at least an associate degree by the time they graduate from highschool with us.
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Elizabeth
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I don't think it would be a good idea here, for all the reasons Tonya articulated.
On the whole, I'm not a huge fan of accelerating through childhood, academically or otherwise. There's a whole lot to be learned at every age and stage and academic knowledge is a small piece of the puzzle. It would be impossible for an 11-year-old to graduate from our "high school at home." He might be ready for college-level academic work, but he would not--could not--have mastered the life skills that my husband and I think are necessary for graduation, nor would he have had the time for the life experiences, both in fort building and salamander catching and in interpersonal relationships.
And, if we didn't accelerate, my children have been like Tonya's when they reach their late teens--they're itching for some independence and antsy to get out of the house. If we wanted to capitalize on the cost-cutting benefits of college at home, we'd probably combine it with real work for pay outside the home. Again, we'd only do that with grown kids.
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MarilynW
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Martha wrote:
off to read more about her.
I had read about her some time ago, but it's been a few years. She inspired me to set up our academics to get or come close getting at least an associate degree by the time they graduate from highschool with us.
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Actually Martha - reading Joyce Swann depresses me a little! I don't understand how she could do everything she did with 13 kids in 10 years. Her articles on keeping everyone together in one room and finishing school by noon - are just undoable to me. Right now I can hardly get dressed before 11 am - and school happens at different times of the day! 
The other thing is Kim's post about the reading everything and reviewing everything - I try to do this - but all my children are different - I will not be using the same materials that Abby is reading for the twins and again may use different methods for the younger ones. Unlike the Swanns and others who use the same program for all the children
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MarilynW
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Elizabeth wrote:
On the whole, I'm not a huge fan of accelerating through childhood, academically or otherwise. |
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Elizabeth - I totally agree with you. As discussed earlier - even if my dd could handle high school work academically - she is such a little girl - playing with her dolls still and excited about having a new sister to do "little girl" things with. We do "shelter" and her experience of the "world" is certainly not that of a high schooler - and I am quite happy to preserve this for as long as possible.
My question here though is for 18 year olds - is doing college from home a viable option? I don't have teenagers yet - so cannot really give an opinion. I just wonder what the world will be like when the children are ready for college. But then dh and I went to one of the most liberal, pro-everything contrary to the family and God universities in England - and it not do us much harm!!!
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Martha
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MarilynW wrote:
Actually Martha - reading Joyce Swann depresses me a little! I don't understand how she could do everything she did with 13 kids in 10 years. Her articles on keeping everyone together in one room and finishing school by noon - are just undoable to me. Right now I can hardly get dressed before 11 am - and school happens at different times of the day! |
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LOL I can understand that. Thing is, I can totally picture it and already do much of it. Most of her recommendations are simple survival skills with so many children. I keep all the kids at one table until they demonstrate the ability to complete the same amount of quality work without me. And when that changes, they are brought back to the table. And up until 2 years ago, we didn't have the luxery of having a home big enough for them to be in a seperate room anyways. This makes it easier for my to keep them motivated and answer questions.
And I've recently kind of cracked down on our mornings being off-limits on the calendar. We need to set aside 3 hours at least to get through our work without getting stressed by interruptions to our learning and thought processes. I can picture that if I dedicated more seriously to that time, we'd certain ly make more progress.
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| The other thing is Kim's post about the reading everything and reviewing everything - I try to do this - but all my children are different - I will not be using the same materials |
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This I agree with too. I know I haven't and probably never will use the same material for every kid. I don't think a person has to do it exactly like Mrs. Swann did. And I don't neccessarily think it has to be the same for all the kids either. I honestly think it's about the dedictation of time more than anything else. Second to that, is probably the plan of action - using trusted, time proven matierals, and having them laid out so there's no "what's next?!" phase. Even if the materials aren't the same for each kid or the same provider, having a plan of action can be very helpful.
With my first I don't have that. All the curriculum was/is new to me. But for my others? I have a layout of materials I've used and would use again for each subject in each grade and an idea of where they need to be in order to use it. There's no way I could move my oldest along fast enough at this point to get a masters by 16. but I can see having an associates or een a bachlors by 18 or 19.
I don't tie up their mental/academic abilities with their emotional or physical abilities. To me, they do what they can in those areas when they can. We simply progress along the line (as Swann describes it) at a steady pace. I would think once a parent reaches a point where the child is not progressing for some reason, they will have no choice but to stop and focus for a time until the child is able to continue to progress?
I would be interested to know how Mrs Swann dealt with those periods for her children? (and I'm sure she did have them)
Don't get me wrong, I don't think accelerated learning is for everyone, not even sure it's for me, just saying I don't neccessarily think she's hurting her kids childhood either.  I really like the idea because I think it coudl enhance my kids childhood to have concentrated schooling and more time (in general and when graduated) to simply enjoy exploring thier interests and talents.
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ALmom
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Ok, I don't know about you guys but one of the biggest things my children missed in homeschooling was the dynamics of discussion in a classroom, large labs with complicated equipment, real experts in their field of interest for mentors, enough volume of people to put on a play, etc. Some of this we filled as best we could with community things (theater, etc) but for most of the time we don't have enough volume around here to have classes, etc. My children were certainly itching to have someone other than family to discuss and study with. Distance learning is really not the best way to go, I don't believe, except in some subjects where things are pretty black and white. Just my opinion.
My children were itching for a classroom experience with real people to discuss and test their debate skills with - not more of mom or more learn it by myself. They wanted to rub shoulders with a wider variety of folks - and were ready to face that. There comes a time when it is just time to leave the nest.
Just my 2 cents without reading the article  . I don't have a problem going at the appropriate pace academically - but when you graduate them, there is a psychological change in the childrens minds. We would work at the appropriate academic level and I'm sure, at 11, I wouldn't be sending my children out to brick and mortar colleges - maybe a course or two in subjects that are not as discussion oriented. Of course this is a moot point in our house - most of mine don't read until close to 10 no matter how much effort or time or organization we put into our day, so they wouldn't be going anywhere at 11. Of course, they are fully capable of a full college load and not "behind" by the time they are 16- 19 so it isn't a matter of how quickly you can go through material if you learn it deeply and well the first time.
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Martha
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hmm, 9 kids close in age = plenty for most plays. 
but I see your point, esp for smaller families.
withthe exception of large science equipment, I've never felt a loss homeschooling YET.
we talk to people all the time and I can only imagine as the kids get older they will talk to a wider circle of people, regardless of when or where they are studying?
not that any of my thoughts matter b/c like most of you - I'm not too horribly keen on pushing for a masters degree for all my kids (or even my oldest 2!) by the age 16.
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Well, I am certain you could do college at home, especially in a few years, as more and more colleges are developing on-line courses and degrees. A more difficult questions is: would you want to? Every child is different, and your children will change a lot in the next few years. By the time my older boys left for college, we were all ready for that separation. It was evident that it was time for them to be on their own and take responsibility for their own lives. I'm pretty sure that it will be obvious to you when it is time to part ways. I do think that with boys it is a little harder to keep them home than with girls. You might want to look into this as an option, but wait until they are at least sophomores/juniors in high school to really make an informed decision.
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I know this is a little off topic but I ran into a friend of mine at the store this evening. Her oldest daughter (my Corey's age) is expecting their first grandbaby this November.
She attends the local college and will not graduate until next spring. All her fall classes (she'll be taking 4) will be online classes so she'll be home during the last months of her pregnancy and not have to worry about sitting out a semester or missing and making up classes.
Another wonderful way people can get an education (at least the credits and degree ) while still being home.
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Bookswithtea
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I read an article about this recently in The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. The article was written by two brothers who made this choice as 18 yr olds, unlike the Swann's. These young men worked a lot of hours in jobs related to their chosen fields, volunteered etc, and then took online classes as well. Their mommies were not homeschooling them any more than any other student who may have a family, work all day long and then take a class or two at night. They spoke of the ability to get real work experience, which is good for a resume, the lower cost and reduced debt load, and the ability to stay within their faith community (prot. mag). I found the article very very interesting, and I have filed the idea in the back of my head as an option that seems workable. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of the idea of sending a child far from home for 4 yrs to college. I think there are lots of other options that still provide independence, which I think is critical. And I have zero desire to participate in a grown child's adult level education.  But as some others have mentioned, every child is different, so I wouldn't rule out online learning or going "away" to college, entirely. However, I wouldn't encourage my child to do anything that accumulated a lot of debt. That is a huge part of the equation, for us.
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What is the point of getting a Masters by the age of 16? I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of job that would lead to. What are the Swann kids doing now with their liberal arts degrees?
For instance, if I had a Masters in my field (Elem. Ed.) at the age of 16 I just don't see any schools employing me. I graduated high school two years early, took a year off and then hit college, did fine but was still younger by a bit when it was time to hit the job market and youth did not do me any favors there.
My dh does have a Masters in Aviation Safety and again I just don't see the point of pushing through to get that done by 16 because I just don't see who is going to hire a 16 year old in that field either. In fact, I just don't see how a 16 year old could possibly accomplish that workload at all because working backwards, it was a two year program so the kid would have to start it at 14 meaning he'd have to graduate college by 14 high enough to be accepted into the Masters program. But maybe Aviation Safety isn't a good example since that isn't one that can be accomplished by sitting at home in front of the computer? Way too much field work involved and again with the teaching! My dh was the TA and wrote curriculum and such as well as teaching classes and I just can't picture a 16 year old running a classroom full of adults.
I don't get it. ???
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Cay Gibson
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marihalojen wrote:
What is the point of getting a Masters by the age of 16?
I don't get it. ??? |
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Me either, Jennifer. It's nice to be in the same ballpark as you though. 
It almost makes it sound like "Let's hurry and get your schooling/education/learning out of the way so you can go on to doing what you like/want to do."
If that is so, where does that leave us old ladies who, in our 30s, 40s, and 50s are just now learning the thrill of learning and the excitment of it being something we can enjoy for the rest of our lives?
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Cay Gibson wrote:
If that is so, where does that leave us old ladies who, in our 30s, 40s, and 50s are just now... |
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My apologies.
of course I meant "...us young ladies..."
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CrunchyMom
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| It almost makes it sound like "Let's hurry and get your schooling/education/learning out of the way so you can go on to doing what you like/want to do." |
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Or it could be just a way of jumpstarting further education? I know a man who has two degrees--one in music and one in physics. He says he has his physics degree to feed his family and his music degree to feed his soul. So, perhaps it would give a person the freedom to pursue a technical degree once reaching the age of leaving home without sacrificing completely the liberal arts that do so much for a person's soul.
Also, what about people who are interested in trades but would benefit from a liberals arts degree, too. My husband has his bachelor's in economics, but his recent years, he has taken classes at the local trade school and started doing carpentry on the side.
Now, I think he might prefer working in the trades to a desk job, but there is no way he could really support us while spending the years working as an apprentice that it takes to get certified (as for an electrician). However, I don't think he regrets college either!
Really, I've never really thought about having my kids do college at home like this, but these were just my initial thoughts when reading the thread. It doesn't have to mean that your 16 year old with a master's degree has to go get a job right away, sit and twiddle his thumbs, or stop getting degrees then. It seems it could open up a lot of options.
While typing this, my first thought was to Condoleeza Rice's education. This is from her Wikipedia Entry. Not sure how she went about getting her earlier degrees, but having studied so much at an early age seems to have been a good thing in her case.
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Early education
Rice started learning French, music, figure skating and ballet at age three.[6] At age 15, she began classes with the goal of becoming a concert pianist. Her plans changed when she realized that she did not play well enough to support herself through music alone.[7] While Rice is not a professional pianist, she still practices often and plays with a chamber music group. Rice made use of her pianist training to accompany cellist Yo-Yo Ma for Brahms's Violin Sonata in D Minor at Constitution Hall in April 2002 for the National Medal of Arts Awards.[8]
High school and university education
In 1967, the family moved to Denver, Colorado. She attended St. Mary's Academy, a private all-girls Catholic high school in Cherry Hills Village, Colorado. After studying piano at the Aspen Music Festival and School, Rice enrolled at the University of Denver, where her father both served as an assistant dean and taught a class called "The Black Experience in America." Dean John Rice opposed institutional racism, government oppression, and the Vietnam War.
Rice attended a course on international politics taught by Josef Korbel, the father of future Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. This experience sparked her interest in the Soviet Union and international relations and made her call Korbel "one of the most central figures in my life."[9]
Rice graduated from St. Mary's Academy in 1970. In 1974, at age 19, Rice earned her BA in political science, Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver. In 1975, she obtained her Master's Degree in political science from the University of Notre Dame. She first worked in the State Department in 1977, during the Carter administration, as an intern in the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. In 1981, at the age of 26, she received her PhD in Political Science from the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver. Her dissertation along with some of her earliest publications, centered on military policy and politics in Czechoslovakia. |
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All that said--I have a hard time imagining that happening in our home. My almost five year old doesn't even know all his letters.
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: College at home?
