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Natalia
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Books post on high school and the fact that we are getting to the mid point on my dd's 7th grade year has got me thinking about what our plans are. To tell the truth I don't even know where to start. When we started hsing 7 years ago, I thought I would only do it through 8th grade because I never thought hsing hs was possible. The more I read about it and the more I "listen" to your conversations, the more I feel that I would like to hs. But, I don't think I can just make a decision without giving traditional hs a chance - meaning considering it. My dh, who has always been very supportive of hsing, has some reservations about hsing hs. He worries about higher math and science - labs and things like that. He also worries about the intense emotions that can be present between my dd and I. Then there is Gabi. She says that she would like to go to hs just to see was is like. I worry about isolating her. There are not very many Catholic hsers here and the ones that do hs usually only do it until 8th grade.
As you know I am not American and I am not familiar with the American High School system. To give traditional high school a fair consideration, i feel that I need to know more about it. But I don't know where to begin.
Any suggestions? Also regarding hsing hs, where did you start looking into your options? When you made the decision to hs, what did you based your decision on? Was it academics? or the personality of your child? or faith issues? or what? When you were trying to decide about what to do for hs did you follow a certain process? could you share it with me?
Thanks,
Natalia
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Leonie
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Natalia,
I am sure that responses will vary.
It has really helped me to read books about homeschooling high schoolers, recommended curricula, etc.
For high school homeschooling,I have liked Debra Bell's book - The Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling; Alison Mckee's Homeschooling Our Children,Unschooling Ourselves; Laura Berquest's DYOCC; TWTM; Valerie Bendt's Unit Studies book; Real Lives by Grace Llewellyn.
Homeschooling - for high school and other - has been both an academics and lifestyle decision for us.Relationship wise, homeschooling has seemed the best option in our family.
I wrote this recently for an interview about homeschooling older children and thought I'd share the excerpt -
"One thing I discovered ( I am a slow learner) is that a son at thirteen is not the same son at fifteen or sixteen or eighteen! So, my best advice is to relax and not have great expectations that - now I have a teen and I or he/she should be doing THIS. And then feeling bad if my child seems to do less than others I read about .
I had those fears - but really, the teen years are growth years and a son who looked unacademic at thirteen has surprised me, its happened twice now, with being into academics at a later age.
So, I would say - just keep on with what you have been doing that works and remind yourself that you and your teen have years of growth and God's Grace. "
HTH!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Bookswithtea
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***"One thing I discovered ( I am a slow learner) is that a son at thirteen is not the same son at fifteen or sixteen or eighteen! So, my best advice is to relax and not have great expectations that - now I have a teen and I or he/she should be doing THIS. And then feeling bad if my child seems to do less than others I read about .
I had those fears - but really, the teen years are growth years and a son who looked unacademic at thirteen has surprised me, its happened twice now, with being into academics at a later age. ***[/QUOTE]
Thank you for this! I have been wondering about my ds...not really sure how to gauge him. You've given me great encouragement that what I see now may change as time progresses.
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Leonie
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BWT, I tend to get locked into the here and now and think things and children will always be as they are now.
But, as I said, two of my sons have surprised me by becoming more academi.c as time went on. than they seemed to be at age twelve or thirteen.
I now remind myself of this - we are all still works in progress! 
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Leonie in Sydney
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Natalia
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Leonie wrote:
For high school homeschooling,I have liked Debra Bell's book - The Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling; Alison Mckee's Homeschooling Our Children,Unschooling Ourselves; Laura Berquest's DYOCC; TWTM; Valerie Bendt's Unit Studies book; Real Lives by Grace Llewellyn. |
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Leonie, thanks for the recommendations. That is partially what I am looking for- I always start any kind of decision by reading books ;-)
Leonie wrote:
Homeschooling - for high school and other - has been both an academics and lifestyle decision for us.Relationship wise, homeschooling has seemed the best option in our family.
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How much input did your children had in that decision? If your children didn't want to homeschool, would you have continued? I think that is where I waver. Right now I think my dd could go either way. But, if she were to strongly oppose hsing, I don't know that I feel so strongly about it that I can go against her wishes. That is why I need to read more on the topic. I guess that I need to convince myself first about what route I want to take.
Leonie wrote:
"One thing I discovered ( I am a slow learner) is that a son at thirteen is not the same son at fifteen or sixteen or eighteen! So, my best advice is to relax and not have great expectations that - now I have a teen and I or he/she should be doing THIS. And then feeling bad if my child seems to do less than others I read about . |
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You know I sometimes think that one of the reasons I want to homeschool high school is because I have read some many marvelous accounts of what teens that are hsed do and can do. And that is a wrong motive, I think, because it measures my dc against somebody else's kids. I have found that the hardest thing for me is to let go of my ideals and expectations for my kids. You are right about the teen years being growth years- that is a good reminder.
Thanks again,
Natalia
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Leonie
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Natalia,
None of my kids have wanted to go to school - for high school or primary ( elementary) school. They see that they have more freedom and choice than their schooled peers.
I *think that if they did want school, we would try to talk about their reasons and try first to find non school solutions. Just because dh and I feel so positive about homeschooling. I guess I would try to be pro-active and head things off before it came to a decision - always looking for ways to involve the dc in our homeschooling decisions, to build on their interests, to meet social needs, to hang out together, reach their hearts, pray!
This is not to say that sending kids to high school os wrong. it is just that I am a strong hs supporter, especially for our family! 
My older kids all read several hs books, as part of their high school homeschooling. My current sixteen year old has done the same - these books have helped to share our vision, I think.
I also do a big sell on hsing in the early years - isn't it fun - we are at the park or beach for nature study with friends and others are in school!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Cay Gibson
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Leonie wrote:
| My older kids all read several hs books, as part of their high school homeschooling. My current sixteen year old has done the same - these books have helped to share our vision, I think. |
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Leonie,
I seem to remember asking you once before (or you posted to someone else) a list of these books. Naturally, I can't find the list.
Could you please share...again!!! ? 
Thanks!
Btw, I'm posting another question to you under Real Learning since it deals with something you wrote in this post but doesn't deal with teenagers. 
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Leonie
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Cay,
I am supposed to be working on a newsletter but just decided to check the 4real board! Naughty!
Anyway, my current sixteen year old has read
* The Day I became An Autodidact by Kendall Hailey
* Real Lives - Interviews with 11 teenagers who don't go to school by Grace Llewellyn
The older boys read the Autodidact one plus
*TWTM ( the philosophy parts - lead to really interesting discussions)
* Some books by John Holt
* Parts of Homeward Bound :Catholic Homeschooling by the Hahns
Probably others that I don't recall! lol!
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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ALmom
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Our dd wanted to see what school was like and at 13 really felt like we should have let her go to high school instead of hs. Our area also involved most going to school for hs (at least among homeschooling Catholics, which was a small group anyways).
We chose to make the decision for her - as we felt that she was still too vulnerable to peer pressure and we were very committed to hs for religious(not that it is required but we felt we could most adequately fulfill our responsibilities as Catholic parents through hs) and family unity reasons. We had a rough first year but as she got more involved in her own area of interests, she has begun to see that her love of music developed because of homeschooling. I don't think we would have had the time to allow her all those music lessons and activities without hs and she may not have even discovered her passion - she sees this now.
In America, each region has its own unique education issues so you really have to investigate the local school. In our area there are not too many private schools and they are very costly and sort of "high society" schools which we would not fit into very well with our 6 - plus no way could we afford them even with scholarships. Some of the issues that come up - drugs, sex-ed (disguised sometimes in science or health), DARE, SCAN programs, etc. You have academic classes, but the big draw for our dd was the various clubs - it is a whole social identification/belonging to a group type of thing with football teams and pep rallies and local rivalries between schools, German clubs, drama, band, yearbook, graduation ceremonies and honor societies and the status of taking 5 AP courses. There is intense pressure to be just like everyone else (everyone dresses in an identical manner, the same hair styles, etc. ,etc. and any differences can be brutally attacked - either by exclusion or teasing or being picked on. If dc is very academically strong, it may not be quite as intense as there is generally a clique of "gifted" students that compete on the math team and scholars bowl, etc. and generally aren't exposed to as much of the drug pressure etc. and are left alone by the rest and generally get more attention from the teachers. Every region may be very different, too.
I have learned a lot with our first. I cannot do lab sciences in an adequate way at home. Other dc will enroll at the university/Jr college for these courses (Jr college courses are generally equivalent of advanced high school courses at least in our area)or find a co-op for this. We used a tutor for foreign languages as neither my dh or I felt adequate here.
I think at high school you do start reaching out for more outside help - but do not necessarily have to get it from the local school. It is helpful to the dc attitude if they can find a passion to follow that involves them working with other peers trying for a common goal. We also found that our dd really did want some of the traditional hoopla associated with graduation - a reason to go out and get a fancy dress, some special ceremony with cap and gown to mark the moment of graduation, etc. By communicating and working with her, we were able to make homeschooling hs an overall positive experience. Having that extra few years to work through things together, to guide and such while she was still around more than she was with peers, I think, has been a real blessing.
Knowing that we were still letting go more and more even though we were hs high school did help. I think her initial resistance may have been that both of us were trying to figure out how our relationship was changing since she was no longer a little girl - but not quite a full adult either. Her fear, I think, was that we would continue to treat her like the younger dc while she needed to test her wings (a regular high school seemed to her to be a place for this while home seemed like it would keep her from it). Knowing that we still allowed her to test her wings some (with a safety net as was prudent, etc.) helped her accept homeschooling.
The other area that was difficult the first time around was finding out what to do for high school - and not being able to discuss as much etc. I really do think that some co-op classes or discussion time with a small group of people would have helped. Also having a plan for 4 years as a guide would have given dd some security in what we were doing - and involving her in course selection that first year with some input from her as to what did and did not work. Even if I had made a priority to discuss her subjects more thouroughly with her - rather than an isolated teach herself would have helped. When we were too emotionally knocking heads, it did help to have an outside curriculum advisor/plan to help us out.
We will homeschool high school with our others but I know now a few more things to do - get the information about when and how to apply for colleges, do entrance exams, what all the different tests are about, what is available to homeschoolers in the local community - before beginning high school. I didn't know that SAT test scores were required to duel enroll so we weren't able to do that until SR year (we didn't take our first SAT until the summer after her Jr year - really late, we should have done it much sooner). We also had planned to do languages at the college but found out you had to have language in high school first. Our area also only gives 1/2 high school credit for a full credit college course, but they get full college credit for the course at the same time. If we'd known some of this dd would have started languages earlier and just taken more. My ds in another area, just signed dc up for courses, paid the bill and it was no big deal. You just have to find out how things work in your area and knowing it at the beginning (with all the requirements) means you can plan better. I would also have a 4 year map - (it doesn't have to be locked in concrete and certainly changes as dc goals do) but this will incorporate what you and dc have decided is important, as well as how to meet requirements for goals, etc. and will give a calm sense of "hey we know what we are doing". Don't make tons of changes to the curriculum midyear - change something that truely is a disaster but the less changes, the more secure our dd felt (we did so many that I think some of her stress was that it was obvious we had no idea what we were doing and were insecure ourselves). We could adjust at the end of the year - and tweak our 4 year plan.
We have had so much time together as a family and a lot of formation and values become more locked in during those early high school years when the dc is trying to make them their own that the home environment, in our opinion, helped them to do this most effectively with the best loving guidance (even if mom and dad are very flawed). The peer pressure in high school is very intense - they still get it homeschooling, but family support remains a more important influence with the time involved in or out of the home. But we found this to be a delicate balance (it is just with homeschooling you are more able to allow for the amount that is suited for the individual dc and are more able to offer support and quickly make adjustments - as you are still very much involved in the whole process) If we were allowing too much time away before readiness, we would often see a real succumbing to peer pressure, if we were not allowing enough independence we found a real resistance
that often became expressed as a dislike of homeschooling
We found that homeschooling high school was a real learning experience for us all - but also made the teen years overall very enjoyable for us both despite some rough spots here and there.
Even if you do not plan to use a standard curriculum provider, it is sometimes helpful to look at the various requirements they have set out - Seton gives you an idea of what a typical 1950s American Catholic high school might have looked like academcially. Kolbe/MODG provides a look at a typical course outlay for a classical approach and I am sure other moms could give you web pages or samples of what unschooling high school or other more laid back approaches (we are honestly not as familiar with these and have just bumbled around with our first highschooler. If we can manage it, I know anyone can!!
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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Leonie,
Philosophically, how do you moderate your children reading the Grace LLlewellyn books that are soooooo individualist by adding in some community/choosing to do what is best for the group type values?
I love some of the ideas and philosophy behind unschooling, but I confess, the unschooled teens I have known are quite self centered and don't seem to *get* that they will sometimes have to do things that they don't want to do, to get to a higher goal, or just because its what is best for the group, versus themselves. "Rugged individualism" is rampant in America and pervades everything. Its a real concern of mine.
I know that not all unschoolers are like this, but I don't know how to follow the method while downplaying this aspect of unschooling. Is there something I'm missing?
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Natalia
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Janet,
I don't have time to comment right now but I didn't want another day go by without telling you that I so appreciate your post. You seem to understand my desire for detail and for starting at the beginning so to speak. A plan is forming in my head as what to do.
First thing I need to sort out my own feelings about homeschooling high school. I feel ambivalent about it. The funny thing is not the academics that bother me. I know that if needed be I can find outside help for the things we can't do on our own. I think I am afraid of depraving my child of the "social" aspect of high school without having anything to offer her in return. I also need to make sure that I don't hschool because I want to produce a child like so of you talk about ( academically self directed, with deep interests, love to read, etc) because it might or might not be the case. So some soul searching is needed on my part.
Second, I need to do some research about what there is available to us in our community both as hschooler and as public or private school. I have
to do a lot of tallking with my dh and a lot of reading.
Thanks Leonie for the recommendations and if anybody else has some more books suggestions please share.
Natalia~who thought didn't have enough time to comment
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Leonie
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The Grace Llwellyn books we have read are the two books of interviews - Real Lives and the African American Homeschoolers one.
Many of the the people interveiwed in these books do a lot of volunteer work - playing music at nursing homes, building homes for Houses for Humanity, being involved in church events.
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Leonie in Sydney
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ALmom
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Natalia, Do you know what attracts your dc to public school - that may be a clue to what kinds of alternatives you might be looking for? Also do you see any particular talents or interests that stand out? IE if I had a dc that was absolutely passionate about drama, I'd be sure to find something in that line for them (even if I had to scrimp for it) or it is going to be tough when she hears about school plays from her friends (and goes to see their productions)and feels like had to give it up to homeschool. Our dd really was sad about not having a graduation (she was the only Sr at the beginning of the year). At first we didn't quite know what the deal was as we do have a graduation - but it had always been more informal with no cap and gown, no procession to the standard Pomp and Circumstance. When she realized we'd get her a cap and gown, it was her graduation so our family would plan it accordingly and we could make it a more formal affair - including scheduling it right after Mass so that people will tend to come more dressed up. We also decided to get a lady to teach ball-room dancing to us after graduation, and then do some ball room dancing (she felt she was missing so much by not having a prom and this fits that bill to both our satisfaction. We are planning a Senior recital with the help of her music teachers - which gave her an excuse to get and wear a fancy long dress.
The funny thing is the reason the graduation had been so informal up to this point has been that it was always one or two boys that were graduating - and they were so relieved they didn't have to mess with a formal affair. So depending on the dc, you may find that you need less "social" stuff than you think.
The real need is learning to serve, being able to make and be friends, the opportunities to follow your passions, and some folks to discuss and share ideas with at that high school stage of learning (whether it is just a friend that loves to read - and so do you- so you spend a bunch of time analyzing and discussing books informally OR a more formal discussion group/literature class. These things are so individual - so the first step seems to be getting to know the dc even better and really eliciting their input about what they think they need (while mom and dad listen, pray and discern and help dc arrive at a good assessment of real needs).
This is not a homeschooling book, but it is a great read for re-evaluating communication skills and I find that reviewing it periodically helps me be a better listener (not a great strength here) - How to Talk so Kids will Listen and How to Listen so Kids will Talk.
The best source for information about what is available locally are other homeschooling moms/organizations in your area. We found out about an awesome science club when we were looking into something else. A group of Protestant ladies seemed to know every opportunity in this area. A lot of these do not require any association with a particular group - individuals that have stepped forward and are teaching a class, etc. for all homeschoolers in the area. They fill up fast and I didn't find out about them in time for our oldest, but we did the first group thing they offered since she gives priority to any families that have done a class with her before - and I was thinking ahead to high school for others in the family. There is also a chorus, band, English classes,debate, athletics (all homeschoolers and open to all homeschoolers - not a co-op). Then there are co-ops, cover schools, etc. that offer drama, foreign language classes, math teams, academic teams,and a ton of other stuff. Then there are community chorus, orchestra, children's theatre, etc.
Some things are very reasonably priced, others are pricey. Some require membership with a certain school or church, some do not. Some homeschool groups/ support networks may even have lists of what it available and the contact person as does the local chamber of commerce (for community opportunities)
Hope this helps.
Janet
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Bookswithtea
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Leonie wrote:
The Grace Llwellyn books we have read are the two books of interviews - Real Lives and the African American Homeschoolers one.
Many of the the people interveiwed in these books do a lot of volunteer work - playing music at nursing homes, building homes for Houses for Humanity, being involved in church events. |
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Thank you! I will see if I can find these books locally and take a look. Sounds good!
~Books
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Where should I start?
