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albeto
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Speaking with someone at a living history event a coupld days ago, I was chatting with the lady showing us how wool was spun. Somehow High School Musical came up and I mentioned my kids were too young to get caught up in it (okay, so my 13 yo was standing nearby but he is completely uninterested). The woman said she was a middle school teacher and all the kids in her school from 1st grade have been caught up in it, as she looks at my 8 yo. I'm not sure if what I felt was irritation that my kids aren't "typical" (ah, the lovely emotions that come with raising a special needs child) or more snobbish because my kids were "above all that" (emotional sour-grapes compensation for raising a special needs child).
Somewhere around here Cactus Mouse mentioned the idea that in our culture we expect our teens to be moody and withdrawn and irritable all the time. Because we expect it we tollerate it. I can't find where she said that exactly but its stuck with me all weekend. My oldest is 13 and has Asperger's so he's not typical at all. My next oldes turns 11 this Friday but because she lives in a home with an unpredictable Aspie, she's not so typical either. She is more anxious than her peers in general and isn't courageous (meaning, I don't expect her to be a daredevil as she ages, but I've been wrong before).
In any case, I'm wondering if Laura's comments weren't right on the money - do we expect less of our teens simply because we've learned to tollerate it, perhaps because parents tend to be busy and in our culture, constantly celebrating self-gratification, we tend to miss what is going on in our own family?
I guess what I'm really asking for is assurance that as my kids approach their teen years, I don't have to sit back and expect rude, dismissive, self-absorbed behavior, rolling of the eyes and snide comments. The primary differences I see between my kids and my neices and nephews, besides age, is faith which includes proactive consideration of how we treat others. But my kids are not yet teens so I could be waaay off. Could you share some of the things you do with your older kids so help against the habits of self-absorbtion (which, I think lends itself to self-pity), apathy, rudeness?
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guitarnan
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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While I will usually wave aside one snide comment from my teen, especially if I know he is tired or worried, I won't let him make endless rude remarks. We try very hard to emphasize respect and kindness. Normally I point out that the comment was disrespectful or unkind and that's all it takes. Sometimes (when ds is tired or worried) he takes out his own issues on me and I end up having to discuss his behavior with him in more detail.
My daughter (10) is already experiencing the beginnings of the teen hormone rush, and she's more likely to whine, roll eyes, demand things, etc. than my teen is. I have had to set behavioral boundaries for her (earlier than I did for teen son) and I expect many struggles as the years pass.
One thing that helps me to handle this issue is making sure everyone (self included) gets enough sleep. Tired kids are just less able to control their emotions and behavior.
We owe it to our kids to teach them self-control - that way they can walk away from temptation, stick to a budget, and treat others according to the Golden Rule, and they'll know it's possible to deny the self now in favor of heavenly glory later. I think expecting respect and kindness is part of this process.
I hope others chime in - this is a great topic.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Maddie
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I wish I had more time, but this article was especially helpful to me. There is a myth that teens must be self-aborbed, moody, etc. I don't buy it. 
The Teen Myth
Dr. Epstein's book looks good too, I may try to interlibrary loan it.
The Case Against Adolescence
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TracyQ
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For us, the time has come. I knew it would be here one day, but when they were 5, 3, and a newborn, it seemed so far away! ALL THREE of our children are TEENS now! Jake will be 18 August 28th, Zach just turned 16 July 6th, and Sarah was 13 this past April. How in the WORLD did that happen???  
Well, I'd like to say we have been able to enter this time in our life with absolutely NO eye rolling, NO snide remarks, NO moodiness, NO selfishness,or NO being withdrawn, and for some, maybe it did happen. But for all three of my wonderful and fantastic teens, that's not the case. I think there are so many hormones that bounce around at this age, SOME of this is inevitable. We do have to expect that they will be going through change, because it's how God created it to be. BUT, NO, we don't have to allow them to take over our homes with bad attitudes, eye rolling, disrespect, and nasty speak.
We've taught our kids respect for each other, respect for us, and respect for others. We've taught them manners all their life, and to THINK about how their actions affect other people.......compassion. We've taught them to the best of our ability how important FAMILY is, and how to be loyal, pleasant, disciplined young men and woman, and faithful to God in our precious Church. Because of that, life with three teens has been really WONDERFUL most days, tolerable on our bad days, and possible on the worst days.
Sure, there are times I mourn my children's youth (many times actually), because I want the chance to do it all again! And there are MANY things I'd do better, I'm sure. But mostly, I love every single minute of watching them grow into the extremely unique, beautiful, special young men and woman God has made them to be. If you keep that perspective, you'll be just fine.
This is what I've learned so far about being the parent of three teens at once...that the most important things are, (though of course, I'm no expert, and I'm definitely still learning)......
1~RELATIONSHIP- always keep the doors of communication
open, and make sure your children know you love them no matter what! Make sure they understand you know they will make bad choices, and that like Jesus, you will forgive them, and will be there to help them. I've learned if I'm overly critical, or if they're afraid to come to me, they won't. The doors of communication will be closed to me, and our relationship will also be fractured. Many things are much bigger to our teens that aren't as big to us, so we need to be there to be understanding that it's important to them, and be there to talk. That way, when the REALLY big things do come up, they'll trust us to come to us then as well.
2~CONSISTENCY is KEY, but FLEXIBLITY is as well- they need to know, and WANT to know what our expectations are, and why. *Because I said so* is no longer acceptable at this age. They want to know why we expect it, and want to hear our reasons. They are beginning to have opinions of their own, and want make sure we hear their thoughts and reasons as well. Sometimes in doing this, I've been able to see their point (they're good debaters), and have been able to come to a more acceptable agreement for both their father and I, and them. This isn't giving in, it's trying to build relationship, and give them the tools they need to discern what's best for their life, while they are still listening to what we have to say, which is important at this time in their life. However, I've also been able to help them to see OUR point better in a more loving, compassionate way, rather than a *It's our way or the highway* type of ultimatum.
3~ EXPECT RESPECT!- yes, this is something that can get the better of you if you don't nip it in the bud, but I try to remember that they are gaining an "adult type" of humor, etc., so they're testing a bit to see how *adult* they're allowed to be at certain times. They are becoming young adults, then adults in our home, so they will change, and our relationship will then gradually change as well. I try to pick the RIGHT time to have talks about the way they may have mistreated myself or a sibling, etc., and not call them out our yell at them in front of others, and embarass them. I try to do it respecfully, and make them understand how it may have hurt, etc. I don't have to yell, or criticize, but only mention it, and then discuss it, and remind them that if they want to be respected, they really need to be respectful. This has really worked well for us, and changed bad habits......discussion, respect, and understanding works wonders! Most things do not become a huge deal because we use this method. We also try to pick what's most important (pick your battles so to speak), and not obsess over the things that aren't as important.
4~ EVERY PERSON IS VERY UNIQUE!- Every single one of our children is different, and therefore as parenting them all the same didn't work when they were growing up as children, parenting them the same as they grow into young adults and adults doesn't work either. We pray, and discern for each child what the Lord would have us do to parent them.
5~ PARENT to the HEART!- This works for every one of them. Because they're home all the time, we've gotten to know their hearts, and so we can parent them to their heart, and allow the Holy Spirit to help us discern what each one needs. When I speak to them about difficult things, I remind them that one day, my husband and I will stand before the Lord, and answer for how we raised each of them for His Glory and purpose! I explain to them that I am NOT willing to stand before the Lord and have to explain why I allowed their behavior which was not Godly to happen under my watch. My salvation is at stake, and I'm not willing to risk that to overlook their ungodly behavior. They seem to understand that somehow! I also remind them that they too will have to stand before the Lord one day, and answer for all of their behavior.
These are the things coming to mind right now. And by applying these principles in our family, we've definitely lessened the *typical teenage mentality* that society has about teens. Are we perfect? No, we're FAR from perfect! But mostly, our days are full of incredible conversation, sometimes not so incredible, yet very interesting debate, TONS of laughs, lots of fun, and the BLESSINGS and GIFTS that come from watching your children grow into the wonderful young men and woman that God intends them and created them to be!!!!
 It's a BLESSING, not a curse. It's a GIFT, and one to be treasured! 
May the Lord bless you!
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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5athome
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I would echo Maddie's observation. I really think it is a myth for the most part. We are early into the teen years but I do not see it with the kids or with their friends. I see it running amok with their cousins who are in regular school with little to no involvement and zero discipline from their parents. Tina jogged my memory about 2 Protestant authored books by Bob Schultz that I am going to reread. The Created for Work book, in particular, really stressed instilling a strong family and work ethic in pre teens & teens and setting high standards to challenge them.
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ds '01, dd '04, ds '06,
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KackyK
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Tracy love your comments!!! Especially about reminding them (I don't know how to do that quote box ) that we are going to be answering to God about how we raised them. I've sort of alluded to that before with my 13yold dd, but I think I need to sort of spell that more. Really make her (and the other kiddos know) we aren't making these rules up in a vacuum. It's good for them to know that even as we present our rules as their duty to do, it is OUR duty to have those rules in the first place!
I'm going to print out your post for reminders!
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KackyK
Mom to 8 - 3 dd, 5ds & 4 babes in heaven
Beginning With the Assumption
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stefoodie
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I love Tracy's thoughts here and echo a lot of them.
My oldest is 17, and my next one is 12. Though dd17 did get difficult at times it was never as bad as I've seen elsewhere. But I am recalling even the bad days now with fondness -- it really helps me get through THESE days when it's the 12-yo who gets a bit of an attitude problem.
Our 17 yo now is just, in a world, WONDERFUL. I think we were through with the worst of it at around 15, so about 3 years of bleh.... and to be honest the days when she gave us a good deal of grief were few and far between, esp. after age 11 when she had to be "deprogrammed" from public school (oh, the screaming matches we had back then!).
Tracy's advice is spot on and very similar to the way we handle things around here. The heart-to-heart talks are just so so important. A couple of times I just had to bare my soul to my teen and let her know how negative things were affecting our relationship, and that I was worried about how it was affecting her relationship with God.
What's funny is 17-yo now is seeing firsthand how she was, esp. when 12-yo acts sassy or something -- we look at each other and think -- yup, been there, done that. It also helps me and dh to relax and realize that as long as we keep praying, doing our best, keeping communication lines open, etc., with God's grace, he'll turn out fine too.
And then we just have to worry about the next ones... but I'm rather looking forward to it!
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stef
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Maddie
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
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Well said, Tracy! Thank you for all the great reminders and also the "why's". Sometimes I just know in my heart what is right but don't articulate them very well to the children (or myself), thank you!
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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lapazfarm
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Maybe I'm lucky, but I think the whole surly teen thing is a myth--an expectation from a culture whose expectations in every area are sadly out of whack.
With the exception of my oldest dd, (who was ALWAYS difficult, not just as a teen), my teens have all been wonderful kids, respectful, engaged, and just a lot of fun to be around.
Tracy spoke very eloquently as to the whys and hows, so I won't bother to try and elaborate.
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Theresa
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LaPaz Home Learning
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folklaur
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Great topic! 
It was in "preparing our teens" thread that I made the original comment. I had said, that
Quote:
So much of our culture sends the message of the Horrible Teen Years. I hate that. Teens are FUN. They are great talkers & thinkers (tho usually late at night), they like to try to grasp new and hard ideas. They can be so sweet. They have great senses of humor, and fresh and exciting insights.
They get the message in our society that they are moody, sullen, hard to deal with etc. And so, I think on the whole teens in society have done a great job of living up to that.
BUT they can be an absolute delight. I expect MORE from them - and when I do, they seem to WANT to be more than that "image" society has made for them. So often, people will say, "Well, I have a teen" and the other Moms nod in a sympathetic way. What a horrible message that sends them! (I am guilty of this myself at times!) |
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So - yes I do think that it is a myth - but one that society at large buys into, and teens tend to live up (or down) to expectations - well, not just teens, I think in general, people do this.
But, should we tolerate it? Nope. Because it *is* a myth.
anyway....everyone else's thoughts on this are so excellent!
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folklaur
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 5:03pm | IP Logged
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Oh, albeto, I have to add...
I can't *stand* high school musical. My oldest and I watched it when a bunch of girl's from our Catholic Homeschool Group even were going on about it.
I totally didn't see what the fuss was about, or why it was so popular. Neither did dd. We kept thinking it must be a joke or something...
no offense intended to anyone who does like it...just wasn't our thing, I guess....
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albeto
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Tracy! I've printed these off and will take time to ponder how we can do this in our home. The challenge is that my dh is not a believer and does expect teen years to get messy and thinks its all normal (apparently it is) and fine (not for me).
Thanks for the links, Maddie! I feel a little more prepared now.
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albeto
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cactus mouse wrote:
Great topic!
It was in "preparing our teens" thread that I made the original comment. I had said, that
Quote:
So much of our culture sends the message of the Horrible Teen Years. I hate that. Teens are FUN. They are great talkers & thinkers (tho usually late at night), they like to try to grasp new and hard ideas. They can be so sweet. They have great senses of humor, and fresh and exciting insights.
They get the message in our society that they are moody, sullen, hard to deal with etc. And so, I think on the whole teens in society have done a great job of living up to that.
BUT they can be an absolute delight. I expect MORE from them - and when I do, they seem to WANT to be more than that "image" society has made for them. So often, people will say, "Well, I have a teen" and the other Moms nod in a sympathetic way. What a horrible message that sends them! (I am guilty of this myself at times!) |
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So - yes I do think that it is a myth - but one that society at large buys into, and teens tend to live up (or down) to expectations - well, not just teens, I think in general, people do this.
But, should we tolerate it? Nope. Because it *is* a myth.
anyway....everyone else's thoughts on this are so excellent! |
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Yes! This was it - thank you! I couldn't agree more but not having raised teens yet, I don't want to be caught off-guard just because I *want* them to rise up to admirable expectations.
I always secretly hoped my teens could be good young adults and now I think it isn't just a pipe dream.
And btw, I've never seen HSM, my kids haven't seen it, we have no interest in seeing it and I'm so grateful that my kids don't get into the hype just because its the newest hype.
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TracyQ
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Oh! I just remembered one very IMPORTANT thing I left out when reading other's wisdom, and thinking about this:
6~REMEMBER TO PRAISE THEM OFTEN, and TELL them you LOVE THEM!!!- We've found that kids this age really need to still be praised! They may not act like it, or may not even acknowledge it when you do, but they NEED SO badly to hear you praise them still, and to tell them you love them! It's hard, because some teens don't want you to touch them (hug them, etc.), while some are fine with it. Our oldest is too *cool* to hug, yet he's the most sensitive one we have, and needs to know he's loved the most of all. So I find ways to let him know we love him, and find ways to touch him without him being embarrassed like a squeeze to the shoulder, etc. And he's not good at saying he loves us, but finds ways to tell us through actions. For example, one day, when I was really sad, he played one of his ITunes for me that was a 'happy song" that he knew I loved to cheer me up. He has this very special way of saying 'hi mom' in his goofy voice, and translated, it means, 'hi mom! I love you!'  I know I need to realize his ways, and not feel badly when his ways aren't my ways of showing love and affection, even when it's hard for me. My mom tells me he'll change as he gets older, and I'm sure he will. Our 16yos always hugs me before bed, and tells me he loves me when I tell him I love him, or comes up to me just to hug me from time to time. He's a sweetheart, and a completely different kid than is his brother. Our daughter is more moody, but does hug me often, and is so compassionate towards me, especially when my arthritis is bad, and I'm not feeling well. She's a great care giver. They're all so different, but their need to hear praises when they do well, and to hear us tell them we love them is paramount at this time in their life.
Ok....I think that's it now!
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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MacBeth
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I love my teens (3 out of my 4 are now teens, and the youngest one will be a teen before the first one becomes a 20!). For the most part, they are cheery, fun and likable people. The one that is sometimes a pill...is (as I keep forgetting) in high school, not homeschooled.
Does that let me off the hook?
One big thing with me is trust and respect, which are two-way streets. I feel that I can really trust that they will do the right thing, and if they make mistakes, they will feel free to confide in me. This has been the case time after time, when complicated matters of personal responsibility have come up. And when we hit the elk last summer, we felt completely comfortable sending the older teens (then 15 and 17) home without us, expecting that they would get the dog out of the kennel, care for him, get to work and school obligations, and keep house for nearly 2 weeks. There was no problem at all. They even got home from the airport by themselves (ok...the airtrain stop is only three blocks away, but it was pouring rain, and they had so much luggage!).
Best of all, when confronted with a major moral issue a few weeks ago, Libby came down clearly on the right side, though it caused her pain and the loss of a friendship  . And she called us and told us right away.
Teenage is turning out to be my favorite age, and not a thing to be dreaded! And, frankly, I'm tired of "popular wisdom" gurus telling the world to beware of teens! 
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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MacBeth
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Here's a link to a related article from HSLDA via the WashTimes.
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog
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Angie Mc
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At the end of this month I'll have 2 teens  .
For the most part, I love the company of teens, my own and others. I understand that I need to earn their respect, and I expect to be respected. I don't let my teen/s or any other teens treat me poorly.
I don't buy into the myth of the *terrible teens* but I do see these precious years as a big time of transition, a time to change from being a child into being an adult. This is the time for teens to *try on* different behaviors, friends, ways of communicating, styles, activities, and more. This is prime time to take risks, makes mistakes, and learn from adversity. All of this can leave the best teens grumpy, confused, and worried. Yet...they can't take out their frustrations on me or other family members inappropriately. They need to learn the habit of *using their words* to sort through their feelings and/or get help. Why? Because this is mandated by God. They cannot dishonor their mother and father. Period. They need to love their neighbor, including their siblings . And in worldly terms, as an adult, you need to know how to respect your boss, your instructor, your spouse. We don't look at the teen years as the limbo years or the years of teens just being teens, we look at them as the final (and sometimes bumpy) years before adulthood...serious stuff!
Mixed in with all this serious stuff, is a whole lot of fun. My dd and her friends make belly laugh. What a gift! I love seeing life through their fresh eyes. I love engaging in meaty conversations with them, watching movies with them, being at baseball games with them. I love when their joy and enthusiasm for something, from writing to movies to baseball, spills over on me. What a privilege.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 1:53pm | IP Logged
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I think you guys will like this article from Holly Pierlot.
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stef
mom to five
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Leonie
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My teens are like me - sometimes they are oh-so-good and sometimes their attiude needs help. 
Truthfully, I haven't found any major teen issues ( I have 3 teens, 3 post teen, one 12 year old). But I do acknowledge that hormones play a part and so do changing relationships as the kids and parents grow - relationship between mum and son, dad and son. This is both work and joy.
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Lisbet
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Stef, Dh and I LOVED that article. We read it in NCR over the weekend and I have been thinking about it alot.
I have one fairly new teen, and while I do notice a tad more moodiness I also think it's a myth that allows both parents and teens off the hook. (The Gyn Blossoms song runs through my head "If you don't expect too much from me, you might not be let down.")
I know I have to keep my own moodiness in check, so no less is expected of my teen!
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: what is going right with your teen?
