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stefoodie
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Our 14-yo is getting more and more into music. She's still very much into classical and church music and she listens to Josh Groban and Charlotte Church all the time, BUT she's also wanting to listen to the radio and the stuff that other teens are listening to (hate that no preposition at the end of the sentence rule). Help! What CDs do I get for her so she doesn't feel like an oddity, but still keep bad influence/language to a minimum? Some family friends were here yesterday and one teenage girl handed her two Christian CDs -- not Catholic, but "rock-sounding". One group is called Newsboys. What's your opinion of Christian (non-Catholic) music? Anything I should watch for? Should I just screen for anti-Catholic content and let her listen to these? It just doesn't feel very "spiritual" when I listen to these, maybe I'm getting too old:(.
Thanks in advance,
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stef
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tovlo4801
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Stef,
We're Christian music fans here. We do screen for anti-catholic ideas, but we also have fun with the more contemporary flavor of it.
The Newsboys are one of our FAVORITE bands. One of the band members is actually Catholic. They were written up in the Catholic Digest a few years back.
Many times Christian music can have a very spiritual feel, but to be honest often we listen just to have reasonably wholesome music to have some fun with. Because we all enjoy Christian music together as a family we always have the opportunity to discuss it if there is something in the lyrics that doesn't match up with Catholic teaching. We have close friends who are not Catholic and it's important that our kids are able to understand and be charitable about other faiths, but also to defend the Catholic faith. I actually think listening to Christian music as a family occasionally gives us the opportunity to talk about the differences in the way different denominations look at faith.
Our families other favorite Christian artist is Shaun Groves. He is not Catholic, but we have found nothing terribly objectionable in his first two CD's. In fact for several years we debated about whether he might not actually be a quiet Catholic or at least on his way to conversion. We just went to a concert of his this spring where he previewed music from his new CD and we did finally feel some serious concerns about his biblical interpretation. But his first two CD's are wonderful.
Other favorites of mine are Nicole Nordeman and Chris Rice. Again, not Catholic and some of the songs have ideas that are troublesome, but for the most part they are great.
My husband likes a Christian band called Apologetix. They are not Catholic and quite often their lyrics do not match up with the way Catholics believe. They can be a fun alternative for a kid who is not willing to give up secular music, though. I have a friend who's sons are very into hard rock and rap and I've been thinking I might give her an Apologetix CD to see if that might help her wean them off. This is kind of like a Weird Al Yankovik group. They take popular music and re-do it with fun Christian lyrics. They will tackle everything from M&M and Ozzie to the Beatles to rap to the current top 40. My husband teaches apologetics for the high school RE program at our parish and he will sometimes bring these songs in to play before class just to confuse the kids. My husband says it's funny because the kids will be singing along for quite a while before they realize that the song is not quite "right". (many of the kids do not come from strong religious families and most are quite familiar with popular music)
I know others will feel strongly against Christian music, but when I converted to Catholicism this was an area that I asked some questions about. I wondered if I'd have to give up Christian music and I was assured that if I was careful about the lyrics and well-informed in my faith there was no harm. Our family likes to joke around and have fun and there are some Christian bands out there that play very fun and wholesome music.
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teachingmyown
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Stef,
This is such a slippery slope! Tread carefully, because it is easier to stand your ground than to back track.
My son has pushed the envelope everytime that I have made a concession about music. He started listening to Creed, a band that had Christian messages although not an overtly Christian band. I felt they were a little too heavy, but there was none of the angst and bad attitude so I allowed it. Next he wanted to listen to a heavier band called Lincoln Park. Again, their message was neutral, Focus on the Family gave them an alright review, so I gave in.
Since then, he has pushed for louder, heavier and even foul languaged (albeit censored) music. It is a battle. And I wish I had stuck to my guns earlier.
I am still ambivalent about the intrinsic value of rock music. Some of the holiest and most conservative priests I know play rock music together.
About Apologetix, they sound really great and it is fun to listen to cleaned up versions of familiar songs, but I also feel it encourages the kids to be interested in the original. One song they parody is by Eminem, a vile rapper. I feel this only glamorizes this style of music and gives the kids a taste of something that is truly evil.
If you look closely, you can find some mainstream music that is fun and uplifting. But it is a challenge and requires constant, tiring vigilance.
Good luck, I will say a prayer for your discernment.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Liz D
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Stef,
I posted a question awhile back about my son wanting to listen to his punk rock music during school hours. Some one suggested I listen to Andrew Pudewa's The profound Effect of Music on Life CD. It was eye openning. I would advise the same thing before you make any changes to your daughter's music choices.
God Bless,
Liz
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stefoodie
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hi all, thanks for the advice. molly, i know what you mean about that slippery slope. i think i'll take liz' advice and get andrew pudewa's CD, been meaning to do that for a while anyway. richelle, i've checked out some of the newsboys lyrics -- while i haven't found anything offensive or anti-Catholic yet, a lot of the lyrics are pretty generic, like you have to supply the meaning to them, they're not really praising God or anything... so I'm still unsure. (sigh) thanking you for your prayers,
God bless,
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stef
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tovlo4801
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| They will tackle everything from M&M and Ozzie to the Beatles to rap to the current top 40. |
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Ooops. I guess I didn't get Eminem's name right. I suppose I should be glad at some level that I'm so ignorant of the details. 
I agree that it is a tough thing to work through. I will also pray for you and all other parents working through these kind of boundary issues (myself included!).
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ourladyslilac
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http://www.apostlemusic.com/jukebox/default.asp
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juliecinci
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A contrary view (just to add another perspective).
We were very strict with music with all our kids for the first 14 years we had kids. My oldest tested us to the point of being banned from the computer for six months over a song he downloaded on the computer when we had told him he couldn't listen to it. He was 14 at the time.
I used to change radio stations when certain songs came on, I only listened to Christian music myself and was fully ignorant of comptemporary music, especially heavy metal and rap/hip hop.
During the time when Noah was banned from the computer, I did some soul searching. So did my husband. It hit us that we were trying to form our son's value system from the outside in. We thought that if we stopped him from listening to stuff we disapproved of, the darkness would somehow not find him. And he'd eventually be glad.
What we weren't paying attention to was the fact that something about this music was actually compelling to our son. He found something in that music (which he could listen to at a friend's house, on his own radio, on MTV when we didn't know it) that intrigued him, spoke to him, gave him something that he valued.
We somehow thought those needs and curiosities would just "go away" through banning the music.
We were wrong.
Rather, we were creating a child who was developing a secret life apart from us and our values in order to explore his developing values and interests. I suddenly saw with clarity that I had to decide which I preferred: Did I want Noah to develop his values by sneaking behind our backs and rejecting anything we say because we had clamped down so harshly? Or did we want to be participants in his emerging self, even watching him develop values that differed significantly from ours, but all the while fully aware of what his were, able to listen to him reason and sort things out, give input when asked for it, etc.
We had to decide if we were willing to put our values (the ones we shaped without our parents telling us what they should be) ahead of our child and who he actually is becoming.
We took the latter route - the relating while he develops route. We decided not to give up close relating in favor of our anxieties for his values and beliefs.
An interesting change has occurred since then. (Noah is now 18.)
First of all, I reconnected with some of the music I loved in college and saw how much it had meant to me at that time in my life. I became reminded of the power that my favorite bands had in my life - the way they spoke to my pain, fears, new joys and hopes. I saw that what speaks to me now didn't speak to me in the same way then and vice versa.
Second, I discovered how insightful my son really is. We got to talk about lyrics that were offensive to me due to language, for instance, but then looked at the message being communicated. Some of these songs were edgy (Nirvana's "Rape Me" - the song that got Noah banned from the computer - turned out to be about how the media abuses musicians, not about getting raped). But often the songs he really loved were insightful, or at minimum, provocative.
I got to share about my views of how women are demeaned in music, how sometimes nihilism dominates heavy metal, how Metallica might have a song that shows the error of taking drugs but that most of the members have been in rehab for alcohol abuse and so on.
I could appreciate the amazing talent of the musicians.
Having loved rock n roll for most of my life, I did appreciate the beat, the skill of the guitarists and the powerful vocals of the groups he came to love (Metallica, Linkin Park, and others). (I love Linkin Park. Their lyrics are incredibly relevant to teens. And they've chosen not to use cuss words in their songs saying that they would rather be better song writers and "show" what they feel instead of just taking the easy way out.)
To show Noah that we had really changed our views, Jon (dh) took Noah to an all day concert for his 16th birthday that featured Linkin Park and Metallica (and four other bands). They had the best time.
What's interesting is that once we "lifted" the bans, Noah's musical interests diversified. His favorite CD right now is Phatom of the Opera and he plays classical music on the piano every single day. He likes pop, too. And he's interested in the music I like and will sit and listen to my favorite songs and discuss the lyrics I find cool because I do the same for him.
Only occasionally have I had to ask him to turn off a song because I just couldn't stomach the lyrics.
My other kids have followed a similar path but with different tastes. All of us are just as likely to enjoy Andrea Bocelli (opera) as we are to listen to the top forty countdown.
Are there a lot of messages in music that don't line up with Catholic or Christian thinking? Yes! But that's true in all of life. I've come to the conclusion that holding the doors closed with my bare hands doesn't form thinking, value-creating children. Instead, tight controls over music, TV, books create parentally-controlled teens at best and hypocrites at worst.
I had to come to the point where I valued my kids' development into independent thinkers and spiritual persons more than I valued their having my beliefs and values. So that's where we are today.
Julie
P.S. I know so many kids through my kids' friends who lie, sneak, pretend around their parents about things like music, using bad language, watching R movies and on and on. These are homeschooled kids. My daughter told me once that the Christian kids cuss and swear more on IM than her non-Christian friends. And I've watched as kids pretend to buy Christian CDs at the store and then really get what they want, burn it to the computer and then toss the case and cover and lie to their moms. I've witnessed it firsthand.
Jon and I decided we didn't want hiddenness. We wanted full engagement.
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Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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tovlo4801
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juliecinci wrote:
| Are there a lot of messages in music that don't line up with Catholic or Christian thinking? Yes! But that's true in all of life. I've come to the conclusion that holding the doors closed with my bare hands doesn't form thinking, value-creating children. |
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Julie,
Thanks for the alternate view. Last night after reading everyone's responses I had a philisophical conversation with my dh about the value of music that is not classical or overtly praising God. I wasn't exactly questioning my belief that there is value in many types of music, but the points raised here made me think I should at least explore it.
My son is still on the cusp of the teenage years (12 this summer), and so far he's perfectly happy with the way we handle music in this house. My husband and I like many types of music. We are very open about where we find joy in the music we listen to. We are also very vocal about what concerns us in music. When we hear things that are concerning, it often opens the door to discussions about how the world looks at things and how people of faith see the world. I strongly feel that the balance should be tilted toward music with good messages. But people living without God guiding them is a truth of this world for far too many people and it can be revealing to explore that with your kids. I don't think it's something that you should purposely set out to expose your child to or allow exposure to on an overwhelmingly frequent basis, but I do think it offers something valuable to the mix.
I remember when our favorite Christian musician Shaun Groves put out his 2nd CD he was very frustrated because his chosen track from the album would not be played by Christian music stations. They thought it was too "dark". It was a song called Twilight and it described the mingling of good and evil within him as he moved from sin toward God. The stations didn't like the acknowledgement of the dark within a Christian's life. I think that is sad. It denies the truth that Christians struggle with sin and bans beautiful reflection on that.
I guess that's part of why I'm more flexible about the music. I think it's valuable to look occasionally at the true whole picture. I don't want my son to be saturated in evil music. I do think occasional exposure to music from people who are struggling with evil as a family can be a good place to explore the issues that are a reality in our corrupted world. (I also enjoy a good rock beat and some silly lyrics too.  )
I'm not completely convinced that I'm not walking into trouble for the future years. My instict however, is that keeping the balance in our home strongly in favor of good wholesome music (even if it's silly or not overtly praising), and not closing the door to other sorts of music sets up a good direction. The idea is to saturate dc with good messages and not make other music tempting because it's forbidden, but allow it to be the starting point for discussions about faith and morals. I may be proven wrong though.
p.s. Stef, some of our favorite Newsboys songs are the just plain silly ones. However, they do have several nice praise and worship songs. Adoration: The Worship Album might be a good place to start if your daughter likes the Newsboys. You can check out all their lyrics at their website newsboys
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stefoodie
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wow, what beautiful insights, everyone. i was praying last night and this morning about this again, and the question keeps on coming back to me: hubby and i weren't totally sheltered growing up, and yet we do make wise, prayerful choices today, don't we? why should our child be any different?
i listened to pop and rock music most of my life; billy joel is my favorite artist, but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate classical or gospel music. my parents weren't overly protective, and yet i don't think i turned out horribly, or my two brothers with whom they were even more lax. if anything i am more in touch with my faith now than some of my friends who had stricter parents (my parents were strict but in areas other than music). hubby and i are talking about how music has played such an important role in our lives growing up.... how can we deny our child?
i think you hit the nail on the head, julie, when you said "full engagement" -- that's what we need here more than ever. we'd certainly prefer to guide our child through the maze instead of turning our back against it and forcing her and ourselves to pretend it's not there. it may seem to be the easy way out at first glance, but i can see now how it could be a problem long term. thanks gals.
God bless,
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stef
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tovlo4801
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| Posted: June 29 2005 at 10:43am | IP Logged
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ourladyslilac wrote:
http://www.apostlemusic.com/jukebox/default.asp
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Thanks for the link! There's some really good music here. I've been listening while I play on the internet for about a 1/2 hour now. One of my favorites so far is Crispin. My dh heard them at the Catholic Press Awards a few years back and I remember him saying that there were some really good Catholic bands out there, but you never hear them. Now I know where to hear them! Thanks...
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stefoodie
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ooh, i had forgotten about crispin. thanks for the reminder.
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stef
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teachingmyown
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Julie,
You made some great points. Thank you. I believe that your approach is far better than the just ban everything approach. I do think that it can be possible to set limits, with explanations.
My son wants to listen to rap, including Eminem (again, the censored versions). We are trying to appeal to his maturity and moral consciense by explaining to him why the overwhelming majority of rap is evil, censored or not.
A big part of the problem is the explicit vulgarity that is available with the flip of a radio dial. Nirvana is nothing compared to groups like Nickleback, who is very popular and "mainstream" and John Meyer (sp). These are songs on the radio that spell out the things they intend to do to their "partner" while children of all ages sing along.
I know there has been trashy music around since I was a kid. I am often astonished and embarrassed to hear songs that I used to love when I hear them now. I also know that it does influence behavior. Especially in younger teens.
I don't have the answer. I think Julie probably comes as close as possible to the best solution.
By the way, Julie, I will be sure NOT to let my son read your post! He loves Metallica and I cannot stand them. I hated them in college when all the guys I knew listened to them. My son would be so jealous.
One other thing, Lincoln Park's latest is parental advisory, so even they couldn't keep it clean. It is such a shame.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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juliecinci
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Hi Molly.
Linkin Park's parental advisory is for a CD done with Jay-Z (rapper) "Collision Course." LP's own lyrics on their CDs are clean.
Abour rap: I studied rap last semester in my grad school course. It was eye-opening to say the least. And while there is plenty of vulgarity/obscenity in much of it, especially in what I'd call "party rap," it's roots are politcally motivated.
I watched Tupac:Resurrection with my older kids. It's not for the faint of heart, for sure. What comes through for a pretty white middle class person like me is how much I don't understand/know about the black struggle for justice in America. Rap is one of the under-the-radar expressions of black discontent. They feel like they've lost their voice and so they resort to rhymes and fantasies of how they'd like things to be (which includes a lot of violence against oppressors).
In our family, we don't make rap a daily part of our musical diet, but I'm glad to have investigated the genre to know more of the story... to understand it.
You mentioned how lyrics you heard as a teen suddenly shock you today to realize what they actually mean. I've had that experience too. It made me realize in kind of a reverse way that perhaps we have overly vested the lyrics of songs with power that they don't actually have over teens until they become adults with experience that can be correlated those same lyrics.
There are some lyrics that are explicit enough on their own, for sure. I don't leave those on the radio when they come on and say why: "This song makes me uncomfortable because it is too explicit."
But I figure many songs (especially those eith heavy metaphorical content) still go right over their heads.
I know which song you mean by John Mayer but was having a hard time thinking of the Nickleback one that was explicit. We have both their CDs.
I'm not saying this is an easy road, for sure. I'm often more bugged by the songs where the women are portrayed powerless without a man and are begging the man to come back (think of Mariah Carey's most recent song: "We Belong Together"). The messages about women and love and sex bother me the most.
About Metallica: I can only handle them in single song doses.  I couldn't have done that concert like my husband did. But reading their lyrics with my son has been eye-opening and I do have an appreciation for their musical talents.
Last night my oldest was on his way to pick up one of my kids from a movie and asked me to come along. I hopped in the car and his first comment was: "Listen to this song, Mom." The music screamed through the speakers, the singers screeched. I couldn't understand a word so he spoke the lyrics to me.
He wanted me to notice the metaphors. They were interesting for sure. The topic: recovering from a rape. Ugh. But he pointed out that the song was indicting rape as evil. He wanted me to know that.
I'm out of my comfort zone much of the time, but I like that he still talks to me about all of it and is interested in my opinions about the content as well as the form of the lyrics.
This a.m., he just flew out the door on the way to be a counselor at Shakespeare camp. Two nights ago, he spent an hour telling me about how Shakespeare moved us from middle English to the modern era in the English language. In his free time, he reads about the origins of language and he's in a chapter right now about how metaphor creates language.
So somehow all of this fits together for him. Fortunately for me, I get to see how his mind processes all of it (and I'm grateful, though at times, hanging on by my fingernails).
Julie
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Julie
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tovlo4801
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I have another idea for Catholic music. Our local Catholic radio station had a Catholic musician on this morning who has a contract in the Christian music industry. The few songs they played on-line sounded good. You can link to her website from Relevant Radio here Sara Hart.
I think you can listen to archived copies of the shows on the site. I think it would be an interesting interview to listen to. You can find the archive at Sara Hart interview. They spent a lot of time talking about the state of Christian and Catholic music in general. I thought it was very interesting.
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TracyQ
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Oh, I could listen to Sara Hart's music forever! She has a beautiful voice. I ordered two CDs and got her debut CD for $2.00 with her promotion! Thanks for letting us know about her!
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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MacBeth
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Stef, can your server handle big files as e-mail? I have some Catholic "world music" you might want to sample. It's pretty good stuff--not heavy metal, not rap, not rock, almost jazz, and very musical. Drop me a note at my e-mail addy if you can accept a sample (2-3 meg).
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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Erica Sanchez
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I have been meaning to post this here for months!!! This is a great topic! While we don't have teenagers yet, we've been youth ministers for years and have lots of great music because of it!!
MATT MAHER!! MATT MAHER!! MATT MAHER!!
I cannot say enough about this Catholic artist!!! We all love him, down to the two-year old!! And your teens will as well!!
He's cool, cute, and CATHOLIC!
You can listen to all his music at spiritandsong.com
We have 2 of his CD's.
the end and the beginning
There are a few typical Protestant praise and worship type songs (which are great), but he has written most
of his own.
"Love Has Come" - amazingly beautiful!
"Litany" - of the saints - has some Latin in it - great, great!
"You Are The Lord" - very edgy! my favorite line '...you're my God and I'm not ashamed, I'll stand for you when the whole world falters....'
"the end and the beginning" - the first word in the song.....transubstantiation!!!!
many more - all great!
Welcome To Life
It took listening to this one several times on our vacation for me to fall in love with it! And then we used four of the songs to go with our pictures!
From what I can tell, all the songs are written by him. It's a fun CD with a different feel that the first. Some high energy, edgy songs and some slower, beautiful ones.
I especially like "Set Me as a Seal" and "Lead Me Home" and the title track, "Welcome to Life".
I'm just a tad bit excited about this musician!!!!!
Actually, the SpiritandSong website has all Catholic musicians. I saw Sarah Hart's name listed. It would be good to spend some time there and get a feel for the different genres of music. And, then let your teens spend some time there. They are more than likely to connect with some type of music there.
I need to go, but I will post more later about teens and music in general. Julie's post really surprises me and I have lots of questions and comments. Not that I am against secular music in the least!! We've been listening to Jack Johnson for the past couple of days - love the music, but want to make sure the words are O.K. for the kids. Sometimes it's hard to tell what the words are....... 
A great and important topic - thanks for starting it!
__________________
Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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TracyQ
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Wow! He's excellent as well! Sheesh! All these great Catholic artists I didn't know about! Wow!
The End and the Beginning has some great songs! I'm going to order that one too! :)
We have a homeschooling mom here who has written music, and recorded a CD called, *Who*. Her name is Laura Boronski. You can see her CD, and hear a very short clip (unfortunately, I don't think this is the best clip of the CD):
Quiet Waters
Bob Fera, who's CD you can also find there (he may have two now, I can't remember), is one of our homeschooling dad.
Quiet Waters Productions is run by another of the families in our homeschool support groups! And they also produced the wonderful Spanish curriculum, *Learn Spanish with Grace*, which was written by a wonderful homeschool mom who used to be in our support group here, but has since moved. We miss her terribly. 
Anyway, it's refreshing to know there are more and more wonderful choices out there!!!
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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TracyQ
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Location: New York
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| Posted: July 15 2005 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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This subject is a passion of mine, and also something that's been sometimes difficult at times for us as well through the gradual maturing into teenage years for our children.
Thus far, we've been pretty much able to *steer* the music in our family. I think it's so much of a balancing act with music, just as it is with so many other things, especially in these teen years.
If it wasn't, I wouldn't have spent my time watching Napoleon Dynamite last night, because my son really NEEDED me to watch it, because it's the funniest movie ever made!  I'm hoping his tastes in *best movies* will change after this stage in his life.
Truthfully, I did laugh my head off, and appreciated what he is seeing in the movie itself. Strange, but interesting nonetheless. He also appreciates excellent material, both musically and in movies and TV as well, thankfully.
For music, we listen to so many different types of music here too. I put classical on during the schoolday often, but then when they want to *get jiggy with it*, we'll put on our favorite Lynyrd Skynard Sweet Home Alabama or Freebird, or our ALL time favorite, Billy Joel (anything Billy is fine!). 
There are times I need to quiet down, and I'll put on quiet christian music (love Michael Card's Joy in the Journey), or some James Taylor.
The kids don't love classical music, I must admit, nor do they love my choice of jazz, or blues, or big band or 50's music sometimes. But they appreciate it, and all of the differences in music, which is what we're trying to teach them.
Music is so diverse, and such a part of life, and it's a joy for our family to celebrate it together with a balance created, and in so many ways.
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Need suggestions for music please
