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JennGM
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Continuing the Charlotte Mason Book Study, I thought it would be good to do a new thread on
the new book, Laying Down the Rails.
Elizabeth has the first discussion posted here.
I'll be back to type in my thoughts, as I have many, but no time to do tonight. Please share and discuss, whether you have a blog or not!
I'm just so happy to get back to the roots of 4Real Board, and trying to understand and implement some of Charlotte Mason's philosophy.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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SuzanneG
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Here is the link for The Original Homeschooling Series for quoting purposes.
I just typed these out from Chapter 1 for myself, so thought I'd list them here:
Chapter 1 ~ About Habits
1. Forming habits intentionally and thoughtfully is an important part of education.
2. Habit can be more powerful than natural tendencies.
3. The longer a habit is performed without lapses, the stronger it becomes.
4. Habit is inevitable.
5. Habits produce character.
6. The mother who takes pains to endow her children with good habits secure for herself smooth and easy days.
7. Children can pick up habits from the actions and attitudes of those around them.
8. Training in good habits is linked to discipline of the will, developing a response to conscience, and teaching about God.
9. We must train our children in habits of decency and propriety, moral habits, mental habits, physical habits, and religious habits.
The fifth point has kept me thinking and marveling. Habits produce character. There was so much in this section; I keep going back to it. I love this paragraph from page 15:
Quote:
| As has been well said, 'Sow an act, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny.' And a great function of the educator is to secure that acts shall be so regularly, purposefully, and methodically sown that the child shall reap the habits of the good life, in thinking and doing, with the minimum of conscious effort. (Vol. 2, p. 124) |
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Regularily, Purposefully, Methodically.
And, the quote before it:
Quote:
| Perhaps it is not too much to say, that ninety-nine out of a hundred lost lives lie at the door of parents who took no pains to deliver them from sloth, from sensual appetites, from willfulness, no pains to fortify them with the habits of a good life. (Vol. 1, p. 330) |
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Those are strong words! Sounds like something my father would say.   Quite different from our very accepting-of-anything, nothing-is-my-fault culture. Not that we, as parents, can control EVERYTHING, but we can certainly do MUCH!
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG wrote:
| 7. Children can pick up habits from the actions and attitudes of those around them. |
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This one has me focused right now! I know I really must be gentle and consistent! Must.not.complain.about.everything! I should be grateful and content more often as an example.
SuzanneG wrote:
Quote:
| Perhaps it is not too much to say, that ninety-nine out of a hundred lost lives lie at the door of parents who took no pains to deliver them from sloth, from sensual appetites, from willfulness, no pains to fortify them with the habits of a good life. (Vol. 1, p. 330) |
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Those are strong words! Sounds like something my father would say. Quite different from our very accepting-of-anything, nothing-is-my-fault culture. Not that we, as parents, can control EVERYTHING, but we can certainly do MUCH! |
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Yes, and it is a motivator! I pray for my children's future vocation. It is on my shoulders to set them down the right path - to use Charlotte's phrase, "to fortify them with the habits of good life."
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Jen Mackintosh
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At first, the number of habits we need to address was very daunting for me. (OK, it still is daunting.) But I think the entire idea of laying the rails for good habits is empowering. The fact that we can actually help them to develop a habit that will make their lives (and sometimes our, too) easier, is quite inspiring.
Of course, I am improving myself and developing my own good habits of patience and consistency in the process. It's a win-win, really!
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One of the parts I struggle with is determining where to start.
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Michelle
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italianalaskan
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Ok so I finished reading and now I am going back to my highlighted areas in the book.
One problem I have with my kids is the "what did you say?" not just in school, but in our everyday life. It drives my dh crazy 
I understand what to do in school if they don't pay attention at the first reading, but what about daylife?
Thanks for you input.
Simona
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LLMom
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My problem is shear number of people I am trying to train to do the basic morning routine. They forget to make their beds (or whatever it maybe) and I don't catch it until they are off somewhere so they are not developing it into a habit. Any ideas?
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Lisa
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I have one DS that has a real habit of not listening. We even had his hearing checked! No problem with the hearing, just the listening.
First, I am trying to set a good example. I try to give my full attention by putting down what I am reading and turning away from the computer, etc. Or, I ask them to wait for a moment before I can focus on them (when they want to tell me something that can wait). I ask them to do the same when they are in the middle of something.
Dealing with the not listening is a real test for my patience and consistency. I have found that I need to make sure (the best I can) that he is listening before I start talking. I wait for eye contact, I look and try to determine if he "looks" like he is ready to listen. (Sometimes the eye contact doesn't help as his thoughts are off somewhere else.) Sometimes I remind him to focus. Or I tell him I need his attention. I often ask, "Are you listening?"
Then, after I speak, I ask him, "What did I just say?" Or, "What did I ask you to do?" so I can be sure that he did listen. Also, I have asked him to say, "Sorry, Mom, I was not listening. What did you say?" or something like that when he catches himself. It is helping make him aware of the habit and it helps me to maintain patience.
If I did ask him to do something. I try to patiently repeat myself. I have to remind myself not to just do it myself- as that reinforces his habit of not listening.
Sometimes, if it is not something that I need for him to hear right then, I will say, "I am not going to repeat myself. You need to listen better next time." (Like if I just asked him if he wants ice cream  .)
Oh, and I remind him that he will need to listen to his co-workers, etc. in order to be successful in his job. We sometimes make up extreme scenerios where someone never listens and gets fired! Or I use extreme situtations or future dreams that might require listening and make up a funny outcome based on not listening. Humor can be (but not always)a good way to reach DS.
Looking forward to hearing from others.
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Tracey
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Rachel May
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LLMom wrote:
| My problem is shear number of people I am trying to train to do the basic morning routine. They forget to make their beds (or whatever it maybe) and I don't catch it until they are off somewhere so they are not developing it into a habit. Any ideas? |
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I'm struggling with the same thing. Bill recently reminded me that you should not "beat your boss to work" and since I was getting up and doing my thing at the same time as the kids, they were beating me to work. I thought he made an excellent point, and for the past few weeks, I have been able to get showered and dressed and my Bible chapter read and at least coffee started before they come downstairs. I know many people don't have a problem getting up first, but I always have.
Also my kids are NOT allowed to leave their rooms before 7am.
Then during their morning chore time, I am walking behind them and checking their work, and correcting people before they can move on to either school or play. This is my morning chore.  I have only been doing it for a few weeks, but it has worked very well. Also, it helps that there is a set time, after breakfast until 9am, for all of this to be done. I can hit it with one concentrated effort.
I hope that helps some.
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Yesterday, I was reading Brave New World and was struck by a passage where a character described preconditioning of the different classes in this future society. He said "we have laid down the rails so that these things are no longer a sacrifice but instead have become the path of least resistance." The idea that virtue (our kind of rail laying, not that in the book) could become the path of least resistance was inspiring to me.
I have decided to focus on my own faults first as a means to teaching the kids through example. I have a soft spoken friend who is firm but gentle in discipline. On a day where I struggle, I pretend to be her which has helped a lot. But with my older kids, I share my struggles a little so that they can see that I am working towards self improvement. I'm hoping that is "laying a rail" for them too.
I'm not far in this book since I have family here and am still thinking over some of the ideas from the first book, but, like Jenn, I'm excited to be revisiting our roots.
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Rachel
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JennGM
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I cannot believe what a whirlwind June (and now July) have been been. My spare time has been used for information gathering, and I've been focusing more on home habits so little time for blogging or writing down the thoughts swirling in my head when I read these materials! And with my son teething or something the lack of sleep is wreaking havoc on my system!
But I have been reading and thought I would share a few thoughts and questions. The quotes from Charlotte Mason Suzanne shared are so powerful, and very convincing.
My melancholic side of my temperament tends to easily fall into discouragement. I look at my son and think "I've failed!" I'm buoyed up at the thought of changing and establishing good habits, then the idea of taking 6 weeks, and requiring perseverance on my part, I get discouraged again! So many of the habit training depends on me starting a good habit to keep ds on track with his.
It is helpful to remember the benefits that it will let the mother leave the child alone, and not having to give constant commands. And that also it doesn't take that much time considering the life of a child. As I was staking my tomatoes last week I was reminded by the CM quote about the peach tree and the work for the gardener "occupies a small fraction of the tree's life". My garden is the same way -- after the initial hard work and planting maintenance work is so low. If I could just keep this in mind.
I had a lovely discussion with a group of like-minded ladies this past Wednesday, and a book that was mentioned that fights this thought process, i.e., how much resistance we put up to change our lives. I think I must read it -- and everyone said it was a book that can be read pretty quickly -- another thing I need. This book is
Deep Conversion/ Deep Prayer by Thomas Dubay.
The example in Education Is... about the child not obeying the first time he is told is something going on here, and that's where I need to start. I don't think we can embark on habit training if quick obedience isn't established! Sonya gave some great pointers to work on that one.
And Elizabeth's mention of her established habit of reading aloud at bedtime was very uplifting. That is something we do, also, starting at a very young age. It's a relief to know that even if we didn't cover a saint or discussed an issue during the day, our book time is that peg that it will be covered. Dh does a lot of the reading, but that lap time is a coveted time for both of us.
I haven't thought much about it before, but it was nice to think about how daily life is made up mostly of habit. If we had to think through every tiny little action we would be exhausted by this constant deliberateness! It's no wonder when I'm asked what I ate for dinner or breakfast a few days ago, or what I wore last week I can't remember!
But this quote
Quote:
| We must not amuse ourselves with the notion that we have done something when we have only formed a good resolution. Power comes by doing and not by resolving, and it is habit that serves us, whether it be the habit of Latin verse or of carving.... |
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In other words, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and resolutions.  So me...how many of my good resolutions get lost within minutes of resolving!!!
And what a great point (Elizabeth points it out) that we need to act right away. The bad habits don't just disappear, just get deeper and further ingrained -- harder to exchange for the good habit. This is the vocation of the parent "to put the child on the right track for the fulfilment of the possibilities inherent in him."
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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JennGM
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Rachel May wrote:
I'm struggling with the same thing. Bill recently reminded me that you should not "beat your boss to work" and since I was getting up and doing my thing at the same time as the kids, they were beating me to work. I thought he made an excellent point, and for the past few weeks, I have been able to get showered and dressed and my Bible chapter read and at least coffee started before they come downstairs. I know many people don't have a problem getting up first, but I always have.
Also my kids are NOT allowed to leave their rooms before 7am.
Then during their morning chore time, I am walking behind them and checking their work, and correcting people before they can move on to either school or play. This is my morning chore. I have only been doing it for a few weeks, but it has worked very well. Also, it helps that there is a set time, after breakfast until 9am, for all of this to be done. I can hit it with one concentrated effort.
I hope that helps some. |
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Wow, that helps me! I always see that being dressed and up before the kids makes my day so much better.
Is your baby waking up at predictable hours? That's my struggle -- we're not getting the same time each morning. And now that he and I are not sleeping at night, my morning routine is shot! Sometimes those early morning hours are the best sleep I get.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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Rachel May wrote:
| Yesterday, I was reading Brave New World and was struck by a passage where a character described preconditioning of the different classes in this future society. He said "we have laid down the rails so that these things are no longer a sacrifice but instead have become the path of least resistance." The idea that virtue (our kind of rail laying, not that in the book) could become the path of least resistance was inspiring to me. |
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I like this. Chesterton went to PNEU schools. I guess I read in the rail laying applies to me, too, and especially with virtue. I find the following quote:
Quote:
| We have lost sight of the fact that habit is to life what rails are to transport cars. It follows that lines of habit must be laid down towards given ends and after careful survey, or the joltings and delays of life become insupportable. More, habit is inevitable. If we fail to ease life by laying down habits of right thinking and right acting, habits of wrong thinking and wrong acting fix themselves of their own accord. We avoid decision and indecision brings its own delays, "and days are lost lamenting o'er lost days." Almost every child is brought up by his parents in certain habits of decency and order without which he would be a social outcast. Think from another point of view how the labour of life would be increased if every act of the bath, toilet, table, every lifting of the fork and use of spoon were a matter of consideration and required an effort of decision! No; habit is like fire, a bad master but an indispensable servant; and probably one reason for the nervous scrupulosity, hesitation, indecision of our day, is that life was not duly eased for us in the first place by those whose business it was to lay down lines of habit upon which our behaviour might run easily. |
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fits in quite nicely with Chesterton's thoughts. Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly?
I've only gotten past the first chapter, as that's what Elizabeth had covered.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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monique
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Rachel May wrote:
I know many people don't have a problem getting up first, but I always have.
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Me too! This is the first year that I've made a diligent effort to get up and get a shower before everyone else. It is a real challenge especially when you have an unpredictable baby! The days that I am up and ready to go make it much easier. Then I'm prepared and can be "gently encouraging" the children to eat, get dressed and do their chores. Someone always gets sidetracked though....usually it's the legos.
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LLMom
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Thanks Rachel. That will probably help a lot.
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Lisa
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Hello, Ladies! I am excited to finally have the time to join in the discussion (if you all don't mind!)
I have just been trying to read - first Education Is.. and now Laying Down the Rails. So far this is a wonderful book with so many points to ponder.
For the past few years I have been searching for a good way to teach the virtues to the kids, there are so many and it is HARD work! And I get bogged down with the knowledge that I myself have so much to work on! The devil sure knows how to use this knowledge to keep me from acting sometimes. I feel like a hypocrite much of the time. And I hate seeing my own faults in the mirror of my children's actions - This proves the point brought up in the book:
7. Children can pick up habits from the actions and attitudes of those around them.
Why is it always so much easier to pick up the bad habits?? I guess because of our fallen nature. So, then it also holds true that "a certain strenuousness in the formation of good habits is necessary because every such habit is the result of conflict."
One thing that was a little confusing to me:
In Ch.1 point#3 she speaks of taking away the child's free-will and making him an "automaton" - I think this is a rhetorical question that would be answered negatively, but I am not sure. By training the child in good habits are we turning him into a robot? I think not, but can't this be taken in the wrong way? We ar enot taking away his free will - we are trying to instill these habits so that one day he will want to do them freely. Help!
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Amy, Mom to 8
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Chesterton was PNEU educated?????  I did not know that!
JennGM wrote:
I always see that being dressed and up before the kids makes my day so much better.
Is your baby waking up at predictable hours? That's my struggle -- we're not getting the same time each morning. And now that he and I are not sleeping at night, my morning routine is shot! Sometimes those early morning hours are the best sleep I get. |
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I TRY to be up, showered and dresseed, etc. before them....but it doesn't always happen, for the same reasons. When it doesn't happen, I altar MY morning routine, but keep THEIRS the same. IOW, I'm diligent with getting them ready, and moving them along...it's just done with me in my jammies, and then I shower when there is a lull sometime before noon. It's not ideal and I don't feel the best, but keeping their routine going is imp.
When my husband is in town and he sees that this is the situation for the day, I've asked him to remind me that it's no big deal....and to just go with it.
amyzkids8 wrote:
One thing that was a little confusing to me:
In Ch.1 point#3 she speaks of taking away the child's free-will and making him an "automaton" - I think this is a rhetorical question that would be answered negatively, but I am not sure. By training the child in good habits are we turning him into a robot? I think not, but can't this be taken in the wrong way? We ar enot taking away his free will - we are trying to instill these habits so that one day he will want to do them freely. Help!
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I'm going to re-read this tonight. But, it goes along the lines of something that I've wondered about, but haven't been able to put words to. How to make habits not "rigid." How do habit formation and unschooling mix? What to require vs. what creates creativity and spontaneity in our home education environments? Just throwing out some questions that have been rolling around.....
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Suzanne in ID
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JennGM
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SuzanneG wrote:
| Chesterton was PNEU educated????? I did not know that! |
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Oh, I got it wrong, of course! His wife, Frances Blogg, worked in a PNEU office in London before he married G.K. Mater Amabilis used to have a picture (it doesn't seem to load now) with Chesterton and his wife and the first PNEU student.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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missionfamily
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Jenn--The whole six week thing can feel discouraging to me too...I like to feel like I'm getting a lot accomplished! It's hard to be patient and persistent. But one thought that has helped me is to think through the moral and spiritual ends of the physical habits. For instance, we are working on an established chore routine in this house, morning and afternoon chores...so I need to take six weeks to really ingrain those habits...but if we practice doing those jobs cheerfully and generously, if I encourage excellence in the process, and if I help them keep mentally focused while working, then in those six weeks, I've worked on a whole heap of things much bigger than the chore routine. That helps me to stay persistent. Those habits are much more worthwhile to me than the chores, and the are things I can be owrking on in myself over the course of those weeks too.
I figure if six weeks later we are all a bit more cheerful, generous, and focused, and I get a good chore routine to boot, that's well worth the effort.
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Colleen
dh Greg
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Rachel May
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JennGM wrote:
| Is your baby waking up at predictable hours? |
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Yes, sweet boy is very good to his mom! He nurses around 5:30 and then again at 8 which works perfectly for me. I have twice missed my shower, but I still get dressed so as to not let the let the habit slip as in the example of the boy closing the door.
I've been thinking about CM and Classical stages and am considering that in the early days (grammatical stage) the habits must be memorized, then in the next stage (dialectic)--after the habit is ingrained--the discussion of why becomes appropriate. I don't see that it makes sense to explain consequences to a 3 year old but it does to discuss them with my 7 and 9 year olds.
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Rachel
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Laying Down the Rails Discussion
