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Lisa R
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| Posted: July 22 2006 at 3:02pm | IP Logged
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Okay, it looks like no one uses or has used Learning Language Arts Through Literature so how about The Arrow from Bravewriter?
Pros/cons? Do you add anything else?
Thanks!
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God Bless!
Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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Lisbet
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| Posted: July 22 2006 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
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I'd be interested to hear also. I keep looking at this, going back to this, and looking some more! 
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
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Jen L.
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| Posted: July 22 2006 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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While you are waiting for some responses, Here are some links (there are many more) to other threads:
Teaching researching and writing skills
Writing programs
This one has info on LLATL AND Bravewriter Arrow!!!
Bravewriter Lifestyle
more on Bravewriter
Hope this helps!
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Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
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KC in TX
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| Posted: July 22 2006 at 10:11pm | IP Logged
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I don't know how I missed all the post about Bravewriter, but it sounds like such a wonderful product. I'm waiting on dh to check it out to see if he agrees. If so, I'm buying it. It's expensive though. $97!!! However, I think of it as an investment for all the children so it's really $25 per kid.
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KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
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Michaela ('01)
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Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
The Cabbage Patch
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Dawn
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 6:03am | IP Logged
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I'm looking for a writing program too, Lisa. My oldest (11yo ds) is well read and his comprehension/vocabulary/spelling is on track but he *really* needs help with writing. I am looking at CHC's Lingua Mater, but Bravewriter is very appealing.
There seem to be so many parts to Bravewriter. What are the first steps to take and the first thing(s) to order? Do I order the Arrow or the Writers Jungle? Is Writers Jungle like a how-to and the Arrow is the program?
I'll have to look through the threads Jen posted after Mass. 
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 8:43am | IP Logged
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The main thing is the Writers Jungle. If you get that you don't really need anything else. It is all I use. The Arrow is simply an aid in dictation. It gives you specific passages to dictate (4 per issue), plus Julie explains why she chose each passage and what to focus on with dc. If you look at the sample for Farmer Boy you'll see what I mean. Then each issue also gives tips on one writing element (like vivid description in the Farmer Boy issue).
I don't use the Arrow because I don't do dictation, but if I did, it seems like a great tool.
The Arrow, however, is NOT the main thing. That would be her book, TWJ. It is a guide for the parent on how to teach writing and seemlessly integrate writing into your learning lifestyle. For those used to formulaic writing programs (like I was) it will really make you see writing with children in a new and very different light. To me it was a breath of fresh air!
If there is one complaint I have it is that her website is confusing to so many people. 
My advice is to go to this page. Then look at the SIDEBAR and read all the pages on dictation, copywork, teatime, freewrites, etc, etc.
This will give you an excellent idea of what Bravewriter is all about. The Writers Jungle is very much like an expanded version of those pages. Then you will see that dictation is a very small part of the Bravewriter program and the Arrow is only a tool to address that one part.
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Theresa
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LaPaz Home Learning
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Dawn
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 9:51am | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
| It is a guide for the parent on how to teach writing and seemlessly integrate writing into your learning lifestyle. |
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Sounds wonderful! 
lapazfarm wrote:
| If there is one complaint I have it is that her website is confusing to so many people. |
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I'm glad it wasn't just me!
lapazfarm wrote:
| My advice is to go to this page. Then look at the SIDEBAR and read all the pages on dictation, copywork, teatime, freewrites, etc, etc. This will give you an excellent idea of what Bravewriter is all about. |
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Thanks, Theresa! This is just what I needed to know. I have sensed this program would work for us, but just couldn't get a handle on it.
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Lisa R
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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Thanks everyone for all the replies and help. 
I guess I should have mentioned  that I already own The Writers Jungle and use that for writing. I was just looking for grammar help and thought of using The Arrow for that.
So Arrow users.....do you feel it covers everything you need in grammar? Do you think you have to read the book Julie uses for each month?
Thanks again!
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God Bless!
Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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lilac hill
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| Posted: July 23 2006 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
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I have had TWJ for almost a year.
I have slowly been adding some of its components to our writing.
Diagnostically it has pointed out the different stages of writing development. Pinpointing where DD#3 was helped me set realistic goals for the next stage.
I keep rereading parts (it came off the shelf again last night) so I can encourage writing the same way I encouraged speech when DD#3 was little.
I find TWJ to be like CM (at least for me)--an approach/attitude rather than a lesson plan. There is no tidy workbook or list of skills to achieve within a set school year. It does take time for conversation, taking dictation, co-writing, and yes even doing the activities with your child. I think that is why I am slowly adding to our Bravewriter process, I was not ready to make the time for the whole.
I also like that the activities seem to be directed towards writing not always the components of writing. After all, beginner piano players work on songs, even when they are learning notes and mastering scales.
This year I will be using The Arrow as a guide for literature. I believe it will keep us on track.
I plan on using the dictation passages as the basis of our grammar study. We did this with dictation last year as well. When there is not a specific punctuation or capitalization rule focus for the week we will cover parts of speech. After searching around we will not be using a specific grammar book but will cover the topics using Nitty Gritty Grammar book and learning Grammar through Writing. I had been searching for a grammar program that was not too dry and removed from the writing process, but I just could not find what I was looking for, at least for this year. 
Last year we did do a one month subscription with writeguide. That was very successful. The guided writing and email interaction with our teacher was wonderful. DD#3 , after an emotional start, really worked hard on the daily assignments. Becasue it was an intense month for DD#3, I would recommend starting slowly with writeguide.
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Wife to Rick (7/83), Mom to dd#1(6/87), dd#2(1/90), and dd#3(6/94) in central PA.
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Angel
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| Posted: July 29 2006 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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Lately I've been thinking about ways to get my oldest (ds 9.5) to start writing. He has had significant problems with handwriting in the past, so that the physical act of writing took up all his brain space. Typing was too slow and clumsy as well, and I have always gotten the sense that he doesn't want to try to write because he has such a hard time with spelling. He tells the most creative and imaginative stories to himself and his sister, but when I have offered to type them up for him, he won't take me up on it. (Which I understand, because writing can be a pretty private thing!)
Anyway, as a fiction writer myself, I have felt that the best thing to do would be to give him space... and a lot of art materials, because that was basically how I annotated my own stories before I started writing them down at the age of 12. He spends hours a day drawing, and I think it has improved his physical abilities and his concentration to the point where he *might* be open to a little guided writing. But I don't want to set him back with too much formality.
So... my (longwinded) question. How does Bravewriter work with kids who aren't completely language arts oriented or who have special needs and/or learning disabilities? Can someone give me some examples of, say, how it works in your house?
I'm trying to be a little careful with this because in the past I have rushed into matters of curriculum with abandon and spent a lot of money... only to fall flat on my face. I'd love to read The Writer's Jungle, but $97 seems like a lot if it's just to satisfy my curiousity!!
--Angela
Mom to five
Three Plus Two
Wild Things
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lapazfarm
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Angela,
I think Bravewriter is all about meeting your child where he is at, finding out what inspires him, and encouraging him to develop his own voice.
There is a tremendous amount of flexibility in the methods that allow for you, the teacher, to reach your child and find his inner wordsmith.
I think your idea of letting ds draw out his narrations is very much in line with something Julie would suggest. In fact she advises to start off with just a word, or a list of words (Christmas gifts, favorite movies, books read, etc) just to get a reluctant child writing. Can he put captions or "thought bubbles" on his pictures?
Friday freewrites may at first yield nothing but "I can't think of anything to write, la la la ..." but eventually there will be more as an interest sparks an idea which grows into words in a story.
Julie reminds us that conversation is key to getting our kids to express themselves. Get them talking and then jot down what they say when they tell about a movie they've seen or a game they played. Show it to them later and ask "Is this what you meant to say? Did I get this right?" Eventually they will get the picture that writing is just sharing experiences and that comes naturally in a home where we are interested in each other's lives.
Honestly, it took us a little time to get into the Bravewriter groove. My ds at age 8 or 9 was already burned out on writing due to his public school experience where every assignment was a prep for the big end-of-year test. I mean he hated it. I nearly pulled my hair out when after a couple of months of freewrite I was getting a sentence or two from him out of topics I knew he was interested in. Then one day at freewrite time he asked me what was the topic and I didn't have one for him. I had no time as I had to go out to the barn to care for an injured horse. My answer was "anything you want." and I left the house for an hour. Thus began "The Tale of Lantis," his novel which he is now blogging chapter by chapter.
It finally clicked with him and now he sees writing as a fun, pleasurable experience. He still doesn't care for reports (who does, really), but he wrote one fantastic pirate journal last year and had a blast with it.
So, how do we do Bravewriter? We do the friday freewrites, the tuesday tea, the wednesday movie discussion, the grammar games and we write. Our goal is as Julie advises: one polished piece per month, taken through the whole writing process (which she describes in detail in The Writers Jungle). Everything else is just for fun. We do not do the Arrow, or any dictation. We do a little copywork, mostly prayers or poems ds likes and wants to type up and decorate. We do some small written pieces (like captions and such) to go in his various subject area notebooks. And that's about that.
Hope this answers at least some of your questions.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Angel
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 7:29am | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
So, how do we do Bravewriter? We do the friday freewrites, the tuesday tea, the wednesday movie discussion, the grammar games and we write. Our goal is as Julie advises: one polished piece per month, taken through the whole writing process (which she describes in detail in The Writers Jungle). Everything else is just for fun. We do not do the Arrow, or any dictation. We do a little copywork, mostly prayers or poems ds likes and wants to type up and decorate. We do some small written pieces (like captions and such) to go in his various subject area notebooks. And that's about that.
Hope this answers at least some of your questions.
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Yes, thank you! (By the way, I had seen your post about his Tale of Lantis on your blog and was impressed.) I've thought for a long time how silly it is being a writer (me) who has no clue how to go about teaching writing, but at least I've had some very definitive opinions about how I *didn't* want to go about it (i.e. very structured, formalized, etc.) I freewrite myself -- used to be every day, but since the babies were born, my output of all kinds of writing has really dwindled.
--Angela
Three Plus Two
Wild Things
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lapazfarm
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Angel wrote:
I freewrite myself -- used to be every day, but since the babies were born, my output of all kinds of writing has really dwindled.
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I'm glad you brought that up, Angela! That is one thing I forgot to mention! I often will sit down and write side-by-side with ds. It helps for him to have a good example, and I need to do it more.
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Dawn
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Well, I ordered The Writer's Jungle yesterday!  Now I am trying to decide if we should subscribe to The Arrow. (I almost did and then thought I'd re-read this thread.)
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KC in TX
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Dawn wrote:
| Well, I ordered The Writer's Jungle yesterday! Now I am trying to decide if we should subscribe to The Arrow. (I almost did and then thought I'd re-read this thread.) |
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I received mine yesterday, Dawn. I'm also where you are--trying to decide whether The Arrow would be something we would really use or not.
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KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
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Michaela ('01)
Emma ('03)
Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 30 2006 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
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I advise taking it slowly. There is a LOT to digest in there! You can subscribe to the Arrow at any time or just on a month by month basis if you decide to incorporate it.
We have been using TWJ for a year and a half and I am just starting to feel like I may want to add in the Arrow. I think I will wait at least until mid-year while we get back into the swing of things again before adding another element. Then again, I will most likely wait until next year. Of course, you ladies may be quicker studies than me!
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Theresa
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LaPaz Home Learning
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MarieC
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I, too, have considered using TWJ/The Arrow and am also unsure if it's exactly right (the $97 price tag is a little scary!). I found this sample of The Arrow at the Bravewriter site. I was glad to see what it really looks like.
Thanks, Theresa, for the great review. I have a much better feel for how this can work with a reluctant writer.
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Marie
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dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
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Angel
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Thanks, Marie. That link answered many of my questions about The Arrow. I don't think we need it yet, as neither of my school-age kids (age 7 and 9.5) can do dictation that advanced. My dd 7 does her copywork in Memoria Press's copywork book, and I choose passages out of the books we're reading for my son, or from ones that he's reading.
I've been convinced as far as The Writer's Jungle is concerned, though. Unfortunately, money's a little tight right now since we decided to take a vacation. I'll have to wait till the end of August to order it. 
--Angela
Mom to five
Three Plus Two
Wild Things
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Bravewriter - The Arrow
