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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 16 2007 at 3:20pm | IP Logged
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Since reading Theresa's planning postI have been thinking about project based learning. Right now I'm reading aloud to the kids for an hour to an hour and a half in the mornings (with oral narration), which is something that works pretty well for us. But the rest of the day is not working so well. It's not going really *badly*, but a focus on workbooks and texts for the skill subjects seems to have become mainly "maintenance learning." There isn't a whole lot of joy in it (and sometimes downright resistance from my 10 yo ds) and I'm not sure the kids are really *learning* a whole lot anyway.
I have tried to implement a Montessori approach for about the past year with not a whole lot of success. The babies always seem to be one step ahead of me, in terms of what they can reach and/or open. But recently we took the plunge and ordered some cabinets for our dining room. I think I can use some of this space for project supplies (we can put child-safe locks on the doors), and my goal is to have things set up for a more project-based approach by late spring. Both of my kids enjoy hands-on work, although my 10 yo does benefit from knowing *exactly* what is expected of him (something which may be a little tough without workbooks).
Anyway, this seems like a lot of blathering to set up my questions. While I am in the planning stage, I would like to know:
If you do a lot of hands-on work, where do you get your ideas? What are your favorite resources?
How do you work your projects into your schedule along with read-alouds?
What kind of requirements do you have concerning what projects are done and how much work each child does? (I'm thinking here of my 10 yo, who often rejects my brilliant ideas even though he says he'd like me to plan more crafts/projects for him. Hopefully, Theresa's index cards will help with that; last year I tried a variation on the same idea and it worked pretty well for us.)
I think I will also post some related questions over on the Montessori board, but this is probably enough for now!
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Feb 16 2007 at 4:17pm | IP Logged
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Ok, in case it helps, I will try to give you a picture of my thought process.(A peek inside Theresa's mind...yikes! )
Once ds and I decide on a topic, say American History, first thing I think of is which literature I would like him to read, because nothing makes history come alive like good literature. These can be read-alouds or he can read them on his own. We do both, depending on how much time I have to sit down and read with him.
For Early American History I chose the Little House books and the Holling C Holling books, among others.
Then I read over the books and I think "If it were me reading these books for the first time, what project would I like to do?"
Ex: Reading "Paddle to the Sea" would I want to...
a. trace the path the boat took on a map, researching points of interest along the way?
b. write a report about the importance of dams, canals and locks to trade routes in the great lakes region?
c. Make my own little boat and set it free, figuring out where it will end up going on it's way to the sea?
If you answered c then you think like me.
Honestly, that is how I plan projects. I then write my ideas up on my little cards, and ds gives them a thumbs up or down, or modifies them somehow with his own ideas. Usually I am pretty on target with him.
As far as requirements, there are a few:
1. I usually like a project to have some sort of research component, even if it is just that he needs to look up some more information on his own in order to do the project. In other words, he needs to learn something from doing it.
2. It needs to be quality work. Otherwise why do it?
3. It is open to revision, but not abridgement! In other words, if he doesn't like one part of the project, fine, don't do it. But do something else worthy in it's place.
4. Take all the time you need to do a good job, but do work diligently. If you get frustrated or bored, move on to something else. Tomorrow is another day.
I hope that helps, or at least answers your questions about how I do it.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Alcat
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| Posted: Feb 17 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged
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Theresa,
I loved your post too! I really like the ease of ideas on cards. I feel like this is something very doable.
However.... my ds 8 sounds like yours Angela. He shoots down all my ideas. He likes the idea of projects- but not mine. I'm thinking of having my dh and I sit down and write out the ideas- if they come from daddy they will be better recieved 
My son is also stuck in that stage right now of "I just want to get the work done, check off my boxes and do anything other than school work"  So, right now seems to be a good time to give Theresa's plans a whirl 
I love the Montesorri ideas for my 2yr old and 4yrold, but they tend to run off with the materials and lose things or use the materials for other activites 
I've started putting them up at the counter with one activity because my 2yr old can't get down by herself and it gives the 4yr old the boundary he needs to keep the materials in ONE place.
Hey Theresa, I saw a pic of your ds using a beautiful looking microscope... what kind is it? I would love to invest in one soon.
God Bless,
Alison
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mom to ds15, dd13 ,ds11, dd8, dd6, ds4, & dd18mos
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Kim F
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| Posted: Feb 17 2007 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
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Angela, we have used Konos on and off for several years. I adapt with Catholic content. Sometimes we go into "Robinson mode" where we just hit language, faith and math for a stretch. When we come back to projects I tend to use Konos simply because the plans are all laid out and much less intense than most. I can't plan AND implement anymore with my workload.
Kim
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 18 2007 at 3:30pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
If you answered c then you think like me.
Honestly, that is how I plan projects. I then write my ideas up on my little cards, and ds gives them a thumbs up or down, or modifies them somehow with his own ideas. Usually I am pretty on target with him.
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I *wish* I thought like you, Theresa. Even as a kid, though, if I read a book that really caught my interest, it wouldn't occur to me to actually *do* something in conjunction with it. Instead I would read every book I could find that would relate to it, and I would probably end up incorporating it into pretend play or writing about it somehow, in diary form or as part of a short story or novel. Which is why I have a bit of a problem in the "project" area. When I *see* a good idea for a project, I think, "Oh, that's a good idea for a project," but I have a hard time putting it into action.
Still, my kids really enjoy the projects we do. So I am going to have to learn to think a little more creatively. I also appreciated your list of rules, as my ds has a *very strong* personality, and sometimes I get a little unsure of how reasonable the boundaries are that I create.
Thanks, Theresa!
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 18 2007 at 3:43pm | IP Logged
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Kim F wrote:
Angela, we have used Konos on and off for several years. I adapt with Catholic content. Sometimes we go into "Robinson mode" where we just hit language, faith and math for a stretch. When we come back to projects I tend to use Konos simply because the plans are all laid out and much less intense than most. I can't plan AND implement anymore with my workload.
Kim |
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Kim, how flexible is Konos? I have looked at their modules in a box -- or whatever it is they call them -- but most are in resource guide form, aren't they?
I will admit here that part of our problem is math. (And spelling.) My ds has some special needs in those areas, but apparently using regular texts drives him insane. (At least you might think so by the level of complaining in my house.) I was sort of hoping that after we had completed a certain amount of his Saxon book, I would experiment with projects that incorporated math, but used it in conjunction with subjects which are a whole lot more palatable to him -- history and science. (Of course, he's still got to learn his times tables.)
I guess I am just returning to that point at which I always seem to get frustrated. For me, a Charlotte Mason approach is very natural. But it still requires a couple of texts (most notably math). At the beginning of the school year, I dig in my heels for what I know will be a battle over certain subjects for which we will use texts, but by February the constant complaining has made it so that I do not look forward to Mondays. (Being first trimester pregnant doesn't make it any easier.)
I don't really have a lot of time to spend putting projects together, but homeschooling just seems to be tough even when we're using the "easy" method.
(I probably should have written this when I was feeling a little less exhausted. )
--Angela
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Kim F
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| Posted: Feb 18 2007 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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First off remember all you really need them to master is math and language. I say that all the time but it bears repeating because that keeps the rest in perspective. If you CANT get to a project but they did get some respectable math and language done you are GOOD! Really!
I sneak in the work throughout the day - reading during meals, group stuff when the toddler is busy with his toys, one on one when I am sitting nursing the baby or cooking. I use edu-videos from the library (or netflix)on our topics to get more mileage and give myself a teaching break.
I found Konos a bit overwhelming when I first started hmscing. Butlife was overwhelming then. Biggest problem was trying to add too much and not being able to find the necessary "stuff". Stuff is easier to find now with the internet, library loan, and homeschool supply catalogs. Way back in the dark ages of hmscing 16 yrs ago forget it if you were in a small town etc. So for whatever combination of the above reasons, it is easier now. I just do what is suggested, order the books/tapes from the library, and then surf teacherfilebox.com for related workpages. Enchantedlearning would work well too.
The in-a-box units they have are way nice. They give detailed morning and afternoon plans with lit studies and language skills woven in. They are much like The Classics or other lit based units that way. The original volumes have weekly plans instead of daily. It works fine for me because we can pace ourselves if things get sticky. The weekly plans are on one page and have a supplies list, a read aloud bk suggestion, a couple bks for each of three age levels, and a list of the activities to do. I like the idea of detailed lessons but in reality I can cope with a page at a glance better. I need the big picture vs spending the day with my head in a manual.
Also I know now I dont need to do ALL the activities. You can do Konos in a more kinesthetic manner or a more CM manner by focusing more on the hands on or more on the reading and discussing.
There are other published units certainly. Stewardship is VERY nice and not terribly expensive. The Hands of a Child lapbook kits have units written into them too. The Weaver used to be very popular though you hear less now. I have a 3 wk sample of Tapestry of Grace and would say stay away. It is incredible but no human being could hope to do that with any number of "thing one" or "thing two"'s in tow. Besides, you have to remember that elementary kids can only really absorb so much. A few meaningful projects go a long way. It is enough to do one experiment to demonstrate plant growth for instance. You dont need to finish the whole Biology for Kids bk to make your point. Likewise making butter in the blender is a fine rabbit trail off Little House. You don't need to also arrange a dairy barn field trip and build a small cabin. <g> Any one of those things will help create a peg on which they can hang the academic info.
Not sure if that makes sense. If you have a specific Q holler!
Kim : )
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lapazfarm
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Kim F wrote:
Besides, you have to remember that elementary kids can only really absorb so much. A few meaningful projects go a long way. It is enough to do one experiment to demonstrate plant growth for instance. You dont need to finish the whole Biology for Kids bk to make your point. Likewise making butter in the blender is a fine rabbit trail off Little House. You don't need to also arrange a dairy barn field trip and build a small cabin. <g> Any one of those things will help create a peg on which they can hang the academic info.
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Totally agree here. One thing I have learned is that you don't need to beat a dead horse. Just have one little project (per subject or topic) that, as you said, creates a peg.
That is one of the problems we have had with prepackaged unit-studies, etc in the past. Overkill.
That's why I design my own now. I know how much is enough for my dc and can move on.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Kim F
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 at 7:17am | IP Logged
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I found a link to a sample Konos unit. This gives you an idea of what it is like minus the lesson plan page. I will cross post to Rabbit Trails.
Kim
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Angel
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| Posted: Feb 20 2007 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
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Had a longer post written, but a baby just deleted it. So I will just say thanks before the messageboard closes down for Lent!
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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Erin
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Angel wrote:
| Since reading Theresa's planning postI have been thinking about project based learning. Right now I'm reading aloud to the kids for an hour to an hour and a half in the mornings (with oral narration), which is something that works pretty well for us. But the rest of the day is not working so well. It's not going really *badly*, but a focus on workbooks and texts for the skill subjects seems to have become mainly "maintenance learning." There isn't a whole lot of joy in it (and sometimes downright resistance from my 10 yo ds) and I'm not sure the kids are really *learning* a whole lot anyway. |
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Angela
I can so relate I'm interested to know where you went with the project based learning. Did you manage to get anything happening? Are you still feeeling lacking in 'joy'? If not what did the trick? 
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Angel
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| Posted: Aug 03 2007 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
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Erin,
I saw your post on the other thread, but haven't had time to read the whole thread yet. I think it is interesting that I posted this question in February (i.e., mid-winter) as that's my hardest month, as it is for many people. On the other hand, I can say that a switch to more project-based schooling *did* help at the time, and I hope to get back to it once the baby is born and things settle down a bit (I hope!!!)
Some of the things I learned from last Feb-May:
1. My 10 yo ds likes doing projects, but he isn't nearly as self-starting as Superboy. He needs a little more structure. But he really liked the checklists I gave him, and the freedom to choose what he was going to do in each subject (within limits) and when (within limits.) This is actually a pretty Montessori way of doing things, even though a lot of the material he uses (math books, etc.) is not typical Montessori material.
2. A project-based approach requires you to stay one step ahead of the kids. This is a problem for me, but I'm working on it. When we fell down on this, it was because I had run out of ideas or hadn't done enough planning. When I had enough choices planned out for my 10 yo, things went very smoothly.
3. My 8 yo doesn't like me to mess with her interests, so I have to take a different approach to her education. She really enjoys doing crafts, projects, experiments, etc., but they can't have anything to do with her special interests for some reason. ("Science" is ok, but I couldn't give her three choices of projects she could do about birds -- even though her whole life revolved around birds for 3 or 4 months.)
4. I think my joy comes from a couple of different sources: watching the kids' faces light up when they find something that really interests them; hearing the excitement in their voices when they talk about their interests or tell me about something they did; good discussions; and variety. Honestly, I can get interested in a lot of stuff myself, and I have learned so much because of my kids that I never would have thought to learn about on my own. If I'm just focused on getting the kids through a textbook or a top-down program, I'm not learning very much. If, however, I am trying to help a kid discover what makes lightning or how to draw a rose or how the Battle of Gettysburg was fought... then I can get excited. Or if I'm trying to figure out a novel approach to spelling to help my spelling-disabled son learn... or if I'm trying to figure out how (or if) to use Montessori with my 4 yo... *then* I'm engaged. But if I'm just doing the same old thing every day... and if I'm dealing with lots of discipline problems because I have kids who also need variety and constant challenge and input... then I'm not very happy. And frankly, the kids aren't either.
Anyway, that's what I learned from our experiment, and to be honest, I don't think I'll be tempted to go with a textbook approach again.
--Angela
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Erin
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Angel wrote:
| I think my joy comes from a couple of different sources: watching the kids' faces light up when they find something that really interests them; hearing the excitement in their voices when they talk about their interests or tell me about something they did; good discussions; and variety. Honestly, I can get interested in a lot of stuff myself, and I have learned so much because of my kids that I never would have thought to learn about on my own. If I'm just focused on getting the kids through a textbook or a top-down program, I'm not learning very much. If, however, I am trying to help a kid discover what makes lightning or how to draw a rose or how the Battle of Gettysburg was fought... then I can get excited. Or if I'm trying to figure out a novel approach to spelling to help my spelling-disabled son learn... or if I'm trying to figure out how (or if) to use Montessori with my 4 yo... *then* I'm engaged. But if I'm just doing the same old thing every day... and if I'm dealing with lots of discipline problems because I have kids who also need variety and constant challenge and input... then I'm not very happy. And frankly, the kids aren't either. |
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Angela
As 'Anne with an e' says we are 'kindred spirits' You are describing myself here.
I found your other points made alot of sense also. In the past when I have dabbled a little or even of I am trying a Montessori approach to our faith it always works well if I have planned enough. But then this is a problem, I am not a natural planner by nature. I enjoy doing a broad outline, ie. we will read these books but that is about the extent of my skill. However I have never used(other than maths) nor intend to use textbooks so obviously I have to plan
So how does 'my' nature cope with project based learning where I need to have planned enough so that I have materials on hand so the learning process is uninterrupted. The balance needs to be found between planning sufficently to enhance learning and not overdoing it so that plans can be flexible. Any tips here will be greatly appreciated.
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Erin
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Project Based Learning
