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Elizabeth
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In another thread,
juliecinci wrote:
I had meant to post something I learned from Sandra Dodd, one of the unschooling gurus on the big yahoo list. She says that instead of a big announcement that changes how life is lived, simply start dropping scheduled activities, spend all your time with your kids and say "yes" more often.
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I've been thinking lately that just because we educate our children without sending them to school, we don't necessarily spend all our time with our kids. We can alos be in the same house with them, but not really tuned into them. I'm sure there are seasons when it's not appropriate to spend all our time with our kids. Personally, however, I'm feeling an overwhelming call to do just that.
Do you really make yourself fully present to your children most of the time? How do you do that? What distracts you from your children?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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Well, I may be fitting something I was thinking about posting already into your question, but I think it fits so I'll post it here.
"What distracts you from your children?" I'm realizing that what primarily distracts me from my children is my own plans. I get so focused on pushing them through whatever hoops I believe are necessary at the moment that I just lose track of them. I lose track of who they are and what they might actually need. I lose the joy that comes with just quietly sitting back and observing who they are. I lose the insight that comes from letting them share who they are with me by sharing their interests with me. All this gets lost in a slog through all the things that "have to get done". Of course there are things that truly do have to get done, but gosh I'm realizing there are SO many fewer of these things than I used to think. So many things that I thought had to get done in some exact way, I'm now beginning to see will get done in their time if I'm just patient and keep my observation keen to what's naturally happening in my children.
So what do I do to really make myself fully present to my children?
- Let go of my own agenda -
I'm still working this through, so for me it's still in the experimental phase. I've been thinking about control and who should have it, as I've contemplated unschooling. I've come to understand I will still ultimately be in charge of our school. I still have overall goals for what I believe my children need to be functional adults. But when I look honestly at what I've had on my plate as essentials, most of them just aren't. So I let it go. At the moment my plan is to step back and be more patient about how those overall goals are accomplished. Give the reigns to my children and watch what they do with them. Unschooling seems to require that you step back a bit. It seems to require that you observe your kids and that you are attentive to what is interesting them.
I always thought a benefit of homeschooling is that you could cater the education to your child's interests. In reality, I ignored my childrens interests for the goal of "following the plan". When I would actually observe an interest, I would go off on my own tangent creating a plan that I believed would engage his interest. Guess what -- it never worked! Now I'm realizing that I was still pushing my own plans on him. What I'm hoping to do in the future is to try to provide materials that will feed a demonstrated interest, but will let my children direct the way that interest will be played out. I'm going to need to be carefully observing what they are learning as they pursue those interests. Then I can be aware of what may need to placed in their path to enhance weak areas.
The picture I've gathered about unschooling seems to revolve around environment. It seems to be about creating an environment that gives the kids freedom and time to explore their God-given interests. It's also an environment that fosters a patient, observant attitude in the parent. Yet it's also an environment that allows parent's the authority to guide those interests in that patient and observant way. Unschooling as a way to be more attentive to my kids seems like a very good fit. It takes away my biggest stumbling block - dogged devotion to MY plans. It puts in place my biggest incentive - fostering a love of learning in my kids.
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amiefriedl
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Elizabeth,
How much time should a mom with little ones spend a week doing educational-type research? I'm guessing, of my daylight hours with the kids, about 2 hours a day are spent reading and researching, with additional at night after their bedtime.
(Because I have #3 due in about 10 weeks, I have been also allowing my home preparations for the new baby (dejunking toys, clothes, getting menus/food organized) rule my day. And I think this necessary and worthwhile, though it could certainly be overdone.)
The main distraction that has lead to my children spending a great deal of the day on their own is my justification of learning about learning. I have figured since they are young that my time is well spent learning about all these things that we spend such a great deal of time discussing here on this message board. I'm reading books constantly, taking notes, considering our options, reconsidering as I learn new perspectives and so forth.
I know it is time well spent, but my children are spending much of the day playing by themselves. When I do get around to doing a project with them or reading to them or playing with them, the dear souls really soak it up. Understandably so. Mommy has had her nose poked in books and notebooks every week and of course there is the additional laundry, food prep, bills, my NAPS and other housework that still goes on in between.
I'm really counting on the ages of my children to smooth over this learning time for me. I'm counting on this being one of "those seasons" that we will go through before our schooling takes off.
You already understand these different teaching philosophies so well; the techniques, the childrearing, the faith too, and have probably had "this season" in one fashion or another and can see what I'm trying to accomplish. But how much time spent on this pursuit is justifiable when the little ones are growing up so quickly?
I feel I'm on the right path, but my kids are NOT seeing much of my face, which is ALWAYS a concern as you have so reasonably put forth. Is there a missing- a different perspective to what I'm doing? I suspect that many of the newer moms with littles are attempting the same approach here that I'm working on and could use some cautioning. Where would a mother be without nagging doubts?  They grow so quickly and the weeks fly by.
Or perhaps I just need another book recommendation?  
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In Christ the King through Mary our Mother,
Amie
Blessed with an awesome hubby and Mom of ds10, dd7, dd3 and dd 10months.
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Elizabeth
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Dear Amie,
I did not have the distraction of the internet until my fourth child was a baby. I think that that could get out of hand pretty easily. I know it does here at times. I also think there is only so much research that you can do before you just dive in a nd do it. Some of what you ultimately end up doing with your children and their education will hinge on your children. You need to study them as much as you study those books. One thing that I found to be huge blessing was talks on tape. You can access and order all the talks from past NACHE conferences at NACHE and some others from evangelical conferences around the country at Best Christian Conferences . I found I could listen to talks on home management, educational philosophy, curriculum, etc. all while doing household chores. It didn't hurt my kids to hear those talks on the periphery as well. Perhaps, other folks can post their favorite tapes and tape sites.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cheryl
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This is a very interesting post. I too have my nose in a book quite a bit. My dd (almost 3) still likes to nurse a lot, and I always read during that time. I read to all three kids (she can nurse and look at the book at the same time) or if the boys are playing I say, "Let me get my book." She waits for me, then nurses while I read. The computer distracts me from my kids. Right now I'm trying to only go on the computer when they are sleeping at night. But here I am posting a message during Quiet Time. I'm not taking away from the time with the kids, but it's suppose to be my time for napping, prayer, meditation, etc. On some days I can get on a roll talking on the phone... My projects that I get involved in like edging mulch beds, sweeping the driveway, installing a closet system....most time my oldest ds is helping me, but the younger two are playing on their own or "interrupting" the project. Writing this is helping me to be more aware of the way that I am. I love to make schedules and I'm always tweaking them. On Mother's Day I changed my MOTH schedule, which wasn't exactly working, to a Large Family Logistics Home Management Binder. My family is not very large yet, but it looked so organized and I love organizing. Today was our first Town Day. It was stressful. The kids didn't follow the store rules. It also seemed extremely inefficient to food shop with three children and only one adult. Do you all food shop with your children? Does it get easier the more you go? Generally, my husband or I do the shopping when the kids are in bed at night. There aren't as many people at the store then either. I better go now... There's laundry to fold, counters to clear and my kids want me to play outside with them.
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Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Leonie
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Interesting question, Elizabeth.
Recently, I have been undergoing a time of reflection re my vocation. I felt I needed to re-commit to my vocation as a wife and mother - and part of this has meant that I really need to BE with my dh and boys, to stop and listen and look at them, not with half a mind on something else.
Then I got sick.
While not feeling well and praying, it came to me that I also have a second calling and that is to help others - and part of that, for me, is the internet. And to learn and grow myself.
The internet is also part of my learning and growing process.
So, here I am. I am learning again to focus on truly being with my family - and to only use "set" times for other reading or the internet. I am trying to make those times the times *not when no-one needs me - I am trying to be with dh and the kids whether there is a need or not! lol! Instead, I am trying to make the time for the internet and reading to be the time when it is *truly not taking me away from the family - early a.m. or in the evening when dh is away or involved in work and the younger ones are in bed and the teens are at youth group, for example.
Amie, maybe setting a timer/time limit for your research may be helpful - I have often felt that I learned about education and parenting not only by reading and research but also by *being* more with my children and family .
Cheryl, it does get easier through practice. That said, remember that there are no set rules for this parenting/home management bit - if shopping with the dc is stressful and you or your dh enjoy the shopping alone, maybe that is a more productive use of your time than Town Day? And, let's face it - a closet system is nice ( to use your example above - I hope you don't mind) but our dc are *not the interruption - they are part and parcel of our home life and vocation ( speaking to myself here, not lecturing to others! lol!)
Leonie in Sydney, whose computer time is almost up as dh and the boys will be back from the pizza store any minute.
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juliecinci
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I wanted to quickly add that when I mentioned the principle of spending all your time with your kids, Sandra was meaning that that was the way to start unschooling. We will find a rhythm that includes time together and apart. But when one is making the transition from scheduled life and school to unschool, the danger is to simply abandon your kids to their interests. When that happens, there are a couple of problems that occur.
--The mom doesn't actually see the learning happening and gets cold feet after a month or so.
--The kids haven't discovered all the myriad ways there are to be happy and productive in the home. Moms know things kids don't - like how to bake, how to use the sewing machine or drill, how to prepare a bedroom wall for painting, where to find the binoculars and so on. If we leave them to themselves, they, too, can get stuck in ruts of behavior that will then "tell" us they aren't learning.
--Our kids feel abandonned, especially the ones who like routine. They might feel like the home is suddenly out of control. We kept doing regular teatimes and read alouds to give the structured kids ways to connect that were predictable.
The benefits to beginning this way (being together all the time) have been for us:
--When I spend a lot of time with our kids, I get to know them better. We can see what interests them and then encourage and support that interest. So a child who seems curious about jazz music will be thrilled when I bring home the PBS mini series on jazz and then *watch it with him.* Then we get to talk and watch that interest blossom.
--I have become much more respectful of their time on the computer, X box, TV etc. because I am a part of what they are doing. I discover how hard it is to beat a level, how irritating to be interupted in the middle, how clever sit com writing can be and so on.
--Initially, especially, I was ashamed of how little I really had been one on one with my kids in the old mode. I had gotten them started quite often and then did dishes or checked email or hovered... but I wasn't engaged. By being with them hours a day for months (at the beginning), I discovered the joy of being their mother, again. I grew in my confidence that a three hour game of Settlers was truly valuable (not just a diversion), that nature walks really were more impacting than a science class and so on.
Today, I don't spend every minute with my kids. There are some weeks where I am not available at all the way I know I need to be. But now that I know what it's like to be with them constantly, I find it is my barometer for what constitutes a good week of homeschool. How much time have I been with them? If the answer is "not enough," I find myself changing the schedule/my commitments to make more time together happen so that it includes several long, sustained hours together.
I do consider it my problem if they are in a rut. I see my primary task as creating opportunities for exposure to new ideas, activities and interests.
Julie
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Julie
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juliecinci
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tovlo4801 wrote:
The picture I've gathered about unschooling seems to revolve around environment. It seems to be about creating an environment that gives the kids freedom and time to explore their God-given interests. It's also an environment that fosters a patient, observant attitude in the parent. Yet it's also an environment that allows parent's the authority to guide those interests in that patient and observant way. Unschooling as a way to be more attentive to my kids seems like a very good fit. It takes away my biggest stumbling block - dogged devotion to MY plans. It puts in place my biggest incentive - fostering a love of learning in my kids.
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This is so good I just had to quote it. It's a perfect description for what I love about unschooling.
Julie
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Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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juliecinci
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amiefriedl wrote:
You already understand these different teaching philosophies so well; the techniques, the childrearing, the faith too, and have probably had "this season" in one fashion or another and can see what I'm trying to accomplish. But how much time spent on this pursuit is justifiable when the little ones are growing up so quickly?
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I'm not Elizabeth, but I can relate to the research mode and the feeling of not having all the information to make "right" choices.
One of the principles I teach in Brave Writer is what I call the "one thing" principle. We tend to want to do everything and then as a result do nothing. To reverse that particular curse, I always suggest doing one thing well. Pick it. It doesn't matter what it is. You know enough right now to do one thing that you've learned about and by which you've been inspired.
Prepare to do it
Execute it
Enjoy it
Reminisce about it
Then go on to the next ONE thing.
You can do this with teatimes and nature hikes or with parenting principles. Pick one idea and test it, live it, before accumulating so many you don't know where to begin.
Give yourself permission to make mistakes, to learn alongside your kids, to adjust and adapt every single year of homeschool. I used to tease that I reinvent homeschool every year. There's truth in that. I think I reinvent parenting too.
One of the temptations with such an information explosion is that we feel that we are just one google search away from the answer. But as someone else said, we will actually learn more by being with our own children and letting them teach us - who they are, what they love, how they grow and learn.
Our confidence, then, will be built on direct experience, not on the latest leearning model.
And about the faith. I live my questions and investigations in front of my kids. I bring my delight in things Christian to the table and share with my kids. We learn together. Bring what you know and love with you and live it before them. They will catch the spirit of who you are and what you love and help you grow there too.
__________________
Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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tovlo4801
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Thanks for all the concrete examples of how to guide our children. Everytime someone shares examples like this, my picture of what unschooling can look like gets more and more fine-tuned.
Also, thanks for the reinforcement that I'm headed in the right direction in my understanding. 
juliecinci wrote:
...I can relate to the research mode and the feeling of not having all the information to make "right" choices.
*****
Give yourself permission to make mistakes, to learn alongside your kids, to adjust and adapt every single year of homeschool. I used to tease that I reinvent homeschool every year. There's truth in that. I think I reinvent parenting too.
One of the temptations with such an information explosion is that we feel that we are just one google search away from the answer.
******
But as someone else said, we will actually learn more by being with our own children and letting them teach us - who they are, what they love, how they grow and learn.
Our confidence, then, will be built on direct experience, not on the latest leearning model. |
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I'm always tempted to read, search and question to find the perfect answer too. I agree that it's incredibly important to be educated about the job we've taken on. I also agree that the internet, books and this forum (and others) are rich sources of that information. I'm finally learning that our kids are one of the richest sources of information about how to do this job well. I find it all too easy to just skip that source and basically mess the whole thing up.  Something else that has been slowly dawning on me over the last year is that we can't possibly know everything there is to know about the myriad of ways to tackle homeschooling and parenting. We need to try to have faith that God will guide us to those pieces of information that are critical for our journey.
juliecinci wrote:
| And about the faith. I live my questions and investigations in front of my kids. I bring my delight in things Christian to the table and share with my kids. We learn together. Bring what you know and love with you and live it before them. They will catch the spirit of who you are and what you love and help you grow there too. |
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I love this comment. When my dh and I were in the process of converting to Catholicism we did this so much more. My oldest was only 5 at the time, but he now has such a deep understanding of spiritual things that it sometimes surprises me. I really believe it is in large part because he was involved in all those discussions about faith that we were trying to work through. We just don't have as many of those conversations anymore and I don't see that same deep spirituality in my youngest. Perhaps it's temperament, but I truly do wonder if it's not partially because he hasn't had the benefit of all those conversations where we were trying to work through things. Hopefully we can bring that back. I think there is such a benefit to our kids being right there with us while we work something out and not just always giving them the figured out package.
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Marybeth
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Oh, this topic has been on heart for the pass six months. I am cutting way back on my activities for the upcoming year. I spent too much time out of the home at night. I was heavily involved in several groups which lead to many phone calls and projects during the day. I was in tears in the winter b/c it felt like I was staying home for these organizations and not for my son. Thanks for the words of wisdom everyone!
Marybeth
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: May 15 2005 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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Marybeth wrote:
| Oh, this topic has been on heart for the pass six months. I am cutting way back on my activities for the upcoming year. |
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I'm right there with you, Marybeth! It all sort of crept up on me and I felt like my volunteer activities added up to a fulltime job! Cutting like crazy here!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801
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Marybeth wrote:
I was heavily involved in several groups which lead to many phone calls and projects during the day. I was in tears in the winter b/c it felt like I was staying home for these organizations and not for my son. Thanks for the words of wisdom everyone!
Marybeth |
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This must be very common! I struggle so much with this. It's taken me several years (and lot's of tears too, Marybeth), to make peace with the fact that my main act of service is to my own family right now. I still struggle with huge amounts of guilt when someone needs people to help with some project or another. I know my family will suffer if I take these things on, but I worry that I'm not serving the way I should if I don't.
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Marybeth
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Richelle,
Thank you for saying taking care of your family is your service right now. It is exactly how I have been feeling! I am hoping for many days of family time this summer. We have begun to list outings on the calendar so we will actually go on them instead of just talking! 
Marybeth
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Willa
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Elizabeth wrote:
Do you really make yourself fully present to your children most of the time? How do you do that? What distracts you from your children? |
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I have a really hard time managing this. I know it's important. I'm a loner though and very easily get caught up in my own projects, practicing "benign neglect"  My main distraction as Richelle said is PLANNING and researching for my kids' education -- how ironic!! I hardly ever do anything JUST for myself but I do escape by supposedly doing something for them, just like the workaholic dad who works "to provide for the wife and children!"
What has helped me a bit is keeping a mental picture of Our Blessed Mother as she gazes at her Child. I have pictures and icons around the house to give the image some substance. That becomes a visual shorthand for what I want my attitude to be-- one of contemplation, attentiveness, and caring love.... caritas.
I fall very short, but this keeps my priorities straight and helps me line up my day to day life with the ideal.
Also, I was just rereading
The Domestic Monastery which has been posted on CCM a few times and it helps me remember the significance of little moments participated in fully, even the humdrum matters like changing diapers or soothing owies.
I sure would like to do better at it though! ON the practical front, I've started walking for exercise in the house -- pace up, pace down, like a captain on a ship deck and have found that my teenage and pre-teen boys always seize that opportunity to talk to me, either following me or conversing as I go back and forth. They want to talk about sports, life goals, whatever, and that seems to be a comfortable way for them to do so
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Willa
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Take Up and Read
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Willa
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I was wondering if any of you had tried focusing on one particular child in a certain time period. I have 7 children, and I realize that the loudest and most obviously needy of them tend to get the most attention, while the ones in latent periods or the easy going or just plain modest ones sometimes are more "neglected" meaning that I'm not always as in tune with what they desire or need.
So I was just praying about it and it occured to me that I could try having a "unit study" for me on one child at a time, while of course still paying normal attention to the others.... but paying particular attention to that child's interests, temperament, hopes/fears etc.
Any feedback??
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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alicegunther
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A "unit study" on a particular child is a brilliant idea, Willa. I need to give some thought to how that would work here, but it makes so much sense. My six are all so distinct, and their interests vary so much, that something like that might be just the thing we need.
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Love, Alice
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Brew yourself a cup of tea, and come for a visit!
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Marybeth
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There were five children in my family growing up. My Dad would offer up his rosary one day for each child. He would always mix up the days and tell us at dinner who he prayed for that day. He always said his rosary on the train going to and from work. It always made us feel very special. I love the fact now as an adult that every Sat. his rosary was for my Mom. I didn't appreciate that fully as a child.
Marybeth
PS..he still does this everyday for each child but now includes spouses and grandchildren on that particular day also....
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Elizabeth
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WJFR wrote:
So I was just praying about it and it occured to me that I could try having a "unit study" for me on one child at a time, while of course still paying normal attention to the others.... but paying particular attention to that child's interests, temperament, hopes/fears etc.
Any feedback?? |
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It never ceases to amaze me how two women on opposties sides of the country can so often be on the exact same wavelength! I was thinking just this in terms of Jane's question on the Real Learning board. I was thinking that I couldn't really tell her how everyone's day went because I don't keep track of everyone all day every day. But, then I thought that I could really concentrate on one child at a time, observing and journalling as I go. One thing that has impressed me as I re-read the beginning of Story of a Soul was Zelie Martin's careful observations in writing. She recorded very subtle nuances about her child. I'd like to do that...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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Elizabeth wrote:
| One thing that has impressed me as I re-read the beginning of Story of a Soul was Zelie Martin's careful observations in writing. She recorded very subtle nuances about her child. I'd like to do that... |
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Yes, me too... I love her perceptiveness about her children and partiality for them as individuals.
Oh, I like that idea, Elizabeth!
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Spend all your time with your kids
