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Bridget
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| Posted: April 30 2005 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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I have jokingly called us unschoolers during times of morning sickness, post partum etc. I can see where the children have continued to learn in these situations, no question.
One of my concerns with unschooling may not be a valid one but here it is and I'm wondering what others think about this. If our children do not have to do structured work on subjects they don't enjoy, at least some of the time, will this impede their work ethic one day?
All jobs have parts that are not fun or interesting but people must do them anyway, especially to support their families. I'm sure we all know Godly men who hate their jobs but their self discipline carries them through so they can do their duty of supporting their family.
I certainly am not trying to argue for or against unschooling, just trying to find the balance for our family. Any thoughts on this?
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Genevieve
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| Posted: April 30 2005 at 10:06pm | IP Logged
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I'm a little tired but I'll take a stab at this.
I think you raised an excellent question and I think that an unschooling lifestyle can still prepare a child for future work ethic. Just as a father works at a job he doesn't like, so can a child. Examples that come to mind are
1) Child wants to buy something but you said he has to raise the money. So he mows a couple of lawns for several weeks.
2) Child wants to become a vet but doen't care for writing. But in order to become a vet, he needs to attend college and the college he want to attend requires to take SAT 2 Writing. What does he do? Take a writing course.
There are so many more examples. If someone, regardless of child, wants something bad enough, he/she will do whatever it takes to fulfil that dream. Maybe the more important question is are you giving him enough opportunities to work for his dream, no matter how big or small. Do you respect his dream? If he gets into the habit of not persuing dreams or is constantly not supported in his persuit of them, then he may not develop the will to undergo hardship in order to obtain sweetness.
Hope this makes sense and in no way am I implying you aren't letting your children persue dreams.
Genevieve
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Lissa
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| Posted: May 01 2005 at 6:58am | IP Logged
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Bridget, I think it's a very fair question. I'm glad you brought it up.
My perspective is similar to Genevieve's. I think a kid who is free to pursue her own interests is going to become a kid who things big, dreams big. Sooner or later the kid is going to want to do something that requires some kind of prerequisite work, and in order to achieve the goal, the kid will have to work through the preliminaries. Genevieve gives good examples of possible 'prerequisites' —having to work to earn money for something, having to take a course in order to reach a goal. Another that comes to mind is the practice necessary to master an instrument—I'm thinking of MacBeth's Libby and her amazing work ethic here!
I find that simply living and participating in a household (what I call 'the business of life') affords plenty of opportunities for developing a sense of responsibility and discipline. Thank you notes, housekeeping (I love Flylady's take on the work ethic—plug away steadily with zest and joy), gardening, tending pets, helping out with younger siblings, etc.
Recently Erin (6) was given a My Little Pony as a present. She loves it immensely—and so does Eileen (4). Together they decided that Eileen needed a pony too. United in purpose and expectant grins, they confronted me with the request. I told them Eileen would have to earn the money to buy the toy. Erin volunteered to help so it wouldn't take as long. We negotiated a fee.  "Ten big jobs." (Two-person jobs.) At first we discussed one big job a day, but after they had finished the first job, they returned to beg for another.  It took them four days to complete the ten tasks. Our coat closet is looking beeyootiful now!  After the last job was finished, we sat down together at the computer and ordered Eileen's pony. It should arrive next week—they are counting the days. LOL--when I saw how hard they were willing to work, I thought 'I should have asked for 15!'
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juliecinci
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| Posted: May 01 2005 at 8:10am | IP Logged
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One of the ways I evaluate these kinds of aphorisms (you won't like everything in life so you have to learn how to work hard through things you don't like now) is to look at how they play out in my adult life after growing up in the school system.
For instance, I have heard moms say that they are worried their kids won't get up in the morning for work unless they learn to get up in the morning now as part of school. I have noticed that after 16 years of getting up for school, I still don't rise early as an adult. I'm capable of getting up early, but I choose not to because there is no pressing need.
My two late sleepers set their alarms to get up for work or Shakespeare practice and manage to do so without having been trained to get up early for years.
Similarly, my kids do seem quite able to work very hard to beat levels on the computer, to earn money for iPods, to memorize lines for the plays they are in, to finish novellas, to study foreign languages... They may not like the act of memorizing lines (who does?) but they like being in plays so they do it.
As a kid, we had a maid. I never did housework. As an adult, it's amazing how much I've learned how to do what I never did as a kid. And I'm really committed to it and working hard too. Somehow not cleaning growing up didn't hurt me.
My daughter who really doesn't like math at all is studying with a tutor every week and is blasting through algebra I and II in preparation for college (her goal). No one is making her. This is her goal and her idea.
She chose to take Latin and started in the summer (!) because it interested her and worked on it every day even though technically she should have taken the summer off of "school." She got tired of Latin after a year and switched to French and is now adding Italian and NT Greek.
What I'm noticing is that my kids have learned a different lesson. They have learned how to discern what is worth putting time into and then dropping what isn't. They don't waste time working hard at things just so that for some future date they can work hard at what they don't like. They fully believe that they will work in areas that excite their imaginations! They work hard at things they are passionate about. And they have learned how to put in effort for the parts of their goals that require sheer muster... but they find ways that minimize the irksome nature of those tasks.
One last thought.
When I was in high school, I was not good at math. My sophomore year, I took geometry in summer school. I did that so that I wouldn't have to take it with other classes during the school year. It was a brilliant idea. I had it out of the way in six weeks.
This is how I see unschooling. If you are in control of your schedule and life, if your goals include some "duties" that aren't your cup of tea, you have the freedom to tailor make your life so that the obligations get met without sapping your energy to pursue what you love.
Julie
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Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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Bridget
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| Posted: May 01 2005 at 12:51pm | IP Logged
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OK, this all makes sense. I'm enjoying these detailed glimpses into how this works in your homes, thank you.
I wonder if my oldest, almost 12, would develope an interest enough to be motivated by it. He will cheerfully do his school work, chores, play sports, serve on the altar...but , so far, I haven't found anything that really motivates him.
I would like him to take some ownership in his schooling. When I ask him what he would like to learn or work on he can't think of anything. Umm, maybe I need to strew catalogues or science experiemnt books. He'll read anything he can get his hands on. Maybe that will spark something.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Willa
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| Posted: May 02 2005 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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Bridget, your almost 12yo sounds a lot like my 12yo. He'll cheerfully blast through almost any chore or assignment and is a good athlete who devours books, but isn't much of a ponderer or explorer.... I wonder how he would respond to just strewing and letting him go?
I had another question to tack on to yours. I've seen the truth of what Genevieve said in her post, both in my dh's life and that of my children and myself ... however, I have at least one kid who wouldn't do things if he felt he "couldn't." Basically, he would shut himself off from new things if they didn't come easily and right away. Yes, he did eventually learn the basic skills but it often further affected his self-esteem that he didn't learn certain things until several years after his siblings and peers.
To take Genevieve's example, he wouldn't mow lawns in order to earn money, because the machine and enterprise element would intimidate him; he'd just alter his goal, and become discouraged because he didn't measure up.
I learned over time to start him with "pre-readiness." If I wanted him to do X at a certain time, or thought he would want to, we'd start way back at non-intimidating A before he got to the stage where X would be expected. So since this takes pre-planning and isn't directly motivated by the kid, I figured it wasn't "unschooling". But can this kind of thing fit under the unschool umbrella, perhaps under the heading of parental intuition about the child or something? Or has someone found a more natural way to approach this?
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Unschooling and good work habits
